Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[BluePikmin11]

So I have several questions regarding Sakurai's process of finding unique traits for a newcomer, Sakurai had said this:

Kotaku: My first question is, what is the process like for deciding which characters in a Smash Bros. game to include and which to cut from game to game?

Sakurai: First of all, in regard to cutting characters: at this point there's nothing I can say in any official position regarding that process. But let's go ahead and talk a little bit more about how we decided what characters to have.

Kotaku: Okay.

Sakurai: The first thing is to take an idea. For example, imagine a game and characters within that game. Take a character such as the villager in Animal Crossing. The next process is think about that character's role in their game and then the structure of the game we're making. How do those work together with each other? What kind of interesting things can you do within the structure of the game? And then if you were to actually implement that character, how would the end result be, how it works with other elements of the game?

1. "What kind of interesting things can you do within the structure of the game?" Is it referring to the character's game or Smash, because I think he already knows Smash's game structure. It makes me think that the second last and last question are basically repeating the same thing.

2. Should not "What kind of interesting things can you do within the structure of the game? And then if you were to actually implement that character, how would the end result be, how it works with other elements of the game?” be the next questions asked, with "How do those work together with each other?" being the last question. Finding the character's role with the next step being "How do those work together with each other?" seems way too early.

Comparing the character's role in gameplay to Smash gameplay structure as the second step seems kinda off to me. Would it not be less about how they work together, but whether or not the role they have is distinct? What questions are even asked to build up the connection of character role to Smash structure?

 

[Garteam]

Honestly, I expect the third parties to be sorted by year of release. It makes a lot of sense to me when I look at it that way. Potential newcomers are in parentheses.

(Bomberman)(Simon Belmont)(Rayman)(Sora)(Shantae)(Steve?)(Shovel Knight)

It keeps everyone from the same companies together except Bayonetta, who's kinda a special case regardless with Nintendo. (Shantae for GBC was published by Capcom at first, but now WayForward does the publishing themselves.)

I generally like this idea of chronology for 3rd parties, but it doesn't always keep the companies together. Heihachi and Pac-Man would be seperated, for example. Likewise, Leon Kennedy would be behind Cloud rather than Mega Man and Ryu.

 

[Pacack]

I generally like this idea of chronology for 3rd parties, but it doesn't always keep the companies together. Heihachi and Pac-Man would be seperated, for example. Likewise, Leon Kennedy would be behind Cloud rather than Mega Man and Ryu.

Heihachi's a weird one because, at the time of their inceptions, Namco and Bandai were still separate companies. That said, I personally wouldn't find it too bizarre to see the two halfs of the company separated on the CSS.

And I'm sorry if this comes across as rude, because this question comes from legitimate ignornce; who's Leon and how likely is he as a contender? I've heard Black Mage brought up before (and his separation from Cloud were he in would be an issue), but I'm not familiar with Leon. Or, did I misread and Leon's not a FF character? Sorry, I genuinely don't know.

Regardless, if the characters in the final game end up being any combination of the above, we'd have no problem, I imagine. Oh, and Crash and Spyro would be next to each other as well if they were both in, iirc. That's worth noting.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Honestly, I expect the third parties to be sorted by year of release. It makes a lot of sense to me when I look at it that way. Potential newcomers are in parentheses.

(Bomberman)(Simon Belmont)(Rayman)(Sora)(Shantae)(Steve?)(Shovel Knight)

It keeps everyone from the same companies together except Bayonetta, who's kinda a special case regardless with Nintendo. (Shantae for GBC was published by Capcom at first, but now WayForward does the publishing themselves.)

I only see Shantae or Shovel Knight , Rayman, maybe Simon, and Crash joining Smash out of those predicted 3rd parties. Konami doesn’t need a 3rd rep (among lots of things until they get their **** together...especially when it relates to Metal Gear), NO STEVE EVER (Etika would kill himself), Shovel Knight after Shantae/Shantae after Shovel Knight, and Sora...oh god do I have a petty salty grudge against that guy

 

[grits0808]

It's been a long time since I've posted on here, but I was looking at the imgur photos. Manta ray photo i think alludes to Rayman.

 

[Pacack]

I only see Shantae or Shovel Knight , Rayman, maybe Simon, and Crash joining Smash out of those predicted 3rd parties. Konami doesn’t need a 3rd rep (among lots of things until they get their **** together...especially when it relates to Metal Gear), NO STEVE EVER (Etika would kill himself), Shovel Knight after Shantae/Shantae after Shovel Knight, and Sora...oh god do I have a petty salty grudge against that guy

I am not implying that all of those characters are getting in. I am merely listing them as possibilities.

Steve being written off is something I think foolish, considering how popular his game is with young audiences. Having Steve in Smash could attract a new audience, which is exactly what a third party inclusion is meant to do. (Also, I don't particularly care about what Etika's reaction would be. It doesn't affect the character's chances at all.)

Sora, whether you have a grudge against him or not, is probably the most requested remaining third party for Smash. The only thing holding him back is Disney.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Is there any legitimacy to these vague image leaks? I’m so confused.

 

[Pacack]

Is there any legitimacy to these vague image leaks? I’m so confused.

Not really, no. It's just people starved for info, I think.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Not really, no. It's just people starved for info, I think.

I figured as much. Jesus. E3 can’t get here fast enough.

Here’s a question for everyone, when do you think the game will release in 2018?

 

[Pakky]

I figured as much. Jesus. E3 can’t get here fast enough.

Here’s a question for everyone, when do you think the game will release in 2018?

Yep probably November or super early December.

 

[Kotor]

So.. Um... Came across this today. I guess I'll also give an in-depth story too. Whilst I do live outside of America I was lurking on the American version of Amazon. Don't ask me why I guess I was checking to see if there was anything out of place(That and I'm very impatient for information for the game and decided to check some sites out) And it just so happens there is.

Smash is releasing around this year around December 31st apparently according to this image. I put some red boxes around the text I found. Sorry If it may seem clickbaity but I couldn't figure out a better way to make it stand out. I absolutely swear I did not edit this whatsoever except me clipping the two images together and putting the red boxes around the information I'm sharing. I am warning all of you do not trust this completely. This could be another mistake Amazon has made with Smash Bros. It could just be like the Tower of Smash leak that was going around before Smash Bros Wii U released., Hell even I'm skeptical of this myself. I am not sure if this information has already been shared but I am posting this anyways. You can check if you want for proof. May want to do it now before Amazon fixes it.
Link to the page: https://www.amazon.com/Super-Smash-Bros-Nintendo-Switch/dp/B01N5OKGLH

Placeholder. Placeholder. When only the year is announced, Amazon defaults to December 31st. Amazon will update the date when a date is given.

How many games were actually released on December 31st?

 

[Garteam]

Heihachi's a weird one because, at the time of their inceptions, Namco and Bandai were still separate companies. That said, I personally wouldn't find it too bizarre to see the two halfs of the company separated on the CSS.

And I'm sorry if this comes across as rude, because this question comes from legitimate ignornce; who's Leon and how likely is he as a contender? I've heard Black Mage brought up before (and his separation from Cloud were he in would be an issue), but I'm not familiar with Leon. Or, did I misread and Leon's not a FF character? Sorry, I genuinely don't know.

Regardless, if the characters in the final game end up being any combination of the above, we'd have no problem, I imagine. Oh, and Crash and Spyro would be next to each other as well if they were both in, iirc. That's worth noting.

Leon is the main character of Resident Evil 2, 4, and 6 and he's seen as Resident Evil's main protagonist alongside Jill and Chris. If Capcom were to get another character on the roster, it would be between him and Monster Hunter.

 

[RandomAce]

Just wanna add that Daisy has 60 pages in her support thread on this very website. I either missed Waluigi's thread, it had less than 10 pages, or the thread is dead. But yeah no this website doesn't count for anything.

Ridley was the only thread with more that had a recent post. Ridley has reached 65 pages, only 5 more than Daisy. But yeah totally no one wants her.
"Unless I personally don't want the character."

I'm done now. If you are gonna be unjustifiably biased at least say so.

I noticed how smaller the support threads for this Smash game are compared to the support threads for Smash 4.

In Smash 4 the Robin, Shulk, and Palutena support threads reach into hundreds of pages. In Smash 5 however, the largest support thread is Ridley, who only has 65, which is abysmal compared to last game’s, not to mention is a character who has been shot down before by the man himself (Good job for still having hope you guys).

This is even smaller when you compare that to the character threads of characters like Spring Man, Rex/Pyra, and Decidueye who only have like 7 pages despite being considered likley for this game.

This Smash game has the shortest and driest speculation period of any Smash game (not including 64).

 

[Pazzo.]

Pazzo's List of Stuff to Do to wait for Smash

1. Get to Rank X (Splatoon 2)
2. Read Dante
3. Make more "important images" like my Smash leak on pg. 1209
4. Buy some salt

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I get why people would want Yarn Yoshi as an alt. But the one thing that's keeping him from becoming one is his body proportions. Trust me, I have both a normal Yoshi amiibo and a Yarn Yoshi amiibo standing on my desk as I type

Y'know what I'd be down with?

Yarn Yoshi clone.

 

[slambros]

Well, there seems to be a little fervor in the thread right now, so it might be best to cool it with a quick survey, yeah?

What do you plan on doing to make the two-week road to E3 less agonizing?

I don't necessarily have anything special planned. Basically, memes, sketches, and videos is all I have on my agenda, but I think it'll be enough to hold me over.

For me, it's my summer classes that will hold me over. Plus, I'm writing a book, watching movies, and working at some caterings. And it's not too aggravating for me because I've sort of lost interest in gaming; not that I've abandoned gaming, but it's just not what it used to be.

 

[Roberk]

I figured as much. Jesus. E3 can’t get here fast enough.

Here’s a question for everyone, when do you think the game will release in 2018?

There are a few possibilities.

September: Released with the online service, what better way to entice people to buy online than with Smash?

October: A standard release, not too early and not too late. October has been a month for meaningful releases as seen with Odyssey.

November: This would be the latest month for Smash, December should be saved for smaller but still successful stuff a la Xenoblade 2. Maybe Metroid Prime 4 or FE16 would take December, Nintendo has games that aren’t just Smash that they have to release. November would put Smash near the holiday season but not entrenching on later releases.

 

[Pacack]

Leon is the main character of Resident Evil 2, 4, and 6 and he's seen as Resident Evil's main protagonist alongside Jill and Chris. If Capcom were to get another character on the roster, it would be between him and Monster Hunter.

Ah, gotcha. I'd heard of Jill and Chris, but not Leon.

What about Phoenix Wright? I'd argue that he's more requested for Smash than Leon given his connection to Nintendo.

Amaterasu, while a niche character, I also hear brought up in conversations a fair amount. Not nearly as much as Phoenix, but still.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Steve being written off is something I think foolish, considering how popular his game is with young audiences. Having Steve in Smash could attract a new audience, which is exactly what a third party inclusion is meant to do. (Also, I don't particularly care about what Etika's reaction would be. It doesn't affect the character's chances at all.)

Sora, whether you have a grudge against him or not, is probably the most requested remaining third party for Smash. The only thing holding him back is Disney.

Crash, Spyro, a returning Snake, Simon, Tails, Knuckles, Shadow, Eggman, Shovel Knight, Phoenix Wright, Professor Layton (I think that’s his name), Banjo/Kazooie (who Steve should definitely not join before them as a technical Microsoft rep) and probably even Sans are more requested than Sora (who is probably gonna be held back by Disney...also I’m keeping my salt over Death Battle)

And you must always care about anything related to Etika, founder of the JoyCon Boyz/Men

 

[StrangeMann]

Until E3, there's not really much to talk about aside from Rumors/Leaks. One can hope pic of the day returns after E3 so at least there's something new to talk about every day...
I'm not sure if I'd believe any leaks at the moment, but I would say that given the circumstances, Ridley is going to be a hot button topic due to the number of times his name has come up on ResetEra, Gamefaqs, and 4chan from various people and various sources. If he doesn't show up at E3, anything goes and I'll assume status quo for the character's state in the game and all previous assumptions were wrong. It's not right to expect this character anymore if he gets mentioned without a character reveal after the smash 4 shadow discussion. If he does get confirmed as a playable character, this is going to be a very interesting situation, as it'll open up pandora's box.
Also to contribute to discussion, I'm wondering if there will be any gameplay changes like from brawl to smash 4, from smash 4 to smash switch. My personal opinion was a distaste for ledge trumping over the older ledge mechanics, but aside from that I liked most of Smash 4's changes.

 

[Fenriraga]

Nintendo fans: Duuude they should totally release a Global Test Smash for Smash Bros.!

Also Nintendo fans: *datamines the entire roster of Mario Tennis Aces*

— AK (🦋 @akfamilyhome.com) (@Akfamilyhome) May 26, 2018

This is so true and it hurts.

 

[Zeox]

Nintendo fans: Duuude they should totally release a Global Test Smash for Smash Bros.!

Also Nintendo fans: *datamines the entire roster of Mario Tennis Aces*

— AK (🦋 @akfamilyhome.com) (@Akfamilyhome) May 26, 2018

This is so true and it hurts.

There wouldn't be any leaks if they told us all the roster with the announcement of a new smash game.
But of course that would be a dumb thing to do.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Hey, guys, prepare for me to ask another pointless question.

Lets talk unlockable characters and ****. I was pretty disappointing by just how easy it was to unlock everyone (may have well have just made them starters), and I've browsed these forums a couple of times, so I know I wasn't the only one. One thing I do kinda hope happens with Switch is that there are much more unlockable characters (and some other characters return to unlockable status, like all 4 members of the original 12 that were unlockable in Smash 64), and that there are much more challenging methods/much more VS battles required to get them, so it takes you more than a week, and, well, feels like an actual accomplishment. What are your stances on unlockable characters for this new Smash?

 

[Murlough]

As long as unlocking characters is not RNG based like customs and custom items I will probably be fine with it. I just hope they don't make the challenges especially hard...I have yet to beat 9.0 in Smash 4 and that last event for two player.

 

[Geno Boost]

What if this is the first game where the non-surprise retro character isn't from the NES era?

Then I would like a virtual boy era rep Harry from teleroboxer

 

[Nielicus]

Hey, guys, prepare for me to ask another pointless question.

Lets talk unlockable characters and ****. I was pretty disappointing by just how easy it was to unlock everyone (may have well have just made them starters), and I've browsed these forums a couple of times, so I know I wasn't the only one. One thing I do kinda hope happens with Switch is that there are much more unlockable characters (and some other characters return to unlockable status, like all 4 members of the original 12 that were unlockable in Smash 64), and that there are much more challenging methods/much more VS battles required to get them, so it takes you more than a week, and, well, feels like an actual accomplishment. What are your stances on unlockable characters for this new Smash?

I hope there a more unlockables, it just adds more to the overall experience for me.

Also, I'm tempted to not spoil some of the roster this time, I want to experience booting up the game and seeing characters I didn't know were in the game or veterans that were heavily changed for the first time.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I just want a larger number of unlockable characters this time

Not 8 do 12 or 14 like before and make them much harder to unlock

The custom moves the fatal mistake is it's random on which moves you unlock you should just make moves unlockable to what character your using (using Mario unlocks nothing but Mario moves eventually)

 

[TumblrFamous]

I'm hoping for like 15-20 unlockable characters. That's always a fun part of the game for me, especially when I had no idea who was going to pop out.

I doubt it'll be like that again, this is the age of social media, so they'll be sure to reveal everybody before the game comes out to produce hype, but I wish I could have some events/unlockables.

Also, my idea for unlockable customs is that in addition to trophies, beating Classic and All-Star gives you the pack for that character. You beat Classic with Mario? Here's his second set of custom moves! Of course, Classic and All-Star felt very monotonous last game, so I'd only like that if they change up the modes a bit to make them more enjoyable.

Or just have all customs unlocked from the start.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I'm hoping for like 15-20 unlockable characters. That's always a fun part of the game for me, especially when I had no idea who was going to pop out.

I doubt it'll be like that again, this is the age of social media, so they'll be sure to reveal everybody before the game comes out to produce hype, but I wish I could have some events/unlockables.

It's how we unlock each one is the mystery is but those also get revealed usually as well by the leakers after the game comes out.

And also strategy guides also have the blue prints.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Brawl and Wii U/3DS both had easy unlockables.

This too will have easy unlockables.

It's 2018. Key things like characters don't get locked like that anymore.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Nintendo fans: Duuude they should totally release a Global Test Smash for Smash Bros.!

Also Nintendo fans: *datamines the entire roster of Mario Tennis Aces*

— AK (🦋 @akfamilyhome.com) (@Akfamilyhome) May 26, 2018

This is so true and it hurts.

They avoided having the whole roster leak with the 3DS demo for Smash 4, so I imagine they'll actually do a decent job of removing any unwanted traces, unlike the Aces team.

 

[SvartWolf]

Why people is so against Steve? I don't like Rayman look and wouldn't like Rayman getting in, but the world isn't going to crumble for me if he gets in, and I don't think people are dumb for supporting him or anything. In fact if Rayman gets in I would probably be happy for their supporters and move on...

From the outside, it just looks like a lot of people is against Steve only to try to distance themselves from typical Minecraft child and look mature, but end looking more childish in the process.

The only half coherent reasons I've seen against him is cause he would look ugly ( I totally disagree) and cause he would have a boring moveset ( if Sakurai's managed to pull interesting moveset for characters I previously though we're bland and dull like duck hunt, Pacman or Bowser Jr, I'm pretty confident he may manage to pull something interesting for Steve)

With that said, I don't think Steve have super high chances of being in, considering the slight Japan bias, but it isn't as ridiculous as some people like to make it sound

 

[92MilesPrower]

Well, there seems to be a little fervor in the thread right now, so it might be best to cool it with a quick survey, yeah?

What do you plan on doing to make the two-week road to E3 less agonizing?

I don't necessarily have anything special planned. Basically, memes, sketches, and videos is all I have on my agenda, but I think it'll be enough to hold me over.

Ever since the 7th I've been doing what I now call my May-lee-thon (yeah the name kinda sucks) where I play through classic mode of Melee on normal with one character a day until the end of May. When June rolls around I might just play one or two Pokémon rom hacks or fan games leading up to E3 (definitely Phoenix Rising, its first demo just released a couple of days ago).

 

[Troykv]

Why people is so against Steve? I don't like Rayman look and wouldn't like Rayman getting in, but the world isn't going to crumble for me if he gets in, and I don't think people are dumb for supporting him or anything. In fact if Rayman gets in I would probably be happy for their supporters and move on...

From the outside, it just looks like a lot of people is against Steve only to try to distance themselves from typical Minecraft child and look mature, but end looking more childish in the process.

The only half coherent reasons I've seen against him is cause he would look ugly ( I totally disagree) and cause he would have a boring moveset ( if Sakurai's managed to pull interesting moveset for characters I previously though we're bland and dull like duck hunt, Pacman or Bowser Jr, I'm pretty confident he may manage to pull something interesting for Steve)

With that said, I don't think Steve have super high chances of being in, considering the slight Japan bias, but it isn't as ridiculous as some people like to make it sound

Yeah, I think people are just triggered for the possibility of the Smash Fanbase getting children.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Another reason this most likely won't lock many if any people?

If it truly does heavily pull from the ballot for some character selection choices?

''Here have this character you the fans voted in, but oooh you gotta jump through hoops like a circus animal to get them!"

Yeah, that won't go over well.

 

[Zeox]

What if you could also unlock special cool alt skins and special colors for the characters?

 

[Just a random scrub]

Brawl and Wii U/3DS both had easy unlockables.

This too will have easy unlockables.

It's 2018. Key things like characters don't get locked like that anymore.

The characters in Brawl weren't exceptionally hard to unlock, really. But they were fairly challenging in their own right. I just want that, but a bit more challenging.

But you're right, that will probably never happen again.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Yeah, I think people are just triggered for the possibility of the Smash Fanbase getting children.

As if children don't already play Smash Brothers.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm hoping for like 15-20 unlockable characters. That's always a fun part of the game for me, especially when I had no idea who was going to pop out.

I doubt it'll be like that again, this is the age of social media, so they'll be sure to reveal everybody before the game comes out to produce hype, but I wish I could have some events/unlockables.

Didn't stop from not being officially revealed as playable characters before the Japanese release of Smash 4 3DS.

''Here have this character you the fans voted in, but oooh you gotta jump through hoops like a circus animal to get them!"

(given how well he scored in the Melee poll).

 

[Troykv]

As if children don't already play Smash Brothers.

Exactly! Smash Bros is already a children friendly franchise.