Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Megadoomer]

I'm not really a huge fan of the idea of a smaller roster, especially when people say that it should be brought down to thirty characters or so.

At that point, you're basically being the MCU version of Thanos - claiming that half of the roster needs to be destroyed for the sake of balance, regardless of what almost everyone else has to say on the matter or who we lose in the process.

Maybe my perspective's different because I've had two of my favourite characters removed between games, but I figure that every character has their fans, and ideally, they should try to bring back as many characters as possible.

 

[Pokechu]

Out of every franchise, which do you think has the best shot at getting two newcomers on the base roster?

I think Pokemon, Xeno, and Splatoon all have a decent chance, but if I had to choose only one, I'd say Pokemon. Any of you have a different opinion?

Pokemon.

Squirtle and Ivysaur, of course.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Out of every franchise, which do you think has the best shot at getting two newcomers on the base roster?

I think Pokemon, Xeno, and Splatoon all have a decent chance, but if I had to choose only one, I'd say Pokemon. Any of you have a different opinion?

My top 3 are Xenoblade if we get Elma and Rex, Mario because there are still so many viable options and they got 2 last time (2 + 1 returning veteran) and DK because Dixie and King K. Rool are both likely for different reasons.

 

[LittleMissEevee]

I hope they make many of the vets better designed this time, can’t wait to try out my boi lucario too, but seriously, make samus more solid especially and give ganon a dead man’s volley neutral b projectile (my idea is a large slow moving one that stuns, it can be attacked to reflect and he can cape it to increase its stun power, it disappears either after a certain number of reflects or after traveling a certain distance and picks up speed each time a reflector is used on it, it should have cooldown time to where hes left with just the reflector and in the air he can float with said neutral b)

 

[Freduardo]

Out of every franchise, which do you think has the best shot at getting two newcomers on the base roster?

I think Pokemon, Xeno, and Splatoon all have a decent chance, but if I had to choose only one, I'd say Pokemon. Any of you have a different opinion?

I’m giving it to Splatoon.

There are too many weapons for just one moveset, you know the dev team probably plays the hell out of it, and once you work the gimmick for inklings, doing it for octolings, especially as they will be playable before Smash, just works

 

[Bowserlick]

DK potentially has: Dixie Kong, Cranky Kong, Funky Kong, K. Rool and Pauline for new reps.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Out of every franchise, which do you think has the best shot at getting two newcomers on the base roster?

I think Pokemon, Xeno, and Splatoon all have a decent chance, but if I had to choose only one, I'd say Pokemon. Any of you have a different opinion?

Maybe DK? Dixie and K Rool both have a lot going for them tbh

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Out of every franchise, which do you think has the best shot at getting two newcomers on the base roster?

I think Pokemon, Xeno, and Splatoon all have a decent chance, but if I had to choose only one, I'd say Pokemon. Any of you have a different opinion?

I think Xenoblade may have the best chance. Elma and Rex both fall in between Smash Wii U and Smash Switch. Alternatively, if Sakurai gives into the fans, DK may have the best chance with Dixie and K. Rool.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

I am personally hoping for the double Xenoblade Character reveal with Elma and Rex.

 

[Megadoomer]

Out of every franchise, which do you think has the best shot at getting two newcomers on the base roster?

I think Pokemon, Xeno, and Splatoon all have a decent chance, but if I had to choose only one, I'd say Pokemon. Any of you have a different opinion?

I'm torn between Xenoblade and Donkey Kong. I feel like both Dixie and K. Rool would have done well in the ballot, between Tropical Freeze bringing Dixie back into the spotlight and a lot of people wanting to see K. Rool return in some form.

For Xenoblade, at least one newcomer seems inevitable; I'm just not sure if we'd get both Rex and Elma, or just one of them. (I suppose it depends on how far along XC2 was in development, or whether or not XCX inspired the development team)

 

[SquashiniKun]

I think we're gonna get 4 character reveals at E3, 2 in the video presentation, 1 in the treehouse live, and 1 at the invitational.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I am personally hoping for the double Xenoblade Character reveal with Elma and Rex.

I mean having 2 fire emblem reps with one being a clone still caused backlash from the fandom, having 2 completely unique newcomers for Xenoblade honestly sounds like a mess in that regard, if we get both I'm thinking one would be a secret character at the very least. Having one as DLC however sounds like a better idea.

I think we're gonna get 4 character reveals at E3, 2 in the video presentation, 1 in the treehouse live, and 1 at the invitational.

4 newcomers + inklings sounds like a good bet

 

[Super Flygon]

That's doubtful unless they plan to reveal literally all of the game's content at e3 lol

Fixed it for you.

Lol, both are pretty accurate responses, though I was mainly referring to questions regarding port vs new game and other basic information that should be answered at the E3 Spotlight.

I actually am kind of hopeful that most of the game's information will be revealed at E3, especially if the game is slated for a September release, considering how close that is to E3 (of course I do hope that there are big surprises saved for us to find on our own....and hopefully we have a simultaneous worldwide release if that is the case).

 

[SquashiniKun]

4 newcomers + inklings sounds like a good bet

If you want me to elborate, 2 first party characters in the video presenation, 1 vet (probably the Ice Climbers) in TreeHouse Live, and a 3rd Party character at the invitational.

 

[Super Flygon]

Out of every franchise, which do you think has the best shot at getting two newcomers on the base roster?

I think Pokemon, Xeno, and Splatoon all have a decent chance, but if I had to choose only one, I'd say Pokemon. Any of you have a different opinion?

I think DK probably has the best choice with Dixie Kong & King K. Rool. I also think Mario (with Captain Toad, Paper Mario, Waluigi & Pauline being among the top contenders) and Zelda (mainly if BOTW Link is his own character) have good shots at it. Would mainly bet on DK, but I am cautiously optimistic for at least 2 of the Mario characters I mentioned and hopeful for Zelda.

I think we're gonna get 4 character reveals at E3, 2 in the video presentation, 1 in the treehouse live, and 1 at the invitational.

Does that include the Inklings? If not, I totally agree with your prediction. Two (separate from Inkings) in the presentation, followed by 1 at the Treehouse and 1 at the invitational seems to be best. Even including Inklings, 3 more newcomers is solid.

Considering how 3DS/Wii U had 3 newcomers revealed at E3 2013 & E3 2014, I think at least 3 (preferably excluding Inklings) would be a safe bet.

 

[SquashiniKun]

Does that include the Inklings? If not, I totally agree with your prediction. Two (separate from Inkings) in the presentation, followed by 1 at the Treehouse and 1 at the invitational seems to be best. Even including Inklings, 3 more newcomers is solid.

Considering how 3DS/Wii U had 3 newcomers revealed at E3 2013 & E3 2014, I think at least 3 (preferably excluding Inklings) would be a safe bet.

I made a post above yours that elaborates my theory.

 

[osby]

I just hope that they would reveal more veterans from the start. I mean, shadows in the flames are nice and all but it'd be cool if don't have to worry about some of my faves not making it to the final roster.

Though most of my worries either was DLC or unlockable so...

 

[Super Flygon]

I just hope that they would reveal more veterans from the start. I mean, shadows in the flames are nice and all but it'd be cool if don't have to worry about some of my faves not making it to the final roster.

Though most of my worries either was DLC or unlockable so...

Yeah, I do hope we get a lot of vets shown off, particularly those shown in the March trailer.

Speaking of the March trailer, what do you guys think about the E3 trailer continuing from where the March trailer left off, with the Inklings fighting against Smash veterans?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I'm personally very curious about the format of the invitational this time around. I think its safe to assume it will be a 1v1 items off bracket, but I am also curious if they will make each competitor pick a different character this time around. At the Smash 4 invitational, no player was allowed to play the same character as another player, obviously because they wanted to show off all the different characters. With this invitational clearly having the value of competition in mind, will they still limit character selections?

I would like to believe they are not preventing players from picking whoever they want. After all, they are having exhibition matches after the tournament, as well as plenty of treehouse time being dedicated to the game where they can cover other characters.

Now the original reason I was considering this is because it could affect how many characters will be available at the E3 build. There were 16 competitors at the Smash 4 invitational, and 20 characters were available I believe. With there only being 8 actual invitational players, will the available character pool be limited to 12 or 14? And will that limited character pool also cause us to get less information on newcomers/veterans at E3? Will they save the majority of character reveals for a later date, such as a Smash Direct? I have a lot of questions about the matter, and unfortunately they won't get answered for a month.

 

[J0eyboi]

Ooo, are we still posting rosters? Mine is very much an "ideal roster" rather than an actual prediction.

I personally think it'd be really nice to have a smaller roster, where veterans can be heavily reworked and each character gets a stronger unique identity. It'd also help with balance, I reckon.

This would never happen obviously, but I'd personally love to see a Smash game like this, with more focus on quality than on quantity.

I wouldn't mind a smaller roster, but your cuts make no sense. There is no way that if all the FE vets except two were cut, Lucina would get to stay. Peach getting cut but not Luigi makes an equal amount of sense, and you don't get to argue "original 12" because Puff isn't here either.

But I guess that's all excusable; after all, this is a dream roster, not any form of prediction. What isn't excusable is Mimikyu's background being yellow. That's a choice I just can't forgive.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'd like to think Sakurai saw what happened to Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite and what happens when you limit your roster and don't update it at all.

I remember being hyped for that game because the face of Marvel in both movies and comics had changed so much. I expected people like Kamala Khan, Miles Morales, Young Avengers, Runaways, Widow (eventually got her in DLC), etc, etc.

I seriously doubt Sakurai wishes to limit and cut his roster that much and not even bring in new faces that matter to Nintendo.

We've already probably lost one of the two big crossover fighting games. We don't need to lose another to silly mistakes.

 

[J0eyboi]

I'd like to think Sakurai saw what happened to Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite and what happens when you limit your roster and don't update it at all.

I remember being hyped for that game because the face of Marvel in both movies and comics had changed so much. I expected people like Kamala Khan, Miles Morales, Young Avengers, Runaways, Widow (eventually got her in DLC), etc, etc.

I seriously doubt Sakurai wishes to limit and cut his roster that much and not even bring in new faces that matter to Nintendo.

We've already probably lost one of the two big crossover fighting games. We don't need to lose another to silly mistakes.

To be fair, Infinite's failure wasn't soley caused by its roster size. Bad visuals, lack of support from Capcom, and the release of FighterZ all contributed as well, and last I checked, Arcsys wasn't planning on making a platform fighter anytime soon.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Infinite's failure was definitely a number of things, but when your game looks dated to not only Marvel but Capcom itself?

You done ****ed up.

Like where was Rashid? Hell even Jack Baker from RE7? There was not one single new face from Capcom that made sense. Save Monster Hunter.

And she came later as DLC like Widow did.

It's a sad state of affairs when the DLC was more fresh and reflective of the current state of both companies than the base roster.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

The one thing that should be removed with large roster now is the fact that you have to play in classic/all star mode with every character to unlock one of challenges

Man that was not fun to do

These should be challenges not boring the player with something annoying

 

[Polan]

smash switch will almost certainly be 60 dollars. give me 30 characters in a 60 dollar smash game and i'll give you a flop on the level of mvci.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

That being said, there is no way Smash Switch is going the way of Infinite. Only the most cynical of people would genuinely believe Sakurai wouldn't attempt to bring in a good amount of newcomers as he'd know they are one of the biggest things fans look forward to in a new game.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I'd like to think Sakurai saw what happened to Marvel vs Capcom: Infinite and what happens when you limit your roster and don't update it at all.

I remember being hyped for that game because the face of Marvel in both movies and comics had changed so much. I expected people like Kamala Khan, Miles Morales, Young Avengers, Runaways, Widow (eventually got her in DLC), etc, etc.

I seriously doubt Sakurai wishes to limit and cut his roster that much and not even bring in new faces that matter to Nintendo.

We've already probably lost one of the two big crossover fighting games. We don't need to lose another to silly mistakes.

The circumstances regarding to Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite was meddling from Marvel, hence why key characters were arbitrarily cut and why Capcom characters couldn't beat up the Marvel characters in trailers. The developers themselves did not intend to gimp their own game like that, but they had to follow orders due to these circumstances. Not helping that the game suffered from a very small budget that forced the developers to recycle assets from past games, creating stuff like the infamous "meth head" Chun Li in previews.

Without that meddling, the game would be a lot better off. But with big businesses, money talks, and unfortunately executives will gladly push too far in order to get that money. I doubt Super Smash Bros. will have that same scenario happen, due to the very nature of the crossover being handled very differently. Such as having no involvement from the movie or comic industry side of things, and having it's content sprinkled in from many companies instead of focusing only on two companies.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Looking back at a possible Rhythm Heaven character, I think Rhythm Girl would be an interesting idea. A character based around dancing is something new and just looking at the game I can see lots of move potential.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Marvel wasn't fully to blame for Capcom ****ing up MvC:I.

Don't even go there. Marvel told them no X-Men/Deadpool/Fantastic Four sure.

They most assuredly would not tell them ''Hey don't add any of these characters we've introduced in the comics over the last few years that make us a lot of money that aren't X-Men and we're really proud of them. And most assuredly wait for DLC to include heavy hitters from the MCU like Black Widow, Black Panther, and Winter Soldier.

Even though all our recent success as a company is mostly from that blockbuster universe."

Both are to blame.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Marvel wasn't fully to blame for Capcom ****ing up MvC:I.

Don't even go there. Marvel told them no X-Men/Deadpool/Fantastic Four sure.

They most assuredly would not tell them ''Hey don't add any of these characters we've introduced in the comics over the last few years that make us a lot of money that aren't X-Men and we're really proud of them. And most assuredly wait for DLC to include heavy hitters from the MCU like Black Widow, Black Panther, and Winter Soldier.

Even though all our recent success as a company is mostly from that blockbuster universe."

Both are to blame.

I think more the point was that there were too many companies involved and it created multiple issues.

But regardless, I agree. Honestly, the fact it didn't have Wolverine on the base roster is ridiculous even when they want to push the Inhumans, which the idea of pushing them is not an issue in itself. But Ryu and Wolverine are the posterboys of the series. You need them there. It's no surprise the game did poorly because of multiple factors, including that. I can understand some of the other X-Men being DLC in this case, but not the biggest hitter of all time.

 

[Cosmic77]

Looking back at a possible Rhythm Heaven character, I think Rhythm Girl would be an interesting idea. A character based around dancing is something new and just looking at the game I can see lots of move potential.

Any of the popular Rhythm Heaven characters would work fine in Smash. Chorus Kids, Karate Joe, Rhythm Girl - they're all good choices for the series.

Course, we don't even know if RH is getting a newcomer. Feels like most people have neglected to look at it ever since Splatoon and ARMS came into the picture.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Even if Marvel had allowed them Wolverine? I doubt they'd have allowed them Logan.

They'd have pushed Laura.

Because that's what they were/are doing in the comics to **** with Fox before the buyout thing started happening.

That actually is something I wonder. If say Wolverine got in? But it was X-23's version.

And Gwenpool got instead of Deadpool? How would people have handled that?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

That actually is something I wonder. If say Wolverine got in? But it was X-23's version.

And Gwenpool got instead of Deadpool? How would people have handled that?

Poorly.

 

[blackghost]

i do blame marvel for mvci failure. because character decisions and forcing capcom to pour money and time into a dull story mode took away time from the rest of the game. mvci failed becuase not enough was infested in it. money, time, advertisement, ect. I played the game gameplaywise its incredible everything else is awful. but thats what happens when two companies have to work together, other agendas come to fruitition besides makong a good ame.
to tie this back to smash this is one of the reaosns people dont think sora will happen in the base or even dlc. Disney has a history of being difficult. they have killed many many games.

smash wont have those issues.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Poorly.

To be fair the same people who reacted poorly to Rocket and X-23 in MvC3 and called them a wasted slot, also are now their biggest fans thanks to the movies and they never once said anything wrong about either if you approach them about it.

Not exactly the same scenario, but there's precedent of a bunch of whiny babies getting over it.

 

[Bowserlick]

Spinoff: Mushroom Kingdom VS Pokemon

15 characters each for a total of 30.

Spin-off that reuses characters from those franchises plus new ones.
Small enough roster to flesh out characters and introduce new game mechanics.
There ya go.

 

[MysticKnives]

That being said, there is no way Smash Switch is going the way of Infinite. Only the most cynical of people would genuinely believe Sakurai wouldn't attempt to bring in a good amount of newcomers as he'd know they are one of the biggest things fans look forward to in a new game.

This really. I can sort of get the smaller roster arguments. But most Smash characters feels quite different despite being at around 60 characters playable. In a juggernaut crossover fighter promoted as playing some of your favorite Nintendo Characters and special guest characters, the characters are the biggest draw to a game like this. Cutting it down drastically (especially now), would do more harm than good at this point.

 

[monadoboy]

Who do you guys think are the best 'dark horse'/rarely discussed character choices to get in this time around?
I'd say:
Pikachu Libre
Geralt (most unexpected yet somewhat plausible character, imo)
Joker/Atlus rep
Ryu Hayabusa (iconic, Ninja Gaiden 3 on Wii U, etc.)
Monita
Lana
Linkle
Zael (crossbow + sword + magic + Prank Banana)
Fatal Frame character

And lastly:

Galactic Federation Marine from Federation Force (I can hear the salt just by typing this)

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Not helping that the game suffered from a very small budget that forced the developers to recycle assets from past games, creating stuff like the infamous "meth head" Chun Li in previews.

That's mainly due to poor modelling. Chun Li's model in SF5 and MvC3 looked good.

 

[Super Flygon]

Who do you guys think are the best 'dark horse'/rarely discussed character choices to get in this time around?
I'd say:
Pikachu Libre
Geralt (most unexpected yet somewhat plausible character, imo)
Joker/Atlus rep
Ryu Hayabusa (iconic, Ninja Gaiden 3 on Wii U, etc.)
Monita
Lana
Linkle
Zael (crossbow + sword + magic + Prank Banana)
Fatal Frame character

And lastly:

Galactic Federation Marine from Federation Force (I can hear the salt just by typing this)

If anything, Pikachu Libre should be an alt for Pikachu. Similarly, Linkle could be an alt for Link.