Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CannonStreak]

Less than 5 minutes left. See you all after the Direct, or after the boards recover from crashing.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Good luck everyone! May we speak on the other side of Info, life and death.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Make sure to check out smashbros.com after the presentation, I have a feeling they're gonna overhaul it big-time

 

[DakotaBonez]

WE ARE ABOUT TO
A S C E N D
BOIZ

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Exaggeration much? Unless a lifetime has been redefined to the time between Smash titles.

Oh, don't be that guy. This is the only time we're getting this Smash 5.

 

[T-Hell]

SOURCEGAMING HAS SAID ITS STARTING WITH SMASH.

 

[Icedragonadam]

Come on Tales of character!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Here's the official Youtube stream. BTW, try to keep your hype in check and avoid spamming. A little bit is fine, due to the extreme hype generated, but don't overdo it.

In addition, no unreasonable bragging about characters being disconfirmed. We want people to enjoy this. Let's just say there's many I'd be fine with not making it in, but that doesn't mean bragging here would do any good. It just serves to create turmoil. So please be reasonable and respectful.

 

[papagenos]

I cant believe we still havent even seen this game yet!!!! the wait is finally over I'M SO HYPED!!!

 

[Hinata]

I can feel it.

I can feel Judgement Day coming.

 

[Polan]

CRASHBOARDS INCOMING

 

[Zeox]

START ALREADY GODDAMMIT!!

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Last message before Crashboards.

See ya in space, cowboy.

 

[TheWozny]

Godspeed, lads.

 

[PeridotGX]

Good luck, I hope I don't have to add your favorite characters to the Graveyard thread.

 

[Radical Bones]

Good luck everyone! Love you all!

 

[Slavic]

So it's been discussed (more than) a few times about characters that we want to see revamped, similar to how Bowser was. This had me thinking about literally all the Smash Bros. characters, and examining how each one was interpreted in Smash. So I've gone ahead and, like, done my own ranking for each character in Smash and how well I think they were transitioned into Smash Bros. (I probably missed someone lmao). This is all only my opinions, of course, so please do attack me because I am ready.

Spoiler: The Characters

5 Stars​

Characters in this top tier are those who fully utilize their abilities, carry their personality, and manage to capture the gameplay of their home game.

1) Marth
Marth is my absolute favorite moveset in Smash Bros. to date. I think his set is the perfect interpretation of Fire Emblem into Smash Bros., capturing weapon effectiveness, skills, the turn-based combat, and making his set generally a 'strategy' based set.

2) Captain Falcon
Captain Falcon is another brilliant interpretation of a character, especially one who does so little combat. Captain Falcon feels like a racer and a bounty hunter while you play him, and his gameplay feels like the chaotic racing of F-Zero.

3) Ness
(Early characters are kinda stealing the show thus far) Mother's drawing from Lovecraftian sources lend itself to the graphics and gameplays, with a heavy focus on abstract psychic attacks, which is very difficult to portray in a fighting game. I don't know how better such attacks can be displayed, and Ness' set features a lot of fun references to the gameplay of EB. Ness might not use all his own PSI, but honestly it's for the better to represent EarthBound.

4) Falco
Falco got ahead of Fox, and that's because Smash really differentiated the two with a few changes and Falco's personality shining through. Kicking his reflector is stylish, his blaster has its obvious differences, and in general Falco feels like he benefits from the transition to Smash even better than Fox. Speaking of...

5) Fox
Fox is yet another early series creation from a non-combat role. Fox has one of the most iconic Smash sets, which in turn influenced him in later Star Fox games. Fox plays like an anthropomorphic Arwing, and that's hella impressive.

6) Snake
Sure, Snake can't have his guns (though his P:M sleep dart is all I want), but Smash did a wonderful job at making him feel like a completely different genre of character with a fun, amusing trap and projectile based set. Despite his alterations to fit into Smash, Snake still feels immediately like Snake, and is high up on my favorite transitions.

7) Bayonetta
My knowledge of Bayonetta is very limited, but Bayo's interpretation in Smash is great. Her set feels like an action game, her attacks are suitably over-the-top extravagant, and her set is just so stylish in general.

8) Ryu
Ryu manages to feel like a fighting game character even in a fighting game full of fighters. A lot of care was taken to make Ryu feel right, and I think it paid off well (though I've never played SF so),

9) Little Mac
Little Mac is about as perfect a boxer's set could be while still bringing in Punch Out's influence. There's almost nothing to complain about Little Mac's set from this perspective honestly.

10) Ivysaur
Ivysaur is my favorite Pokemon moveset in terms of implementation. Maybe it's a weird choice, but between the powder bursts and the hilariously literal bullet seed, Ivysaur plays even better than I would hope for this Pokemon and is just a lot of fun.

11) Link
Link's moveset encompasses a great interpretation of Link's staple weaponry, tied in with good swordplay that has evolved with the series thus far. Of course, with BotW around, I hope we'll see this revamp, despite the fact Link's set is highly effective as a portrayal.

12) Charizard
Charizard's set is probably more representative than Ivysaur's of his character, but loses out for a bit of personality that I love about Ivysaur's. Charizard also benefits from a more complete moveset thanks to no switching mechanic, and his hyper aggressive physical sweeping playstyle feels very... Charizard to me. (Even with Rock Smash of all moves)

13) Mr. Game & Watch
Mr. Game & Watch's set is the kind that I don't normally enjoy, a collection of references on different inputs, but here it works very well. Perhaps because he was the first, or because he could do nothing else, Mr. Game & Watch has a stylish and unique set that I really enjoy.

4 Stars​

This tier is for sets that I actively think portray the character or their series well, though miss out on some potential from their personality or abilities.

14) Lucina
Ignoring the fact that Lucina uses her father's sword and is said to fight like her father, she is one of the more successful choices for a clone character after the Hero King. She plays like a simpler Marth, and I think it's a fitting comparison for Awakening after the previous entries in FE (probably not intentional but oh well).

15) Pikachu
Pikachu's fast, obnoxious playstyle is perfect for the electric rodent, and my main gripes with Pikachu is inclusions of weird move choices like Skull Bash this far into the franchise's lifespan.

16) Pichu
Pichu's another clone, and while I think the moveset itself is trash Pichu is perfectly represented by it. There's not a lot else I would say would make Pichu feel like Pichu.

17) Zelda
Zelda's skillset circa Melee was very limited, and the use of Link's magic is another one of those brilliant movesetting strokes we don't see as much anymore. The biggest issue with Zelda's set from a characterization aspect would be the weird inclusion of the Phantom over Sheik's transformation. Zelda / Link's abilities did just gain a new upgrade, so maybe, just maybe...

18) Mega Man
Mega Man feels ripped right out of his games, and yet he plays like a fighter. However, he starts to dip into a problem I have with Smash 4 characters, which is their serving as a dumping ground for as many references as possible, which isn't my personal cup of tea.

19) Corrin
Ignoring opinions surrounding Corrin's inclusion, they are well transitioned into Smash. It's great to see another big aspect of FE brought in with the Dragonstone transformation, and it never feels horribly clunky with the transformations. The water detailing is a nice touch as well.

20) Cloud
My knowledge of Final Fantasy is about as robust as my knowledge of Bayonetta, so everything here comes with a grain of salt advised. Cloud feels like a JRPG character, so I'm sure he plays like he should.

21) Luigi
Luigi's come a long way since being a clone, and honestly despite a lack of almost any of his famous abilities he feels like Mario's awkward overshadowed brother. Would I love a Mansion based set? Of course, but Luigi's current set does him justice.

22) Mario
Let's get all the Mario Bros. up in here! Mario brings a great range of his iconic abilities for his Specials (plus F.L.U.D.D.), and he plays as one would expect the mascot character of Nintendo to, packing a lot of detail and abilities into an accessible character.

23) Dr. Mario
I mean all the Mario Bros. up in here. Dr. Mario's character is... just Mario but a doctor. His Melee set carried him well, and now represents Mario's past in more ways than one. Not really many other ways to interpret Dr. Mario, I suppose.

24) Lucario
Lucario does a good job with his monk-like set focusing on martial artistry combined with his aura reading abilities. I think he misses the mark a bit with his abilities, but overall he still leaves a positive impression on me.

25) Pit
I personally preferred Pit's interpretation in Brawl, but his Smash 4 set is pretty good to. Part of the appeal for the first KI rep in Brawl was his usage of the items from Kid Icarus, which gave what I felt a very representative set. Smash 4's a bit more of a mess with the items, but Uprising has a lot of weapons, at least his is better than some...

26) Sonic
Sonic plays in Smash mostly like he plays in Sonic games, there's nothing really to complain about except for the inclusion of two separate spin attacks.

27) Shulk
Shulk's a set I super want to love given my dedication to his series, and they manage to take a fair amount from Xenoblade, like directional damage, but the Monado Arts are so weirdly portrayed in Smash... Monado Buster is, like, Shulk's iconic attack in Xenoblade. Vision is a great choice for a counter, however, I just think the Monado Arts should be reimplemented in the set.

28) King Dedede
King Dedede's set captures the goofy king with a good amount of love. Big, bumbling attacks pulled right from the game, batting his own minions around, Dedede's set is pretty good.

29) Kirby
Kirby's copy is something I've always been torn on, as it's cool to copy a move from the enemy but isn't always useful and not necessarily how the Kirby games have played out. I do, however, like the different copy abilities placed throughout the set.

30) Ice Climbers
There's very little you can ask from Ice Climbers. Smash delivers all that you could ask for outside of summoning the monsters from the game, and I prefer this teamwork-based set. Belay is one of the cooler concepts for a Smash attack in my eyes still.

31) Diddy Kong
Diddy Kong plays up the agile, more technical Kong compared to DK, and though his banana peel is a little weird and goofy, it's become one of my favorite attacks in terms of gameplay.

32) Sheik
Sheik did literally nothing pre-Melee except teleport and play music. She does one of those things, and then fills the rest of her set with a lot of general ninja stuff. It's a good interpretation of the Sheikah, but she is another I would want a revamp for.

33) Villager
Like Mega Man, Villager suffers from the issues of cramming a bunch of references into a character that Smash suffers from, but without feeling like they were pulled right out of Animal Crossing. However, the goofy nature of the attacks is charming and feels like how combat would work in the Animal Crossing world, so I give points here.

34) Olimar
Pikmin combat is so odd to transition into a fighting game, and between the few changes Olimar's gone through the past few games I feel he's been competently handled, though the micromanagement of Pikmin isn't nearly as prevalent.

35) Rosalina
I wasn't sure what kind of moves Rosalina would have prior to SSB4, but they really do pull from as much of Mario Galaxy as they could. Some moves are weird, others are cool like her Gravitational Pull, and the puppet master, though a bit weird, is a cool way to show her relationship with the lumas.

3 Stars​

These are sets where the characters start to lose the feel or essence they had in the games for one reason or another, but still carry some of their signatures with them.

36) Bowser
Bowser's improved with his revamp in SSB4, but aside from being a big brute and breathing fire, Bowser still does very little he actually does in the Mario games.

37) Samus
Like Fox, Samus has a pretty iconic Smash moveset, but unlike Fox Metroid doesn't feel that well represented by Samus' set. Many of her staple weapons and abilities aren't utilized, like her different beams, bombs, shinespark, etc.

38) Meta Knight
This is a tough one, as Meta Knight feels like he should in Smash, a blisteringly fast aerial swordsman, but he uses so few of his abilities from the game it's a bit of a waste.

39) Yoshi
Yoshi hits all the checkboxes that should be required for his inclusion, egg throwing, egg laying, a flutter jump, egg... rolling? Unfortunately the pieces are brought a bit oddly, though like Bowser SSB4 Yoshi is quite a bit improved.

40) Ike
Ike and the following character both have fine enough movesets, but that's mostly because they piggyback off of Marth rather than bringing in much more from their home games. Aether is cool because it introduces the concept of skills from FE as moves not that we'd see that again.

41) Roy
Roy's in the same boat as Ike, slight changes to Marth's set. Maybe it's fitting for Fire Emblem as a franchise...?

42) Peach
On one hand, Peach has a great set of moves that represent a lot of Mario, like her sorting equipment, her turnip pull, and her parasol, but she also has weird moves for characterization like the Peach Bomber and using Toad as a body shield.

43) Squirtle
Unlike Ivysaur, Squirtle has a bit more personality in the Pokemon media, and unfortunately I feel like Squirtle just plays like any water turtle could.

44) Zero Suit Samus
Zero Suit Samus is weird because as a character I preferred her in Brawl, since she's supposed to be Samus' weaker version. On top of that, ZSS feels like she could be from any sci-fi series, and doesn't feel particularly Metroid to me.

45) Duck Hunt
These next few are down here for all the same reasons. They do represent their characters and their games, but it's by shoving in as many different ideas and references as possible. Duck Hunt's at the top of these because I think its most acceptable for a weird character like this, and I feel like Duck Hunt's gameplay comes through just a little bit.

46) PAC-MAN
PAC-MAN has some cool moves, but honestly I'm not a big fan of the character and the fact that his moves are all weird references to Pac-Man and other Namco games is a big turn off for me.

47) Wii Fit Trainer
I am perfectly fine with WFT as a character choice, but their moveset is just... a bit of a mess. Super Hoops as a recovery? I feel like her concepts are just too all over the place for my liking.

48) Palutena
Palutena's moveset is certainly divisive in game, but I think just giving her a dozen abilities from KI is kind of lazy representation and in general made her moveset less interesting to me, like the few above did,

49) Bowser Jr.
Bowser Jr.'s moveset is great... for the Koopalings. I'd honestly prefer Jr. to be separated with his own set cause it really doesn't fit him that well.

2 Stars​

These are characters that take very little advantage of their source material, but still have some semblance of the character to them.

51) Donkey Kong
Yeah, Donkey Kong's a big brute, but he has a lot of projectiles in his series. Barrels, coconuts, it feels like literally any gorilla could fill this role until he pulls the bongos out.

52) Young Link
In theory, Young Link and the next entry should be as good as the other clones have been so far, but honestly Young Link was already a differentiated character from regular Link, and the only advantage that was taken was fire on his arrows and a wall jump.

53) Toon Link
Toon Link doesn't even have magic arrows. WW alone has tons of cool items that aren't used in Smash at all. However, should Link get a revamp, Toon Link's position will shoot up since he'll fill a Dr. Mario-esque role.

54) R.O.B.
Outside of one move, this could be a moveset for literally any robot. References like Mr. G&W had should have been used here as well honestly.

55) Lucas
Like the other Links, Lucas has so much to separate him from Ness and Mother 3 from EB, so it's a shame to only see minor differences in the set on this one.

56) Mewtwo
I actually love playing as Mewtwo, but Confusion? Disable? Teleport? all moves on a legendary Pokemon?? The choices here baffle me for representing Mewtwo's power. Shadow Ball is a good choice, ofc.

57) Greninja
It's hard to blame them since this was before Greninja took off in a major way, but Greninja's mostly just a ninja with some water flavor imo. Not much personality or Pokemon really shines through, and I hope we see a bit of a revamp if he comes back.

58) Robin
I may be alone in this but why did anyone want to see weapon durability represented in Smash Bros.?? Especially since they mostly did away with it in Fates, it seems like such a weird choice for a fighting game of all the FE aspects to carry over.

59) Mii Fighters
The Mii Fighters are, by nature, generic. But honestly? Rather than giving them a selection of generic brawling / shooting / sword moves, a collection of references to Mii-based games would have been far better for represented what people did with their Miis.

1 Star​

These are characters that are absolutely confounding in how they were implemented.

60) Ganondorf
There's nothing to say here outside of that Sakurai thought Ganondorf should be a clone of a racing bounty hunter. Bonus points for being an enjoyable moveset, at least.

61) Jigglypuff
Rollout? Rest that explodes people?? Jigglypuff's moveset is insane in terms of choices, even if I love her, and I'll never understand what they were thinking.

62) Dark Pit
Dark Pit doesn't even use the weapon in his official Smash Bros. art in his actual moveset. With all the weapons and abilities in KI:U, why would they just pick the same ones that Pit used? (obviously I know why, but still)

63) Wario
Wario's one of my absolute favorite characters to play at in the Wario games, but instead of going the big, strong meathead route, Smash went the gross route. And I hate it.

 

[Inawordyes]

Should I even attempt to stay current in these threads?

Spoiler

The answer is yes, FEEL THE HYPE

 

[papagenos]

I'm abandoning ship to watch the direct! Enjoy the ride everybody!!!

 

[Polan]

goddamn stream quality

 

[WaddleMatt]

See you guys after the stream! I will be ticking my bingo card.

 

[FantasyBlade]

Here we go!

 

[Iridium]

Spoiler: Megadeth

Spoiler: Metallica

This will be how I feel if I am disappointed. Well, I want to see Greninja back, so yeah.

 

[SlickWylde]

https://discord.gg/UW96Ru If you guys wanna live chat

 

[CrowGoesCaw]

I hope a lot of people get their characters. Even if Ridley doesn't, I'll be happy for the rest of you who do. <3

I'll be even happy if I get Ridley too though. Woo Ridley!

 

[Yoshisaurus Rex]

Enjoy the show everyone! See you all on the other side!

 

[Bowserlick]

And here we go...

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

BRACE FOR IMPACT!!!!

 

[Inawordyes]

IT'S STARTING, WOOO!

 

[Questionmark222]

The final countdown has officially begun. A new era of Smash Bros history is right upon us, and it is only a matter of mere seconds now. The hype train has never been faster, and it is now leading us to the culmination of 3 months of speculation surrounded with quasi-radio silence. My final message to the community before the big reveal will be: hype responsibly, but ENJOY THE SHOW!

Wow, sounded really corny near the end, didn't it? Anyways, I'm out.

 

[FantasticMr.StarPit]

LETS GO!! HYPE!!!

 

[PLATINUM7]

Nintendo going ham already

 

[TylerBlackRunIt]

Xenoblade 2 DLC? inb4 Rex/Pyra & Mythra get announce for smash

 

[Reila]

Xenoblade 2 truly disgraces the name of the original game.

 

[DakotaBonez]

Ughhh this isn't smash GTFO Reggie

 

[PLATINUM7]

Not a FE fan but happy to see it revealed. Does look great.

 

[Hinata]

Didn't someone leak Killer Queen Black?

 

[PLATINUM7]

Didn't someone leak Killer Queen Black?

Yes
and Overcooked 2
and Fortnite
and other titles.

 

[Zeox]

THERE HE IS

 

[Reila]

Sakurai looks like a skeleton.