Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ErenJager]

Shadow is the 2nd most popular Sonic character

Or maybe Shadow's AT got replaced by Knuckles because Knuckle's is favoured.
Knuckles had the mii fighter costume after the ballot... shadow didn't... just sayin.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I wonder if they're going to do away with fighting a character to unlock it, they did say that they were going to streamline the process, and while it's always been a neat touch it's probably going to become redundant pretty quickly when you have to do it ~60 times.

 

[Cosmic77]

I'm sorry to say, but I took Mipha off my prediction. The game is not focused on BOTW as I thought, and thus a new Zelda character doesn't need to be from BOTW at all. Plus with evho characters I'm more expecting one of those for the series.

The onllllly redemming factor for the Champions is the lack of their appearance so far, and the fact that other popular characters have returned as assists (Midna). But skull kid and tingle are still missing so the champions still have serious competition. Readlly don't see any of them as likely now.



Very interesting! Hm...

ALSO can we stop with talking about the Zero Suit Samus model. It's super demeaning to focus solely on that change of her character. Like....seriously it's been multiple pages, I don't care how you think she looks and what your preferences are. It's super rude to any women here or anyone who cares about that. If anything I'd rather talk about how ****ing ridiculous it she still has ****ing high heels on.

Fair enough. I have my doubts about Zelda getting an Echo character since we technically have three semi-clones now, but I suppose it's still possible.

Regardless, I'm not giving up on them just yet. Feels like the non-BotW character designs were implemented because Ganondorf wasn't in BotW and because Sakurai couldn't picture BotW Zelda fighting in Smash. I'm not gonna bother reading too much into why Link and Sheik are the only ones with BotW designs.

The Champions also still have relevancy over characters like Skull Kid, Tingle, and Impa, and the game they debuted in was a massive success. I'll keep my expectations in check, but the lack of BotW Assist Trophies and items at E3 has me very suspicious. I can't shake off this feeling that there's still more to come from that game in Smash, so I'll continue to support until an official disconfirmation.

 

[Pakky]

Or maybe Shadow's AT got replaced by Knuckles because Knuckle's is favoured.
Knuckles had the mii fighter costume after the ballot... shadow didn't... just sayin.

That's good point.

 

[papagenos]

So going by this, technically wouldn't all other characters who aren't like Dee or Daisy be deconfirmed? Like since for example since Toad didn't have future amiibo data, would it be safe to conclude that CT wouldn't be playable?

hmmm yeah logically thats true, id love for someone here who can datamine to look into this further as i didnt see him mention toad but yeah if you follow this logic than this would deconfirm toad, or anyone else who has one amiibo out and we can check if they have this "future amiibo" style data or not. characters like geno/krool/ridley who dont have amiibo to check cant be deconfirmed.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I don't think we'll be getting too many more newcomers. I see, at most, five more newcomers and three more echoes. That'd give us seven full newcomers, three new echoes, and ten in total.

I 100% agree, assuming you meant 2 more echoes, 3 including Daisy (that actually adds up to 10).

If my math is correct that also adds up to 71 selectable roster icons, to a even 12x6 square with a random spot. This allows for all original 12 to be lined up at the top which is nice. (Although DLC will **** it all up if we get any lol).

 

[Roberk]

It's not relevant to why Halo is successful, but it does counter the point that Banjo got shafted simply because Master Chief is bigger and more popular.

After all, if they only cared about Halo, why revive an IP that hasn't seen a single game in over 20 years?

There's more to Banjo not getting anything that just "he's not as big as Master Chief", especially considering the fact that they're made by two different companies (343 Industries for Halo, Rare for Banjo/Battletoads)

But Banjo is still being shafted. I'm not saying BK got shafted because of Master Cheif/Halo, but that they are being shafted and have been for the past 2 decades. (Nuts and Bolts doesn't count) Right now, BK is in a rut. In my OP, I was comparing BK's situation to Master Cheif's. Master Cheif is in a significantly better position than BK, that would help MC's chances at being the promoted mascot. Banjo Kazooie's connection to Microsoft is simply from a studio purchase, Master Cheif and Halo are almost synonymous with Microsoft/Xbox. Master Cheif means much more to Microsoft than Banjo Kazooie, and that is something that should be considered for speculation. Just because a dormant franchise like BK can get out of its rut doesn't mean it's home free, it still has a way to go to compete with the Microsoft mascot.

 

[ErenJager]

Question: Why are so many people convinced Geno is one of the most likely newcomers now? Over Waluigi? OVER TOAD? I mean I know we got Ridley but he's a long running recurring character that's owned by Nintendo, he's been in almost every single Metroid game AND cameoed in every single Smash. Geno is a one off character from a 20 year old spinoff game with no direct sequel, nobody outside of Smash speculation and SMRPG fans would even onow who he is. I think the Mii costume is perfect and will likely return, and I think that's the best case scenario. I'm not trying to generate salt but the idea that he's suddenly the Mario frontrunner in a game with limited newcomers is... weird.

Maybe we haven't got a third party newcomer yet.
Maybe Sakurai has stated he's wanted to make him playable in the past.
Maybe Square being involved helps his chances.
Maybe a post ballot Mii costume suggests he was a popularly requested character.

Maybe people think he'll be added because of those reasons, not because of Mario representation.

 

[PeridotGX]

Looks like Yoshi's Island Brawl is back. It was somewhat revealed earlier but now we have a clear picture.

 

[Jetsurge]

Or maybe Shadow's AT got replaced by Knuckles because Knuckle's is favoured.
Knuckles had the mii fighter costume after the ballot... shadow didn't... just sayin.

They brought him back from Brawl and other Brawl assist trophies that we in 4 are still there. I see no reason to cut his assist besides making him an echo character.

 

[Pakky]

Oh man I kinda want story mode now. Ridely having a rivalry with Ganondorf would be sick.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Looks like Yoshi's Island Brawl is back. It was somewhat revealed earlier but now we have a clear picture.

Seriously calling the return of every stage.

Which means...

It's official Sakurai, between Ridley and Poke Floats, best smash game. You've out done yourself.

 

[Deleted member]

We still haven't seen Fountain of Dreams. I'm becoming concerned

 

[Opossum]

I 100% agree, assuming you meant 2 more echoes, 3 including Daisy (that actually adds up to 10).

If my math is correct that also adds up to 71 selectable roster icons, to a even 12x6 square with a random spot. This allows for all original 12 to be lined up at the top which is nice. (Although DLC with **** it all up if we get any lol).

Yeah, I was including Daisy as one of the three. The "old" Echoes were just Lucina and Dark Pit.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

You are included in Smash Ultimate. But as an Echo fighter.

Which character are you based off of?

Game and Watch. Why? Because he's my main, and hitting people with chairs is one of my favorite past-times.

 

[Zeox]

Question, was Ridley's theme from his trailer the remix used in brawl or a new remix?

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Or maybe Shadow's AT got replaced by Knuckles because Knuckle's is favoured.
Knuckles had the mii fighter costume after the ballot... shadow didn't... just sayin.

Or maybe because that dumb Ugandan Knuckles meme made him popular.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Or maybe because that dumb Ugandan Knuckles meme made him popular.

Not really.

He also has the meme going for him.

Can't believe I found a way to use this emote.

 

[ErenJager]

Inklings and Ridley being the fighters of the day for the past two days, the thing says 66 fighters when Ridley is 65, the Vergeben leak, hope, delusion. Take your pick

Couldn't they technically use Daisy today then?

More over couldn't they go through the entire roster for the next 60 some odd days?

In the very least maybe we'll get a newcomer once every character has been featured as the character of the day.

 

[Pakky]

Yeyeyeyeye SO cute!

 

[PeridotGX]

Question, was Ridley's theme from his trailer the remix used in brawl or a new remix?

I think it was an old remix.

 

[Jetsurge]

Question, was Ridley's theme from his trailer the remix used in brawl or a new remix?

Brawl

 

[Zeox]

Brawl

I think it was an old remix.

Sad, then I guess they would reuse some remixes from old smash games, like Porky's theme for New Pork city.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Ridley's trailer was the Brawl theme, his 20 second video on the site has a new remix though. Kinda odd they didn't use that one then

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

They brought him back from Brawl and other Brawl assist trophies that we in 4 are still there. I see no reason to cut his assist besides making him an echo character.

I don't think making Shadow an echo fighter would make any sense. He has his own unique attacks, such as Chaos Spear.

 

[Skyblade12]

Am I the only one who thinks that Echo Fighters are not set at this point?

Lucina and Dark Pit were last minute additions to Smash 4.

Characters like Dark Samus or Shadow may be reserved from being released as ATs...yet. To go on a list of characters who can be quickly turned into Echo Fighters if time allows later.

It doesn't really seem likely that they'd sink a bunch of dev time into the barebones characters. Especially since some playable characters (like Bowser Jr.) only barely made it to playable last time.

I'm sure they have a few more Echoes set up. But I'm wondering if more may be waiting for three months or so to make sure they'll have time to work on the bigger features.

 

[StrangeMann]

I 100% agree, assuming you meant 2 more echoes, 3 including Daisy (that actually adds up to 10).

If my math is correct that also adds up to 71 selectable roster icons, to a even 12x6 square with a random spot. This allows for all original 12 to be lined up at the top which is nice. (Although DLC will **** it all up if we get any lol).

Completely agree on a 6x12 arrangement giving 71 selectable roster icons and one random button, would perfectly scale from demo CSS.
Real question is, are miis divided and are echoes divided on the CSS?

 

[Zeox]

Ridley's trailer was the Brawl theme, his 20 second video on the site has a new remix though. Kinda odd they didn't use that one then

Wait what....

OH, THAT SOUNDS GOOD!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I don't think making Shadow an echo fighter would make any sense. He has his own unique attacks, such as Chaos Spear.

Lucina has her own fighting style with skills that Marth doesn't have, like Aether, and she's still an Echo.

Yet many clones get more unique moves, like Doc getting a stomp or Ganondorf using his sword on smash attacks.

 

[Pakky]

Topical...

 

[Cosmic77]

Am I the only one who thinks that Echo Fighters are not set at this point?

Lucina and Dark Pit were last minute additions to Smash 4.

Characters like Dark Samus or Shadow may be reserved from being released as ATs...yet. To go on a list of characters who can be quickly turned into Echo Fighters if time allows later.

It doesn't really seem likely that they'd sink a bunch of dev time into the barebones characters. Especially since some playable characters (like Bowser Jr.) only barely made it to playable last time.

I'm sure they have a few more Echoes set up. But I'm wondering if more may be waiting for three months or so to make sure they'll have time to work on the bigger features.

I think people are exaggerating how much of an emphasis we'll get on Echo Fighters. Seeing Shadow, Impa, or Dixie as a clone would actually upset quite a few people, and I'm sure Sakurai is well aware of how much the fanbase hates clone characters.

Will we get more? Maybe one or two, but I doubt it'll be something Sakurai planned for.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Completely agree on a 6x12 arrangement giving 71 selectable roster icons and one random button, would perfectly scale from demo CSS.
Real question is, are miis divided and are echoes divided on the CSS?

Basing it off that thing in the direct that showed you unlocking characters, and the fact that echoes are counted sperately on the website (not number but are separate character icons) while mii fighter and Pokemon are one icon despite being numbered differently, I'm assuming Miis share one spot like they always did, and echoes are not alt costumes and have their own spot.

BTW I've decided to give up on Alph being an echo (it's only been one day lol). I realized in Olimars video there's a part where Alph is by himself, and since it's showcasing Olimar I think it's safe to say he's a costume alt (same for Meta Ridley for those who thought he might be an echo).

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Lucina has her own fighting style with skills that Marth doesn't have, like Aether, and she's still an Echo.

Yet many clones get more unique moves, like Doc getting a stomp or Ganondorf using his sword on smash attacks.

Dr. Mario and Ganondorf do not count as echo fighters though. Lucina's overall moveset is pretty much the same as Marth's, except for the damage output for her attacks.

 

[New_Dumal]

I think that for the first time ever, Sakurai decided to make the game not from his vision, but following what the fanbase wants.Showing Ridley was the first step. Also the removal of magnetic hands (ledge), more movement and the nerf in the defensive options. I also saw a effort from tree house members and invitational commentators that this game is faster and more ofensive. Sakurai himself found a way to certify he is nerfing Bayo saying that he saw some "bugs", etc.

That said, I don't expect any weird newcomer. Simon can still be one of them,but I finally believe that K.Rool and Dixie (as echo figther) have a great shot. Geno too. Isaac.
Long requested characters that looks like make a impact in the ballot.

This game tries to pass that "last one/definitive" edition vibe. It's the obvious move to finally add what was lacking. Adventure mode will probably return, but not something major because they don't have enough time.

I think they will release with 70 and maybe go to 75 with DLC. Also thinks the game will launch without revealing two newcomers. Maybe they decide to add the subspace-emissary mode as the DLC instead of fighters.

 

[Jubileus57]

yes if im undestanding it correctly some amiibo had placeholders for "future" amiibos with the same name/character (in the way mario/wedding mario/smash mario all function as the same amiibo) and smash amiibos that had multiple amiibos worked this way.

daisy had that same kind of data and waluig did not so this poster assumed she may have a future smash amiibo planned and waluigi did not....well here we are with daisy in and waluigi deconfirmed thats a pretty crazy prediction based on some actual evidence.

what other characters amiibo data was similar to daisy where the character only had one amiibo out but data for future amiibo?

waddle dee.

Well, I guess this will make Chandeelure 's day ^^'. And mine, too. I love Bandana Waddle Dee :D

EDIT: Man this thread moves fast the topic has already shifted.

 

[StrangeMann]

Basing it off that thing in the direct that showed you unlocking characters, and the fact that echoes are counted sperately on the website (not number but are separate character icons) while mii fighter and Pokemon are one icon despite being numbered differently, I'm assuming Miis share one spot like they always did, and echoes are not alt costumes and have their own spot.

BTW I've decided to give up on Alph being an echo (it's only been one day lol). I realized in Olimars video there's a part where Alph is by himself, and since it's showcasing Olimar I think it's safe to say he's a costume alt (same for Meta Ridley for those who thought he might be an echo).

assuming there's only 5 spots left, how likely is it that 1-2 are echoes on a 71 spot css?
I would still say belmont and chorus men are pretty likely as 2 newcomers at this point, followed by rayman and a dk rep IMO.

 

[Skyblade12]

I think people are exaggerating how much of an emphasis we'll get on Echo Fighters. Seeing Shadow, Impa, or Dixie as a clone would actually upset quite a few people, and I'm sure Sakurai is well aware of how much the fanbase hates clone characters.

Will we get more? Maybe one or two, but I doubt it'll be something Sakurai planned for.

The thing is, I don't think it makes sense to give them their own classification if you are only going to use it for just one additional character.

In fact, I think the term "Echo Fighter" was developed so that they DIDN'T have to spend time on the characters.

Look at what they've done with Roy and Luigi over the years. Slowly making them more and more distinct to "declone" them. Even Dr. Mario got new moves in this game (like the stomp).

Echo Fighter is the term they developed so that they could just say "yep, these guys are clones. We're not going to bother developing them further. Live with it."

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Dr. Mario and Ganondorf do not count as echo fighters though. Lucina's overall moveset is pretty much the same as Marth's, except for the damage output for her attacks.

My point is that, if they didn't bother decloning Lucina even though she has the potential to not be an Echo Fighter, what makes Shadow guaranteed to not be an Echo?

Just because Shadow can "do more" doesn't mean he's automatically not gonna be an Echo Fighter.

 

[Zeox]

I think that for the first time ever, Sakurai decided to make the game not from his vision, but following what the fanbase wants.Showing Ridley was the first step. Also the removal of magnetic hands (ledge), more movement and the nerf in the defensive options. I also saw a effort from tree house members and invitational commentators that this game is faster and more ofensive. Sakurai himself found a way to certify he is nerfing Bayo saying that he saw some "bugs", etc.

That said, I don't expect any weird newcomer. Simon can still be one of them,but I finally believe that K.Rool and Dixie (as echo figther) have a great shot. Geno too. Isaac.
Long requested characters that looks like make a impact in the ballot.

This game tries to pass that "last one/definitive" edition vibe. It's the obvious move to finally add what was lacking. Adventure mode will probably return, but not something major because they don't have enough time.

I think they will release with 70 and maybe go to 75 with DLC. Also thinks the game will launch without revealing two newcomers. Maybe they decide to add the subspace-emissary mode as the DLC instead of fighters.

I also believe (or want to believe) that franchises that had been in smash for very long without almost any new reps could get them.
F-Zero, Kirby, DK...

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

My point is that, if they didn't bother decloning Lucina even though she has the potential to not be an Echo Fighter, what makes Shadow guaranteed to not be an Echo?

Just because Shadow can "do more" doesn't mean he's automatically not gonna be an Echo Fighter.

All that I'm saying is that if Shadow was ever considered to be a fighter, he has more to work with than just being a mere Sonic copycat. I've already mentioned Chaos Spear, but there's also Chaos Control and Chaos Blast to keep in mind.