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Smash 3DS Smash Run doesn't support online play

EgeDal

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1) Memory wouldn't be the problem. If a 3DS can handle Smash Run with four people close to one another, it can handle Smash Run with four people not close to one another. Considering the fact that the characters are never next to one another until the very end, there is no necessary addition from another player's game significant enough to cite "memory" as the problem.

2) While I'm no expert, Smash Run's 2D landscape, simple AI and repetitive animations/character models make Smash Run appear easier on the console's hardware than Resident Evil Revelations or Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, both of which play online rather seamlessly.

IMO, this is an intentional design decision, not a limitation on the hardware. Nintendo has a culture in its development studios that if an experience could be more fun with people in the room, they'd rather not taint it with online functionality unless it's absolutely necessary to sell copies. Look to NSMBU, Pikmin 3, SM3DW, Starfox 64 3D & Hyrule Warriors as examples of them doing this, and Rayman Legends, Starfox Command and every other last-gen Dynasty Warriors as examples of similar games on similar platforms that prove online functionality worked just fine.
THANK YOU so much, i was just too fed up to explain, but you made it super clear.

Also adding: Massive online games are using much more simultaneous data than mini smash bros.
 
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SmashHole '82

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1) Memory wouldn't be the problem. If a 3DS can handle Smash Run with four people close to one another, it can handle Smash Run with four people not close to one another. Considering the fact that the characters are never next to one another until the very end, there is no necessary addition from another player's game significant enough to cite "memory" as the problem.

2) While I'm no expert, Smash Run's 2D landscape, simple AI and repetitive animations/character models make Smash Run appear easier on the console's hardware than Resident Evil Revelations or Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, both of which play online rather seamlessly.

IMO, this is an intentional design decision, not a limitation on the hardware. Nintendo has a culture in its development studios that if an experience could be more fun with people in the room, they'd rather not taint it with online functionality unless it's absolutely necessary to sell copies. Look to NSMBU, Pikmin 3, SM3DW, Starfox 64 3D & Hyrule Warriors as examples of them doing this, and Rayman Legends, Starfox Command and every other last-gen Dynasty Warriors as examples of similar games on similar platforms that prove online functionality worked just fine.
I meant the online servers being able enough to support Smash Run.
 

RazorsawTF

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You guys gotta take certain things into account. Not only is the memory thing likely an issue, wireless co-op (read: not online) is a bigger deal in Japan than it is in the US. So from Nintendo's perspective, this isn't exactly too huge of a loss.
 

Captain Norris

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1) Memory wouldn't be the problem. If a 3DS can handle Smash Run with four people close to one another, it can handle Smash Run with four people not close to one another. Considering the fact that the characters are never next to one another until the very end, there is no necessary addition from another player's game significant enough to cite "memory" as the problem.

2) While I'm no expert, Smash Run's 2D landscape, simple AI and repetitive animations/character models make Smash Run appear easier on the console's hardware than Resident Evil Revelations or Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, both of which play online rather seamlessly.

IMO, this is an intentional design decision, not a limitation on the hardware. Nintendo has a culture in its development studios that if an experience could be more fun with people in the room, they'd rather not taint it with online functionality unless it's absolutely necessary to sell copies. Look to NSMBU, Pikmin 3, SM3DW, Starfox 64 3D & Hyrule Warriors as examples of them doing this, and Rayman Legends, Starfox Command and every other last-gen Dynasty Warriors as examples of similar games on similar platforms that prove online functionality worked just fine.
What this Guy said. Kid Icarus: Uprising is insane online, and it plays pretty well. It is just a huge disappointment that was not needed.
 

VKatana

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1) Memory wouldn't be the problem. If a 3DS can handle Smash Run with four people close to one another, it can handle Smash Run with four people not close to one another. Considering the fact that the characters are never next to one another until the very end, there is no necessary addition from another player's game significant enough to cite "memory" as the problem.

2) While I'm no expert, Smash Run's 2D landscape, simple AI and repetitive animations/character models make Smash Run appear easier on the console's hardware than Resident Evil Revelations or Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, both of which play online rather seamlessly.

IMO, this is an intentional design decision, not a limitation on the hardware. Nintendo has a culture in its development studios that if an experience could be more fun with people in the room, they'd rather not taint it with online functionality unless it's absolutely necessary to sell copies. Look to NSMBU, Pikmin 3, SM3DW, Starfox 64 3D & Hyrule Warriors as examples of them doing this, and Rayman Legends, Starfox Command and every other last-gen Dynasty Warriors as examples of similar games on similar platforms that prove online functionality worked just fine.
Some fine points raised, and I think when you really boil it down there will come a point in time where Nintendo is going to have to accept the newfound culture of online gaming with strangers OR friends to keep up the pace against Sony and Microsoft, and PC Gaming for that matter. Online capabilities are one of the new basic features of modern gaming, and sooner or later Nintendo will adapt to this. As I said, they are a company, and they exist to make money (while also pleasing their fans).
 

SilverSoul24

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I'm pretty flabbergasted myself, but I can't say I shouldn't have seen it coming, with how against the stream Nintendo is with online functionality. Still, like you said though, it's amazing that a feature that's been touted this much isn't even online-compatible. The only good reason I can think of for this is sheer carelessness.

*South Park movie trailer voice*
"Whatever, you'll buy it anyway. Rated PG13."

I mean, sure, there were probably technical issues, but one would think they'd find a way to work around those (such as changing how the mode works, fundamentally) if they were going to go this far in advertising it.
Yeah, I'm starting to realize that perhaps Sakurai bit off more than he could chew for a handheld Smash game. The removal of Smash Run's online features and, seemingly, a few characters seem to betray this. I wouldn't feel so disappointed if they hadn't made promises for the sake of getting our hopes up. Meh. I'm still going to enjoy Smash Run. Honestly, I think the time limit is great for when I want quick little bursts of Smash in-between classes or when I'm on break at work. At the same time, though, I was really looking forward to its online mode. Nothing I'll lose sleep over, though.

And I'm glad Nintendo is at least humble enough to not adopt that "Whatever, you'll buy it anyway" attitude. Actually, if they ever did that, they'd be losing a customer of nearly twenty years. But I don't think they will.
 

SSBBphenom

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I will honestly be disapointed if Stage Builder is the only real Wii U exclusive mode.
Well, I hadn't even considered that a possibility but i'm gonna start assuming that it is the only exclusive mode now so that I won't be disappointed when it's released. I'll also go ahead and assume the connectivity function they haven't announced yet is transferring stages you made in Stage Builder. :(

While I really hope this isn't the case, now I feel/fear the most we'll get as far as Wii U exclusivity is Stage Builder and Melee Adventure mode to replace SSE... I need to be wrong here.
 

SmashWolf

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I suppose you were hoping for more Big 3 and less clones? The clones are a good way to deliver more content with a time constraint based on the release date.
What you told me is exactly what I've been trying to tell others about the clones, so no. 5 clones are barely the work of 1 original character. Duck Hunt Dog, ROB, Wii Fit Trainer, Mii's and all these "suprise" characters just to shock people make this a terribly lame roster. It's like for every good newcomer, we get 3 crappy ones.

Hell, if they cut out the Mii's they put so insanely much effort into, we could've had Mewtwo, Ridley, AND Isaac/King K.Rool/Dixie/whoever in their placement. Or maybe replace the effort put into Mii's and use it to make Smash Run Online. Y'know, something important. You weren't gonna let Mii's go online anyway, why waste the effort? Same could be said about customization of moves, to a lesser degree. >.>;

While I'm no expert, Smash Run's 2D landscape, simple AI and repetitive animations/character models make Smash Run appear easier on the console's hardware than Resident Evil Revelations or Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, both of which play online rather seamlessly.
Absolutely correct. With a different netcode, it could literally play with 0 control input lag since players don't interact with each other actively untill the event itself. It'd work exactly like Mario Kart Wii/7/8. There was no reason, period, for this to be excluded other than Nintendo's lack of decent priorities.
 

VKatana

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You guys gotta take certain things into account. Not only is the memory thing likely an issue, wireless co-op (read: not online) is a bigger deal in Japan than it is in the US. So from Nintendo's perspective, this isn't exactly too huge of a loss.
While this is a good point, the versions are sadly region locked as is seemingly custom for Nintendo. The US version COULD have online capability even if the Japanese version didn't. If Nintendo was willing to go the extra mile, that is.
 

SmashHole '82

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1) Memory wouldn't be the problem. If a 3DS can handle Smash Run with four people close to one another, it can handle Smash Run with four people not close to one another. Considering the fact that the characters are never next to one another until the very end, there is no necessary addition from another player's game significant enough to cite "memory" as the problem.

2) While I'm no expert, Smash Run's 2D landscape, simple AI and repetitive animations/character models make Smash Run appear easier on the console's hardware than Resident Evil Revelations or Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate, both of which play online rather seamlessly.

IMO, this is an intentional design decision, not a limitation on the hardware. Nintendo has a culture in its development studios that if an experience could be more fun with people in the room, they'd rather not taint it with online functionality unless it's absolutely necessary to sell copies. Look to NSMBU, Pikmin 3, SM3DW, Starfox 64 3D & Hyrule Warriors as examples of them doing this, and Rayman Legends, Starfox Command and every other last-gen Dynasty Warriors as examples of similar games on similar platforms that prove online functionality worked just fine.
I meant the online servers being able enough to support Smash Run.
...You don't know how servers work.
I was also talking more about data, since it takes more of it for Smash run, than a versus match of the same length.
 

EgeDal

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I meant the online servers being able enough to support Smash Run.

I was also talking more about data, since it takes more of it for Smash run, than a versus match of the same length.
Stop talking like you know a lot about data, it just slightly takes more, only because it transfers the data of enemy kills and power-up gains. Otherwise it's the same thing, duh come on it's my major in college.
 

staindgrey

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I meant the online servers being able enough to support Smash Run.

I was also talking more about data, since it takes more of it for Smash run, than a versus match of the same length.
Alright, I'm going to be as polite as possible in saying this, because I hope you genuinely learn and grow from this:

You don't know what you're talking about at all here. Like, seriously. At all. You have a right to your opinions, but when you base an opinion on random words you've heard before without any knowledge or context to apply to their usage, you sound stupid. I'm sure you're an intelligent person with a lot to offer the world, but everything you've said in this thread has been misinformed, ignorant or completely and objectively wrong.

It would be in your best interest to either learn about a topic before stating an opinion on it, or just not state a firm opinion at all. This approach would benefit you greatly in life, not just in a message board.
 

Jae

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Weeks of PotDs dedicated to this mode, hyped up to be the "biggest feature" that the 3DS has exclusively and then it gets confirmed to be local play only.
 

FalconSoup

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That's unfortunate. I was actually looking forward to playing this online.
 

EgeDal

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Alright, I'm going to be as polite as possible in saying this, because I hope you genuinely learn and grow from this:

You don't know what you're talking about at all here. Like, seriously. At all. You have a right to your opinions, but when you base an opinion on random words you've heard before without any knowledge or context to apply to their usage, you sound stupid. I'm sure you're an intelligent person with a lot to offer the world, but everything you've said in this thread has been misinformed, ignorant or completely and objectively wrong.

It would be in your best interest to either learn about a topic before stating an opinion on it, or just not state a firm opinion at all. This approach would benefit you greatly in life, not just in a message board.
Wow you're the nicest person on this forum! :O :)
 

mygamecube

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There's no point in Smash Run at all now, only to unlock trophies/clear challenges.

This is probably the more disappointing aspect of the game so far. The mode screamed online.
 

SmashHole '82

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Alright, I'm going to be as polite as possible in saying this, because I hope you genuinely learn and grow from this:

You don't know what you're talking about at all here. Like, seriously. At all. You have a right to your opinions, but when you base an opinion on random words you've heard before without any knowledge or context to apply to their usage, you sound stupid. I'm sure you're an intelligent person with a lot to offer the world, but everything you've said in this thread has been misinformed, ignorant or completely and objectively wrong.

It would be in your best interest to either learn about a topic before stating an opinion on it, or just not state a firm opinion at all. This approach would benefit you greatly in life, not just in a message board.
And what is your knowledge of the differences between Smash Run, and versus matches? I'd really like to know, because you clearly seem to know more than I do.
 
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VKatana

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What you told me is exactly what I've been trying to tell others about the clones, so no. 5 clones are barely the work of 1 original character. Duck Hunt Dog, ROB, Wii Fit Trainer, Mii's and all these "suprise" characters just to shock people make this a terribly lame roster. It's like for every good newcomer, we get 3 crappy ones.

Hell, if they cut out the Mii's they put so insanely much effort into, we could've had Mewtwo, Ridley, AND Isaac/King K.Rool/Dixie/whoever in their placement. Or maybe replace the effort put into Mii's and use it to make Smash Run Online. Y'know, something important. You weren't gonna let Mii's go online anyway, why waste the effort? Same could be said about customization of moves, to a lesser degree. >.>;
I actually hadn't considered this, and now that I'm seeing the logic here, I completely agree. People will have fun playing as goofy Mii's they made for a week at most, then get tired of it and go back to lamenting about the exclusion of the Big 3. While I stand by what I said about the clones, I think I can speak for the majority of the Smash community when I say the Big 3 should be a much higher priority than Mii's. Also, Lucario could easily be replaced by Mewtwo so as to limit the Pokemon rep count, and keep people griping about clones if Lucario and Mewtwo were both in.
TL;DR You're right and I wasn't considering that view of it. Still stand by my clone statement but I also think Big 3 take priority over Mii's and secretly pray to Sakurai for their inclusion as DLC.
 

SmashWolf

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I meant the online servers being able enough to support Smash Run.
Since the netcode can take more slack since it doesn't need to be frame perfect like in regular modes, running Smash Run would be easier for everyone involved, including servers.

The US version COULD have online capability even if the Japanese version didn't. If Nintendo was willing to go the extra mile, that is.
I HIGHLY doubt this, but if they did, I'd be thankfull FOREVER. Smash Run is half of the reason I even give care about Smash 3DS. What's the point if it doesn't go online? I know for a fact I'm going to play this locally less than 10 times in my lifetime, since everytime I go local with friends(and getting together with friends for gaming happens less and less as you get older), we'll play serious. Smash Run is mostly a mode to let off steam and have random fun.


Still stand by my clone statement.
Just for the record, I agree with you on the clones. I feel people should stop focusing their anger on what only took a few hours of work.
 

SmashHole '82

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Since the netcode can take more slack since it doesn't need to be frame perfect like in regular modes, running Smash Run would be easier for everyone involved, including servers.



I HIGHLY doubt this, but if they did, I'd be thankfull FOREVER. Smash Run is half of the reason I even give care about Smash 3DS. What's the point if it doesn't go online? I know for a fact I'm going to play this locally less than 10 times in my lifetime, since everytime I go local with friends(and getting together with friends for gaming happens less and less as you get older), we'll play serious. Smash Run is mostly a mode to let off steam and have random fun.




Just for the record, I agree with you on the clones. I feel people should stop focusing their anger on what only took a few hours of work.
Then why is Smash Run not being played online?
 

Captain Norris

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Then why is Smash Run not being played online?
Okay, I am going to tell you why! Because it is Nintendo! In an above post, it was mentioned that Nintendo has done/is doing this for many many games. This is nothing new. They SHOULD add it, but they will not because it is Nintendo.
That exact question is what we're wondering, and why we're so pissed off about this! It should've been easier to do than regular online games, smoother, and EVERYONE was expecting it.
Exactly.

(BTW, good to see another Chuck Norris fan. :p)
 
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VKatana

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Not gonna lie this is the most fulfilling discussion I've had on the internet.
 

EgeDal

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Okay, I am going to tell you why! Because it is Nintendo! In an above post, it was mentioned that Nintendo has done/is doing this for many many games. This is nothing new. They SHOULD add it, but they will not because it is Nintendo.
Nintendo has ****ty hardware and software always, also not giving what fans want, like never. So why are we even surprised? This is Nintendo and you buy Nintendo consoles just because you like their games. I like nothing else about Nintendo clearly.

Not gonna lie this is the most fulfilling discussion I've had on the internet.

What do you mean lol?
 
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TearsforFears

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I was always under the impression that it didn't have online capabilities. Definitely sucks though.
 

Captain Norris

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Nintendo has ****ty hardware and software always, also not giving what fans want, like never. So why are we even surprised? This is Nintendo and you buy Nintendo consoles just because you like their games. I like nothing else about Nintendo clearly.
It is because of Nintendo the video game market evolved. It is because of Nintendo that we see innovations every single generations. It is because of Nintendo that we get the best First Party Titles and usually great Customer Service.
It is because of Nintendo Smash Bros is even made.

And you know why all of this is? Because it is Freaking Nintendo. I will argue all day that Nintendo has listened to their fans the most.
 

staindgrey

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And what are your thoughts on

And what is your knowledge of the differences between Smash Run, and versus matches? I'd really like to know, because you clearly seem to know more than I do.
The differences between Smash Run and regular versus matches are inconsequential. What we're talking about is the toll online encounters take on the hardware that local multiplayer does not, which is next to nothing.

In a local Smash Run match, one 3DS will be designated the "host" to which the other up-to-three will connect. Those systems will then send the host small bits of data to communicate what their users are doing. The host itself won't be taxed much for this, since all it's accepting are insignificantly sized lines of code to change the user's stats according to what they pick accomplish.

If this process were to be put online instead of locally, then that process would take place with a new middleman: the server. It would likely not be a dedicated server, however. Instead, it would be a matchmaking server. Thus, there would still be one 3DS designated to the host, and that host would do all the same stuff as it did above-- only now, over an internet connection.

The only issue I could see would be latency messing up gameplay, but considering the fact that regular matches allegedly work just fine, I see no reason why Smash Run wouldn't. The only portion of Smash Run in which all four players are on the same screen is the end-- which is just a FFA match with newly accumulated attributes. This isn't difficult at all, far as the hardware's concerned. Just about everything in Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate would be more difficult, and that game's primary focus is online play.

Again, the decision to make Smash Run offline-only was not made out of necessity due to limitations. That's just not possible. It had to be a design decision by Sakurai.
 

mygamecube

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It's kinda like SSE from Brawl all over again.

Why even bother having the mode in if you can't maximize it to it's full potential as a multiplayer mode?

Might as well have scrapped that and added in more wanted characters. Ridley, Mewtwo, Lucas, K. Rool...(Krystal)

 

EgeDal

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It is because of Nintendo the video game market evolved. It is because of Nintendo that we see innovations every single generations. It is because of Nintendo that we get the best First Party Titles and usually great Customer Service.
It is because of Nintendo Smash Bros is even made.

And you know why all of this is? Because it is Freaking Nintendo. I will argue all day that Nintendo has listened to their fans the most.
Um, fanservice is different, listening to their fans is different. Fanservice:RIDLEY AND MEWTWO IN SMASH!
listening to fans: Smash bros.

Also, of course, as i said, Nintendo is their games, but not their console, that's what i meant actually
 

RazorsawTF

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While this is a good point, the versions are sadly region locked as is seemingly custom for Nintendo. The US version COULD have online capability even if the Japanese version didn't. If Nintendo was willing to go the extra mile, that is.
giving one version an online mode would have been a really bad move. Not only would it require splitting resources and effort, it could easily serve as a bad PR move that's MUCH worse than one regarding a silly Famitsu misprint.

Also, Lucario could easily be replaced by Mewtwo so as to limit the Pokemon rep count, and keep people griping about clones if Lucario and Mewtwo were both in.
Except Lucario is a much bigger deal to Pokemon now than Mewtwo is. Yeah, TCPi tried to make Mewtwo more prominent with the new movie and the Mega Evolutions, but he's nowhere near as popular as Lucario is right now. We're talking a Pokemon that's sub mascot level as far as merchandising and being used to advertise the franchise goes. He's headlining new series of cards, he's been consistently top tier in every generation since his introduction, he's factored into two recent anime arcs, and he's basically the face of Pokken Fighters.

It's safe to say that Lucario's overall importance to the Pokemon franchise is second only to Pikachu, right now.
 

VKatana

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The differences between Smash Run and regular versus matches are inconsequential. What we're talking about is the toll online encounters take on the hardware that local multiplayer does not, which is next to nothing.

In a local Smash Run match, one 3DS will be designated the "host" to which the other up-to-three will connect. Those systems will then send the host small bits of data to communicate what their users are doing. The host itself won't be taxed much for this, since all it's accepting are insignificantly sized lines of code to change the user's stats according to what they pick accomplish.

If this process were to be put online instead of locally, then that process would take place with a new middleman: the server. It would likely not be a dedicated server, however. Instead, it would be a matchmaking server. Thus, there would still be one 3DS designated to the host, and that host would do all the same stuff as it did above-- only now, over an internet connection.

The only issue I could see would be latency messing up gameplay, but considering the fact that regular matches allegedly work just fine, I see no reason why Smash Run wouldn't. The only portion of Smash Run in which all four players are on the same screen is the end-- which is just a FFA match with newly accumulated attributes. This isn't difficult at all, far as the hardware's concerned. Just about everything in Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate would be more difficult, and that game's primary focus is online play.

Again, the decision to make Smash Run offline-only was not made out of necessity due to limitations. That's just not possible. It had to be a design decision by Sakurai.
This is going to sound very sarcastic, but I promise you I mean it completely sincerely, as I am actually curious. Do you have a lot of experience in analyzing or dealing with this type of technology in games? You seem very knowledgeable on the subject and just a cool guy in general.
 

Octillus

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Because this is quite possibly the dumbest bomb they could possibly drop just before release. And it's just so Nintendo! I'm not even mad. I'm cracking up.

"Hey, you know that cool new competitive game type we've been promoting the hell out of because it's 3DS-specific and we want you to buy both versions of what's virtually the same game? Well guess what! You can't play it online. Don't have four friends in the same room as you? Get more friends to buy 3DS systems, then. Not our problem."
That's basically the rub, right? The problem is, I really don't think they understand their install base in this generation. There's the usual kids who probably still make up the majority of their users, but how many of the players of these games are older gamers with fond memories looking for gameplay needs not serviced on other consoles?

Have you talked to a kid about video games lately? They pretty much all play FPSes - not trying to tie anecdotal evidence in without cold hard facts, nor am I shaming what is the predominant form of the medium (one I can't play because I get sick, but I digress) but my brother is nearly 15 years younger than me and that's all he and his friends play, and all they've played since they were 11, except for minecraft.

That's also not addressing the issue that basically Nintendo is just now getting to Dreamcast levels of online functionality. My god, I was questing with Japanese strangers fighting sharks with blades for hands on a 56k modem! I get the complexity of Smash makes for difficult net code, but this is so out of parity with even the weaker consoles of last gen, it's kinda hard to believe.

I never really got into online gaming because I don't play shooters and I don't play sports games, and Nintendo's feet dragging has kept me long in the dust. I doubt I'll ever get as into it as when I was going to be a Sophmore in high school, making a miilion characters on a million VMUs in PSO. What a crying shame.

All I wanted to do was get my ass kicked in Smash Run, a mode where I could at least enjoy myself for 5 minutes before being reminded I'm not nearly as good as everyone else on these boards, online, or whatever.
 
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SmashHole '82

Banned via Warnings
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The differences between Smash Run and regular versus matches are inconsequential. What we're talking about is the toll online encounters take on the hardware that local multiplayer does not, which is next to nothing.

In a local Smash Run match, one 3DS will be designated the "host" to which the other up-to-three will connect. Those systems will then send the host small bits of data to communicate what their users are doing. The host itself won't be taxed much for this, since all it's accepting are insignificantly sized lines of code to change the user's stats according to what they pick accomplish.

If this process were to be put online instead of locally, then that process would take place with a new middleman: the server. It would likely not be a dedicated server, however. Instead, it would be a matchmaking server. Thus, there would still be one 3DS designated to the host, and that host would do all the same stuff as it did above-- only now, over an internet connection.

The only issue I could see would be latency messing up gameplay, but considering the fact that regular matches allegedly work just fine, I see no reason why Smash Run wouldn't. The only portion of Smash Run in which all four players are on the same screen is the end-- which is just a FFA match with newly accumulated attributes. This isn't difficult at all, far as the hardware's concerned. Just about everything in Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate would be more difficult, and that game's primary focus is online play.

Again, the decision to make Smash Run offline-only was not made out of necessity due to limitations. That's just not possible. It had to be a design decision by Sakurai.
I didn't mean Locally vs. Online, I meant Smash Run vs. multiplayer matches, in general.
And the Smash Run and match differences are VERY consequential. That's why we're all here, in the first place.
 
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