Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MoonlitIllusion]

Simon Belmet? I am not a Castalvania guy, but I can see people's reasoning..
I mean I heard his early games were popular, and was on a Nintendo console.

Also it seems people are forgetting one Pokemon that can potentially be in Smash...
View attachment 145134

I feel like being another electric types is really gonna hurt it's chances tbh, I wouldn't be upset if they got in tho

 

[Roberk]

Japanese heros with silly hair and swords popped up a fair bit in Smash4, and I think people are just yearning for more creative, interesting archetypes.

But they aren't Japanese. FE is largely based off of Europe. Marth's name comes from Mars, the Roman god of war. Awakening's stages were coliseums and arenas, heavily inspired by Roman gladiatorial arenas with the mechanical platforms and aesthetic. The 3DS stage, Arena Ferox, is literally just Latin for "ferocious arena". Roy's continent, Elibe, is shaped like Europe and is very Greco-Roman as well in the design. Countries in Elibe like Lycia, Ilia, and Etruria all share names with places in Europe. Other games have Scandinavian influences and a story that is basically Game of Thrones (the original book and the game, FE4, actually came out the same year.)

FE is mostly only "anime" because it is of course developed in Japan and can be found using Japanese art styles. The roster in Smash 4 is just scratching the surface level in terms of interesting designs, it doesn't mean the series doesn't have more to offer. Just wait until we get better Lords and mounted units.

 

[ColietheGoalie]

But they aren't Japanese. FE is largely based off of Europe. Marth's name comes from Mars, the Roman god of war. Awakening's stages were coliseums and arenas, heavily inspired by Roman gladiatorial arenas with the mechanical platforms and aesthetic. The 3DS stage, Arena Ferox, is literally just Latin for "ferocious arena". Roy's continent, Elibe, is shaped like Europe and is very Greco-Roman as well in the design. Countries in Elibe like Lycia, Ilia, and Etruria all share names with places in Europe. Other games have Scandinavian influences and a story that is basically Game of Thrones (the original book and the game, FE4, actually came out the same year.)

FE is mostly only "anime" because it is of course developed in Japan and can be found using Japanese art styles. The roster in Smash 4 is just scratching the surface level in terms of interesting designs, it doesn't mean the series doesn't have more to offer. Just wait until we get better Lords and mounted units.

I think they still follow a lot Japanese design concepts incorporated (and the fact that half of these characters don’t have English VA doesn’t help the perception).

To be clear, I don’t think the “anime swordsmen” argument has a leg to stand on. I can just see where people would wish for more unique character ideas (even from within FE), and just aren’t articulating that desire in a very reasonable way.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

But why can't he just have hard hitting moves with swords? I understand your point about magic, although I think magic can be done in a way that feels powerful, but just because he uses technique doesn't mean he can't have hard hitting moves like Ike. Ike didn't feel hard hitting at all in PoR but it worked in smash.

The Sword of Sages is designed more for stabbing and technique. It's not a broadsword. It's a longsword. It's thin too. This isn't the kind of sword that can be swung like a club and make sense. Look at Nightmare from Soul Calibur if you want that kind of moveset. The sword itself is very important here too. He needs a new one first, one that is workable with the ideal type of moveset. Some moves can be replaced, of course. Up Air is not a super strong attack, just having reasonable knockback. Even the Sword of Sages works fine for that. Ganondorf(WW) has two swords and fight super differently, to the point that those swords are not feasible as an option.

Not to mention Ganondorfs were already some of the hardest hitting attacks in zelda. And there's absolutely no reason to think his moves wouldn't flow if he used a sword. Most characters are based off animations from their games and they flow fine.

Actually, that was more Ganon(who always sent you flying with his dual swords). Ganondorf's attacks were enhanced by the Triforce of Power, not so much the sword being used. Doesn't mean a long thing blade would make sense to be sending characters flying far super easily. It's not even possible for it to remotely replace some attacks, like his Forward Tilt, which works best as a kick type.

Maybe he throws a punch here and there, but his primary weapon is usually a sword. And they could just swap what his sword looks like just like the rest of his design. Use the oot sword in melee, and the tp sword in brawl and beyond. Simple as that.

His primary weapon is only really a sword in WW, which he doesn't use till late at the end. He doesn't have a primary weapon in TP as he simply stole the weapon to basically show off his power and inability to be killed. He attacks physically throughout the game and shows a bit of vague magic as well. And then he transforms into Beast Ganon and knocks you around a lot. Not even Puppet Zelda, who he controls, is designed as a huge hitter. For that matter, he's slamming into you as Puppet Ganon in Wind Waker and shows no real magic usage to any real degree in that game. He's pure physical. Including punches. It's a canon thing for him to punch. He definitely should be keeping his punches, even with some move changes.

As far as the stolen sword, I really don't see the issue. His sword was gone obviously because he had been captured and they don't let prisoners keep their weapons, so he killed a sage and took one. Is that really so untrue to his character that it would be weird to have in smash? If anything it fits his origin as king of the gerudo thieves.

He doesn't have an actual Sword in OOT. Ganon, his giant counterpart somehow does. But Ganondorf never used a sword once in that game. The tech demo might be what you're thinking of, which was used as the model, and actually is the only sword that would fit his character design in Smash if you want to actually keep the point of him being a powerful warlord in Smash.

I'm not sure how handling multiple weapons represents courage. I think it just represents link like swords and magic represents ganondorf. I think you need to replay the oot Ganondorf fight because he was not a fist fighter. Not even a little bit. The one attack people point to as a punch is the shockwave, which is mainly a magic attack and is also not in smash.

Except this is how Link is represented in Smash. He is the holder of Courage and has many tools to fight. It's impossible for him to show literal Courage within the context of a fighting game without a more proper story mode. So they chose him to represent his other major iconic design, being a master of weapons/items. Zelda is the holder of Wisdom and the magic user of Smash(and eventually the de facto Zelda-series Magic User). Ganondorf is the holder of Power and literally is a powerhouse. He's the strongest character physically.

Finally, if ganondorf is portrayed as using mainly magic and swords in zelda, how is it sakurai's place to say "nah, that doesn't represent this character well" and change how he fights to fit his opinion? He has gone on record saying that he does his best to faithfully recreate characters like they are in their game. If ganondorf using swords and magic means he doesn't represent power then I guess the Zelda developers don't want him to represent power. It's not sakurai's place to change that.

Only in OOT is he primarily using magic. TP doesn't show it as his primary weapon(because it's not even his weapon, as he never had one in OOT either. WW is the first game he has a weapon, which appear to be variants of the regular Gerudo Swords). WW has him primarily using physical attacks(punches, backhanding, choking) and he eventually pulls out his swrods only in the final battle. To be a primary weapon, it has to be the most used and most important. It's not in either TP or WW. The only actual accurate point is that magic is something he heavily used in OOT. And it's clear that his artwork shows he absolutely will knock someone's lights out, so that already was intended at one point for the character and his characterization. All that happened is it came up naturally in a fighting game.

Ganondorf is first and foremost considered an evil wizard, and he uses swords primarily as well. He does not punch link in Zelda, so why should he punch him in smash? And maybe if you stretched it you could make the argument that he should have half of his moves be punching and kicking, but it doesn't excuse having no sword or magic at all.

...Wut. He literally knocks Link for a loop in WW(before pulling out his two swords, even. Which was a one-fight wonder, where he physically assaulted Link more than once in the same game. His primary thing was physical blows with only using his body in some way. Even Puppet Ganon fights more like that. A good swordfight is just for fun and one of the things that is expected out of a Zelda game, again, for fun. With sword fights being quite common in the series, well). He never once primarily used a sword(magic, yes. In OOT. But otherwise physical blows in TP and WW were more of his main style. The Sword of Sages was used first in order to add insult to injury. It was more for symbolism than anything else).

And this is meaningless anyway because there's no reason he would be based on captain falcon if he was new in brawl anymore than girahim would be based on marth or Greninja would be a sheik clone, even if he was for some reason given a punch based movesets. Thank you for giving me a real argument though.

He barely got in Melee due to circumstances. His chances of getting in Smash beyond that weren't high to begin with. Sakurai never intended for the character to get in. It wasn't even really on his mind to begin with. Which may also be part of why he keeps him a clone, as he's not high priority to heavily update with new moves. He got a bit in Brawl using the Flame Choke, inspired by WW and TP's chokeholding moves. It was just luck he had a workable model. Without that? There's a pretty fair chance he'd be no more than a trophy. We'd probably have seen WW Ganondorf if anyone, due to more fighting potential. TP Ganondorf fit the clone mold better, so that's what was used to update him.

 

[Gumzilla]

Has anyone else noticed how thin the line between friend and foe is in the Kirby universe?

 

[Pacack]

I feel like the Ganondorf argument largely comes down to whether you include only OoT as a reference (as would have been done in Melee) or if you include his other appearances as well.

In OoT, Ganondorf is almost entirely reliant on magic, summoning darkness and electricity, levitating, transforming the room into a different one for battle, and sending shockwaves into the ground. He is capable of fighting with his fists, but it's clear that his preferred method of combat is magic.

In contrast, WW Ganondorf practically doesn't use magic at all, instead using brute strength and dual swords.

TP Ganondorf uses some magic, but also uses brute strength and a sword to fight when not in Beast form.

SSB Ganondorf represents WW and TP Ganondorf pretty well, though it could be argued that he should use his sword more often. However, it's fair to say that SSB Ganondorf's fighting style is entirely different from OoT Ganondorf's.

 

[Pakky]

Why not just make Ganondorf a big amalgamation of all of the Ganons and Ganondorfs HW's Ganondorf is a good example.

Has anyone else noticed how thin the line between friend and foe is in the Kirby universe?

Dark Matter (Outside of Gooey?) haven't blurred the line but that's kinda it.

Oh and Galtaca Knight though I mean he's not really a villain.

 

[SamuXCI]

I think the “anime” complaint is just a badly expressed wish for less humanoid characters. Hence why Pokemon doesn’t get roped into it despite actually having anime tie-ins.

Japanese heros with silly hair and swords popped up a fair bit in Smash4, and I think people are just yearning for more creative, interesting archetypes.

This is exactly it for me. More big headed expressive mascots and beastly villains are personally what I want. I also think fixing the soulless manikin faces of the anime styled characters would make them more inviting to play for me. Smash trailer Palutena vs in game Palutena....Just woof. I thought Mega Man and ROB were the only robots on the roster

 

[Pakky]

This is exactly it for me. More big headed expressive mascots and beastly villains are personally what I want. I also think fixing the soulless manikin faces of the anime styled characters would make them more inviting to play for me. Smash trailer Palutena vs in game Palutena....Just woof. I thought Mega Man and ROB were the only robots on the roster

See now this is more of an understandable version of the argument I can agree with. Which is why I love dudes like DK and Diddy so much. The eyes popping out and Diddy Kong's exploding gun are the best. Oh and Dedede, oh man he's so goofy its great!

 

[Troykv]

But they aren't Japanese. FE is largely based off of Europe. Marth's name comes from Mars, the Roman god of war. Awakening's stages were coliseums and arenas, heavily inspired by Roman gladiatorial arenas with the mechanical platforms and aesthetic. The 3DS stage, Arena Ferox, is literally just Latin for "ferocious arena". Roy's continent, Elibe, is shaped like Europe and is very Greco-Roman as well in the design. Countries in Elibe like Lycia, Ilia, and Etruria all share names with places in Europe. Other games have Scandinavian influences and a story that is basically Game of Thrones (the original book and the game, FE4, actually came out the same year.)

FE is mostly only "anime" because it is of course developed in Japan and can be found using Japanese art styles. The roster in Smash 4 is just scratching the surface level in terms of interesting designs, it doesn't mean the series doesn't have more to offer. Just wait until we get better Lords and mounted units.

I think they still follow a lot Japanese design concepts incorporated (and the fact that half of these characters don’t have English VA doesn’t help the perception).

To be clear, I don’t think the “anime swordsmen” argument has a leg to stand on. I can just see where people would wish for more unique character ideas (even from within FE), and just aren’t articulating that desire in a very reasonable way.

Yes! There are still many ideas to go for a creative moveset for a FE Character... they just need to avoid the "anime swordsmen" thing and take advantage of other concepts in the franchises.

 

[Pakky]

Yes! There are still many ideas to go for a creative moveset for a FE Character... they just need to avoid the "anime swordsmen" thing and take advantage of other concepts in the franchises.

Which is pretty much the only problem I have with them. Robin is a start though.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Which is pretty much the only problem I have with them. Robin is a start though.

Followed by Corrin, I presume? His Manakete powers are used in approximately 90% of his movepool, while his sword takes up the rest of that measly 10%. If they continue to follow the formula for unique attack styles, we might just get someone fresh, someone completely swordless.

 

[Pakky]

Followed by Corrin, I presume? His Manakete powers are used in approximately 90% of his movepool, while his sword takes up the rest of that measly 10%. If they continue to follow the formula for unique attack styles, we might just get someone fresh, someone completely swordless.

Yes, though I did think their ability to pin opponents was a little much, nevertheless they are certainly on the more unique side of things.

And I hope so.

 

[osby]

Followed by Corrin, I presume? His Manakete powers are used in approximately 90% of his movepool, while his sword takes up the rest of that measly 10%. If they continue to follow the formula for unique attack styles, we might just get someone fresh, someone completely swordless.

I mean, if you disclude Lucina and Roy,(and counters) they don't even fight that similarly, even Marth and Ike. Chances are that if we get a character who doesn't use swords, they'll probably not be from the Fire Emblem.

 

[BlondeLombax]

I mean, if you disclude Lucina and Roy,(and counters) they don't even fight that similarly, even Marth and Ike. Chances are that if we get a character who doesn't use swords, they'll probably not be from the Fire Emblem.

Yeah, that might just be the case. I've only ever played Awakening, so my knowledge on the cast of the franchise is limited.
When it comes to the swordless, though, I've seen plenty of different, unique weapons wielders, from Bandana Dee's spear to Goku's staff (no, not that one, I mean from Yuyuki), and even Cranky Kong with his cane. We could use a few more bludgeons in the series.

 

[osby]

Yeah, that might just be the case. I've only ever played Awakening, so my knowledge on the cast of the franchise is limited.
When it comes to the swordless, though, I've seen plenty of different, unique weapons wielders, from Bandana Dee's spear to Goku's staff (no, not that one, I mean from Yuyuki), and even Cranky Kong with his cane. We could use a few more bludgeons in the series.

They are a lot of characters who doesn't use swords in Fire Emblem, though Smash always seems to go for main characters, whose main weapons are more often than not, swords.

Yeah, weirdly enough, there wasn't really any weapon user in the last game without swords. Bayonetta, Mii Gunner, Palutena, Dark Pit and that's it. I don't know if you can include Mega Man and Bowser Jr.'s artillery to it. (Also Zapper user from Duck Hunt)

To be honest, from a game design perspective, there is probably not that big of a difference between swords and bludgeons, they are both disjointed hitboxes but it'd still cool to see them and other weapons, I agree.

 

[Delzethin]

FE is mostly only "anime" because it is of course developed in Japan and can be found using Japanese art styles. The roster in Smash 4 is just scratching the surface level in terms of interesting designs, it doesn't mean the series doesn't have more to offer. Just wait until we get better Lords and mounted units.

Yeah, that's the thing. There's far more to Fire Emblem than simple swordsmen, and the newer titles have begun dipping into that. It says something that our two newest (non-clone) FE characters in Smash are a hybrid zoner who wields swords and magic with equal importance and a half-dragon shapeshifter who morphs parts of their body for over half of their attacks. I'm fairly confident that at least one of FE16's main protagonists will have something unique about them that'll put them in discussion once DLC rolls around. Maybe through wielding a unique weapon type like lances or beaststones or whatnot, maybe through some new mechanic.

At its core, the "anime swordsman" talk, while it may have been a critique before, has devolved into an easy way to smear characters that certain parts of the fanbase think shouldn't be as important as they are. They resent these new upstarts who, in their eyes, are stealing the show from their favorites who deserve it more.

Boils down to people continuing to think Smash is some almighty judgment of who matters and who doesn't, even though Sakurai has shown he doesn't intend it that way.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Yeah, that's the thing. There's far more to Fire Emblem than simple swordsmen, and the newer titles have begun dipping into that. It says something that our two newest (non-clone) FE characters in Smash are a hybrid zoner who wields swords and magic with equal importance and a half-dragon shapeshifter who morphs parts of their body for over half of their attacks. I'm fairly confident that at least one of FE16's main protagonists will have something unique about them that'll put them in discussion once DLC rolls around. Maybe through wielding a unique weapon type like lances or beaststones or whatnot, maybe through some new mechanic.

At its core, the "anime swordsman" talk, while it may have been a critique before, has devolved into an easy way to smear characters that certain parts of the fanbase think shouldn't be as important as they are. They resent these new upstarts who, in their eyes, are stealing the show from their favorites who deserve it more.

Boils down to people continuing to think Smash is some almighty judgment of who matters and who doesn't, even though Sakurai has shown he doesn't intend it that way.

The way I see it, it's likely that most of these people think that Sakurai has complete control over what gets in and what's left out. He may be the director of the franchise, sure, but his power isn't absolute: there's all kinds of different people at SORA (and Namco, if they're involved) that pitch, accept, and deny ideas, which can alter the game in ways we can't comprehend until release. It's like a community project in deciding what to put in a public park, be it playground equipment or even a potted plant, all for the sake of public interest.

Also, big fan!

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Yeah, that's the thing. There's far more to Fire Emblem than simple swordsmen, and the newer titles have begun dipping into that. It says something that our two newest (non-clone) FE characters in Smash are a hybrid zoner who wields swords and magic with equal importance and a half-dragon shapeshifter who morphs parts of their body for over half of their attacks. I'm fairly confident that at least one of FE16's main protagonists will have something unique about them that'll put them in discussion once DLC rolls around. Maybe through wielding a unique weapon type like lances or beaststones or whatnot, maybe through some new mechanic.

At its core, the "anime swordsman" talk, while it may have been a critique before, has devolved into an easy way to smear characters that certain parts of the fanbase think shouldn't be as important as they are. They resent these new upstarts who, in their eyes, are stealing the show from their favorites who deserve it more.

Boils down to people continuing to think Smash is some almighty judgment of who matters and who doesn't, even though Sakurai has shown he doesn't intend it that way.

Or, hear me out, it's genuine critique on the representation on a series that offers completely unique playstyles but doesn't use that potential as of yet in a game where uniqueness is deemed important.

 

[osby]

Or, hear me out, it's genuine critique on the representation on a series that offers completely unique playstyles but doesn't use that potential as of yet in a game where uniqueness is deemed important.

If you don't count Roy and Lucina, they all fight differently. Chrom even rejected because he cannot.

 

[Polan]

I don't get why they would use "anime" to single stuff like FE and Xenoblade out. Doesn't Pokemon have one of the longest-running animes ever, with many of its characters being designed in "anime" styles? Or even Zelda, which can exude some "anime" tropes and designs at times.

Also, why is it bad? Are they against a very generalized art-style? None of the "anime" characters in Smash really exhibit the bad tropes of "anime" (other than stuff in Corrin's originating game, but that's a whole other deal.)

Honestly, it seems like a scapegoat argument for people that are mad that their franchises didn't get as many reps as they wanted.

Western Pride/ diet Xenophobia

You'd be amazed at the amount influential anime industry veterans people that did so much for animation and video games that worked there butts off skillfully drawings these incredible animated sequences only to be ignored or insulted by some American kid on the internet because "lol anime"

Yoichi Kotabe who worked a ton on anime with Toei and veterans like Miyazaki in the 60s is very important to Nintendo history. He modernized Mario and Links design and was the main inspiration for Wind Waker Art style.

There's some great irony when people complain about "anime" in Super Smash Bros. despite every single game being developed by a Japanese company and Japanese-developed games are heavily prioritized as a result.

Like what the hell are you expecting here?

man, did people seriously think i was bashing anime just because i wanted barbarian simon? like c'mon my main is THE anime swordsman and some of my faves send the anti-anime crowd into a frothing mess. i don't dislike anime, i just want some more visual diversity among the cast.

 

[PSIGuy]

I've hoped they would change up the FE characters movesets in terms of counters and aesthetics for a while now. Like Ike using an axe for his Smash attacks (same hitbox/damage, new model) and having a different move instead of counter. Maybe something more like DK's headbutt, a move with super armor that doesn't prevent damage but instead attacks through it (Ike isn't built as the "dodge and riposte" type in Smash). Roy getting a ranged counter that works similar to Palutena's Autoreticle when hit by a projectile (a delay based on how far away they are followed by an explosion at their location with random offset). That sort of thing.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I wonder if the hero of FE Switch will be an axe or Lance user just to make sure they get in Smash.

 

[Arrei]

This is exactly it for me. More big headed expressive mascots and beastly villains are personally what I want. I also think fixing the soulless manikin faces of the anime styled characters would make them more inviting to play for me. Smash trailer Palutena vs in game Palutena....Just woof. I thought Mega Man and ROB were the only robots on the roster

Oh, man, yes. I hadn't even realized how much I hated the deadpan faces of the animesque characters until you put it into words. Heck, the FE characters even still look soulless in their Warriors game, I don't understand why Smash went with such un-expressive faces for anime characters, who are like 90% focused on the face. Link, Zelda, and the Pits look vibrant, why don't the rest of them?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Boils down to people continuing to think Smash is some almighty judgment of who matters and who doesn't, even though Sakurai has shown he doesn't intend it that way.

Exactly. This is something that everyone in the fanbase should keep in mind.

 

[osby]

Oh, man, yes. I hadn't even realized how much I hated the deadpan faces of the animesque characters until you put it into words. Heck, the FE characters even still look soulless in their Warriors game, I don't understand why Smash went with such un-expressive faces for anime characters, who are like 90% focused on the face. Link, Zelda, and the Pits look vibrant, why don't the rest of them?

Because it's hard to do expressive facial expressions while keeping characters semi-realistic, especially if the game can use limited amount of data for models, like in Smash.

Pit, Dark Pit, Link and Zelda actually have pretty stylistic faces, so it's easy to make their faces show emotions. Most of the more realistic characters can't... which actually isn't limited with Fire Emblem characters or Palutena. Zero Suit Samus and Bayonetta also have same problem.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

If you don't count Roy and Lucina, they all fight differently. Chrom even rejected because he cannot.

Relative to the astounding potential FE can offer, like Lances, Axes, Daggers, Bows, Staves and all kinds of magic, mounted units, dancers and manaketes, there's not a lot of that represented in the current FE line-up,

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Honestly, if anything, I'd take issue with the amount of "proportionate" human designs in Smash 4 before I'd complain about anime characters. At least in terms of newcomers compared to Brawl. Which, come to think of it, really had a huge amount of visual diversity among them which I kinda liked.

Relative to the astounding potential FE can offer, like Lances, Axes, Daggers, Bows, Staves and all kinds of magic, mounted units, dancers and manaketes, there's not a lot of that represented in the current FE line-up,

That's because most FE main characters use swords, so logically you'd get a lot of Lords with swords in Smash.

 

[vaanrose]

I feel like the Ganondorf argument largely comes down to whether you include only OoT as a reference (as would have been done in Melee) or if you include his other appearances as well.

In OoT, Ganondorf is almost entirely reliant on magic, summoning darkness and electricity, levitating, transforming the room into a different one for battle, and sending shockwaves into the ground. He is capable of fighting with his fists, but it's clear that his preferred method of combat is magic.

In contrast, WW Ganondorf practically doesn't use magic at all, instead using brute strength and dual swords.

TP Ganondorf uses some magic, but also uses brute strength and a sword to fight when not in Beast form.

SSB Ganondorf represents WW and TP Ganondorf pretty well, though it could be argued that he should use his sword more often. However, it's fair to say that SSB Ganondorf's fighting style is entirely different from OoT Ganondorf's.

I see it as literally the exact opposite of this, lol. Ganondorf didn't even own a sword in OoT. He was beyond a sword. He laughs at dudes coming at him with swords. Then that blasted Gamecube tech demo had to get it in everybody's mind that he should be swinging a sword around like every other fantasy villain.

The logic behind making Ganondorf a clone at the time was completely sound. He deserves a mild shakeup, but frankly most the older cast does. When you look at the creativity on display for some of the newcomers in Smash 4 it almost makes you wish some of the vets weren't added when they were.

 

[Nekoo]

We could give Ike an Axe without changing anything and no one would scream about "all sword gameplay is the same and don't have diversity" That's how hypocritical those people are.

 

[P.Kat]

Simon Belmet? I am not a Castalvania guy, but I can see people's reasoning..
I mean I heard his early games were popular, and was on a Nintendo console.

Also it seems people are forgetting one Pokemon that can potentially be in Smash...
View attachment 145134

I wouldn't mind having Tapu Koko in Smash that's good pick actually, but I rather have Zeraora, Lycanroc or Gardevoir instead.

 

[Koopaul]

man, did people seriously think i was bashing anime just because i wanted barbarian simon? like c'mon my main is THE anime swordsman and some of my faves send the anti-anime crowd into a frothing mess. i don't dislike anime, i just want some more visual diversity among the cast.

Indeed, it's not the "anime swordsman" as much as it's the super pretty boy band types with "cool" hair and possibly an edgy past.

Some of these characters I can see breaking out into song "Gurl... I'll swing my sword for you-ooooo!"

If it was some manly bearded scar having fellow? That would completely stand out. It wouldn't matter if it was "anime" or he was a "swordsman".

 

[Jellybat]

Lurker coming in add some discussions points on the whole roster options.


When i generally look at a character in smash. I like to understand what exactly is the character specifically representing about that franchise. and the image of the franchise as a whole if i assumed the first contact with the franchise for me would smash...

lets just quickly look at the zelda franchise pool

Link: the main guy. the protagonist

Zelda. the longrunning princess /damsel of the series.

ganon: the villain of most entries

toon link: the other style of zelda series:

shiek: alter ego of zelda



now ill assume i have never heard anything about the zelda series and form an image of the franchise from these characters alone and how they look and work:

link gives me the idea of a fantasy hero in most cases with a weird pool of tools.

zelda definately gives the vibe of a magical princess(what else can i say..)

ganon gives this menacing and powerful feel that you know he is probably the bad guy

shiek: ninja guy

toon link: link with a different look.





the overall image i would get from these about the franchise is a serious fantasy world that also seems to have 2 different styles (toon link)

now the question. how do you feel like this specific franchise's image could be clearer to someone who does not know much about the series?

My answer to this would be a character that represents the goofier sides of Zelda, that always show in its side-casts, which the current representation is not clearly showing. Only giving the idea of a more serious fantasy franchise.



so who would be the best character to fix this?

the character i feel that would best fit this role would be Tingle. reasonings:


*you will certainly not see him as a serious fantasy character
* has been in multiple entries
* has 2 games in his own name. thus representing them too
* is decently popular(at least in japan)

Adding tingle into the pool would give a better image on what the zelda franchise truly is. a fantasy world that has times when its serious and times when its just outright weird.




now the challenge to you people:

pick a franchise that is currently represented in smash

try to create an idea about the franchise and its history with just the knowledge you get from the roster alone

what do you feel is lacking in the current image?

what character could possibly improve this image to give a better idea to new people on what the franchise truly is?


ps: sorry for the wall of text. just interested on other people's visions on this.

 

[osby]

This means we can stop complaining about the guys without square jaws?

 

[FlareHabanero]

New topic to spice things up.

Last game there is implications that Dr. Mario was supposed to get a stage, based on apparently the Viruses being planned as "boss" characters. This makes me raise a few questions.

Why was it scrapped so early in development, and does it relate to Dr. Mario's eventual return later in development?
What was the stage going to be like? Was it merely going to be a flat platform with the game Dr. Mario being played in the back with the Viruses occasionally coming in to cause chaos, or were you inside the bottle dodging Megavitamins and the Viruses?

But relevant to the topic is will this stage be properly included in the next game? If this does happen does that mean Dr. Mario will return, this time with a proper stage? Hell, they may even revise the concept to reference another game. They could instead reference the Puzzle League series of games, or they could even reference a third party series like Tetris or Puyo Puyo.

But regardless, it does show that someone in development does care enough about Dr. Mario to plan out a stage referencing the game. Which makes me think they'll try to bring back Dr. Mario with a proper stage next time around.

 

[osby]

Well, someone (Sakurai) sure cares about Dr. Mario enough to put him as a model swap of Mario rather than any of his alter egos and putting a bunch of music from his game.

A stage is entirely possible.

 

[Cosmic77]

> I would be happy if Decidueye isn't in Smash because it would mean Lyanroc has a better chance of getting in.
> I'm not celebrating that his supporters didn't get him. I'm just happy that the character I really want could still get in.

> That doesn't make me selfish.

And I'm apparently wrong for thinking that way? That's like saying a parent shouldn't cheer for their son when he beats someone in a basketball game. "Tom, how could you do such a thing!? Celebrating that the other team lost since your son's team can move on to the state finals!? How very selfish and self-centered of you!"

I'm not obligated to want every single popular character to get in Smash. In many cases, only one character from a franchise can get in. So If the person I'm not rooting for doesn't make it in, then yes, I'd obviously be happy if that meant the character I really wanted was more likely.

 

[Wyoming]

Well, someone (Sakurai) sure cares about Dr. Mario enough to put him as a model swap of Mario rather than any of his alter egos and putting a bunch of music from his game.

A stage is entirely possible.

It's loooooooooong overdue. Obviously I get that due to his late addition in both Melee and Sm4sh a stage wasn't really feasible (we didn't even get a Fire Emblem stage in Melee lol) but if everyone comes back then a Dr. Mario stage must finally be a reality.

 

[Deleted member]

I heard there was a plan Doctor Mario boss in Smash 4, but it was scrapped.
There probably would of been more bosses in Smash 4, so maybe more bosses can appear in Smash Bros. 5?

 

[osby]

It would be nice. But I hope Ridley isn't one of them. It's going to be like, what, third time?