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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Tree Gelbman

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I question how much you really game outside of Nintendo if you haven't stopped to think what their characters fighting other companies famous characters would be like.

I don't know. It just seems to me a lot of the third party ''BUT MAH NINTENDO" fear? Comes from not getting outside of Nintendo's first party games that much.
 

TheFritzle

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I hope we get more worthwhile unlockables this time around. With the roster most likely having around 70 characters pre DLC, I think we honestly need to relegate at least half of them to unlockables as to not overwhelm people right off the bat. Even if they don't, I really did like the idea of unlockable costumes or color swaps. I always wanted more costumes for characters, and I think that would be an awesome reward. Clearing all-star mode with a character gives you a special costume, same with classic mode or possible challenges.
 

Arcadenik

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I question how much you really game outside of Nintendo if you haven't stopped to think what their characters fighting other companies famous characters would be like.

I don't know. It just seems to me a lot of the third party ''BUT MAH NINTENDO" fear? Comes from not getting outside of Nintendo's first party games that much.
Because Nintendo is the main focus of Smash?
 

Tree Gelbman

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Because Nintendo is the main focus of Smash?
Nintendo didn't get to it's status alone. No one does.

Street Fighter has been with them since practically the beginning of it's craze. They support them to this day.

Bayonetta is practically their new second party baby.

Final Fantasy used to be synonymous with Nintendo. Spin offs have stayed prominent.

Sonic? He's their once greatest foe turned into their biggest ally now.

Metal Gear Solid goes back to the NES. It was around in the Gamecube and DS era.

Pac Man is pretty much the god father of everyone including Mario.

Mega Man has been with Nintendo forever.

Like it or not?

Every. Single. Third. Party. Franchise. Has. Done. Something. For. Nintendo.

And is therefore given part of Nintendo's history, which is the true focus of Smash Brothers.

 
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Arcadenik

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Yeah, but third Parties are also a big part of Nintendo history too.
Yeah, as long as they actually have history with Nintendo. But Nintendo characters have a closer history with Nintendo. I prefer that third-party characters have history as close as possible with Nintendo that they are practically Smash cousins (Nintendo characters would be Smash brothers). That's why I supported Mega Man and Pac-Man for SSB4. That's why I am supporting Simon Belmont for Smash Switch.
 
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Yeah, but third Parties are also a big part of Nintendo history too.
Mega Man is a prime example. Only about 10 out of over 100 titles have Never been playable on a Nintendo Console, and most of those are obscure titles anyways
 

TMNTSSB4

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You could just stop by the Chrom read and maybe read the OP. Just saying. Pretty much everything you asked is answered there. And what? Robin's portion of Awakening's plot (the second Plegia/Grima arc) is the single most-often pointed to portion of the game when it comes to poor writing. General consensus pretty much everywhere is that the Chrom/Gangrel arc was the strongest of the Awakening arcs while the Robin/Validar/Grima stuff was plagued with dumb plot points.


Leaving aside Smash entirely (since I've literally never said Chrom was likely), this is absolutely wrong, actually. Chrom's character arc centers largely around the theme of fatherhood, which in itself is unique among lords. Sure, Eliwood and Hector would eventually become fathers, but not until after their journeys concluded. And Sigurd was a father but it happened far too late in his life for it to impact his character to a significant degree.

But for Chrom himself, the idea is a central pillar of his character. In chapter six he details the history between Ylisse and Plegia to Robin, explaining how his father, the previous exalt, led a crusade against Plegia to preemptively stomp out the Grimleal. The war ravaged both countries, and Ylisse was so low on troops that Chrom's father conscripted non-combatant farmers to essentially act as cannon fodder while he commanded from on high. The war ended with his death, leavin Emmeryn to rule and face the mess her father left behind, while acting as a sort of surrogate mother to Chrom. And considering the war coincided with Chrom's younger, formative years, it had a profound impact on him.

The atrocities his father committed inform many aspects of his character. Emmeryn instilled in him his good-hearted nature, but Chrom took it upon himself to protect his people. He formed the Shepherds out of what was essentially a group of his friends. He fought alongside them instead of commanding them, station as Prince be damned. And he cares for each and every last one of them as family, as shown in his Summer Scramble support with Stahl and several of Vaike's supports, for example. Even with Donnel's recruitment, he doesn't conscript Donnel the way his father would have: he inspires him, and Donnel volunteers after proving himself capable. In this regard, he is a father to his men, and a sharp contrast to his own father. And Chrom's major trait, being fiercely protective of those he loves, is a classically parental trait, emblematic of a father.

But then come the events of chapters nine and ten, and Chrom (spoiler alert) must cope with the loss of Emmeryn herself. After Robin leads the Group Pep Talk™ to get him back on his feet, he leads the charge against Gangrel and ends the war between Ylisse and Plegia, leading to an era of peace that lasted...two years. But in those two years between wars, something important happened: Lucina was born. As acting Exalt, Chrom is no longer just the father of his country, but a father in the literal sense. And now that the Valmese Empire is encroaching on Ylissean soil, Chrom has no choice but to fight back and secure a future for his daughter.

A lot of people say the Valm arc was kinda filler-y, but while it has its issues (namely a lot of telling over showing and handling Say'ri and Yen'fay haphazardly), it furthers Chrom's other arc, which was becoming a ruler worthy of his people. Chrom states during the initial visit to Regna Ferox that he was never much for diplomacy. Emmeryn's death, however, had an impact on him, and when it comes time to fight Walhart, he offers Walhart a shot at peace, extending the branch as Emmeryn would have. It doesn't work on Walhart, but Chrom is actually a tad remiss over it, even apologizing to Emm under his breath because diplomacy failed. Walhart further discusses this in his paralogue, setting apart the path of kings and conquerors.

Chrom's biggest revelation comes when he finds out that "Marth" is his daughter, Lucina, from a future where he fell in battle. His reaction is especially telling. "You deserved better from me than one sword and a world of troubles." This draws a distinct parallel between him and his late father, as his father left him and Emmeryn with the exact same things: Falchion for Chrom, and a world of troubles for Emmeryn. With his resolve further bolstered they're ready to take on Plegia, and when Robin finds out about his own heritage, Chrom tells him he's "his own man before he's anyone's son," further drawing parallels between Robin's paternal situation and his own. After all, Robin is just as much a part of Chrom's family as anyone else among the Shepherds, if not more so. Their bonds give him strength.

Chrom is far from a bland rehash of the series's previous lords. His tale, instead, is about fatherhood and its many forms. In a journey of self-discovery and his coming-for-age, Chrom becomes a father to his men, a father to his country, and a father to his own daughter, and, in the process, becomes the total antithesis of his own warmonger father, becoming a man and ruler of his own design. And in this, he became my favorite character in the franchise.

Just because a character arc isn't tossed in your face at any given moment, doesn't mean one doesn't exist. :)
Totally “unrelated”, but what makes his story even better is how he can’t have much of a story without :4robinm::4robinf:and:4lucina:since they all help each other improve/develope ones story (and all have a connection to Grima)
 

?????????????

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Does "second party" even exist?

Because it sounds very dumb.
My understanding is that it’s a character from a company that makes games exclusively for a 1st party company, like characters from GAMEFREAK or Monolith Soft.

:4greninja:
 
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Opossum

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Does "second party" even exist?

Because it sounds very dumb.
It's more of a colloquialism than anything. Basically internet video game discussion jargon for "partially owned but not fully owned," which describes cases like Pokémon (whose rights are split between Nintendo, GameFreak, and Creatures Inc) and The Legendary Starfy (co-owned by TOSE). This is different from non-in-house first party franchises, like Kirby or Fire Emblem. Nintendo owns the full rights to these franchises, but they're made by separate developers (in these cases, HAL and Intelligent Systems).
 

TMNTSSB4

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Does "second party" even exist?

Because it sounds very dumb.
It does, Xenoblade and somewhat Bayonetta are some of them

Nintendo didn't get to it's status alone. No one does.

Street Fighter has been with them since practically the beginning of it's craze. They support them to this day.

Bayonetta is practically their new second party baby.

Final Fantasy used to be synonymous with Nintendo. Spin offs have stayed prominent.

Sonic? He's their once greatest foe turned into their biggest ally now.

Metal Gear Solid goes back to the NES. It was around in the Gamecube and DS era.

Pac Man is pretty much the god father of everyone including Mario.

Mega Man has been with Nintendo forever.

Like it or not?

Every. Single. Third. Party. Franchise. Has. Done. Something. For. Nintendo.

And is there for given part of Nintendo's history, which is the true focus of Smash Brothers.

Screw it, Sonic and Bayonetta might as well be honorary Nintendo characters. Bayo since her future’s most likely gonna be Nintendo exclusive, while Sonic has more of a personal connection to Nintendo (especially Mario) than any other 3rd party (he might have more of a Nintendo connection than some of the Nintendo characters themselves...but I wouldn’t want to go that far)
 
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Troykv

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Mega Man is a prime example. Only about 10 out of over 100 titles have Never been playable on a Nintendo Console, and most of those are obscure titles anyways
Oh yeah... right, I forgot about the X Collections, I was still thinking the X5-X8 are non-Nintendo.
 
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Oh yeah... right, I forgot about the X Collections, I was still thinking the X5-X8 are non-Nintendo.
The only main Mega Man game still not playable (as of the new X collection) on a Nintendo console is Legends 2, Then a few Spinoffs, Such as Miss Adventures of Tron Bonn, the rest are all odd Ports for random consoles)
 

TMNTSSB4

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I used Wikipedia and second party does not exist officially, it's just a thing made by fans.

:drflip:
Second-party developer
Second-party developer is a colloquial term often used by gaming enthusiasts and media to describe game studios who take development contracts from platform holders and produce games exclusive to that platform. These studios may have exclusive publishing agreements (or other business relationships) with the platform holder, but maintain independence so upon completion or termination of their contracts are able to continue developing games. Examples are Insomniac Games (originally a 2nd party for Sony), Bungie (originally a 2nd party for Microsoft) and Rareware (originally a 2nd party for Nintendo).

I also used Wikipedia
 

Troykv

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The only main Mega Man game still not playable (as of the new X collection) on a Nintendo console is Legends 2, Then a few Spinoffs, Such as Miss Adventures of Tron Bonn, the rest are all odd Ports for random consoles)
Megaman Legends 2 was.. decent?

Misadventures looks like something very niche to appear in recent years unless a random collection of Legends Games appears.
 

Opossum

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Okay, so here's a full rundown on "party" ownership.

Look at amiibo.
On the underside of a Mario amiibo, you see © Nintendo. Mario is first party, as well as in-house.
On the underside of a Marth amiibo, you see © Nintendo/Intelligent Systems. This means it is first party, but not in-house, as there's only one copyright symbol. This is where Fire Emblem, EarthBound, Kirby, and Xenoblade fall.
On the underside of a Pikachu amiibo, you see © Nintendo, © GameFreak/Creatures, Inc. THIS is what people call second party, as there are multiple companies with different copyrights, unlike in the case above.
On the underside of a Bayonetta amiibo, you see © SEGA. Nintendo partially owns her sequel design, but Bayonetta is a third party franchise that Nintendo doesn't own.
 
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Megaman Legends 2 was.. decent?

Misadventures looks like something very niche to appear in recent years unless a random collection of Legends Games appears.
They both (and legends 1) are currently available on PS3/Vita PSN under PS1 classics.
and Legends 2 is fantastic BTW.
 

Originality

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I hope we get more worthwhile unlockables this time around. With the roster most likely having around 70 characters pre DLC, I think we honestly need to relegate at least half of them to unlockables as to not overwhelm people right off the bat. Even if they don't, I really did like the idea of unlockable costumes or color swaps. I always wanted more costumes for characters, and I think that would be an awesome reward. Clearing all-star mode with a character gives you a special costume, same with classic mode or possible challenges.
I understand that unlockables can be super satisfying, but I really don't want too many to be locked, if any at all. Recently I went over to a friend's house who'd just got a wii and brawl off someone. We'd all played it before, we knew everyone in it, but we couldn't just jump in and have fun because all of our favorite characters were locked.
I'm all for having unlockable skins and whatever else we can think to lock because it does give a sense of purpose and satisfaction to the single player modes, but I would much rather characters be open from the beginning.
 

Chandeelure

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Second-party developer
Second-party developer is a colloquial term often used by gaming enthusiasts and media to describe game studios who take development contracts from platform holders and produce games exclusive to that platform. These studios may have exclusive publishing agreements (or other business relationships) with the platform holder, but maintain independence so upon completion or termination of their contracts are able to continue developing games. Examples are Insomniac Games (originally a 2nd party for Sony), Bungie (originally a 2nd party for Microsoft) and Rareware (originally a 2nd party for Nintendo).

I also used Wikipedia
Yeah, it still does not exist.

I used Wikipedia in spanish, it says literally the same thing you posted, but in a second paragraph it says it's not official.
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desarrollador_de_segunda

I even found this tweet made by Insomniac Games (a company that is in the paragraph you posted) and they say it does not exist.


I don't even know why I asked tbh, I was like 90% sure it did not exist lol.
 

?????????????

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I’m actually more in favor of less unlockables. I like being able to jump in with the freedom of being able to play as who I want.
 

Nekoo

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Yeah, it still does not exist.

I used Wikipedia in spanish, it says literally the same thing you posted, but in a second paragraph it says it's not official.
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desarrollador_de_segunda

I even found this tweet made by Insomniac Games (a company that is in the paragraph you posted) and they say it does not exist.


I don't even know why I asked tbh, I was like 90% sure it did not exist lol.
But...
Even insomniac is telling you the definition in that same post...
 

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Yeah, it still does not exist.

I used Wikipedia in spanish, it says literally the same thing you posted, but in a second paragraph it says it's not official.
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desarrollador_de_segunda

I even found this tweet made by Insomniac Games (a company that is in the paragraph you posted) and they say it does not exist.


I don't even know why I asked tbh, I was like 90% sure it did not exist lol.
It depends on what you mean by "exists." It's a thing people say that is recognized as having a specific meaning, so in that regard it "exists" despite not being rooted in the same area as first and third party. It's a colloquialism. Language is neat like that.
 

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Regarding Geno and Mallow, would they be under the same category as Pikachu or as Bayonetta?
Bayonetta. Square Enix owns all of the original characters in Super Mario RPG.
 

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This sudden talk of second party reminds me of when people were vehemently arguing that "fourth party" wasn't a valid term and said that second party was valid in the same breath. Slang exists for a reason.

:yeahboi:
 
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?????????????

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Here’s a random topic; what examples can you think of where the definitive character of a series is NOT the main character?

Like...I think Mortal Kombat was NOT initially pushing Scorpion as the “main character,” but he’s the face now. I also think of Morrigan and Darkstalkers, and Sans and Undertale.
 

Originality

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I always assumed all the party terms were made up, didn't know there was anything official to any of them.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Here’s a random topic; what examples can you think of where the definitive character of a series is NOT the main character?

Like...I think Mortal Kombat was NOT initially pushing Scorpion as the “main character,” but he’s the face now. I also think of Morrigan and Darkstalkers, and Sans and Undertale.
Morrigan is actually one of the two main "heroes" of the story as is. She never really wasn't one. Dimitri was still important even later on. Morrigan is probably more comparable to Luigi, another main hero. Except she gained way more popularity, but Succubi can sometimes do that. Sex appeal helps.

Another example is Fulgore from Killer Instinct. Jago(and B. Orchid) are the main characters, but Fulgore is the face of the series, not taking too long to gain traction. A popular design helps too.

And an edit thanks to what Opo said; Slime from Dragon Quest.
 

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Here’s a random topic; what examples can you think of where the definitive character of a series is NOT the main character?

Like...I think Mortal Kombat was NOT initially pushing Scorpion as the “main character,” but he’s the face now. I also think of Morrigan and Darkstalkers, and Sans and Undertale.
Pikachu. The trainers are the main characters, but as the mascot, Pikachu is the definitive Pokémon character.
 

Originality

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Here’s a random topic; what examples can you think of where the definitive character of a series is NOT the main character?

Like...I think Mortal Kombat was NOT initially pushing Scorpion as the “main character,” but he’s the face now. I also think of Morrigan and Darkstalkers, and Sans and Undertale.
The only ones I can think of are Geno and Elma. Maybe the Squid Sisters and Splatoon?

Edit: Oh a good one, Handsome Jack and Borderlands
 
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