Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Guybrush20X6]

Hmmm... Imma break down the new additions of each game by what they were importnace wise to their own games

64

9 Main characters (DK and Yoshi having been promoted from Villain and side-kick)
1 Side character
2 Pokemon Mascots (Jigglypuff was really big back in the Gen 1 days)

Melee

4 Main Characters
3(4) Side Characters ()
2 Villains
2 Pokemon
2 alt versions of a character


Brawl

8 Main Characters
2 Side Characters
2 Villains
1 (4) Pokemon ()
2 Alt Versions
1 Hardware Accessory


Smash 4


11 Main Characters (at least the gunman in the trio)
3 Side Characters
2 Villains
1 Pokemon
1 NPC Instructor
1 (3 versions) Avatar

What this all means is anyone's guess but there you go (predicts the trouble he's gonna get for not having Lucina as a MC and starts digging a hole)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I haven't seen this place in ages, so I have a question, assuming the Ridley and Simon Belmont rumours are true, how would you all feel? Personally I'd lose my **** for Ridley and although I only played 2 CastleVania games, I had my fair share of fun and would welcome the Belmont legacy in Smash

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I haven't seen this place in ages, so I have a question, assuming the Ridley and Simon Belmont rumours are true, how would you all feel? Personally I'd lose my **** for Ridley and although I only played 2 CastleVania games, I had my fair share of fun and would welcome the Belmont legacy in Smash

Yeah pretty much the same, I'm getting desperate for Ridley at this point, if any character "deserves" to be playable it's him, I'd ****ing scream the house down. I have no experience with castlevania so I wouldn't be super excited but I know how iconic he is and he gets a pass cause of that, pretty much the same reaction I had to all the 3rd parties except Bayo who's games I've actually played and love.

 

[WaddleMatt]

I decided to create a new version of my prediction roster due to new leaks and my thoughts.

• I still think Captain Toad (or Toad in general) is the most likely Mario candidate. He is easily the most popular and famous Mario character who is not yet playable.
• Dixie Kong is way more likely than K. Rool. She has actually appeared in recent games.
• Here is where it gets interesting. We haven't had a new Zelda character that isn't a clone since Melee even though the other characters have significantly changed. I think this game will be the one to put Zelda in the spotlight. I wanted to add 2 new characters so I picked 2 that are recurring and have moveset potential. Impa and Tingle. I know there is much debate over how Impa would be in Smash due to how much her character changes in each game but characters in Smash are never replications of a singular game. Impa in Smash could use assets from all kinds of Zelda games.
• The Ridley/Simon Belmont leak is looking convincing to me and if anyone is going to start a hype train it will be Ridley. Also a reveal at E3 would coincide nicely with Metroid Prime 4.
• Bandana Dee is the obvious next Kirby rep and would also be hyped up. He is part of the main cast now and deserves a place in Smash.
• Wolf should return, many people want him back and his appearance in Star Fox Zero backs him up.
• I seriously think we could potentially see 2 new Pokemon this time. It's not like it hasn't happened before. As to who though? Probably Gen 7 but honestly I have no idea. Decidueye? Mimikyu? Lycanroc? Eevee?
• Takamaru makes perfect sense for the next retro pick. Sakurai has shown interest in him before so the odds are in his favour.
• We are going to get a new Fire Emblem rep, I think it is pretty obvious. As to who? I know next to nothing about Fire Emblem so I would have to say Celica or Lyn.
• Rhythm Heaven should really get a character. I think Rhythm Girl would be the most interesting choice. A character with a moveset based around dancing sounds really interesting.
• Rex and Pyra are pretty obvious choices for Xenoblade, I think they have a high chance of being playable.
• Spring-Man may be from a newer series but I feel it is possible Nintendo may have requested for Sakurai to add him. This would overall really help Arms sell.
• Onto 3rd parties. I never really know with these but I think 3 is a good number. Like I said before I think the Ridley/Simon Belmont leak is quite possible and Simon seems to be popular so I added him to the roster. Rayman also still seems like a very obvious choice to me. As for another candidate? Maybe Crash? I really don't know.

If anyone has any criticism let me know.

 

[Wyoming]

All you people calling Wolf a lock whilst I remain optimistic he might make it back as DLC for Smash Switch.

 

[Cosmic77]

So I've been thinking about the Zelda champions. So when Sakurai was making the roster Zelda wasn't out yet. So, first off how would he know about them. Now lets say he got to play the game while it was in development. The vanilla version of BotW has less than 5 min of cut scenes with the champions. That's it. Why would Sakurai assume off of that that they would be popular and should be playable.

Here's the greatest part about being a supporter of the Champions - popularity means squat.

People would not shut up about "Zelda Wii U". Literally every time there was a Nintendo Direct, fans would assault Nintendo with questions like "Where's Zelda!?" and "When will it get released!?". We got our first hands-on taste of BotW at E3 2016, which is coincidentally around the time Sakurai supposedly started work on Smash Switch. Fans responded positively to the demo, and I'm sure Sakurai could tell how groundbreaking this new Zelda game would be. If there was ever a game Sakurai would've wanted to learn more about so he could add content in Smash, BotW would be that game. Timing was perfect, and there isn't much of an excuse for Sakurai to ignore a game as huge as that when considering candidates for the roster.

If Sakurai knew about the Champions' existence, and if he knew that BotW would likely be the critically-acclaimed game to help drive the Switch forward, then I have a feeling he would at least consider adding a Champion just for the sake of having a newcomer to represent BotW, a relevant Zelda game that would likely be a success. In this case, relevancy (Corrin) and the impact of their game (WFT) would be his reason for justifying their inclusion, not popularity.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

One thing I also want is the final results of the Smash Ballot, or at least the 20 most wanted characters.
I'm surprised there was no (fake) leak concerning it.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I haven't seen this place in ages, so I have a question, assuming the Ridley and Simon Belmont rumours are true, how would you all feel? Personally I'd lose my **** for Ridley and although I only played 2 CastleVania games, I had my fair share of fun and would welcome the Belmont legacy in Smash

The newcomer roster would already be better than Smash 4's for me, Ridley alone would do that quite easily, and Simon would also be right up there with Smash 4's best inclusions imo. I'm not letting myself get carried away, unless more proof comes out in its favor I'll be tuning into the E3 stream not expecting it to be true, but I really really hope it's true, it'd be absolutely amazing.

 

[Pazzo.]

I still think the Metroidvania on Ice rumor is fishy, and not because of the giant fish from Summit.

Just a few weeks ago we were making arguments that Sakurai wouldn't want to work with Konami.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Just a few weeks ago we were making arguments that Sakurai wouldn't want to work with Konami.

On this website we also always argued about why Cloud would never join Smash Bros. a few years ago.
This man will always surprise us. Plus it would be funny that this leak does end up being real, showing how much we are bad at speculation:
Simon from Castlevania, the third party that not many people saw coming, with Crash, Bomberman and Rayman being more mentioned.
Ridley from Metroid, deemed impossible to make playable, joins as one of the first newcomers on Switch.
No cuts, which would be the biggest surprise in all this.
The only point we would be spot on are the ICs.

 

[Nekoo]

Guys honestly...never say that ANY Characters is a shoe-in or guaranteed. Whenever it's Wolf, K.Rool, Bandana Dee or I dunno who... Don't set up yourself to disapointment like that, and keep your expectations to a reasonable level... Because those "shoe-in" discussion is always what start Flammewars once they're deconfirmed.

 

[Garteam]

I haven't seen this place in ages, so I have a question, assuming the Ridley and Simon Belmont rumours are true, how would you all feel? Personally I'd lose my **** for Ridley and although I only played 2 CastleVania games, I had my fair share of fun and would welcome the Belmont legacy in Smash

Ridley is my most wanted character for this game, seeing him would blow my mind and get a near Etika level reaction from me. Simon I wouldn't be as hyped for simply because I don't have a huge relationship with the character, but I'd still be interested in his inclusion as a piece of gaming history and as a unique fighter on the roster.

I still think the Metroidvania on Ice rumor is fishy, and not because of the giant fish from Summit.

Just a few weeks ago we were making arguments that Sakurai wouldn't want to work with Konami.

Metroidvania on Ice is the greatest name for a leak I've ever heard.

Smashboards has always had a pretty shaky relationship with Third Party speculation. We initially assumed that one company couldn't get more than 2 characters, then Ryu got in. We assumed the character must primarily be a Nintendo character, then Cloud got in. We assumed the 3rd party franchise must be a multi-million seller to stand a chance at Smash, then Bayonetta got in.

Us assuming "Snake wasn't in Smash 4, therefore Sakurai doesn't want to work with Konami" and then being wrong doesn't really surprise me. The "rules of Smash speculation" often allow us to remain fairly ground and correct when the rules are true, but totally off the mark when the rules we thought were in place never existed.

 

[Pazzo.]

Metroidvania on Ice is the greatest name for a leak I've ever heard.

It's not from me, but I've forgotten who to credit.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

People constantly bring up the aspect of development timing being the basis for character selection, but there's a fatal problem with this type of logic.

Nintendo has had a rather weak time period for several years between 2013-2016, with the Wii U in particular being a magnet for rather controversial games or game droughts. It would be a disservice if that time period was the focus of the next Smash game, since Nintendo themselves like to pretend the Wii U never happened. Though to be fair the 3DS has had better success, so I could them focusing a lot more on that system instead.

This is kind of reflected in the character selection too. It's like, you're limiting yourself to characters from Fire Emblem, The Legend of Zelda, Super Mario Bros., Pokemon, Kirby, and miscellaneous titles like Rhythm Heaven Megamix and Xenoblade Chronicles X. Settling purely on that is way too restricting, and like I said this is during a period when Nintendo was pumping out controversial titles, so some characters would get heat just because they're tied to such games, like how Toad gained a negative reception in recent years due to being pushed so hard in spin-offs.

I would not be surprised if the development team purposely went in the opposite direction this time around, looking ahead into future games in order to possibly get better options. Plus there's still the factor of character inclusions being influenced by the ballot, characters already being considered being reconsidered again, and of course the grey area that is the guest characters.

I get what you mean but this is still the same franchise where Other M got a ton of representation despite how much of a failure it was.

That being said, this is where ballot choices come in.

Sakurai never cuts character because he wants to

False, Pichu wasn't even planned for Brawl.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I decided to create a new version of my prediction roster due to new leaks and my thoughts.

• I still think Captain Toad (or Toad in general) is the most likely Mario candidate. He is easily the most popular and famous Mario character who is not yet playable.
• Dixie Kong is way more likely than K. Rool. She has actually appeared in recent games.
• Here is where it gets interesting. We haven't had a new Zelda character that isn't a clone since Melee even though the other characters have significantly changed. I think this game will be the one to put Zelda in the spotlight. I wanted to add 2 new characters so I picked 2 that are recurring and have moveset potential. Impa and Tingle. I know there is much debate over how Impa would be in Smash due to how much her character changes in each game but characters in Smash are never replications of a singular game. Impa in Smash could use assets from all kinds of Zelda games.
• The Ridley/Simon Belmont leak is looking convincing to me and if anyone is going to start a hype train it will be Ridley. Also a reveal at E3 would coincide nicely with Metroid Prime 4.
• Bandana Dee is the obvious next Kirby rep and would also be hyped up. He is part of the main cast now and deserves a place in Smash.
• Wolf should return, many people want him back and his appearance in Star Fox Zero backs him up.
• I seriously think we could potentially see 2 new Pokemon this time. It's not like it hasn't happened before. As to who though? Probably Gen 7 but honestly I have no idea. Decidueye? Mimikyu? Lycanroc? Eevee?
• Takamaru makes perfect sense for the next retro pick. Sakurai has shown interest in him before so the odds are in his favour.
• We are going to get a new Fire Emblem rep, I think it is pretty obvious. As to who? I know next to nothing about Fire Emblem so I would have to say Celica or Lyn.
• Rhythm Heaven should really get a character. I think Rhythm Girl would be the most interesting choice. A character with a moveset based around dancing sounds really interesting.
• Rex and Pyra are pretty obvious choices for Xenoblade, I think they have a high chance of being playable.
• Spring-Man may be from a newer series but I feel it is possible Nintendo may have requested for Sakurai to add him. This would overall really help Arms sell.
• Onto 3rd parties. I never really know with these but I think 3 is a good number. Like I said before I think the Ridley/Simon Belmont leak is quite possible and Simon seems to be popular so I added him to the roster. Rayman also still seems like a very obvious choice to me. As for another candidate? Maybe Crash? I really don't know.

If anyone has any criticism let me know.

This roster is basically exactly mine lol. Just too many Pokemon imo, if Simon is in then that other third-party is probably Snake.

And the Zelda newcomers. That's too optimistic we'd get two lol. My personal idea right now alligns with Cosmic's recent post, where BOTW was such a build up and big deal at E3 2016 and when it released, that having characters that didn't even appear in it would surprise me. I'm thinking if we get a new character it'll be from BOTW, I'm also thinking it's now or never for a Zelda newcomer. Impa is a weird situation, she's in BOTW but not at all how people want her to be represented so idk...

 

[Jak_spoon]

Here's the greatest part about being a supporter of the Champions - popularity means squat.

People would not shut up about "Zelda Wii U". Literally every time there was a Nintendo Direct, fans would assault Nintendo with questions like "Where's Zelda!?" and "When will it get released!?". We got our first hands-on taste of BotW at E3 2016, which is coincidentally around the time Sakurai supposedly started work on Smash Switch. Fans responded positively to the demo, and I'm sure Sakurai could tell how groundbreaking this new Zelda game would be. If there was ever a game Sakurai would've wanted to learn more about so he could add content in Smash, BotW would be that game. Timing was perfect, and there isn't much of an excuse for Sakurai to ignore a game as huge as that when considering candidates for the roster.

If Sakurai knew about the Champions' existence, and if he knew that BotW would likely be the critically-acclaimed game to help drive the Switch forward, then I have a feeling he would at least consider adding a Champion just for the sake of having a newcomer to represent BotW, a relevant Zelda game that would likely be a success. In this case, relevancy (Corrin) and the impact of their game (WFT) would be his reason for justifying their inclusion, not popularity.

Sure, I mean if that is the hope you want to hold on to then fine but I still hold to the fact that they don’t have any form of a shot because their inclusion is completely unpresidented. WFT was a previous gen game that had established impact like Rosalina. Corrin along with Lucas, Roy, and Greninja are the main characters of their game not side characters.

And really if you guys want to make fan rosters and wishlist rosters that’s also fine but I’m here to make an accurate prediction so I’m going to swing a different way with the assumptions that have to be made for their inclusion.

 

[Curious Villager]

Wasn't Twilight Princess also a huge deal back in Brawl? Yet the newcomer from that game wasn't Midna as most speculated, but Toon Link (And Toon Zelda was planned) from Wind Waker. The most TP got where redesign's for the main Zelda cast. I don't know if I would put as much stock onto the Champions but I guess we'll see how things go.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

The thing with Champions is that BoTW was always gonna be relevant, regardless of critical acclaim.
Nintendo pushed this baby so many times, including dedicating E3 2016 to it.
Champions also got their own amiibo each, and the resemblance of a story that BoTW has revolves around them as well.

BoTW is a very big game and I doubt Nintendo only found out about that after it was released and sold like hotcakes.

As for "precedent", it's just a fancy word for patterns and we all know what's left of those.

Of course, putting stock in a Champion is less "safe" than putting down no Zelda newcomer at all, but it's not to the point where we as Smashboards should trample it with our high horse of Troy-is-our-boy

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Exclusions (in order of likelihood):

-Roy
-Shulk
-Toon Link
-Lucas

You better have a DAMN good reason for removing these characters, including my boy

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Guys honestly...never say that ANY Characters is a shoe-in or guaranteed. Whenever it's Wolf, K.Rool, Bandana Dee or I dunno who... Don't set up yourself to disapointment like that, and keep your expectations to a reasonable level... Because those "shoe-in" discussion is always what start Flammewars once they're deconfirmed.

The only true shoe-in for this game was Inkling, and it was confirmed before we've even seen anything from the actual game. I think with pretty much any other potential newcomer, if they aren't in, then we've more or less already figured out why that might be, there is no single character from here on where it'll be a genuine shock if it isn't in imo.

This is by far the hardest game to predict the roster for yet, because pretty much anything can happen, I'm half expecting it to have more surprises than ever as I think Sakurai might shake his philosophy up a bit given how the options are thinning out. I'm sure that any roster that's perceived as being safe on here is going to be horribly wrong.

 

[Cosmic77]

Sure, I mean if that is the hope you want to hold on to then fine but I still hold to the fact that they don’t have any form of a shot because their inclusion is completely unpresidented. WFT was a previous gen game that had established impact like Rosalina. Corrin along with Lucas, Roy, and Greninja are the main characters of their game not side characters.

And really if you guys want to make fan rosters and wishlist rosters that’s also fine but I’m here to make an accurate prediction so I’m going to swing a different way with the assumptions that have to be made for their inclusion.

Just to point something out, Greninja is not the main character of X and Y. Calem and Serena take that role. Assuming you even chose Froakie as your starter, you could use Froakie to capture another Pokemon and then ditch him for the rest of the game.


To be blunt, it kinda sounds like you're finding random reasons to brush off the examples I gave you. Yes, the Champions aren't the main characters, nor are they characters from a game that had an established impact before development started. But regardless, do you honestly believe either of those reasons would stop Sakurai from looking at the Champions?

"Wow, these guys look interesting. They each have their own weapon and skill, and they seem like they'd make unique additions. Wait... Hold on a second. You're telling me they ain't the main character? Well, there goes their chances of ever being playable."

"Nope. Can't add 'em. Even though BotW is shaping up to be one of the most unique and groundbreaking Zelda games since OoT, I have to wait until the game officially releases before I can even think about adding them."

Obviously the Champions have some hurdles to overcome, but I don't think you can just write them off, especially since they have three major things going for them - relevancy, debuting in a groundbreaking game that helped push forward the Switch, and obvious moveset potential.

Wasn't Twilight Princess also a huge deal back in Brawl? Yet the newcomer from that game wasn't Midna as most speculated, but Toon Link (And Toon Zelda was planned) from Wind Waker. The most TP got where redesign's for the main Zelda cast. I don't know if I would put as much stock onto the Champions but I guess we'll see how things go.

Seeing how Toon Link was a semi-clone, I'd imagine that Sakurai envisioned making Toon Zelda a clone as well. Personally, I feel like adding a clone newcomer is a completely different situation from adding a full-fledged newcomer, as it requires far less work and should realistically be less of a priority than other characters.

Doesn't provide any more info on why Midna didn't get in though. Worst-case scenario, the Champions fail to get in Smash like every other Zelda character before them.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

The most likely character for this game imo is Paper Mario
But still far from a shoe-in, since he has to share the spotlight with Cap'n Toad and possibly the Spin-Off duo

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Wasn't Twilight Princess also a huge deal back in Brawl? Yet the newcomer from that game wasn't Midna as most speculated, but Toon Link (And Toon Zelda was planned) from Wind Waker. The most TP got where redesign's for the main Zelda cast. I don't know if I would put as much stock onto the Champions but I guess we'll see how things go.

While that is true Brawl is also over 10 years old, for all we know sakurai could've changed his mind on adding Zelda characters beyond the wielders of the triforce

 

[majorasmaskfan]

I had always wanted the other races to get representation, I thought the best way was child link with masks but rip transformations they will not be missed. The deku aren't relevant so I don't see them ever being playable

So id want a zora character > goron character > ruto character

Id also like an actual women Gerudo playable but they are just human and we have ganondorf hopefully with a new moveset post botw.

 

[Curious Villager]

Seeing how Toon Link was a semi-clone, I'd imagine that Sakurai envisioned making Toon Zelda a clone as well. Personally, I feel like adding a clone newcomer is a completely different situation from adding a full-fledged newcomer, as it requires far less work and should realistically be less of a priority than other characters.

Doesn't provide any more info on why Midna didn't get in though. Worst-case scenario, the Champions fail to get in Smash like every other Zelda character before them.

I'd imagine the semi-clones from Brawl where still planned to be included as the roster was decided since they where more developed than the ones in Melee and especially Smash 4. Just low on the priority list in case there was extra time. (Especially in the case of Toon Link considering he also had his own stage that looks like they spend a bit of time working on)

But like you said, that doesn't explain why Midna (or maybe even Zant) wasn't considered at all despite the massive success of Twilight Princess.

 

[Garteam]

The big thing the champions have in their way is longevity. We're probably never going to see the Champions again in a mainline Zelda game, which is a pretty big mark against them. I imagine that's the same reason Sakurai avoided Midna for Brawl and Ghiraham for Smash 4, they're really cool and popular characters but its hard to justify one-offs in a franchise with a consistent (yet small) cast.

 

[osby]

But like you said, that doesn't explain why Midna wasn't considered at all despite the massive success of Twilight Princess.

Just my guess but it might be hard to make Midna playable if she's not together with Wolf Link and Link was already in the roster as a separete character.

 

[Curious Villager]

Just my guess but it might be hard to make Midna playable if she's not together with Wolf Link and Link was already in the roster as a separete character.

But so where Link and Young Link back in Melee though, they where both based off their appearance in Ocarina of Time. Even one of the event matches reflected on that.

 

[Jak_spoon]

To be blunt, it kinda sounds like you're finding random reasons to brush of the examples I gave you. Yes, the Champions aren't the main characters, nor are they characters from a game that had an established impact before development started. But regardless, do you honestly believe either of those reasons would stop Sakurai from looking at the Champions?

Au contraire mon ami, I'm not using random reasons to brush off your examples, I'm giving you actual patterns that Sakurai has used multiple games to show you why I don't hold any stock for the champions. And yes, I do honestly believe all of the reasons I presented would stop Sakurai from looking at the champions because it has stopped him with other characters time and time again.

Edit: osby "Just my guess but it might be hard to make Midna playable if she's not together with Wolf Link and Link was already in the roster as a separete character."

That is exactly my thought too.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

While that is true Brawl is also over 10 years old, for all we know sakurai could've changed his mind on adding Zelda characters beyond the wielders of the triforce

I also think the promotion, hype and critical reception of TP doesn't equal BOTW at all. BOTW completely redid the series where as TP was a glorified OOT. Not saying it wasn't popular and big but BOTW is defintely the biggest Zelda game since OOT.

That's why I personally will give up hope if Zelda once again gets snubbed for newcomers.

ALSO with the whole Sakurai not putting in one time appearances, I don't think that's his logic, because you never know if a character is a one time appearance. Sakurai doesn't have the hindsight we have looking back. Sheik was added into Smash without knowing they'd return, and I know a lot of people tie that into Zelda, but even Ganondorf was added in at his first appearance. For all Sakurai could have thought Ganondorf was just an OOT thing (it was supposed to he the first game in the timeline). I understand Zelda is a little more formulaic in that Sakurai could probably tell Midna would not return etc, but just some thoughts.

 

[osby]

But so where Link and Young Link back in Melee though, they where both based off their appearance in Ocarina of Time. Even one of the even matches reflected on that.

I know but in Brawl there wasn't any such two versions of the same character in different slots. Then again, Dr. Mario was planned to appear in the game, so I'm probably wrong.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

One thing I'd say about Zelda is that it's only recently got the full spin-off treatment with Link's apperance in Mario Kart 8 and of course Hyrule Warriors.

Beforehand it was nothing but Japanese Comedy Games starring Tingle and an Asset flip to sell Zappers

 

[Skyblade12]

Edit: osby "Just my guess but it might be hard to make Midna playable if she's not together with Wolf Link and Link was already in the roster as a separete character."

That is exactly my thought too.

As are Mario and Dr. Mario, Samus and Zero Suit Samus, or Link and Toon Link (and Young Link, once).

 

[Pacack]

Question for everyone. What is the likelihood of two new Mario characters this game?

64:
Melee:
Brawl: None, but can be argued.
SSB4:()

More often than not, we've gotten more than one Mario newcomer each Smash game. The exception to this is Brawl, though we did still get Wario's Mario series design, which can be seen as a partial newcomer for the series.

The extended Mario universe could also be considered, which would give us and , with a mean of about 3 Mario universe newcomers each game. This would extend to potential picks like Dixie, King K. Rool, Ashley, and Kamek.

Is there anything to draw conclusions from there? Should we expect 3 +/- 1 Mario universe characters? Am I looking too far into this to find patterns that don't exist?

Find out in our next episode of Super Smash Bros speculation!

 

[Cosmic77]

I also think the promotion, hype and critical reception of TP doesn't equal BOTW at all. BOTW completely redid the series where as TP was a glorified OOT. Not saying it wasn't popular and big but BOTW is defintely the biggest Zelda game since OOT.

That's why I personally will give up hope if Zelda once again gets snubbed for newcomers.

That's why I'm putting so much fuel into BotW. If that game can't get a newcomer, good luck making your case for a future Zelda game.

You know, it's pretty sad that something as incredible as BotW can come out, but no one can be optimistic about a series as popular as Zelda getting a newcomer because Sakurai has been so reserved in the past. That should tell us just how much we desperately need to get a Zelda newcomer now. Literally anything would open the door to future characters getting in Smash.

 

[Jak_spoon]

I also think the promotion, hype and critical reception of TP doesn't equal BOTW at all. BOTW completely redid the series where as TP was a glorified OOT. Not saying it wasn't popular and big but BOTW is defintely the biggest Zelda game since OOT.

That's why I personally will give up hope if Zelda once again gets snubbed for newcomers.

TP was bigger than OoT. Aonuma has gone on record saying that his goal for BotW was to try and outsell TP. Its one of the reasons he was disappointed with SS and decided to rethink the Zelda formula. And why I believe TP remained Links main form in Smash 4 because TP was The highest selling Zelda game at that point.

 

[Pacack]

That's why I'm putting so much fuel into BotW. If that game can't get a newcomer, good luck making your case for a future Zelda game.

You know, it's pretty sad that something as incredible as BotW can come out, but no one can be optimistic about a series as popular as Zelda getting a newcomer because Sakurai has been so reserved in the past. That should tell us just how much we desperately need to get a Zelda newcomer now. Literally anything would open the door to future characters getting in Smash.

Honestly, I'd argue that the source of our pessimism isn't the performance of the series, but rather the lack of an obvious character to rally behind. All the frontrunners are either one-offs, other versions of the triforce holders, or Impa, who alternates between a ninja or an old woman...or an old woman ninja, in BotW.

If there was a character we could agree upon to represent the series, then we'd be better off.

 

[SonicMario]

It's not from me, but I've forgotten who to credit.

That was me heh. I just thought of the name for silly fun. But if it becomes the term most widespread in referring to it. I will be happy to have had that kind of effect on Speculation heh.

 

[Curious Villager]

Honestly, I'd argue that the source of our pessimism isn't the performance of the series, but rather the lack of an obvious character to rally behind. All the frontrunners are either one-offs, other versions of the triforce holders, or Impa, who is either a ninja or an old woman...or an old woman ninja, in BotW.

If there was a character we could agree upon to represent the series, then we'd be better off.

Or Tingle.

But yeah, I would love to see the series finally get a newcomer too, but considering the circumstances and past outcomes, (Heck, I'm not even expecting Ganondorf to get a rework outside of a BotW based visual redesign, at least nothing drastic) I can't really help but be a bit pessimistic as far as the Zelda franchise is concerned...

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I decided to create a new version of my prediction roster due to new leaks and my thoughts.

• I still think Captain Toad (or Toad in general) is the most likely Mario candidate. He is easily the most popular and famous Mario character who is not yet playable.
• Dixie Kong is way more likely than K. Rool. She has actually appeared in recent games.
• Here is where it gets interesting. We haven't had a new Zelda character that isn't a clone since Melee even though the other characters have significantly changed. I think this game will be the one to put Zelda in the spotlight. I wanted to add 2 new characters so I picked 2 that are recurring and have moveset potential. Impa and Tingle. I know there is much debate over how Impa would be in Smash due to how much her character changes in each game but characters in Smash are never replications of a singular game. Impa in Smash could use assets from all kinds of Zelda games.
• The Ridley/Simon Belmont leak is looking convincing to me and if anyone is going to start a hype train it will be Ridley. Also a reveal at E3 would coincide nicely with Metroid Prime 4.
• Bandana Dee is the obvious next Kirby rep and would also be hyped up. He is part of the main cast now and deserves a place in Smash.
• Wolf should return, many people want him back and his appearance in Star Fox Zero backs him up.
• I seriously think we could potentially see 2 new Pokemon this time. It's not like it hasn't happened before. As to who though? Probably Gen 7 but honestly I have no idea. Decidueye? Mimikyu? Lycanroc? Eevee?
• Takamaru makes perfect sense for the next retro pick. Sakurai has shown interest in him before so the odds are in his favour.
• We are going to get a new Fire Emblem rep, I think it is pretty obvious. As to who? I know next to nothing about Fire Emblem so I would have to say Celica or Lyn.
• Rhythm Heaven should really get a character. I think Rhythm Girl would be the most interesting choice. A character with a moveset based around dancing sounds really interesting.
• Rex and Pyra are pretty obvious choices for Xenoblade, I think they have a high chance of being playable.
• Spring-Man may be from a newer series but I feel it is possible Nintendo may have requested for Sakurai to add him. This would overall really help Arms sell.
• Onto 3rd parties. I never really know with these but I think 3 is a good number. Like I said before I think the Ridley/Simon Belmont leak is quite possible and Simon seems to be popular so I added him to the roster. Rayman also still seems like a very obvious choice to me. As for another candidate? Maybe Crash? I really don't know.

If anyone has any criticism let me know.

For my thoughts on this

Corrects

+ Captain toad: if there's another Mario rep it's him by far he's gotten a game around the era of the roster making

+ Dixie kong: either her or funky Kong will be a new de rep however....(go to wrong section.)

+ Ridley: while I'm not holding my breath based on what sakurai said after he revealed Ridley reveal in smash 4 but this could be the villager scenario of smash switch and as for the game FAQ leak there is some elements of truth (not holding my breath for that rumor) https://sourcegaming.info/2016/01/21/sakuraixnomuraparttwo/
Sakurai did get inspired by castlevania so he may have considered Simon Belmont during the roster making of smash switch and this was in 2016.
The second is a wal-mart Canada leak that involves that metroid prime 4 will be talked about at E3
(But if another rep for metroid it would be sylux)

+ bandana dee: yea probably as likely as the Inklings because the fans want him and probably got a ton of votes in the ballot and probably a 1/4 to half of the newcomers are based of how we voted on that.

+ takamaru: yea out of all the retro rep he most likely and this is Japan's most wanted and plus little mac was USA most wanted and his region was confused by his conclusion this will probably be the backwards scenario

Plus the only other retro reps I can think of is excite biker and Mach rider.

+ Pokémon rep(s): this is always a tradition in smash of new playable Pokémon decidueye has the biggest chance for this one gen 7 rep, grass starter to fill the triangle with charizard and greninja, also a ghost type and that type was wanted in smash, it would be are first bird/archer focused newcomer. If there's a second either Incineroar or eevee base of the leak

+ Rex/Pyra: no way sakurai not putting in another xenoblade rep plus he said a fan of it

+ Rhythm heaven rep:this will probably be are "What the heck" character of the game and the chorus men in smash 4 was actually going to happen the reason he cut them is the same reason ice climbers failed to make it.

+ fire emblem rep: yep your right this is another tradition in smash just like with Pokémon they always add a new rep from this series.

Side note

For third party we got shovel knight, crash and...

Believe it or not sora from kingdom hearts may be more likely than we think.

Wrong

- no king k rool: your actually wrong about king k rool he has the biggest chance yet for smash switch for for three reasons
1 the kremlings were in smash run
2 the mii costume of the king so shows he has heart for him
3 and this is the biggest reason the ballot he's probably number 2 on it based of the fan versions of the ballot he was number 1 on almost all of those and like I said 1/4 or half the newcomers will probably come from the ballot

And a rumor was this is going to be the best roster yet king k rool fits that easily

- impa/tingle: you chose character I believe are not in the new Zelda game plus they haven't added a new Zelda rep since melee

- Spring man: almost everybody keeps making this mistake arms was not around during the completion of the roster it was completed in 2016 the only way spring man makes it If they made some changes to the roster during development

Oh by the way couldn't spring man get the bowser jr alts treatment so we get other choosable boxers?

That's my thoughts anyway