Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Johnknight1]

Don't leave yourself disappointed if it doesn't happen this year.

Smash 4 on the Switch might not come out this year, but I don't see a scenario where it doesn't get announced this year.

If anyone would be disappointed by a lack of it, it won't be the fans.

No, it will be the stockholders. Smash produces gigantic revenue (Smash 4 with all the Amiibo, DLC, 2 games and consequent console sales must have net like a 3 billion dollar profit).

If the Ultimate edition port of Mario Kart 8 is anything to go off of, Smash 4 on the Switch should just rain 80's crack cocaine dealer level of money on Nintendo's front porch.

Nintendo's upper management is smart enough to realize this.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Smash 4 on the Switch is almost definitely going to get shown at E3 or at least confirmed at E3.

Nintendo won't leave any stones unturned.

Smash 5 as a game might be confirmed too, but with no footage shown. If anything, Smash 5 is now in pre-production or just starting the beginning of the production.

Nintendo is only talking about games through 2017 though. If it's not coming until next year, it won't even be mentioned.

Also, if a Smash 4 port is coming with new content and potentially new DLC for it throughout the Switch's lifespan, this will be the Super Smash Bros for the Switch. It'd be much less of a undertaking for Nintendo to request Sakurai to simply give us a character(s)/stage(s) ever few months through DLC, than to ask him to create an entirely new Smash Bros game which he has stated several times he is tired of making, and wants to move more focus to other projects.

We'll either get a "Deluxe" Smash 4 port this year or next year, or we'll get Smash 5 3-4 years from now. Before you say they wouldn't wait that long, look at the gaps between Melee to Brawl, and Brawl to Wii U/3DS. Wii U/3DS came out in 2014, we won't see an entirely new Smash until 2020 at the earliest, unless we get the rumored Smash 4 port, and it gets the platformer treatment to become the definitive Smash Bros Game for the Switch.

It's just unlikely that we'll see Smash at E3 this year. Maybe a Direct later this year showcasing early quarter games for 2018, but who knows really? I hope we see Smash 4, and I hope it's a "deluxe" with new content and the promise of even more to come with it being a Holiday release along side Super Mario Odyssey.

We shall see.

 

[Johnknight1]

Nintendo is only talking about games through 2017 though. If it's not coming until next year, it won't even be mentioned.

Also, if a Smash 4 port is coming with new content and potentially new DLC for it throughout the Switch's lifespan, this will be the Super Smash Bros for the Switch. It'd be much less of a undertaking for Nintendo to request Sakurai to simply give us a character(s)/stage(s) ever few months through DLC, than to ask him to create an entirely new Smash Bros game which he has stated several times he is tired of making, and wants to move more focus to other projects.

Smash 4 is a moneymaker, but it won't be a moneymaker 3 years from now. Nintendo needs as many moneymaker games. Nintendo can't afford to have another console flat bomb like the Wii U.

You can make Smash 4 a moneymaker for a solid year (especially with some DLC), but nothing more.

Ultimately what people want is:
1. Smash 4 on a console that more than just a few million people own and that isn't desperately underpowered in an underpowered console generation.
2. A new and current Smash game that fully realizes the technology of the system it is on.

Smash makes too much money to not have a remastered edition of the latest game and a new game, just like Mario Kart.

Remastering Smash 4 and developing Smash 5 is a lot less than making Smash 3DS and Smash Wii U at the same time and forcing the gameplay to be 1:1 on both.

 

[N3ON]

No, it will be the stockholders. Smash produces gigantic revenue (Smash 4 with all the Amiibo, DLC, 2 games and consequent console sales must have net like a 3 billion dollar profit).

With Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, Splatoon, and Pokemon in the same year and Nintendo's stock at a high it hasn't seen in years with few signs of it taking a big plunge, I don't think they'd be too down. The fans would be more disappointed, since Nintendo is already delivering on the financial side of things.

Plus the stockholders care about the FY more, which would give Ninty til the end of March.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Smash 4 is a moneymaker, but it won't be a moneymaker 3 years from now. Nintendo needs as many moneymaker games. Nintendo can't afford to have another console flat bomb like the Wii U.

You can make Smash 4 a moneymaker for a solid year (especially with some DLC), but nothing more.

Ultimately what people want is:
1. Smash 4 on a console that more than just a few million people own and that isn't desperately underpowered in an underpowered console generation.
2. A new and current Smash game that fully realizes the technology of the system it is on.

Smash makes too much money to not have a remastered edition of the latest game and a new game, just like Mario Kart.

Remastering Smash 4 and developing Smash 5 is a lot less than making Smash 3DS and Smash Wii U at the same time and forcing the gameplay to be 1:1 on both.

Smash and Mario Kart are totally different games though. Each with their own specific development requirements. No one in Mario Kart has a unique moveset, or Final Smash. Unique speed variations and Kart/Motorcycle tricks are unique. That's it. It's a racing game.

For Smash, albeit clones, every character has their own unique moveset which takes a lot of time to formulate and implement. Then they have to balance all the characters, and create stages, and there's things like stage hazards, items, trophies, licensing for 3rd party characters, and so much more that goes into the development of that game.

For a Super Smash Bros 4 port with new characters/stages from the start, with new DLC coming down the pipeline, and it's visuals being slightly upgraded by Switch, AND Smash 5 to both be released for the Switch during it's lifetime is just not going to happen.

Development for Wii U/3DS ended back in early 2016 with Bayonetta's inclusion. That was only a year ago. If a Deluxe Smash 4 port that's a combination of Wii U/ 3DS features with new content is released along with the promise of DLC over the Switch's lifetime that will be THE Super Smash Bros Game for the Switch, and we won't see Smash 5 until the Switch's successor. Console lifespans won't allow for two Smash games to be on the same console because of the extreme amount of preparation and development that goes into them.

With Masahiro Sakurai himself saying he is tired of working on Super Smash Bros, I think it'll be a long time before we see an entirely new Smash. A Smash Port could come out Holiday/Sometime next year. Unless Smash 5 has some MAJOR cuts and less content, but I think we all know that a new Smash means new fighters, new stages, new items, and all that jazz. Sakurai has stated before that while cuts are necessary, he hates making them.

I even have to retract a statement I previously said. Smash for Wii U/3DS came out in late 2014, and was supported until early 2016. Technically, the game wasn't complete until 2016. We'll either get A Smash for Switch deluxe port, or Smash 5 in 3-4 years at the earliest, and that's with major cuts made to the roster and less content being added in.

It makes more since to get A port of Smash 4 out and support over YEARS with DLC to keep it fresh, exciting, and in people's mind. When I say this I mean A new character or two + new stage, every four months over the next 4 years. That'd be atleast 12 new characters and 12 new stages (which is wishful thinking really). That'd basically be a "new" Smash game and it'd be solely for the Switch. It be a port in essence alone, and would become its own definitive version of a Super Smash Bros game for the Switch.

With it taking 6-7 years between new Smash iterations, if we get a port, we won't see Smash 5 until the Switch's successor which is years and years from now. With all this being said, I can totally see them developing Smash 5 whilst supporting the port with DLC. By that I mean, DLC is a much lesser task than creating a new game from the ground up. It'd give Sakurai a chance to work on other things, develop a character every few months on the side, and then at some point a few years from now starting development on Smash 5 and having it ready for the Switch's successor in it's first year.

I'm sorry I can't see two Smash games on one console. It just seems insurmountably impossible to accomplish.

 

[Johnknight1]

With Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, Splatoon, and Pokemon in the same year and Nintendo's stock at a high it hasn't seen in years with few signs of it taking a big plunge, I don't think they'd be too down. The fans would be more disappointed, since Nintendo is already delivering on the financial side of things.

Plus the stockholders care about the FY more, which would give Ninty til the end of March.

Right. That timeline is a huge reason why the Switch came out so early. If the year ended in say June, the Switch, Breath of the Wild, and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe would have come out in June.

And another reason why that happens too is it pushes forth, CEO's can say "hey our numbers are low because we don't have all the profits yet from this major title," which is another reason why the Switch, Breath of the Wild, and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe came out when they did.

I would not be shocked if Smash 4 on the Switch came out in March. I also would not be shocked if Smash 5 got announced to be in (pre) development around then. Huge announcements drive up stock prices after all.

 

[Arcadenik]

I would be okay with a SSB4 Switch port if it's a combined port of both Wii U and 3DS versions plus all the DLC stuff at the very least.

I really want to play the 3DS stages and Smash Run on my TV screen the most.

 

[Johnknight1]

I would be okay with a SSB4 Switch port if it's a combined port of both Wii U and 3DS versions plus all the DLC stuff at the very least.

I really want to play the 3DS stages and Smash Run on my TV screen the most.

^^^^^

Millions feel this way, and that, along with promoting the new system while waiting for a sequel, is why you do this.

Of course the critical acclaim and huge fanbase (casual, competitive, all of it) is another reason why. If you package all of Smash Wii U's and 3DS' content together with some added stuff (maybe a few new characters, stages, and a newly added game more or two [break the targets and board the platform please!]) and some added patch work, Nintendo could not only improve an already excellent game, but make a lot of people happy while making a lot of guaranteed dough.

Making a lot of guaranteed dough is not guaranteed in this industry whatsoever. All you gotta do is look at financial flops like Battleborn, the latest Hitman game (which I rather enjoyed), Star Fox: Zero and that Metroid Prime: Federation Force as a few examples of this. So you do not pass these opportunities up, especially with companies remastered or re-releasing older games all the time.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

I doubt we get Smash at E3, but I think it'l be announced after a good time has passed and ARMS has built a playerbase and some DLC.. Early 2018 announcement, mid-late 2018 release. My prediction. Port with 3-4 newcomers and 2-3 vets. All 3ds content and DLC.

 

[SlickWylde]

I would be pretty surprised if Nintendo talked about Smash at E3 at all. If it is ported this year somehow, I would think it would just be a straight port with no additions, and would probably be the Wii U version.

But as several people said, they don't want to cannabalize their other fighting games right now. They need a chance to grow. Announcing Smash would take attention away from that.

But who knows? It's Nintendo, they do things very differently than we think they should 99% of the time.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So, that Pokken port kinda solidified the idea of Smash getting a port

 

[Chandeelure]

So, that Pokken port kinda solidified the idea of Smash getting a port

Smash DX with all the DLC and just one new character! Hype!1!
That would be terrible, except if it gets DLC later.

Will Pokken DX get DLC later?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Smash DX with all the DLC and just one new character! Hype!1!
That would be terrible, except if it gets DLC later.

Will Pokken DX get DLC later?

Dunno, but I meant "Hey this is the second Wii U game getting a Deluxe port and Smash was a Wii U game"

 

[Chandeelure]

Dunno, but I meant "Hey this is the second Wii U game getting a Deluxe port and Smash was a Wii U game"

Oh yeah, I know.
I just said that as a joke, a kinda realistic joke.

I personally think it's going to be a port.

 

[AlphaSSB]

So, that Pokken port kinda solidified the idea of Smash getting a port

Also helps that the pre-existing Pokken controller is compatible with the Switch, albeit when docked. Odds are, the Wii U Gamecube Controller Adapter will end up being compatible as well.

Means less development time making a brand new controller adapter, and a potential boost to sales.

 

[Opossum]

I'm still banking on Smash 4 DX. All DLC included, some 3DS stages ported over, Smash Run, Inklings, Decidueye, Inkopolis Stage, and Alola Stage.

Maybe a veteran in place of or in addition to one of those newcomers. I definitely don't expect extensive character additions for a port.

 

[Arcadenik]

I'm still banking on Smash 4 DX. All DLC included, all (except for maybe Flat Zone 2 as it's already part of Flat Zone X and Miiverse since the Switch lacks Miiverse) 3DS stages ported over, Smash Run, Inklings, Decidueye, Inkopolis Stage, and Alola Stage.

Maybe a veteran in place of or in addition to one of those newcomers. I definitely don't expect extensive character additions for a port.

Fixed.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Am I the only one who thinks we won't be seeing Smash at E3 anymore?

No, you're not: I'm not expecting one either. I can't see an entirely new game happening yet, and yeah, ARMS releasing soon and Pokken DX just getting announced make me doubt a Smash port announcement, as well.

 

[Johnknight1]

Also helps that the pre-existing Pokken controller is compatible with the Switch, albeit when docked. Odds are, the Wii U Gamecube Controller Adapter will end up being compatible as well.

Means less development time making a brand new controller adapter, and a potential boost to sales.

I mean... the GameCube adapter is a USB adapter, so it makes sense.

Only problem is the lack of USB ports on the Switch for 2 GameCube Adapter. I don't have one, but doesn't it only have 3 USB ports?

The Wii U had 4.

Granted, you can easily fix this with a USB expansion cord, but 1st party companies rarely make official USB expansion cords.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

So... I was expecting Smash4 on the Switch not be announced nor mentioned at E3, 'cause the spotlight and the release window at this year would be give for the supposed Pokémon Stars.. I was guessing that there wasn't room for both games this year. But then... The Pokémon Company is doing their own weird decisions and this game is not happening. That alone would be enough reason to believe that now Smash4 can be a thing at E3... but I can't ignore the fact that Pokkén Tournament DX was also announced.. filling already the gap which Stars would occupy, and the role of fighting title (besides ARMS). And above everything.. Nintendo need to spread those Wii U ports ... they simply can't get stuck on the image that Switch is just a machine to play Wii U games again..

So.. I'm not changing my mind.... I still don't expect Smash related news at E3, but maybe in a Direct in the following months (and still won't be released this year).

 

[Chandeelure]

So, is Decidueye in Pokken something good or bad for its chances? XD

It's good because it shows its popularity, but it can be bad because Sakurai always wants to be the special snowflake who wants to be unique and different.

 

[Opossum]

So, is Decidueye in Pokken something good or bad for its chances? XD

It's good because it shows its popularity, but it can be bad because Sakurai always wants to be the special snowflake who wants to be unique and different.

Good if anything. Good in the sense that they feel it's a big enough draw for those who'll double dip on a fighting game port. Plus it shows GF isn't against promoting him more.

Definitely not a bad thing though. Exposure is exposure.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

So... I was expecting Smash4 on the Switch not be announced nor mentioned at E3, 'cause the spotlight and the release window at this year would be give for the supposed Pokémon Stars.. I was guessing that there wasn't room for both games this year. But then... The Pokémon Company is doing their own weird decisions and this game is not happening. That alone would be enough reason to believe that now Smash4 can be a thing at E3... but I can't ignore the fact that Pokkén Tournament DX was also announced.. filling already the gap which Stars would occupy, and the role of fighting title (besides ARMS). And above everything.. Nintendo need to spread those Wii U ports ... they simply can't get stuck on the image that Switch is just a machine to play Wii U games again..

So.. I'm not changing my mind.... I still don't expect Smash related news at E3, but maybe in a Direct in the following months (and still won't be released this year).

That's what I am thinking. No reveal at E3, and no mention if it's a 2018 release. Then, maybe sometime late this year, we'll get a standard direct showcasing games coming out through Spring 2018, and Smash will be one of those titles.

I know Smash is normally a title revealed at E3, but as we get closer to the date, I just can't see if for this year, but I also don't expect them to wait another entire year.

I'd love to be wrong, and it be revealed at E3 though. Even just a snippet of a tease of a reveal with "We'll have more about this title at a later date, so stay tuned!"

 

[Deleted member]

It definitely doesn't hurt Decidueye's chances, but I wouldn't say the Pokken appearance directly helps its chances either.

One thing that people need to keep in the back of their minds is that whatever happens with Pokken is not influential of what happens with Smash and vice-versa. They are two separate beasts entirely.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

So, is Decidueye in Pokken something good or bad for its chances? XD

It's good because it shows its popularity, but it can be bad because Sakurai always wants to be the special snowflake who wants to be unique and different.

I think it helps. I would love Decidueye to become a playable fighter. He'd complete that trifecta of starter types that everyone thinks exist and needs to be complete. Also, he'd bring Sun/Moon representation. Sun/Moon were incredibly popular too. Sold very well. I think the character is popular so we'll just have to see.

 

[Luminario]

Viable Pokemon are also different between Pokken and Smash.

Someone like Mimikyu would be support at best in something like Pokken, but could easily work as a fighter in Smash. Decidueye is viable in both, but in Pokken it's unparalleled in Gen 7 viability and popularity.

 

[N3ON]

Well Decidueye's inclusion in Pokemon certainly isn't a bad thing for its Smash chances. It would be awfully petty of Sakurai to exclude a character on that basis. Whether it's a good thing is much more the prudent question. What we have is an outcome without any of the reasoning behind it, making it difficult to determine its applicability to any other games. We can't assume why Decidueye was included.

What we can infer is that GF is comfortable using it as headlining promotion. This isn't a truly great shock, and I'm sure Decidueye would not be the sole Gen 7 Pokemon GF would entrust to this role, but this is the one of which we have proof they did.

So I believe it does move the needle towards its inclusion being a "good thing for Smash chances". Not much, but a little. Certainly not enough to disregard the other possibilities. And also, not because of Pokken itself, but just because it tips GF's hand, ever so slightly.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So, is Decidueye in Pokken something good or bad for its chances? XD

Being a Pokken Tournament contender does not guarantee a spot in Smash Bros.. Jigglypuff and Greninja are not even playable in Pokken Tournament.

I will say though, that a Switch port of Pokken Tournament would be a big opportunity for Buzzwole and/or Pheromosa if Smash Bros. isn't going to work for them.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Honestly, I think people are really overanaylzing this


Decidueye being in pokken pretty much means 2 things to me
1. Decidueye can have a moveset in a fighting game (this was already obvious but it's concrete proof)
2. Decidueye is being watched by folks in Nintendo for getting promotion/making appearances outside the mainline games

both are good, but not overwhelmingly "CunFi1rMEd" type of help.

 

[Arcadenik]

Being a Pokken Tournament contender does not guarantee a spot in Smash Bros.. Jigglypuff and Greninja are not even playable in Pokken Tournament.

True... but Greninja and Jigglypuff were in Smash long before Pokken was announced.

We don't have a character who was in Pokken first before they got in Smash.

 

[GaroMaster]

I know people here have already mentioned that Smash 4 Switch won't be announced due to ARMS and Pokken, but there's another reason entirely.
E3 2017 is going to be home to tournaments of Arms, Splatoon 2, and Pokken. I sincerely doubt that they would have a fourth tournament in the form of Smash. Granted, Smash is the one that kickstarted this idea for Nintendo to do this at E3, but I sincerely doubt they have room for four livestreamed tournaments.
Besides, the Switch is doing well enough. They need to save their big guns for next year as well. 2017 is already looking fantastic. Better than the past two years for Nintendo, that's for sure.

 

[FunAtParties]

Now that everyone's convinced it won't be there, watch Smash show up.

 

[God Robert's Cousin]

Now that everyone's convinced it won't be there, watch Smash show up.

If the opposite holds true, can I assume both possibilities at once to summon the announcement of more Mii Fighter costumes on the Wii U and 3DS versions?

 

[Deleted member]

Being a Pokken Tournament contender does not guarantee a spot in Smash Bros.. Jigglypuff and Greninja are not even playable in Pokken Tournament.

I will say though, that a Switch port of Pokken Tournament would be a big opportunity for Buzzwole and/or Pheromosa if Smash Bros. isn't going to work for them.

Honestly, I think people are really overanaylzing this


Decidueye being in pokken pretty much means 2 things to me
1. Decidueye can have a moveset in a fighting game (this was already obvious but it's concrete proof)
2. Decidueye is being watched by folks in Nintendo for getting promotion/making appearances outside the mainline games

both are good, but not overwhelmingly "CunFi1rMEd" type of help.

These are what I thought too.

And I hate to say this as a Decidueye supporter, but I tend to think its inclusion in Pokkén reduces its chances to be in Smash rather than the opposite.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm not convinced it can't show up. Now, I do think they may wait longer, but only if it's a new game. As a port, it makes sense to announce it at e3 since it's a huge series for Nintendo and will get people hyped. Of course, only if it has new content.

As for amount of characters, I'm looking at 3-7. It's quite possible the port got started on by Namco-Bandai when the main game was finished. Sakurai made a separate DLC team as is, so two teams working separately is realistic. The only thing left after all that time is adding the characters that Sakurai's team worked on(the DLC ones), balance, and anything new. A 2018 release based upon that is possible. Of course, we don't know when the next Smash game started work on. We really don't know anything behind the scenes enough, just a rumor that Namco-Bandai is developing a Smash game... and that's it.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If Decidueye being in Pokken justifies it being in Smash, then the same goes for Impa and Hyrule Warriors.

 

[FunAtParties]

If Decidueye being in Pokken justifies it being in Smash, then the same goes for Impa and Hyrule Warriors.

Both work for me.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

We already knew Impa could fight well beforehand.

We didn't know how well Decidueye could really fight outside of a few pre-defined animations. One also has been around for a very long time and yet took forever to get a mention. And also has been a side character for quite a long time, before being somewhat notable. The other is a major character and headliner for the game, pretty much on Link's territory. Impa is more like Meowth at this point. Damn notable, but that doesn't inherently mean she has a chance.

There's way too many differences here to make comparisons at this point. Likewise, there's a lot of different context(including the fact Impa isn't in a fighting game, making the differences even greater).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If Decidueye being in Pokken justifies it being in Smash, then the same goes for Impa and Hyrule Warriors.

He's right you know.

You can't just say certain spin offs count and others don't.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Sakurai did say his next project was already decided upon back in January of last year. If that project is this supposed Smash Deluxe port it would make sense for it to be revealed at E3 this year.