Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Skyblade12]

View attachment 148337

here ya go.

Um...

I don't see Sakurai ever developing a list to fill a nice neat grid. Nor has he every shown any sort of hesitancy to shove characters into hodgepodge locations (like the Echoes in Smash 4).

 

[StrangeMann]

Thank you! I'm at work and was like idk how I'm gunna do this lol.

But yea 7 spots left.

ALSO I get that this isn't the best way to predict the roster, but it just happens to line up with my idea that 10 newcomers seems about right. So I'm sticking with it for now, fully aware that the css could be any shape or size and that Sakuri doesn't pick characters based on how they'll fit on a screen.

Thanks for the visualization guys!
The current grid for the demo is 4x8
multiplying the dimensions by 3/2 in both dimensions gets a 6 by 12 roster and keeps the portraits the same proportions.
I think it's the most likely roster option but not certain, but regardless it's going to be interesting what goes in those 7 slots.

 

[papagenos]

Thank you! I'm at work and was like idk how I'm gunna do this lol.

But yea 7 spots left.

ALSO I get that this isn't the best way to predict the roster, but it just happens to line up with my idea that 10 newcomers seems about right. So I'm sticking with it for now, fully aware that the css could be any shape or size and that Sakuri doesn't pick characters based on how they'll fit on a screen.

Um...

I don't see Sakurai ever developing a list to fill a nice neat grid. Nor has he every shown any sort of hesitancy to shove characters into hodgepodge locations (like the Echoes in Smash 4).

Yeah I'm not saying this is definite the bottom could totally be staggered BUT we have more CSS knowledge than we've ever had before knowing the characters are numbered, that we'll start with the original 12 and unlock more, and the demo CSS follows this style pattern.

Could totally be different but its the best guess we've ever had at predicting the final CSS layout so im sticking to it for now.

 

[Wyoming]

Um...

I don't see Sakurai ever developing a list to fill a nice neat grid. Nor has he every shown any sort of hesitancy to shove characters into hodgepodge locations (like the Echoes in Smash 4).

To be fair, it was in Smash 4 (with Miis) and Brawl, no?

I don't think the way the CSS "limits" itself is an issue, but I can see them trying to make it as neat as possible.

 

[Koopaul]

The only part that doesn't make sense is the up B.

And before you bring up the Peanut Popgun, it can be replaced by the Gumball Popgun.

I agree that putting Dixie without using her hair is a crime, but there's not that much holding her back from being an Echo Fighter.

But it's her signature move. She's famous for it. It would be like Link not using a sword. If she does use her helicopter hair then she won't be considered an echo fighter for having a different move.

Upperdash Arm from Pit became Electroshock Arm for Dark Pit. So, yeah, B-Moves can change.

Electroshock arm is the exact same animation and functions similarly. The ponytail would be completely different from the jetpack.

Remember, Dr. Mario is not considered an echo fighter because he has a different special.

 

[osby]

Most people if not all who want a moveset dump are salty Zelda fans.

F-Zero fans aren't very common on Smash. I'd say Goroh is the leader but Black Shadow might have some true supporters.

Blood Falcon is more popular in games. Black Shadow is popular in anime though, which is not very warmly received by itself though.

 

[ErenJager]

When it comes to echo characters... it feels like a specific niche for a character to be considered for it.

For example just because Dry Bowser could make an echo fighter, doesn't mean that character will be one.

There's also the possibility of a character being so similar they get Alph'd or Koopa'd.

I like the idea of Daisy becoming an echo fighter because she did have her own fan base/ popularity.
She is fairly similar to Peach, but not exactly like her, so she's not an Alph.
She was for a long while an alt for Peach, which feels like a long time coming that the alt costume finally got fully fleshed out.

With that being said I also felt Blood Falcon and Dark Link costumes have been around a very long time, and thought they would at least get Alph'd.
However after thinking about it, Blood Falcon and Dark Link although similar, they are different from Falcon and Link, which would make them more fitting for an echo.
But, they lack the popularity and fan base which Daisy had, so I guess it makes sense they remain simple alts.

The one that surprises me the most is Alph not getting Echo'd for Smash Ultimate.
Sakurai even said he had an idea to give him Rock Pikmin in Smash 4.
I really thought that would happen this time around, and being very similar to Olimar with the exception of a rock pikmin.. that would be right in the echo niche.
Then again, the fan demand/ popularity factor.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Is there any reason we can't have Dixie as a (semi-)clone but not an Echo of Diddy?

 

[Nani?]

But in the smash discussion thread is where we talk about everythign related with smash, even leaks.
If you don't wanna look at leaks why are you even in this thread.

I was not aware this thread would contain leaks. I figured it would contain info on specificly what we got from E3 sense it's called the "E3 discussion." xD

Don't worry there already is a Waddle Dee amiibo for the Kirby series. It doesn't confirm anything.

Wuhhh. I thought it was a *leak.* xD

sorry about that, its just speculation for now anyway but yes its pretty solid evidence.

Oh. Speculation's a bit different. Thanks!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Here's another format of our current roster, but with everyone sorted by series, followed by their number value from the Super Smash Bros. website. Echo fighters have a magenta border, while the Mii Fighters take the last slot, due to their unique customization features.

This roster format is probably the cleanest one right now, but the organization can be adjusted as more characters get added.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It's still the same animation though.

Heck, it's basically the same move, but with a different name, look and knockback trajectory.

Exactly.

This is why being a Echo doesn't fit Dixie Kong at all.

There's NO reason to add Dixie without the Helicopter Spin. Might as well make Sonic a slow character if we went this route.

 

[SvartWolf]

still, echoes does have slight differences (in theory at least) while i agree that a semiclone would be way better, dixie stiil could have stuff like a super second jump akin to ness as a difference. (lets face it, her "second jump" is her most defining feature.)

 

[Nani?]

Sorry, papagenos. I thought it was a leak as in images and such. Not just a speculation/rumor. Sorry for being stupid.

 

[DJ3DS]

Are customs gone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQE9Y5ERvvs

Towards the end of this video, when asked who he's considering maining, Nate Bihldorff answers Palutena, as he wanted to in Wii U but couldn't then because she didn't have a set moveset he could decide on.

(Timestamp is 26:35)

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Are customs gone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQE9Y5ERvvs

Towards the end of this video, when asked who he's considering maining, Nate Bihldorff answers Palutena, as he wanted to in Wii U but couldn't then because she didn't have a set moveset he could decide on.

(Timestamp is 26:35)

I think they are. Palu's specials got a heavy rework it seems, though. Side B is explosive flame, counter and reflect got put together.

 

[Koopaul]

This could be why Mii Fighters will be online.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Actually I think we ARE getting Guidances back, Pit has a new line for his star KO right? Either they got his VA to record new lines or they decided to just rip that one line from Uprising

 

[papagenos]

Don't worry there already is a Waddle Dee amiibo for the Kirby series. It doesn't confirm anything.

well it confirms he'll be getting a 2nd amiibo. daisy just got confirmed for a 2nd amiibo: her smash amiibo.

its POSSIBLE waddle dee gets an amiibo for something else instead but I think it lifts the likelihood that hes in smash to like 98% he's now in the same boat as daisy where he had only one amiibo at that time but data for a future amiibo and will be getting a 2nd amiibo at some point.

I dont see any games on the foreseeable future where waddle dee would be getting an amiibo BESIDES smash bros.

Before getting daisy confirmed and waluigi deconfirmed there was a better arguement against this being the case but with waluigi having data for only one amiibo and daisy and waddle dee mysteriously both having extra amiibo data... its just pretty darn likely waddle dee is confirmed.

but hey still possible some random kirby game comes out and for some reason gives waddle dee a second amiibo, AND this phantom future kirby game was known about at the same time as Daisys future smash amiibo AND we still dont know about said phantom kirby game... yeah sorry im thinking its a smash amiibo.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Sorry, papagenos. I thought it was a leak as in images and such. Not just a speculation/rumor. Sorry for being stupid.

You're not stupid, some people just don't know how to talk to others with decent courtesy or empathy (not specifically referring to that person you were talking to). Carry on.

Anyways, just wanted to post a friendly reminder that Echo Characters not only reflect an EXTREMELY similar model, but the EXACT same moveset (barring some non-important, slight aesthetic changes, hitbox changes, and damage ratios). Dixie Kong does not have a tail, so she would be a semi-clone at best.

 

[Zeox]

well it confirms he'll be getting a 2nd amiibo. daisy just got confirmed for a 2nd amiibo: her smash amiibo.

its POSSIBLE waddle dee gets an amiibo for something else instead but I think it lifts the likelihood that hes in smash to like 98% he's now in the same boat as daisy where he had only one amiibo at that time but data for a future amiibo and will be getting a 2nd amiibo at some point.

I dont see any games on the foreseeable future where waddle dee would be getting an amiibo BESIDES smash bros.

Before getting daisy confirmed and waluigi deconfirmed there was a better arguement against this being the case but with waluigi having data for only one amiibo and daisy and waddle dee mysteriously both having extra amiibo data... its just pretty darn likely waddle dee is confirmed.

but hey still possible some random kirby game comes out and for some reason gives waddle dee a second amiibo, AND this phantom future kirby game was known about at the same time as Daisys future smash amiibo AND we still dont know about said phantom kirby game... yeah sorry im thinking its a smash amiibo.

There are 3 factors of why Bandana dee would be in Smash:
1. What you just said about the new Amiibo.
2. Dedede lack of Waddle dee in his movesets
3. His popularity in smash 4 times and the ballot, Sakurai probably is interesting in adding all time favorites to this smash.
This doesn't confirms him, but gives him a good chance, I don't even like or want Bandana Dee but I have to admit that it looks like we will have the little dude after all in smash.

 

[Iridium]

You know, it is very interesting to see players pick characters they like the most in a beta (basically) for SSBU, and see saltlords in the comment section on YouTube complain that they are not picking other characters, as if competition cannot exist, and only casual play. Dragon Smash's videos have this a lot, mostly towards ZeRo for some reason, and it makes me furious.

 

[GrownManJones]

When I brought up gameplay over roster discussion I was shot down hard by many members on this thread. I'm glad almost the entire direct talked about gameplay changes.

Sakurai in his own words said not to expect many newcomers and this entire board is still making unrealistic request. The "I want 10 newcomers" or people just like that are now worse than the melee people that only want improved movement.

That said this game strikes the perfect balance between casual and competitive and I finally think we have a game that will be just as hype as Melee but in a different way. It's unrealistic to ask for more casual stuff or more competitive stuff at this point.

Since this thread is about making outlandish request and patting each other on the back I think Dixie Kong will be a newcomer and Miles Tails will be her ecco fighter. Makes sense? Doenst matter. Glad this game is almost out. The invitational was great and I hope they let you waveland off a ledge in the final product.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

You're not stupid, some people just don't know how to talk to others with decent courtesy or empathy (not specifically referring to that person you were talking to). Carry on.

Anyways, just wanted to post a friendly reminder that Echo Characters not only reflect a similar model, but the EXACT same moveset (barring some slight non-important, slight aesthetic changes, hitbox changes, and damage ratios). Dixie Kong does not have a tail, so she would be a semi-clone at best.

Diddy's jab was changed to not use the tail though (albeit this could just be something similar to Captain Falcon's Gentleman).

did Diddy have any other attacks that utilize his tail?

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Diddy's jab was changed to not use the tail though (albeit this could just be something similar to Captain Falcon's Gentleman).

did Diddy have any other attacks that utilize his tail?

Was not aware of this. I didn't play Smash 4 much haha.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

6/13/2018
Today's Item
Launch Star
If you touch the star, your fighter will be launched at high speed. Clever placement can lead to an easy KO!

Fun fact: I actually wanted this to be an item back in the Pre-SSB4 days.

I'll bring back 1 year old item suggestion to this thread.

Launch Star

When appearing, they will float a little bit above the ground, while slightly tilted to the air. These are large enough for letting a player fit inside them.

A Launch Star can be activated by pressing A near it, much like Warp Star. When used, the player will be spinned briefly inside it, and launch powerfully away to the air at high speed, much like in Galaxy.

These Launch Stars however, give a five-second time of fast-moving, unlimited flight which can be directed very freely. (Think like Sonic's Final Smash expect you can fly around in any diagonal direction as well)
When flying, your player glows and seems to emit stardust around him. He also leaves a glowing path similar to shooting star: this looks like the translucent, glowing paths from Galaxy.

You can press A for a Star Spin which lets you deal decent damage and high knockback. Star Spin uses the quick starry energy seen from Galaxy when Mario used it, and technically is similar to Wing Ability's Gust Roll from Kirby Air Ride.

After five seconds the speed drops severely down and your character loses it's translucent, stardusty glow.This renders your character into helpless state. Be sure to find safe ground to descend on at this point or you'll plummet surely on your doom.

To prevent Launch Star's overpower, occasionally Launch Stars tend to break when you are just launching from them, making them crash on the ground comically. These broken Launch Stars then turn into Sling Stars, which lets your character get slinged off spinning, which can also be used as an attack (albeit weak.). This is similar to Barrel Cannon.

A Sling Star stays on the screen for 8 seconds.

I'd say it functions more or less like the Sling Star-suggestion I've had here, but I'm glad nonetheless.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I think they are. Palu's specials got a heavy rework it seems, though. Side B is explosive flame, counter and reflect got put together.

Until we know for certain, I wouldn't rule out custom specials just yet. Even if Palutena's specials have been reworked, they could still receive custom variants that alter their damage output, hitbox sizes, and/or animation lengths.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Are customs gone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQE9Y5ERvvs

Towards the end of this video, when asked who he's considering maining, Nate Bihldorff answers Palutena, as he wanted to in Wii U but couldn't then because she didn't have a set moveset he could decide on.

(Timestamp is 26:35)

this exists though

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai even said he had an idea to give him Rock Pikmin in Smash 4.

People keep saying this, but this is not true.
Sakurai said there was the idea to implement Rock Pikmin into Olimar's moveset.
Sakurai said there was the idea to separate Alph from Olimar like the other three costume-clones.

Sakurai never said there was the idea to separate Alph from Olimar and implement Rock Pikmin into Alph's moveset specifically.
That was and forever will be fan misinterpretation.

this exists though

Looks like he's Inhaling while an Ice Shot by the Ice Climbers is heading his way.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

this exists though

That's from Ice Climber's neutral B.

You can even slightly see a little bit of the second mini-iceberg on the corner.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Honestly I REALLY hope Bandana Dee at least appears in SOME capacity, he was completely absent in 4 though him not making a cameo in Dedede's final smash makes me think he's a character. Riki's still in Shulk's Chain Attack AND an Assist Trophy after all

 

[TheZoologist]

this exists though

I think that might just be the Ice Climber's Ice Shot, but I could be mistaken! He did have an Ice Breath custom for Inhale, so here's hoping custom moves make it back in!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

this exists though

It's suggested that the ice effects are coming from Ice Climbers' Ice Shot, but after seeing gameplay footage for them, I'm not entirely sure if that's truly the case.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

People keep saying this, but this is not true.
Sakurai said there was the idea to implement Rock Pikmin into Olimar's moveset.
Sakurai said there was the idea to separate Alph from Olimar like the other three costume-clones.

Sakurai never said there was the idea to separate Alph from Olimar and implement Rock Pikmin into Alph's moveset specifically.
That was and forever will be fan misinterpretation.


Looks like he's Inhaling while an Ice Shot by the Ice Climbers is heading his way.

nope, kirby's regular inhale doesn't have the extra sparkles or particle effects. His wii u ice breath custom had those same effects actually

here's his wii u ice breath btw

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

Diddy's jab was changed to not use the tail though (albeit this could just be something similar to Captain Falcon's Gentleman).

did Diddy have any other attacks that utilize his tail?

Just did some research. The Smash Wiki says:

-Neutral infinite has received a finisher,[1] an upward tail swipe.
-Diddy Kong slaps forward twice, turns around to quickly kick the foe, and proceeds to repeatedly whip them with his tail. The attack finishes with an upward tail flick.

I also booted up Smash 4 3DS and tested it. Diddy still uses his tail for his jab, it's just not infinite.

 

[papagenos]

Honestly I REALLY hope Bandana Dee at least appears in SOME capacity, he was completely absent in 4 though him not making a cameo in Dedede's final smash makes me think he's a character. Riki's still in Shulk's Chain Attack AND an Assist Trophy after all

after this new amiibo info about daisy and waddle dee, the fact hes not part of king dedede at all now, AND he was a highly requested ballot character... i cant imagine he isnt in.

 

[ErenJager]

I feel like Echo Characters is a double edged sword for some of the popular requested characters.
It's good for a characters chances to become playable, but only halfheartedly.

For some characters whose inclusion likely wouldn't happen without the Echo category it's good, so I feel like Chrom supporters have something to hold onto for hope.

But I feel like the Echo category hurts certain characters chances of becoming truly their own characters because it would be much easier and a simple addition to just make them an echo.

With Sakurai saying not to expect many newcomers and a lot of work went into bringing everyone back, I feel like the development time may result in characters that could be their own, getting reduced to echo just for the sake of inclusion.

In particular characters such as Impa and Dixie could be at risk of this.

They have the fan base/ popularity to get noticed.
They have been compared to Sheik and Diddy.
The potential exists.
Although they could be made their own characters, they could also be regulated to the echo category very easily.

I'm not really a Dixie supporter so I can't speak much to the topic, but I imagine her playing like Diddy with some sort of hair recovery and maybe a couple attacks involving her hair.

I am an Impa supporter, so I would be a little upset that she wouldn't get the love she got in Hyrule Warriors.
But I would love to see her playable in some capacity.
It seems as though Sakurai was trying to represent generations of Zelda through the characters, I don't know what generations are left for Impa to represent for Zelda, but I felt Hyrule Warriors popularity garnered some recognition.
Impa maybe one of the best choices to represent the Hyrule Warriors Saga.

But then again I want Linkle who would be the quintessential Hyrule Warriors representation (if not Impa) among the LoZ characters.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

after this new amiibo info about daisy and waddle dee, the fact hes not part of king dedede at all now, AND he was a highly requested ballot character... i cant imagine he isnt in.

No. All we know from the ballot is that Final Fantasy was in VERY high demand, Bayonetta and veterans. I'm tired of seeing the ballot get used when we don't have concrete info on it other than what I just mentioned

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

It's suggested that the ice effects are coming from Ice Climbers' Ice Shot, but after seeing gameplay footage for them, I'm not entirely sure if that's truly the case.

You can't see kirby's inhale effects though, the ice climbers do share the same sparkle ice effect though

 

[papagenos]

No. All we know from the ballot is that Final Fantasy was in VERY high demand, Bayonetta and veterans. I'm tired of seeing the ballot get used when we don't have concrete info on it other than what I just mentioned

alright ill give you that, ballot data is not known, however ill switch it to hes very very popular among smash fans in the west and japan.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

View attachment 148342
nope, kirby's regular inhale doesn't have the extra sparkles or particle effects. His wii u ice breath custom had those same effects actually

View attachment 148343
here's his wii u ice breath btw

Based on those two images, it seems that there's still some hope that custom specials may be returning. Part of me also hopes that equipment comes back, but we would have the option to disable them if we only want to use the custom specials.