Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[NintendoKnight]

I suppose so. I had plushies of much of the Mario cast plus Pokemon wind-up figurines. Oh and Diddy Kong was also added to the group too. And I suppose I also added a few 3rd or 4th party characters like Optimus Prime, Buzz Lightyear, the Power Rangers, Godzilla and Mothra, and Strech Armstrong.

Stretch Armstrong should've been in ARMS. And then, after being in ARMS, he'd get into Smash as the ARMS rep.

In other words, Stretch Armstrong for Smash.

 

[Roberk]

Crazy idea: what if Stardew Valley got a playable character in Smash? Sakurai has talked about the game quite a bit and says he really enjoys it, and it is actually the #1 most downloaded game on the Switch outside of Japan. In Japan, it is second only to Minecraft. While some might feel the moveset would be too close to the villager, I'm sure Sakurai can make 2 country-life movesets feel unique when we already have so many brawlers, sword fighters, and gunners in the game. In Stardew Valley there is actually combat unlike Animal Crossing, so they won't be held back by the "they're not a fighter" stigma. Utilizing various weapons and combat rings with farming equipment and actions could lead to a fun and variety filled moveset. Villager doesn't use things like a pickaxe and a Stardew Valley character could be our terraforming character by building various structures like fences and crops.

I'm mainly just spitballing here, it's a very unlikely newcomer since they are from an indie game who only has prominence to Nintendo as of last year, but I still think they'd be cool. What do you guys think?

 

[NintenRob]

Person and Character are actually different things anyway. A character is a specific individual in a work, and every "transformation" is yet another character to note. They're the same person, but still different characters. Not everybody recognizes Ganondorf no matter how you cut it. Ganon is vastly more well known. It's always gone Ganon > Ganondorf in terms of recognizability. I'm not even sure Skull Kid truly comes in as a 3rd either. Agnahim might actually edge him out due to ALTTP being severely more well known than MM. The problem is MM isn't nearly all that well known compared to some others, and that's the only time Skull Kid is a specific villain. He's not nearly as well known as people think. Not that he isn't awesome.

Also, that's still an unrelated Ganondorf as is. So basically, it's an entirely different person either way. There's more than one Ganon/Ganondorf just like there is more than one Link and Zelda. Fact of the matter is, it doesn't matter if they're the same person or not. As long as they can have a unique/fun moveset, they're worth considering. Zelda/Sheik are the same person(but different characters), same with Samus/Zero Suit Samus. It's not like it matters one bit if they're the same person or not and never actually did.

You're confusing the context of Smash with the context of the series. If Ganon got in Smash, he'd probably have his own spot and therefore be his own character in smash However that doesn't change the fact that they're still one and the same. It's literally there in name. It doesn't matter which form is more iconic. It's still Ganondorf. The main antagonist. People don't say Kaptain K Rool is less iconic than K Rool. Because they're the same person. Samus is Samus regardless of suit. Just as Link is Link, even if he's done away with the Green Tunic. Even it's a different incarnation each time, people still view Link as the main protagonist without the need to specify which one. It's the same with Ganondorf, he may look different each time, some more drastic than others. But he's still just one guy.

Also no way Agahnim is more recognizable than Skull Kid. Especially today. Agahnim is a relic left to die in a Link to the Past. While Skull Kids popularity has stood the test of time and is constantly made nods to and is referenced a lot, even today. His iconic status as a villain is tied to the titular mask, which is a part if his image. Being part of the titular item gives Skull Kid a big boost in terms of being recognizable. Agahnim as a villain was just kinda there. Doesn't help that his sprite doesn't match his artwork at all hurting how people recognize him

 

[Gumzilla]

For a retro character how about Mach Rider? They'd be cool!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You're confusing the context of Smash with the context of the series. If Ganon got in Smash, he'd probably have his own spot and therefore be his own character in smash However that doesn't change the fact that they're still one and the same. It's literally there in name. It doesn't matter which form is more iconic. It's still Ganondorf. The main antagonist. People don't say Kaptain K Rool is less iconic than K Rool. Because they're the same person. Samus is Samus regardless of suit. Just as Link is Link, even if he's done away with the Green Tunic. Even it's a different incarnation each time, people still view Link as the main protagonist without the need to specify which one. It's the same with Ganondorf, he may look different each time, some more drastic than others. But he's still just one guy.

It's not comparable at all to Link. You either recognize his beast form or his human form. They're not similar to one another. It's not just about Smash. People do not see Ganon and think Ganonorf, or vice versa. They see a human or a beast with different names. They're just the same person. It's exactly the same thing as Zelda/Sheik. Who are still different characters in everything they do. That's kind of the point of them. Ganon fights way differently from Ganondorf and that's kind of the point of them. Ganon is also still vastly more recognizable than Ganondorf, and it makes sense. Ganon is in way more games, in his proper bestial form(only TP and WW's versions look actually different from his general design which is fairly consistent among various Zelda games).

Also no way Agahnim is more recognizable than Skull Kid. Especially today. Agahnim is a relic left to die in a Link to the Past. While Skull Kids popularity has stood the test of time and is constantly made nods to and is referenced a lot, even today. His iconic status as a villain is tied to the titular mask, which is a part if his image. Being part of the titular item gives Skull Kid a big boost in terms of being recognizable. Agahnim as a villain was just kinda there. Doesn't help that his sprite doesn't match his artwork at all hurting how people recognize him

His sprite and artwork are still pretty much only slightly different. And yes, he's way more recognizable. The Skull Kid that people are talking about is the specific one with the Majora's Mask on. The basic Skull Kid is decently recognizable, but the actual villain is not. Agnahim is hardly a relic and has been repeated via his shadow form in more than one game. It's hardly just a relic thing; but let's not forget A Link To The Past is one of the most iconic Zelda games of all times. Majora's Mask is nowhere near that as is. The actual proper Skull Kid, the actual villain, that is, is not all that known. And it makes sense. He comes from a game that's not nearly as known as some others. It's not Ocarina of Time. It's as close to a spin-off as you can get without literally being one(unlike the Tingle games and Link's Crossbow Training). It's basically Super Mario Run, a spin-off in everything but name. It wasn't meant to be a proper continuation of the general story in the series, just a fun side story.

 

[Onua]

So I figured why not. These are some of the chars Id like to see in smash that I feel might have a chance (most are left field tho) and I dont see any of them talked about lately so why not talk about a few of them?
1. Fossil Fighter
2. Medusa
3. King K Rool
4. Takamaru
5. Junko with Monokuma
6. Phoenix Wright

 

[NintendoKnight]

It's not comparable at all to Link. You either recognize his beast form or his human form. They're not similar to one another. It's not just about Smash. People do not see Ganon and think Ganonorf, or vice versa. They see a human or a beast with different names. They're just the same person. It's exactly the same thing as Zelda/Sheik. Who are still different characters in everything they do. That's kind of the point of them. Ganon fights way differently from Ganondorf and that's kind of the point of them. Ganon is also still vastly more recognizable than Ganondorf, and it makes sense. Ganon is in way more games, in his proper bestial form(only TP and WW's versions look actually different from his general design which is fairly consistent among various Zelda games).

But at the same time, saying Ganon and Ganondorf are two separate characters is like saying Superman and Clark Kent are two separate characters. I wouldn't call Alter Egos a separate character, exactly. Ganon is merely Ganondorf in the form that most resembles his heart. A greedy, power-hungry pig. Outside of the curse of the Dark World (which is Downfall Timeline specific), and the influence of the Trident of Power in Four Swords Adventures, Ganondorf has been shown to change back and forth between forms at will.

 

[NintenRob]

It's not comparable at all to Link. You either recognize his beast form or his human form. They're not similar to one another. It's not just about Smash. People do not see Ganon and think Ganonorf, or vice versa. They see a human or a beast with different names. They're just the same person. It's exactly the same thing as Zelda/Sheik. Who are still different characters in everything they do. That's kind of the point of them. Ganon fights way differently from Ganondorf and that's kind of the point of them. Ganon is also still vastly more recognizable than Ganondorf, and it makes sense. Ganon is in way more games, in his proper bestial form(only TP and WW's versions look actually different from his general design which is fairly consistent among various Zelda games).


His sprite and artwork are still pretty much only slightly different. And yes, he's way more recognizable. The Skull Kid that people are talking about is the specific one with the Majora's Mask on. The basic Skull Kid is decently recognizable, but the actual villain is not. Agnahim is hardly a relic and has been repeated via his shadow form in more than one game. It's hardly just a relic thing; but let's not forget A Link To The Past is one of the most iconic Zelda games of all times. Majora's Mask is nowhere near that as is. The actual proper Skull Kid, the actual villain, that is, is not all that known. And it makes sense. He comes from a game that's not nearly as known as some others. It's not Ocarina of Time. It's as close to a spin-off as you can get without literally being one(unlike the Tingle games and Link's Crossbow Training). It's basically Super Mario Run, a spin-off in everything but name. It wasn't meant to be a proper continuation of the general story in the series, just a fun side story.

I think you're underestimate how popular Majora's Mask is, especially in this age of the internet.

Just compare YouTube view counts. Majora's Mask video's have way more videos with over a million views than Link to the past. The Link to the past video with the most views is the egoraptor video that's also about Ocarina of Time.

Also being in more games =/= more iconic

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

But at the same time, saying Ganon and Ganondorf are two separate characters is like saying Superman and Clark Kent are two separate characters. I wouldn't call Alter Egos a separate character, exactly. Ganon is merely Ganondorf in the form that most resembles his heart. A greedy, power-hungry pig. Outside of the curse of the Dark World (which is Downfall Timeline specific), and the influence of the Trident of Power in Four Swords Adventures, Ganondorf has been shown to change back and forth between forms at will.

Yep, separate characters, same person. Person refers more to their soul in this particular context. A character is not the same thing. They're explicitly different physical forms. In a story, every form is essentially their own character. Alter-egos aren't exempt from this.

People can transform into more than one character. Nothing unusual, really.

It doesn't matter that they can transform into another character. Ganon is more recognizable and different from Ganondorf. Not everybody even outright knows they're the same person. Agnahim is a different character and yet another form of Ganon too, but very recognizable, almost as much as Ganondorf is now. It's no surprise that the most recognizable villains are forms of Ganon, but that makes sense.

I think you're underestimate how popular Majora's Mask is, especially in this age of the internet.

Just compare YouTube view counts. Majora's Mask video's have way more videos with over a million views than Link to the past. The Link to the past video with the most views is the egoraptor video that's also about Ocarina of Time.

Also being in more games =/= more iconic

YouTube doesn't mean much in itself.

And for one thing, MM's specific Skull Kid isn't nearly as well known because it's a one-off villain from a less than iconic game. The game doesn't have the same recognizability as others. That does matter. Popularity is not the same inherent thing as recognizability. Fierce Deity Link is definitely not as recognizable as the regular Link forms in comparison. He's a drastic change. Same with the other Mask Transformations. They're not something that heavily shows up in the series as is. For one reason or another. Many wouldn't even know that Skull Kid is an actual specific villain. Some would just recognize him in his most known form, a troublemaker. This is what he does the most. His villain role is a one-time thing, and while it gets references here and there, it's not the only thing one of the many Skull Kids does. It's a race, after all. Which comes with other issues. Recognizing the race is easy. Recognizing the extremely specific one and knowing who they are from a lesser known game in the series is not.

 

[Chandeelure]

This is the first time I hear about Agahnim.

And apparently his sprite looks like Porky lol.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Crazy idea: what if Stardew Valley got a playable character in Smash? Sakurai has talked about the game quite a bit and says he really enjoys it, and it is actually the #1 most downloaded game on the Switch outside of Japan. In Japan, it is second only to Minecraft. While some might feel the moveset would be too close to the villager, I'm sure Sakurai can make 2 country-life movesets feel unique when we already have so many brawlers, sword fighters, and gunners in the game. In Stardew Valley there is actually combat unlike Animal Crossing, so they won't be held back by the "they're not a fighter" stigma. Utilizing various weapons and combat rings with farming equipment and actions could lead to a fun and variety filled moveset. Villager doesn't use things like a pickaxe and a Stardew Valley character could be our terraforming character by building various structures like fences and crops.

I'm mainly just spitballing here, it's a very unlikely newcomer since they are from an indie game who only has prominence to Nintendo as of last year, but I still think they'd be cool. What do you guys think?

I think if we were to get any Farmer related character, it would be a Story of Seasons/Harvest Moon Farmer because
A) Its not an Indie game
B) Harvest Moon (which is now Story of Seasons) has been on Nintendo consoles since the early 90's and still has regular releases
C) Advertising Story of Seasons, which is a pretty underrated game.

 

[NintenRob]

Yep, separate characters, same person. Person refers more to their soul in this particular context. A character is not the same thing. They're explicitly different physical forms. In a story, every form is essentially their own character. Alter-egos aren't exempt from this.

People can transform into more than one character. Nothing unusual, really.

It doesn't matter that they can transform into another character. Ganon is more recognizable and different from Ganondorf. Not everybody even outright knows they're the same person. Agnahim is a different character and yet another form of Ganon too, but very recognizable, almost as much as Ganondorf is now. It's no surprise that the most recognizable villains are forms of Ganon, but that makes sense.


YouTube doesn't mean much in itself.

And for one thing, MM's specific Skull Kid isn't nearly as well known because it's a one-off villain from a less than iconic game. The game doesn't have the same recognizability as others. That does matter. Popularity is not the same inherent thing as recognizability. Fierce Deity Link is definitely not as recognizable as the regular Link forms in comparison. He's a drastic change. Same with the other Mask Transformations. They're not something that heavily shows up in the series as is. For one reason or another. Many wouldn't even know that Skull Kid is an actual specific villain. Some would just recognize him in his most known form, a troublemaker. This is what he does the most. His villain role is a one-time thing, and while it gets references here and there, it's not the only thing one of the many Skull Kids does. It's a race, after all. Which comes with other issues. Recognizing the race is easy. Recognizing the extremely specific one and knowing who they are from a lesser known game in the series is not.

Where are you getting that Majora's Mask is less than Iconic? It's one of the most discussed Zelda games on the internet. And really? Being the villain in Majora's Mask IS what's he's most known for. By far. It's why when he was put in Smash and Hyrule Warriors, he wears the Majora's Mask.

Also the specific Skull Kid that appears in Majora's Mask is also in Ocarina of Time and is strongly believed to be the one in Twilight Princess too.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Where are you getting that Majora's Mask is less than Iconic? It's one of the most discussed Zelda games on the internet. And really? Being the villain in Majora's Mask IS what's he's most known for. By far. It's why when he was put in Smash and Hyrule Warriors, he wears the Majora's Mask.

Also the specific Skull Kid that appears in Majora's Mask is also in Ocarina of Time and is strongly believed to be the one in Twilight Princess too.

There's more than one Skull Kid in both TP and OOT. Only one of them is from OOT.

It's still a race. That's far more recognizable than a one-off villain. He absolutely is nowhere near as recognizable as either Ganondorf or his bestial form, Ganon. And MM is not nearly that iconic due to not being part of the main storyline. It's a side story. Again, internet popularity doesn't mean it's recognizable to everyone. Not everyone is on the net. Many don't know of them. ALTTP being significantly more iconic as a game does matter here. It has very recognizable bosses, even ones who were remade for MM too. It also has vastly more videos, coincidentally.

Anyway, it's obvious we're going in circles here. Let's just agree to disagree. I won't reply after this anyway.

 

[NintenRob]

There's more than one Skull Kid in both TP and OOT. Only one of them is from OOT.

It's still a race. That's far more recognizable than a one-off villain. He absolutely is nowhere near as recognizable as either Ganondorf or his bestial form, Ganon. And MM is not nearly that iconic due to not being part of the main storyline. It's a side story. Again, internet popularity doesn't mean it's recognizable to everyone. Not everyone is on the net. Many don't know of them. ALTTP being significantly more iconic as a game does matter here. It has very recognizable bosses, even ones who were remade for MM too. It also has vastly more videos, coincidentally.

Are you really trying to tell me Skull Kid as a species is more iconic than Skull Kid as a character? Really? And not sure how being a "side story" makes any difference, especially when it's a direct continuation of the hero of time. Who is probably the most popular and we'll known incarnation of the character. Too the point where people call Link Hero of Time even if their not referring specifically to the Oot/MM Link. A lot of today's culture, especially gaming culture is on the internet, especially YouTube and Facebook.

This is getting almost as bad as the one time my little brother tried to tell me it's not a main series Zelda game if it doesn't have Kakariko village .

 

[Deleted member]

5. Junko with Monokuma

The biggest despair; meeting someone like Ganondorf.

 

[CroonerMike]

Kind of want Funky Kong as a Clone of Donkey Kong.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Kind of want Funky Kong as a Clone of Donkey Kong.

I'd prefer a semi-clone, but I've had the idea and wouldn't be bothered by it, myself.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Would it be completely absurd to think we might get Masked Man or Giygas? For the former, there's been recognition of the demand for Mother 3 by Nintendo and both of them would be very unique villain characters as opposed to the more bulky monsters like K Rool, Pig Ganon or, at least relatedly, Ridley. Admittedly Masked Man might come off as PK Meta Knight and there are people who think Giygas would be a Mewtwo clone, but neither has to be the case.

Also I really want Giygas to have a Final Smash where he turns the skybox of whatever stage he's in into the wailing fetus texture from Earthbound, but that might just be me.

Edit: I'm not say Pig Ganon's design would be generic, I'm just saying it might come off as repetitive having all the fat beasts given Bowser, DK and Dedede.

 

[osby]

Would it be completely absurd to think we might get Masked Man or Giygas? For the former, there's been recognition of the demand for Mother 3 by Nintendo and both of them would be very unique villain characters as opposed to the more bulky monsters like K Rool, Pig Ganon or, at least relatedly, Ridley. Admittedly Masked Man might come off as PK Meta Knight and there are people who think Giygas would be a Mewtwo clone, but neither has to be the case.

Also I really want Giygas to have a Final Smash where he turns the skybox of whatever stage he's in into the wailing fetus texture from Earthbound, but that might just be me.

Edit: I'm not say Pig Ganon's design would be generic, I'm just saying it might come off as repetitive having all the fat beasts given Bowser, DK and Dedede.

I'd be cool I guess but Sakurai seems to rarely look into discontinued series for characters unless they have a big impact for their hardware. Which I can understand, there are so many characters out there that it's a bit hard to do otherwise. Also,while they can be more unique, they are less recognizable than the other villains you listed, which isn't a plus.

I'm not trying to shoot you down, it's just really doesn't seem plausible.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Would it be completely absurd to think we might get Masked Man or Giygas? For the former, there's been recognition of the demand for Mother 3 by Nintendo and both of them would be very unique villain characters as opposed to the more bulky monsters like K Rool, Pig Ganon or, at least relatedly, Ridley. Admittedly Masked Man might come off as PK Meta Knight and there are people who think Giygas would be a Mewtwo clone, but neither has to be the case.

Also I really want Giygas to have a Final Smash where he turns the skybox of whatever stage he's in into the wailing fetus texture from Earthbound, but that might just be me.

Edit: I'm not say Pig Ganon's design would be generic, I'm just saying it might come off as repetitive having all the fat beasts given Bowser, DK and Dedede.

Personally, I don't actually mind having another big body character like Bowser, DK, or DDD. I think having 4 would be interesting. A neat point to note is up until Sm4sh, each new installment of Smash added one big body to the cast: DK=64, Bowser=Melee, DDD=Brawl. I think it'd be cool to get one more for this installment to have a different one available for each player in a regular 4-player Smash, or 2v2 setting.

Now, would it be confusing to have Ganon and Ganondorf in the same roster?

....Eh, nah. We already have several characters that share names. Ganon and Ganondorf wouldn't be so bad.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Kind of want Funky Kong.

Fixed it for you.
Funky Kong is one of my secret bets. I would even say his chances are higher than K. Rool and maybe Dixie.

Would it be completely absurd to think we might get Masked Man or Giygas? For the former, there's been recognition of the demand for Mother 3 by Nintendo and both of them would be very unique villain characters as opposed to the more bulky monsters like K Rool, Pig Ganon or, at least relatedly, Ridley. Admittedly Masked Man might come off as PK Meta Knight and there are people who think Giygas would be a Mewtwo clone, but neither has to be the case.

The Mother series do not have a future at the moment, so two playable characters is already great and should stay at that. I believe 100% that it's absurd to think we will get G or MM.
Except if Mother 4 (not fan made) releases someday. Then we'll see.

 

[Polan]

Skull Kid is so unrecognizable that a fan animation of his origin story managed to pull in 5.8 million views, thousands of comments and Nintendo's recognition. Truly no one knows who he is.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I've done a lot of research, and when it comes to highly successful Nintendo IPs that include viable characters (So not Nintendogs, Tomodachi, or Brain Age), I've come to find only three that are definitely successful and have viable candidates.

• Splatoon
• Rhythm Heaven
• Excitebike

I guess technically you could count Arms, but that game hasn't been out for even a year and it was well after Smash 5 probably began development. And then there are retro games with only a single installment like Balloon Fighter and Mach Rider.

What about Wii Party? The first game sold over 9million copies, and the sequel sold over 1.5million copies (which is pretty good for a Wii U game).

Party Phil for Smash!

 

[NintenRob]

Nintendo's recognition

Wait really? That's awesome. What did Nintendo do?

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Majora's Mask is absolutely recognizable to the hardcore gaming community...but it's certainly not an iconic figure to the gaming community as a whole.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Majora's Mask is absolutely recognizable to the hardcore gaming community...but it's certainly not an iconic figure to the gaming community as a whole.

I don't know. The moon falling in that game is a pretty huge meme.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

If we're talking about recognizability then that's not a negative in Skull Kid's book, in fact that's his biggest advantage over every other Zelda candidate. Anyone who has dipped his toes in Nintendo fan culture has seen something from Majora's Mask, whether it's the moon, a "Dawn of the Final Day" picture before something hype is coming up, or just the iconic imagery of the mask itself, these things are even posted in gaming communities not related to Nintendo. The recent remake has also helped bring these things to younger audiences aswell.

Majora's Mask isn't just some cult side game, even if it's a side story it's a more iconic game than a lot of the main story games. Now I don't want to make it sound like I'm overestimating his popularity too much, because obviously he's nowhere near the Triforce trio, but he's still a lot more recognizable than his competition.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So I figured why not. These are some of the chars Id like to see in smash that I feel might have a chance (most are left field tho) and I dont see any of them talked about lately so why not talk about a few of them?
1. Fossil Fighter
2. Medusa
3. King K Rool
4. Takamaru
5. Junko with Monokuma
6. Phoenix Wright

Well my opinions on each

1. A Fossil Fighter character may be interesting if their gameplay revolves around finding and resurrecting fossils (the series is called "We Are Fossil Hunters!" in Japan after all) but I'm not sure how it would work (nor am I sure why Nintendo publishes another Mon game when they have Pokemon but I'm no business-person)
2. Medusa is a tricky case as not only is she coming from a smaller series, she's also competing against two other antagonists: Viridi and Hades. Both of which have a lot more personality than her unfortunately but you never know, seniority may win out.
3. Aside from the fact he wasn't the baddie in the Returns Duology, given his Mii costume they know of his popularity. They'd be stubborn not to at this point.
4. He was dropped last time due to a lack of recognition but he's had VC releases since then so that's something.
5. I don't think they'd do a 3rd party character quite as fundamentally spoilerific as that. Did they release any Danganrompa games on Nintendo consoles BTW?
6. Definitely a character who's associated with Nintendo despite not being made by them. I hope they can capture his gameplay essence in Smash if he is in.

 

[papagenos]

If we're talking about recognizability then that's not a negative in Skull Kid's book, in fact that's his biggest advantage over every other Zelda candidate. Anyone who has dipped his toes in Nintendo fan culture has seen something from Majora's Mask, whether it's the moon, a "Dawn of the Final Day" picture before something hype is coming up, or just the iconic imagery of the mask itself, these things are even posted in gaming communities not related to Nintendo. The recent remake has also helped bring these things to younger audiences aswell.

Majora's Mask isn't just some cult side game, even if it's a side story it's a more iconic game than a lot of the main story games. Now I don't want to make it sound like I'm overestimating his popularity too much, because obviously he's nowhere near the Triforce trio, but he's still a lot more recognizable than his competition.

Agreed, even if someone like say Impa is in way more zelda games and has been there from the start.... truth is your average person doesn't know who Impa is but if they saw the iconic Majoras Mask they'd instantly know "thats from Zelda".

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Agreed, even if someone like say Impa is in way more zelda games and has been there from the start.... truth is your average person doesn't know who Impa is but if they saw the iconic Majoras Mask they'd instantly know "thats from Zelda".

As much as I love Impa this is definitely true, same with midna, and tetra even, these are characters that are iconic and recognizable to the gaming community at large

 

[NintenRob]

If we're talking about recognizability then that's not a negative in Skull Kid's book, in fact that's his biggest advantage over every other Zelda candidate. Anyone who has dipped his toes in Nintendo fan culture has seen something from Majora's Mask, whether it's the moon, a "Dawn of the Final Day" picture before something hype is coming up, or just the iconic imagery of the mask itself, these things are even posted in gaming communities not related to Nintendo. The recent remake has also helped bring these things to younger audiences aswell.

Majora's Mask isn't just some cult side game, even if it's a side story it's a more iconic game than a lot of the main story games. Now I don't want to make it sound like I'm overestimating his popularity too much, because obviously he's nowhere near the Triforce trio, but he's still a lot more recognizable than his competition.

Agreed, even if someone like say Impa is in way more zelda games and has been there from the start.... truth is your average person doesn't know who Impa is but if they saw the iconic Majoras Mask they'd instantly know "thats from Zelda".

So much truth here, there's good reason why the mask was among the first dlc added in both Smash for and Breath of the Wild.

 

[smashkirby]

It would be really cool to see Sheriff as the final character reveal followed by an announcement that his game will be released on Nintendo Switch by Arcade Archives.

I didn't think much of his chances because I didn't see a lot of potential in what is essentially a cowboy, but there are a lot of western related toys/games by Nintendo to incorporate into his move set, as well as the unique ability to shoot bullets in eight directions. Possibly even other games like Sky Skipper can be incorporated too.

I can see him being this game's legacy character as the first ever Nintendo character. Possibly adopting that classic cartoon look you see on the arcade cabinets, to make his design true to his age.
View attachment 143050
Still a 3D model, but with white skin and retaining the cartoony facial features.

I actually REALLY rooted for him pre-Smash 4, so I was both disappointed and excited that he made it into Smash... as an AT.

On the topic of historical retro reps, are there even any more retro characters relevant to Nintendo's history who could make it into Smash as a playable character?

Mini-Kangaroo
Daitoryo
Excitebiker

.....Just to name a few.

Characters more likely than you think #8: Sheriff?
Character: Sheriff (A.K.A. "Mr. Jack" or "Our Hero")
Universe: Sheriff/Bandido
Debut: 1979
Role: Legacy Character

History:
Sheriff is the first Nintendo character ever. In a video game at least. It is not the first Nintendo video game, but he is the first character. When his game came out, Western themed arcade games were a trend. So that's something else that makes Sheriff a good representative.
View attachment 143057
The Cast: Mr. Jack (The Sheriff), Betty (The Damsel), Gang (The Bandits), Condor (The Vulture)

Sheriff is an arcade game that was released in 1979 by Nintendo. In the game, you must save the recently kidnapped woman by shooting the bandits that surround your player. Once they're all gone, another group of bandits will appear and you must start over until you complete the game. Once you beat the game, a heart will go above your player and the woman (indicating that they've fallen in love). The game's characters were designed by Shigeru Miyamoto.
- (Nintendo Fandom Wiki: http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Sheriff)

Another version of the game titled Bandido was distributed by Exidy in 1980. The only difference is in the game's cabinet, sporting a different title and a "Cast of Characters" panel naming the girl "Pretty Priscilla", while calling the Sheriff "Our Hero" and showing Wanted signs for the bandit and the condor.
- (Nintendo Fandom Wiki: http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Sheriff)

Other appearances

• Game Boy Camera: An animation based on Sheriff can be found in the credits menu.
• Super Smash Bros. Melee: Sheriff appears as a trophy.
• WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Microgame$!: One of 9-Volt´s mini-games is based on Sheriff and a game known as Wario´s Sheriff, with Sheriff´s head replaced with Wario´s, can be unlocked.
• WarioWare, Inc.: Mega Party Game$: This cameo is the same as the cameo in the original WarioWare.
• Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS: Sheriff makes an appearance as an assist trophy and shoots at fighters in one of 8 directions.

- (Nintendo Fandom Wiki: http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Sheriff)

What makes Sheriff unique?:
Sheriff is the first character with EIGHT directional attacks, on the ground and in the air. His bullet pack a lot of power and this turns a larger portion of the arena into his territory (and he is very serious about protecting his territory).

Specials:

• Neutral Special: Light Beam Gun (This was a toy by Nintendo in the very early 70's.)
• Side Special: Rogue (These are the Bandits in the game)
• Down Special: Barrier (These are the walls that have numbers on them. They can be used as a shield until the number hits zero)
• Up Special: Condor (Condor is the Vulture)
• Final Smash: Sheriff becomes his original pixel form. This Final Smash functions just like the Assist Trophy.

Music:

The Case:
Sheriff is something different this time around. His game was not successful, but there are not a lot of successful legacy characters remaining. I believe this time Super Smash Bros is going to do something a little different, and go for an intentionally obscure, yet historically significant character, like Sheriff.

Sheriff is the oldest character (by 39 years), his game was exclusively an arcade game, and it's a game that can't be played without an emulator, unlike other retro games that can be bought in stores or downloaded from Nintendo's shop channels. This provides an appeal that is not obtained by other characters in this day and age.

I think the timing is good. There is a shortage of easy pickings, and I think at least one of the newcomers is going to be a character who's NOT known to many people, but still has great historical significance to Nintendo's history.

Nice moveset for Sheriff here! Really keeps to the mechanics of his game!

It's kind of hard to predict Retro/WTF (Hardware) characters as a whole, so I can see why people would sleep on Sheriff.

I know it's crazy, but this time around I see him having a chance at being playable. Then again, I AM a sucker for any and all retros.

On the subject of ROB, Professor Hector/Vector would be interesting to see.

That'd be SO awesome! I supported these two pre-Smash 4, and had the idea that they would either fight in a giant R.O.B.-like mech, or they would simply be to Smash Bros. what Dr. Bosconovitch was to Tekken!

 

[Deleted member]

I think Skull Kid is not as unlikely as we think Skull Kid is.
I mean, Skull Kid is one of the most popular Zelda characters and is more popular than the champions.
A BOTW character will probably have a higher chance, but who knows?

 

[Antimatter042]

So I figured why not. These are some of the chars Id like to see in smash that I feel might have a chance (most are left field tho) and I dont see any of them talked about lately so why not talk about a few of them?
1. Fossil Fighter
2. Medusa
3. King K Rool
4. Takamaru
5. Junko with Monokuma
6. Phoenix Wright

1. Fossil Fighter I can potenially see as a wildcard among newer IPs, I question whether they have enough traction to really grow into something Sakurai would consider for Smash Bros though: nothing in the last 4 years doesn't bode too well but it's not impossible. I know nothing about the series though so I may be missing something here.
   
2. Medusa is really unlikely in my opinion. She may have been the final boss of the original game, but her Smash translatable incarnation was Uprising: where she was disposed of less than halfway into the game. Seniority can't help her when Hades and Viridi totally supercede her in moveset potential, current importance to the series (which is admittedly dormant anyway) and personality. Kid Icarus is probably not getting any more newcomers this game but if it does, Uprising personalities are the frontrunners.
   
3. King K Rool lives or dies by how relevant the ballot aftermath is, but I'd say he's pretty likely based on his Mii Costume in 4 using seemingly new assets and some really strong fan support online. I have little doubts that he placed well among Nintendo characters in the ballot anyway, even if he wasn't a winner overall.
4. Takamaru has had somewhat of a renaissance in recognisability since Smash 4's roster was picked. Between mid-2012 and now; Nintendo Land, an international 3DS VC Release and even his own Assist Trophy being one of the higher quality ones all bode well. The idea of this game's Ice Climbers/Pit/Little Mac reuniting the Famicom 4 also makes me warm and fuzzy.
5. Genuinely no idea who this is, replies further up the thread suggested Danganronpa, which I know nothing about even in terms of premise. Can't comment on the specifics but I was sure Danganronpa games have only been on Playstation systems and I don't know if the series is iconic enough for Smash's 3rd Parties.
   
6. Phoenix Wright, in my opinion, has too much competition from other Capcom stars if a 3rd Capcom character is up for consideration. Namely, I think Monster Hunter is a very likely candidate for this game given the series extremely good prominence on Nintendo consoles and its popularity. I don't think Phoenix is completely doomed in moveset potential, but characters like Monster Hunter, Amaterasu, Zero and even a Resident Evil character (if they're feeling brave) all stomp him in that category.

 

[Jak_spoon]

I think Skull Kid is not as unlikely as we think Skull Kid is.
I mean, Skull Kid is one of the most popular Zelda characters and is more popular than the champions.
A BOTW character will probably have a higher chance, but who knows?

There is no one to pull from BotW. People are going for the champions because they're reaching for anything at this point. Come Smash 6 not a single person will be rooting for them. Not only that, people don't seem to realize that the champions have had "some" spot light before. This isn't the first time people have proposed Gorons and Zoras and they have been rejected.

On another note I think Sakurai is going to throw everyone off guard with his selection of the retro and wtf/hardware characters. I think the idea is going to stay because it is good to not only pick characters that are "so hot right now" but also include older characters so that you can appeal to more of an audience. But I think people are trapped in this idea that they must be NES or older. Which strikes a few problems. One If they always pull from NES they're going to run out of characters for future installments of Smash. (This is the same reason I don't expect to see Spring Man because Smash 6 needs to be able to boast a new IP too.) Also, if this is your tactic you also have this problem where you are appealing to the younger generation and the 40 year old generation which leaves this huge age gap for your audience. (And spoilers that gap constitutes the majority of Smash fans)

That being said I'm 100% confident that Excite Biker will be added. I think Sakurai learned with ROB that people need to be able to recognize the character or else there will be a lot of backlash.

But I think that other slot will go to a retro character that's not as old as you think like Isaac, Saki, Ray, and so on. I expect this choice to be the character that Sakurai can imagine the most diverse moveset for.

 

[Cosmic77]

I think Skull Kid is not as unlikely as we think Skull Kid is.
I mean, Skull Kid is one of the most popular Zelda characters and is more popular than the champions.
A BOTW character will probably have a higher chance, but who knows?

The problem with Skull Kid is that he's been around for such a long time and he still hasn't gotten in. This would technically be his FOURTH chance to get in a Smash game, and even though he recently appeared in a remake, there's still Midna who could steal his spot.

Personally, I don't think his odds are too high. Very rarely will Sakurai go back and add an older character to a franchise with a lot of reps. Most of the time, he ends up picking the relevant and more modern characters over older ones. Yeah, you could bring up Skull Kid's MM remake, but have remakes worked well for characters in the past? Impa and Toon Zelda/Tetra didn't get in when their game got a remake. Would Skull Kid be different?

At the very least, I'll say his odds are better than what they were in Smash 4. It ain't much, but it's something.

There is no one to pull from BotW. People are going for the champions because they're reaching for anything at this point. Come Smash 6 not a single person will be rooting for them. Not only that, people don't seem to realize that the champions have had "some" spot light before. This isn't the first time people have proposed Gorons and Zoras and they have been rejected.

Just because you can't see the potential in them doesn't mean others can't as well. Believe it or not, some people genuinely like the Champions and think they'd be nice additions to the roster.

Surprising, I know.

 

[osby]

This is the same reason I don't expect to see Spring Man because Smash 6 needs to be able to boast a new IP too.

I don't think Sakurai looks at Smash as a series where he can easily withhold content to edd into the next game. Each game takes way too much time and effort for it and more than once he said he makes each game as it is his last one. If Spring Man doesn't get in, it wouldn't be because he is waiting for Smash 6. There's no such thing as Smash 6.

That being said I'm 100% confident that Excite Biker will be added. I think Sakurai learned with ROB that people need to be able to recognize the character or else there will be a lot of backlash.

R.O.B. is now a pretty liked character. It also didn't prevent obscure characters like Ice Climbers or Roy to be fan favourites. You're right about recognizability being an important factor but it's not everything. I development team couldn't figure out how a character, like one who is constantly riding a bike, can fight, then they couldn't get in.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

My problem with skull kid (besides him not getting in by now) is I really don't think Sakurai sees Moveset potential for him. He's really just known for playing tricks via a hex or curse and that's what his assist trophy does. Even in Hyrule Warriors the two faries do more of the fighting (and I don't expect them to be a significant part of his Moveset if he were to get in).

And yea people need to stop saying the Champions are just relevant because of the games and nobody really wants them. They're just like any other popular one off character and I will still love Urbosa come smash 6. However I do think her chances (and any of the other champions) are higher now than they will be for the next smash game, the same way I feel for previous one shot Zelda characters.

 

[UserKev]

For a retro character how about Mach Rider? They'd be cool!

Mach Rider is actually my most wanted next retro character.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I wonder how well Skull Kid did in the ballot.