cashregister9
Smash Legend
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Okay but Makar or Hestu would actually go kinda nuts.
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Official Smash for Switch 2 - Speculation & Discussion Thread
- Thread starter NonSpecificGuy
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Will
apustaja
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Makar’s neutral special is getting kidnapped
smashkirby
Smash Hero
I swear, the amount of times I've had my mom watch some AI-slop that leads to me being banned from eating McDonald's for a period of time...
Really appreciate you giving some love to Namco's IPs here. At worst, I'd say that a lot of these IPs are simply more prominent in Japan these days, if nothing else.
Especially Valkyrie, Babylonian Castle, Bravoman, Wonder Momo, .dot Hack, etc.
Honestly, I'm shocked at this AND the fact that Don-chan apparently has an English VA.
Funny you mention Ace Combat getting a character in Smash, because I'm pretty sure Kei Nagase (Ace Combat's usual MC) could pull a Fox McCloud or Captain Falcon in this case.
Still though, kind of ironic that we're saying this at all, given Nintendo kind of already has their own fighter jet game in the form of...
And Jet Impulse even has a potential rep in the form of Naomi Moriha, so even potential characters are covered on this front.
Gengar84
Smash Hero
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I think AI as a technology is actually really cool. It’s just that there are so many dishonest grifters and scammers out there that ruin it for everyone. If people just used it for their own entertainment or maybe help brainstorm ideas I actually support it. I think it’s more a problem with society itself than the technology but it definitely does make it easier to push mindless propaganda and scams.I swear, the amount of times I've had my mom watch some AI-slop that leads to me being banned from eating McDonald's for a period of time...
Really appreciate you giving some love to Namco's IPs here. At worst, I'd say that a lot of these IPs are simply more prominent in Japan these days, if nothing else.
Especially Valkyrie, Babylonian Castle, Bravoman, Wonder Momo, .dot Hack, etc.
Honestly, I'm shocked at this AND the fact that Don-chan apparently has an English VA.
Funny you mention Ace Combat getting a character in Smash, because I'm pretty sure Kei Nagase (Ace Combat's usual MC) could pull a Fox McCloud or Captain Falcon in this case.
Still though, kind of ironic that we're saying this at all, given Nintendo kind of already has their own fighter jet game in the form of...View attachment 402418
And Jet Impulse even has a potential rep in the form of Naomi Moriha, so even potential characters are covered on this front.
Ivander
Smash Legend
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This is mainly the issue in general. People don't necessarily fear the technology itself. They just know that there are some people out there who will do very unfavourable things with it. If people didn't use it for nefarious or whatnot purposes, there would be a much different attitude to AI and a much different attitude toward people in general. Unfortunately, aside from the unfavourable use of AI, it doesn't help that we are in very trying times, with some people trying to make money with AI out of desperation and some people wanting AI to fill in what they feel they need out of depression, while other people are lashing out with whatever they can at what could potentially take away what gets them the money needed for the bills and what gives them meaning.
like the copying of artists works without permission?
Ivander
Smash Legend
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Last time I checked, you can have AI models that train on your own work and not on other artists. It does require creating your own AI models and building them off your stuff, but it is possible to have AI models that aren't trained from other people's stuff.
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Gengar84
Smash Hero
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If you’re doing it for your own purposes and not spreading it online or trying to profit from it, I think it’s more acceptable. I’ve used it a few times for art for my custom TMNT Magic the Gathering cards there is no existing art for. Basically, I take a screenshot from a TMNT movie and say “restyle this image in the style of a comic book cover” and it makes for passable card art for my own personal use. It’s another story if I spread that image all over Facebook or even worse tried to make a profit off of it. I think using those images for our own use with friends is fine. I’m not specifying an artist to copy either.
I’ve also done the same with our own characters my brother and I created and drew ourselves just for fun to see those characters in a different style. I think it’s a bit of a gray area in terms of what’s morally acceptable but I try to be responsible and I get why some people might be less accepting of it. I guess I could relate it to Smash modding. With modding, you’re often not creating the assets yourself and are taking models from other games and porting them over existing Smash characters. I’m not entirely sure whether that’s considered morally wrong but I think it’s fine if I’m just missing my own game I paid money for. Many modders today do charge money for their mods, which I do find a bit questionable ethically but I never have.
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i thought we were talking about the unethical things people were using it for?
Well it’s good to know someone is trying to be responsible about it. But I’m more worried about the small time artists
Gengar84
Smash Hero
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Same here. That’s why I think it all depends on how you use it. Generally, if it’s for your own personal use and you’re open and honest that it’s made with AI when and if you do decide to share it, I’m okay with it. Big corporations using it as an excuse to save money and lay off hard working artists is another story and one I’m a lot less okay with.
well I’d say that’s a good attitude to have
SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
Fighter Review: #03 Link
TLDR: Link is a fairly variable character that is often depicted as the embodiment of courage. He saves Hyrule with accomplished swordsmanship, and a utility belt of various different weapons, items, artifacts, and machinery. In Smash, he’s much the same with a slight emphasis on his current incarnation. I think his current implementation is great, with a ton of his iconic aspects in his home series also being iconic here. The main complaint is that his moveset doesn’t particularly encourage creativity with his items, leading him to his spammy reputation.
Alongside this, there is a complaint that his current incarnation’s abilities aren’t pushed far enough, and while I think that this complaint mainly exists due to factors that don’t really affect my rating of how he’s implemented since he’s first and foremost a composite character, I do agree that they could do a little more to have these unique aspects add depth to his base composite kit.
All things considered, my grade for him is A.
TLDR: Link is a fairly variable character that is often depicted as the embodiment of courage. He saves Hyrule with accomplished swordsmanship, and a utility belt of various different weapons, items, artifacts, and machinery. In Smash, he’s much the same with a slight emphasis on his current incarnation. I think his current implementation is great, with a ton of his iconic aspects in his home series also being iconic here. The main complaint is that his moveset doesn’t particularly encourage creativity with his items, leading him to his spammy reputation.
Alongside this, there is a complaint that his current incarnation’s abilities aren’t pushed far enough, and while I think that this complaint mainly exists due to factors that don’t really affect my rating of how he’s implemented since he’s first and foremost a composite character, I do agree that they could do a little more to have these unique aspects add depth to his base composite kit.
All things considered, my grade for him is A.
Link is a bit different than most other characters in that he’s split across multiple different continuities. In Super Smash Bros., Link seems to refer to his adult designs seen in The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess, The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, and The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, though in his inception, they may have also taken his appearances in everything prior to Ocarina of Time as well. In this case, I will be ignoring his younger appearances, as well as his appearances in games with a more cartoony artstyle, covering those at a later point when it’s time to talk about Young Link and Toon Link.
Generally, Link is seen as the embodiment of courage. He usually lives in a small town before being forced to leave due to the plot, and brave the dangers of Ganon(dorf)’s minions in order to save Princess Zelda, and/or The Kingdom of Hyrule as a whole. Link becomes an accomplished swordsman through each of these journeys, and the wielder of the Master Sword. The Legend of Zelda series places an emphasis on exploration and problem solving, with a large world to explore, and several dungeons filled with puzzles to solve using the wide variety of items that Link picks up along his journey.
Link’s most iconic items are the Bow and Arrows, Boomerang, Fire Rod, Bombs, Bombchus (though IIRC they appear more often in toon styled games), Hylian Shield, and the Ocarina of Time (though this is game specific).
Link also has a few iconic sword techniques in the Spin Attack, Downward Thrust, Sword Beam, and Jump Slash.
Personality wise, Link is a man of few words, often choosing not to speak unless asked a direct question. He can vary a bit between kinda goofy and very serious depending on how he reacts to things, though he’s often the straight man in humorous situations.
His newest incarnation is what’s currently the focus for Super Smash Bros. design. Often referred to as The Champion of Hyrule, Link is the Hylian’s best knight, and Zelda’s personal guard. He’s very disciplined, but knows how to have fun, and seems to Mirror Zelda in struggling with the weight of the responsibility of saving all of Hyrule hovering over him.
The Champion of Hyrule also has a couple of new abilities granted to him by the Shekiah Slate, and Zonai Abilities, including the ability to create manipulate objects from afar, summon remote bombs, stop or reverse time, and build a myriad of different tools and machines to help him in his quest.
A successful adaptation of Link can vary depending on where the focus is placed, but by and large Link should be able to show of his skill with a sword, and a utility belt of different items, powers, or contraptions that allow him to solve problems that swordsmanship alone cannot. Personality wise, he should be relatively serious, with a little bit of capacity for silliness where it fits, as even his most serious incarnations can do dumb stuff like roll into walls.
Generally, Link is seen as the embodiment of courage. He usually lives in a small town before being forced to leave due to the plot, and brave the dangers of Ganon(dorf)’s minions in order to save Princess Zelda, and/or The Kingdom of Hyrule as a whole. Link becomes an accomplished swordsman through each of these journeys, and the wielder of the Master Sword. The Legend of Zelda series places an emphasis on exploration and problem solving, with a large world to explore, and several dungeons filled with puzzles to solve using the wide variety of items that Link picks up along his journey.
Link’s most iconic items are the Bow and Arrows, Boomerang, Fire Rod, Bombs, Bombchus (though IIRC they appear more often in toon styled games), Hylian Shield, and the Ocarina of Time (though this is game specific).
Link also has a few iconic sword techniques in the Spin Attack, Downward Thrust, Sword Beam, and Jump Slash.
Personality wise, Link is a man of few words, often choosing not to speak unless asked a direct question. He can vary a bit between kinda goofy and very serious depending on how he reacts to things, though he’s often the straight man in humorous situations.
His newest incarnation is what’s currently the focus for Super Smash Bros. design. Often referred to as The Champion of Hyrule, Link is the Hylian’s best knight, and Zelda’s personal guard. He’s very disciplined, but knows how to have fun, and seems to Mirror Zelda in struggling with the weight of the responsibility of saving all of Hyrule hovering over him.
The Champion of Hyrule also has a couple of new abilities granted to him by the Shekiah Slate, and Zonai Abilities, including the ability to create manipulate objects from afar, summon remote bombs, stop or reverse time, and build a myriad of different tools and machines to help him in his quest.
A successful adaptation of Link can vary depending on where the focus is placed, but by and large Link should be able to show of his skill with a sword, and a utility belt of different items, powers, or contraptions that allow him to solve problems that swordsmanship alone cannot. Personality wise, he should be relatively serious, with a little bit of capacity for silliness where it fits, as even his most serious incarnations can do dumb stuff like roll into walls.
Link is a fusion between the swordfighter and projectile zoner archetypes. He trades the strong mid-range zoning you’d expect of a swordfighter for slower, more powerful strikes that can quickly land K.O.s, and a handful of strong projectiles that limit their opponent’s approach options. Link has many iconic aspects to his kit; His Bow and Arrows, Boomerang, and Bombs make up the bulk of his gameplan, his down aerial is memorable due to its bouncy capabilities, his neutral aerial is a great approach tool (sometimes incredibly so), his forward smash is a unique two-part attack, and his Spin Attack can be a potent finisher, but is also known for being kind of a terrible recovery.
Link very much takes the serious/action hero angle when it comes to his portrayal, and in this game in particular, he’s very focused, and perhaps a bit more reserved.
Link very much takes the serious/action hero angle when it comes to his portrayal, and in this game in particular, he’s very focused, and perhaps a bit more reserved.
Link is a pretty good adaptation of his usual character, and of his current incarnation. His swordsmanship is a tad limited by the balancing necessities of also having great projectiles, but it makes up for this in the power of his swings. His slow movement and physical attacks also lead to that slower, methodical pace that The Legend of Zelda tends to take with its combat. He also has the quickest item toss animation, making him the best at using thrown items.
My only complaint would be that his items don’t quite allow for creative plays to be the character’s default, leading to his reputation as a projectile barfing menace. I have seen a complaint about his kicks, as he doesn’t do them in any of his games, but they add to his uniqueness as a character, and don’t seem particularly out of character, so I quite like them.
The other main complaint about him is that the unique aspects of this current incarnation could have been pushed farther. I think this criticism is rooted in the fact that three incarnations are present on the roster, which isn’t necessarily this character’s fault, but on the whole I do agree.
All three Links are composites of all versions of the character, but unlike other later composite fighters like Hero, Link always has an emphasis on the current incarnation, drawing upon variations of his current abilities that these new incarnations have, such as the Gale Boomerang for the Hero of Twilight. Given that, I believe that their implementation should remain composite, but explore what the current incarnation can offer the moveset.
To this end, assuming the next game will focus on Link’s appearance in The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom, I would like to see fusion incorporated into Link’s kit, as it is that game’s main standout mechanic. The easiest way to incorporate this I think is in his Bow and Arrows: While holding an item, using the move would activate the fusion mechanic, altering the arrows properties, allowing him to natively fire exploding Bomb Arrows for example. You could also allow him to aim his shots upward, allowing him to essentially throw whatever item he’s holding in a pronounced arc, upping the amount of creativity that Bow and Arrows could provide.
If this mechanic were to be given to his other special moves, I could see it applying to his boomerang in similar ways, giving him things like Banana Peel Boomerangs that would slide instead of bouncing off the ground. Bombs give you an item, so I could see it being exempt, or being placed on your sword or shield, and Spin Attack could also apply an item to your sword either only during the Spin Attack, or until you hit an opponent with your sword.
One last note: these changes assume Remote Bomb is changed to Bomb Flower, which acts like the bombs he had in games prior to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I do believe that losing Remote Bomb will be a downgrade, as it gave him more creative options, but incorporating Fusion would add new nuances to explore, even if they’re a bit more limited in competitive play where anything other than bombs are going to be matchup dependent.
My only complaint would be that his items don’t quite allow for creative plays to be the character’s default, leading to his reputation as a projectile barfing menace. I have seen a complaint about his kicks, as he doesn’t do them in any of his games, but they add to his uniqueness as a character, and don’t seem particularly out of character, so I quite like them.
The other main complaint about him is that the unique aspects of this current incarnation could have been pushed farther. I think this criticism is rooted in the fact that three incarnations are present on the roster, which isn’t necessarily this character’s fault, but on the whole I do agree.
All three Links are composites of all versions of the character, but unlike other later composite fighters like Hero, Link always has an emphasis on the current incarnation, drawing upon variations of his current abilities that these new incarnations have, such as the Gale Boomerang for the Hero of Twilight. Given that, I believe that their implementation should remain composite, but explore what the current incarnation can offer the moveset.
To this end, assuming the next game will focus on Link’s appearance in The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom, I would like to see fusion incorporated into Link’s kit, as it is that game’s main standout mechanic. The easiest way to incorporate this I think is in his Bow and Arrows: While holding an item, using the move would activate the fusion mechanic, altering the arrows properties, allowing him to natively fire exploding Bomb Arrows for example. You could also allow him to aim his shots upward, allowing him to essentially throw whatever item he’s holding in a pronounced arc, upping the amount of creativity that Bow and Arrows could provide.
If this mechanic were to be given to his other special moves, I could see it applying to his boomerang in similar ways, giving him things like Banana Peel Boomerangs that would slide instead of bouncing off the ground. Bombs give you an item, so I could see it being exempt, or being placed on your sword or shield, and Spin Attack could also apply an item to your sword either only during the Spin Attack, or until you hit an opponent with your sword.
One last note: these changes assume Remote Bomb is changed to Bomb Flower, which acts like the bombs he had in games prior to Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I do believe that losing Remote Bomb will be a downgrade, as it gave him more creative options, but incorporating Fusion would add new nuances to explore, even if they’re a bit more limited in competitive play where anything other than bombs are going to be matchup dependent.
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DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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- 9,017
I'm okay with using AI for non-creative tasks.
Like, I'm totally okay with a studio using SpeedTree to generate forests in an open-world game.
SharkLord
Smash Hero
I will add that current generative AI models have atrocious carbon emission outputs that put Google over 50% above their emission limits. As of writing generative AI is not sustainable, especially when so many people are using it to churn out images and essays for them.
I am shocked. If I knew this sooner, I would not be using that feature of Google much. Still, I don’t know if I should stop using that AI or Google itself.
Thegameandwatch
Smash Lord
Is there any web browser or search engine that doesn’t use generative AI at this point?
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Ag, crud. Even worse. I bet it will be hard to find one that does not.
Ivander
Smash Legend
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That's the other issue. People, especially higher-ups, not looking or worse, not caring, into what could possibly happen in doing something and thinking that a good thing will happen in doing something when in reality, not one good thing happens and 20 other problems come up. England in particular is the personification of insanity with their plan to reduce the amount of sunlight to counter climate change. That's not going to backfire in any way at all.
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LiveStudioAudience
Smash Master
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Generative AI is basically the final end point in a long trend of technology coming along with laws and general cultural safeguards being way too behind in effectively dealing with it. There were always aspects of that phenomenon with the internet, but the damage from AI in numerous different areas has come so fast and current context having way too many critical entities trying to profit on it that there's no real protection against it beyond what amounts to the honor system.
Moreover, with fan created content that's (at least not overtly) for profit means trying to reign it in becomes even harder because it's so widespread. You can culturally shame AI assisted mods all you want, but if something's put out with enough appealing content, story expansion via pitch perfect AI voice recreations, and an overall feel like it fits the game? All the finger wagging in the world won't stop enough fans from diving in, and the cultural consequences of that development could reach even farther than just official media being created with AI use.
Moreover, with fan created content that's (at least not overtly) for profit means trying to reign it in becomes even harder because it's so widespread. You can culturally shame AI assisted mods all you want, but if something's put out with enough appealing content, story expansion via pitch perfect AI voice recreations, and an overall feel like it fits the game? All the finger wagging in the world won't stop enough fans from diving in, and the cultural consequences of that development could reach even farther than just official media being created with AI use.
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HyperSomari64
Smash Master
Can we get this AI talk outta here?
Isn't this supposed to be a thread about Smash? (or sometimes Nintendo or gaming-general)
Isn't this supposed to be a thread about Smash? (or sometimes Nintendo or gaming-general)
That we should do, though I learned something helpful about Generative AI today.
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GoldenYuiitusin
Smash Champion
AI generated Smash leaks.
HyperSomari64
Smash Master
Triple denture Waluigi confirmedAI generated Smash leaks.
Thegameandwatch
Smash Lord
At least we know more about AI which is relevant for fake leaks.
LiveStudioAudience
Smash Master
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The sad/funny thing is that a cold/uncaring AI program creating twisted characters and soulless settings without any concern for the damage its causing would be a hell of a central antagonist for the next Smash Adventure mode.
Ivander
Smash Legend
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- Dec 1, 2014
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You know, on the subject of AI taking everything and making an amalgamation on it, wouldn't that be an interesting theme for Smash Bros? The main villain is some chaotic entity that absorbs the worlds and starts putting out amalgamations of different stages and whatnot? Imagine that for an Adventure Mode. You have to get to the main villain's location and each Adventure Mode Stage is randomly generated Adventure stages consisting of the different stages themings and whatnot and you fight against enemies and bosses that are related to the stages there.
I was just typing about it and about to post it when you ninja'd me.
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Hadokeyblade
Smash Legend
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HyperSomari64
Smash Master
Remember the crab in Smash AI art posted a year ago?
SMAASH! Puppy
Smash Legend
DuckDuckGo probably.
FireFox doesn't use AI either, but it's just the web browser.
Otoad64
Smash Champion
DuckDuckGo has some AI features, but you can turn them off, at least.
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I was thinking DuckDuckGo might have been a good choice. Looks like I will use that.
Þe 1 → Way
Smash Champion
Imagine you're fighting 'Master Baseball' for the entire first act, you win the fight, and suddenly the simulation the story has been unknowingly taking place in crumbles, as the initials on the screen simply fade to 'MB'.
also you can only play this game on Dpad and Anthony Higgs is the only new fighter
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Thegameandwatch
Smash Lord
I think it’s also the only major web browser alongside Safari that doesn’t use Chromium.
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Back on the subject of Smash:
I just got recommended this video on Final Smashes, and now I wish I hadn’t.
I just got recommended this video on Final Smashes, and now I wish I hadn’t.
Thegameandwatch
Smash Lord
An example is how their idea of a Mario’s Final Smash is basically just the same as Mega Man but with older incarnations of the same character and too complex. I think Mario’s Final Smash if it changes should be something simple and straightforward.
Also I think the reason why Link has his current Final Smash is because of the first BOTW trailer where he uses it there. They designed Link’s moveset in 2015/16 before the game released.
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DJ Disney Afternoon
Smash Cadet
Yeah. His previous Final Smash was WAY better.
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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Isn't that the plot of Space Jam 2?
Noipoi
Howdy!
Clearly the next Smash’s story mode should be about an extra-dimensional cosmic entity challenging the roster to a basketball game.
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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- 9,017
Smash Bros. X MultiVersus
Ivander
Smash Legend
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