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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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viewtifulduck82

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Watch the trailer again. He specifically states they're weaker versions of the moves. Meaning it's likely any instakill ones are gone. They've also all been rebalanced as well. It's clear Sakurai revamped FSs with this in mind. And we do know how the meter fills. Watch the trailer. It fills only when you get hit. How quickly, not so sure, but it doesn't seem too different from super in other fighting games.

Also, all FSs don't have to be identical in power for them to be balanced, it's clear some will be stronger than others, and some easier to dodge, and others hard to judge. But it can make certain possible lower tier characters more viable if their FS is particularly strong, and vice versa. I don't see the point of tossing the baby out with the bathwater, and just completely deciding not to give them a chance before we have the game in our hands. It's more than evident that Sakurai wants people to play with these more, and he even went out of his way to make them more competitively viable. Rebalancing all of them, and removing the RNG factor.

I will be super pissed the community decides they don't wanna play with FS if they are fair and viable, just cause they're so used to playing the game without them. This is the way I and many people have been wanting FS since forever, and at their current state, they don't seem any more crazy than Mac's KO Punch, or Cloud's Limit Breaks. If those two are in the game, there's not much of a reason to get pissy over Final Smashes. The reason previously was the RNG factor. That's gone now. And other fighting games do Super Moves just fine, some even having instakills.
It's not going to happen and for good reason. In that same clip where he says they're weaker, marth kills Lucas at 20% in FFA, the mode where attacks are WEAKER.

You'll have people like bayo using FULL SCREEN WITCH TIME, or just killing you if you're above a certain percent with the cinematic.

Yeah it'll probably be fine for casual fun, but it has no place in the competitive scene as it is now.
 

QrowinSP

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Idea for how to do adventure mode:

There is a huge pool of stages that you could potentially go through, and each character has their own unique set, and each one fights one of a pool of different bosses at the end. When you beat all of the adventure mode campaigns, you can then choose to play a long string of all of them, which can be played with any character. There is also a boss rush.
 

TamaskaLEM

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Stage Morph and Final Smash Meter are the two largest changes for smash bros' meta. I really do hope both are included in competitive smash.
 

Zeox

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Ok, so apparently the whole "Heroes vs. Villains" thing is shaping up to be true with stuff like Ridley and K. Rool's trailer. The only one of the OG 8 to not have a rival/villain is Yoshi. @Zinith I think Boshi actually stands a chance.
Actually Yoshi's villain is Bowser... well, more specific, baby bowser, which looks very similar to Bowser Jr., who is in smash.
But, the original characters were 12, no 8.
 
D

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On August 8th 2018, on the Super Smash Bros Ultimate Nintendo Direct, Series Director Masahiro Sakurai confirmed that Simon Belmon, protagonist from the Castlevania series, will be a playable figher in Super Smash Bros Ultimate for the Nintendo Switch.


In the eyes of many, Simon was a dark horse, an unexpected character that people didn't talked about. However, i have been someone that has been rooting for him for years, alongside many others, but we were never listened. So let me tell you a little story.

-The Journey. My own history with Simon Belmont and Castlevania-

Imagine if you will, a young boy living in a city from far country of Chile, where game piracy is rampant and in an era when the boy dind't exactly knew how to use the internet (and was too shy to ask for the new shiny console of that generation) the first time i ever played video games was with a wierd DVD disc that was called "Game Master 3000" or something like that, that included a collection of old NES games like Super Mario Bros and Mega Man.

I was an outlier, my exposure to game was mostly thanks to bootleg discs and the first console i ever owned was a Playstation (and in those years, the PS2 already was on the market and the 7th generation was approaching) and most of the Playstation games i woned were pirated copies, including one bootleg collection of NES games.

I can't remember exactly what was the first time i ever played a Castlevania game, but it was definetly one of the older ones. I think i remember playing the original one but never managed to pass the first stage, and i don't think i played Castlevania 1 again until i was a teenager that was already invested in the series.

Anyhow, what this means is that my gaming tastes and preferences were based upon games from an era i didn't even existed. This also applied to videos of games i watched. I didn't look for videos of games like Call of Duty, but rather something like Mega Man X. This is where i found videos of games in Youtube, from Top 10s to walkthroughs to let's plays to finally, video reviews.

And that is how is stumbled upon the videos of the Angry Video Game Nerd. I already heard of him before thanks to the Nostalgia Critic and his rivalry with him, and decided to check his videos.

Remember i was like, 10, having a guy swearing and saying very specific graphic stuff was enternatining to me. Upon his videos, there it was, a series of videos talking about the Casltevania series. From 1 to Symphony of the Night. He gushed about how much he loved the series, namely Super Castlevania 4, and that made me interesed in playing it in full detail.

This is where my appreciation for Super Castlevania 4 and the franchise in general, truly began. I booted up the Snes emulator with the Super Castlevania 4 rom, and played Super Castlevania 4. The ambient music, the refined controls, the dated and yet still charming artstyle made me love the game, and it has become possibly my favorite SNES game. It made look for more Castelvania goodness. Rondo of Blood, Dracula's Curse, Symphony of the Night, Aria of Sorrow, etc.

It should be noted that in those days i only played emulators and fangames, and i did not started supporting offical releases until 2013. Not because i didn't wanted to, but because i couldn't (i was a kid with no money, and i was too shy to ask my mother to buy me a game console until that year, and my father is well..............let's just say he's conservative when it comes to money and video games)

I made my mission, that if i ever got the chance to support the official releases of those games i played years ago, i would do it. When the SNES Classic was announced and i noticed it included Super Castlevania 4, i made i mission to get one, and so i did. After years of emulating it, i finally can claim i own the game in a legitimate manner.

But that was in 2017, and i think it's necessary to rewind the clock to way back in 2011. Why? Well because this is about Simon Belmont in Smash, of course.

-The dream. The Most Renowned Vampire Hunter for Smash-

By 2010 i owned a pirated copy of Brawl, and i loved playing it (even if i used a wiimote, and whenever i try to use it again nowadays i question myself how i even enjoyed Brawl with this control scheme) and like any child at my age, i started imagining what other characters could make it into Smash.

Fittingly enough, in the next year's E3, Satoru Iwata announced that Smash would arrive for the 3DS AND Wii U!............eventually. They didn't said when, they only said that it would happen.

and so began the Speculation period of Smash 4, where people started requesting and debating about characters. Who was gonna be in? Who's gonna be cut? How many are we getting?

Among the many speculated characters, you had Mega Man, Palutena, Little Mac, King K. Rool, Takamaru, Chrom, Ridley and many others.

Back in 2012, i was spitballing about what character could be a good idea in Smash. and then it hit me.............what about Simon Belmont? He could have an original moveset, he has history in gaming and is very closely tied with Nintendo! It just made sense to me in the same way Mega Man did.

In E3 2013, Smash 4 was unveiled to the public in all of it's glory, and showcased one of my favorite gaming characters and one of my most wanted newcomers: MEGA MAN!

It was that day, that my passion for seeing Simon was set. He was to me the next big third party that i thought that should get in Smash, and he was one of my top 5 most wanted alongside K.Rool, Waluigi, Mewtwo and Little Mac.


Around July 2013, i started lurking around Smashboards, making it the first time i ever started following a game during its pre-release period, and the first time i joined Smash speculation. I went there to look who were the most talked characters!.......and Simon was not one of them.

I mean i enjoyed seeing all the enthisuasm for K.Rool, Ridley and others, but Simon measily had like.....3 or 4 pages. Hell i remember people debating wheter or not Simon was the ideal choice for a Castlevania representative.

Why was Simon, the most prominent and recurring character of a very beloved gaming franchsie in the same level as Capcom's Mega Man, barely talked about as a possible inclusion in Smash?

Well, namely 2 reasons.

First and foremost, back in the pre-Smash 4 days, Third Party talk was more conservative, people didn't talked that much about non-Nintendo characters and those who were heavily speculated were the excpetion, not the norm.

With the excpetion of Pac-Man, third parties didn't have the same following as most of the heavily supported Nintendo newcomers (like K.Rool or even Isaac). The likes of Ryu suffered the same fate as Simon, Ryu Hayabusa from Ninja Gaiden was barely talked about, the likes of Crash and Bomberman were basically dead, Geno's Support was a shadow of its former Brawl self, most people gave up on Llyod when it was clear that Pac-Man was much more iconic, and there wasn't a big support for a Final Fantasy character (good luck in trying to get people to support Cloud for Smash.....in 2013-14) etc. Third Parties were talked about, but there weren't multiple big contenders as it is in more recent years.

"1 character per company" was a very prominent fan-rule during those days, and this alone killed most of Simon's support since Snake was already included. You had peole saying either Snake gets ditched and Simon gets added or that Snake stays and Simon is not allowed. Hell most people weren't even expecting Snake to return, so most people thought that why would Simon be inlcueded when they didn't even bothered to include Snake back?

Regardless of that though, i still kept hope within me, even if i dind't expected Simon to be included. I made sketches of movesets, stage ideas, and even hypothetical newcomer posters like the ones in the Smash 4 website.

However, i felt mostly isolated when it came to hype to Simon Belmont, because i barely remember anyone talking about him for the reasons stated above. I also think the state of the franchise was also an issue. It was more alive than Mega Man was, but not everybody was a fan of the Lords of Shadow games, which was the current style of Castlevania in the early 2010's.

Smash 4 speculation was a dark era for a Simon Belmont supporter. People barely talked about him and never gave him the respect he deserved.......or so i thought. The more i noticed, it seemed as if Simon's support was like a damp stain, slowly leaking (heh) people that were interesed in Simon, but not in an alarming pace.

When DLC happened, that's when i started seeing more support for Simon, and that was mostly thanks to Ryu's announcement, which single handedly KILLED the "1 character per company" fan-rule that was so prominent.

By July 2015, i joined Smashboards, and if one thing hasn't changed about me since that year, is that i was a big supporter of Simon Belmont. He was my personal choice, my most wanted character. While i supported many others like Bandanna Dee and Dixie, i supported those characters because their supporters sold me on the idea, while in Simon's case, i always supported him because I personally wanted him. I became the Owner of the Simon Belmont thread and gave it my own personal introductory post, mentioning Simon's strenghts and why he should be in Smash. This was when i became even more invested in the character, where my research helped me to believe that yes, Simon Belmont has all the qualities for an appealing character in Smash, and if there's ever gonna be a Casltevania Character, it WILL be HIM. I hoped that since that Fan-Rule was broken, more people would be on board.
Simon was still mostly a character that wasn't that talked about, mostly because a lot of supporters wanted to get Snake back first and foremost, but now i dind't felt like Snake was competition.

And yes, i voted for Simon in the Smash Ballot. By that point i was one of the most vocal Simon Belmont supporters.

However, another problem became apparent that was far, far worse.

In 2015, Konami's controversy reached its peak, where the whole Kojima fiasco was exposed and Konami became probably one of the most hated companies in that year, and the hatred can still be heard to this day.

What this meant for Simon and his supporters is that even if more fans of the Barbaric Whip-wielder came out of the woodwork, Simon (and Snake and Bomberman for that matter) were seen as borderline impossible because "Konami is EVIL" and anyone that wanted any of those characters in Smash supported Konami's bad actions (which doesn't make any sense, just because i wanted Mega Man in Smash doesn't mean i support every single thing Capcom does)

Another issue is that a lot of people were claiming Castlevania was "Dead". After Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2, the series entered into a hiatus that has lasted to this day (Mobile games and Pachinko Machines aside)

In the end, the Final Smash 4 Broadcast had no Simon nor Snake in Sight. Not that i expected Simon by that point, as i was convinced that he was a lost cause. For the entirity of 2016 and 2017, i didn't bothered with Smash Switch speculation. I no longer had the passion since i was burn out due to the whole Konami controversy. I didn't had the energy anymore.

That doesn't mean that i didn't keep track of what was going on though. In 2017, Bomberman became one of, if not THE most heavily Speculated Third Party newcomer for Smash, thanks to Super Bomberman R for the Nintendo Switch. This meant that Bomberman finally came back from the grave and had a recent game of its own, as opposed to Simon Belmont and Castlevania which were "Dead". However, there were a good chunk of people that were still skecptical about him due to he and his franchise beign part of Konami, and others questioned why would Sakurai go for Konami and ask for Bomberman, and yet would not even consider bringing Snake back.

In most disscussions, Bomeberman and Snake were to 2 most talked regarding Konami and Third Parties, while Simon was a third in the Konami department.


Then, in March 2018, it happened. Smash Switch was teased to the public, showcasing the Inlking staring at a big flaming Smash logo while the silhouettes of Mario and Link appeared. Smash Switch now was offical, it was coming..........in the same year it was announced. That wasn't the shocking part for me though.

Around that same month, a little fella called Vergeben said that Simon Belmont was going to be playable in Smash, alongside Ridley, the return of the Ice Climbers, and everyone was returning from Smash 4.

I actually heard of Vergeben back in November 2017, when he talked about stuff like SCVI and DMC V. There was a lot of controvery regarding the guy, but part of me was intersed in what he had to say, so much so that i kept track of his statements. I once remember thinking to myself......."You know, this guy seems to talk about a lot of Bandai-Namco related games, could he get information regarding Smash?"

Lo and behold, my though became true. Vergeben's statement of Simon became the sensation among Smash speculation. Even if you didn't believed him, talking about a character like Simon was very fresh after going back and forth with the likes of Springman or Decidueye.

This climate of Simon speculation was enough motivation for me to regain my passion for Simon and reclaim the Simon Belmont thread. Everything that i learned about Casltevania and him was put to use in my OP, where this time, i actually saw Simon was a fully plausible choice, and i went out of my way to debunk and refute any arguments against him. It felt so good seeing people talk about Simon, even if only a little.

Later down the line, Vergeben also mentioned Snake was retuning, essnetially making it a situation like with Mega Man and Ryu.

The wait for E3 was painful, no news were given, no teasers were shown, and all we could do was wait until June 12. So i did, and i saw Smash Ultimate, a game that truly deserves its subtitle. Every single character was back, and so it meant that Vergeben was right about the Icies, but that was easy to say. The
only reason they were not in Smash 4 was becuase of 3DS limitations, so they were always meant to be here.

But, what's that? Snake is back? SNAKE? even though Kojima and Konami no longer are toghether? A lot of people thought Snake wasn't gonna come back, so this was a pleasant su-IS THAT RIDLEY?


Yep, after beign brutally rejected in Smash 4, Ridley hit the BIG time in Ultimate. He always was a heavily requested character, but after Sakurai's statement aout him in Smash 4, most people lost hope.

So i only i had one question left...........where's Simon?

I was shattered, confused, frustrated that Simon was nowhere to be found. For no reason i took that as a discomfirmation, and i thought that maybe i just got hyped for no reason regarding Simon.

But even then, Vergy never said he was going to be at E3, but i was still worried. Even when Vergeben had a huge hatedom that, i still believed Vergeben to an extent.

Hell, even if Vergeben was ignored, Simon still had a lot going for him. Many of his merits became clearer than ever. He is the most prominent protagnoist of the Castlevania series, he represents the Belmont clan which is a VERY important part of the franchise, he appears in the most Casltevania games and Konami games (22 if you merge both) and he has the most games under his belt where he his the main playable hero (6 games in fact) and in most Konami crossovers like Wai Wai World and Dream Mix, he has been used as THE main and sole representative of the series.

Snake beign in Smash means that Konami is now on board, Ryu in Smash means that Third Party Companies can have more than one character, Bomberman's inclusion as an AT, while sad to me, meant that Simon no longer had competition with any other Konami character.


Even then though, you had a lot of people getting into war regarding Vergeben's statements, constatly turning into pointless flamewars. What's worse is that after E3, we didn't get a lot of news. It was basically back to Square One. At that point in time, i was legitmately expecting Simon Belmont to be playable, no regrets. It was so satisfying that for me, Simon was no longer a Pipedream, he was a legit candidate. My teenage years came and went, where i heavily dreamed for Simon in Smash, but it never materialized. But all of the sudden, it felt like an actual possibility, now it was the time, the chance, and i didn' want to let it go.

-The end. Simon Belmont makes it into Smash-

And im thankfull i didn't, because that dream finally became a reality. Simon is in Smash. It's not that i never believed that Simon could make it, is that most people around dind' seemed to believe in him. While the confirmation of other characters was like a celebration between the Smash Community, Simon's confirmation felt like a personal journey that has come to a close. I had hoped for him since i was 13, and after 5 years, that dream has become a reality.

But for me, this is just a step for another event. I have confidence that Castlevania one day, will return to its former gaming glory, just like Mega Man did with Mega Man 11 after appearing in Smash Bros.

In the same way Dracula and his Castle return to haunt during the night, Castlevania is meant to return to world of gaming one day.


I do wanna say thank you to those who were part of the Simon Belmont thread and stopped by to say hi. I always get a kick out of seeing people like the Castlevania series, thanks to Vergeben because even if he just had lucky guesses, his leaks regarding Simon helped me regain the passion i had, and thanks Sakurai for adding him.


and thank you for reading this.

-Tord The Red Leader.​
 

ZephyrZ

But.....DRAGONS
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And now that there's another dragon in the game......... WE NEED A DRAGONSLAYER!!!
Well if you ask me, the fewer dragon slayers we have the better. Let our reptile overlords reign supreme!

What I'm not biased you're biased.

To clarify, I'm just joking around. I've actually got nothing against your guy.
 
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D

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So, this has been asked before, but now that we have Ridley AND K,Rool, who the **** is the "OMG SAKURAI GIMME X"?
Banjo-Kazooie

No, I'm not even joking, they were pretty much next on the list in terms of ballot polls. Top 4 in the west iirc went Ridley, K.Rool, Banjo, Isaac. And in Japan, they were top 10, with everyone who was above them already being in the game already now, except for Geno. I'd have to double check.

But yeah, it'd be Banjo.
 

CaptainAmerica

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Well if you ask me, the fewer dragon slayers we have the better. Let our reptile overlords reign supreme!

What I'm not biased you're biased.
...I mean, you could always take the "Alduin finally calls upon his brothers for revenge" side too... I'm not picky as long as he's in.

That would also be sweet.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
It's not going to happen and for good reason. In that same clip where he says they're weaker, marth kills Lucas at 20% in FFA, the mode where attacks are WEAKER.

You'll have people like bayo using FULL SCREEN WITCH TIME, or just killing you if you're above a certain percent with the cinematic.

Yeah it'll probably be fine for casual fun, but it has no place in the competitive scene as it is now.
I'd say we have to wait and see once the game is out before making any judgements. Also, Mac's KO punch kills at stupid low levels as well, and is harder to dodge than Marth's FS, and Cloud gets an insta-kill at 60%. Seriously, if someone has a FS, literally bait it out and punish it. You know perfectly well when it's active.
 

Shadowwolflink

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Does anyone have a list of past stages that weren't shown? I noticed Planet Zebes, Sector Z, Poke Floats, Icicle Mountain, Rumble Falls, Miiverse, and I think Jingle Hijinx?
 

Shroob

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'member when Smash didn't really have any villains?

Ya I 'member.


:ultbowser::ultbowserjr::ultganondorf::ultwolf::ultridley::ultmewtwo::ultkingdedede: and Dark Samus and K.Rool too
 
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staindgrey

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Didn't like of the new comers unfortunately besides echo chrom
I don't plan on playing any of them besides Chrom, but I'm still happy for the fanbases who were craving them. There are a lot of Castlevania fans out there, and K. Rool has felt like he's been missing since Brawl. Now DK finally stands on somewhat equal footing with the other big franchises. Mario, Zelda, Kirby and Pokemon-- if we consider Mewtwo-- have all had their main baddies for awhile, plus side characters aplenty. DK finally has both Diddy and K. Rool. Good for DK fans.
 

monadoboy

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My best case scenario predictions for the remaining characters:
Unique:
Geno, Skull Kid, Elma, Isaac
Echoes:
Shadow, Isabelle, Cross, Boshi, Matthew

Since Elma wasn't here I'm low key expecting the triple Elma reveal in a general direct again. Cross is such an obvious choice for an Echo that I feel dumb for not considering it. They could have the two genders and they share VA/seiyuu with Shulk and Fiora so it's a very easy Echo to make.
If Elma gets in I hope she gets Sliding Slinger and slides off the stage with it lmao
 

monadoboy

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Where likely getting a Xenoblade 2 or X stage and possibly another character
As much as I want to believe in a second Xenoblade rep, Splatoon, Street Fighter and FF also have a section.
Unless an Octoling, a Zack and a Ken Echo happened...
 
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Mc.Rad

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Do you think future tracks may come up??? I'm not honestly not sure if everything in this direct may be "final"
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Here are some cool facts about thew newcomers in the direct.

  • Simon and Richter are the first pair of original character and clone introduced in the same game since Marth and Roy in Melee.
  • Dark Samus and King K. Rool are the second and third characters created by western developers respectively. The first is Diddy Kong.
  • Dark Samus is the second character to become playable after being an assist trophy. The first was Little Mac.
  • Chrom is the first and only character that was previously a part of another character's moveset.
  • Chrom is the first echo fighter to be based on a semi clone, being Roy.
  • Of the characters revealed, Dark Samus and Chrom are the only ones who debuted after the year 2000. Chrom is the only character to debut after the year 2010.
  • This direct revealed two villain newcomers. A first for the franchise.
  • Dark Samus is our first female villain (if you count her as female, I do).
  • Dark Samus is the only echo fighter based on a character who is part of the original twelve.
  • As of now, the final total number of antagonists are 11 (Dark Samus, Bowser, Ganondorf, Mewtwo, Meta Knight, Dark Pit, King Dedede, Wolf, Bowser Jr., Ridley and King K. Rool)
Did you see any facts that you found interesting?
 

Bradli Wartooth

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Where likely getting a Xenoblade 2 or X stage and possibly another character
I had wondered about that myself, but I felt it's also worth considering the fact that Xenoblade has a lot of music in Smash 4 already, who knows what that library will look like in Ultimate? Perhaps it was just considered too big to be crammed into the "Other" section.

Also, hello again everyone. I'm back after my several month hiatus bc this Direct was hype af :p
 

Shroob

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Here are some cool facts about thew newcomers in the direct.

  • Simon and Richter are the first pair of original character and clone introduced in the same game since Marth and Roy in Melee.
  • Dark Samus and King K. Rool are the second and third characters created by western developers respectively. The first is Diddy Kong.
  • Dark Samus is the second character to become playable after being an assist trophy. The first was Little Mac.
  • Chrom is the first and only character that was previously a part of another character's moveset.
  • Chrom is the first echo fighter to be based on a semi clone, being Roy.
  • Of the characters revealed, Dark Samus and Chrom are the only ones who debuted after the year 2000. Chrom is the only character to debut after the year 2010.
  • This direct revealed two villain newcomers. A first for the franchise.
  • Dark Samus is our first female villain (if you count her as female, I do).
  • Dark Samus is the only echo fighter based on a character who is part of the original twelve.
  • As of now, the final total number of antagonists are 11 (Dark Samus, Bowser, Ganondorf, Mewtwo, Meta Knight, Dark Pit, King Dedede, Wolf, Bowser Jr., Ridley and King K. Rool)
Did you see any facts that you found interesting?
Chrom is also the first(And currently only) Echo to have a different Special that we know about. And not just renamed like "Electroshock". He has straight up Aether.
 

Door Key Pig

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Another thing to the whole "all stages present = no new series newcomers" thing, it'd be kinda weird if there was just two new universe newcomers but they also put in the effort to put in one other whole universe rep just for a boss/boss stage/assist trophy.

Oh and actually, the first female villain character we had was one of the Koopalings as Bows Jr's alt.
 
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Blargg888

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"If a track has NO corresponding fighter or stage..."

And it's not just Xenoblade.
But if that's the case, then why are the Duck Hunt and Wii Fit themes in the "Other" section?

Both those series have a corresponding Fighter and Stage.
 

Shroob

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Hey I actually called 4 of the reveals yesterday, only missing Richter.

I'll take my complimentary internet cookie tyvm.
 
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