The Noob Legend
Smash Ace
The cards seem so plain.
I'm just going to make some for fun tomorrow morning.
See if you like them... ya know?
I'm just going to make some for fun tomorrow morning.
See if you like them... ya know?
-
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Smash Brothers TCG! Pokemon Trainer Card! New Rules! Fifty Three Cards Total Now!
- Thread starter Rhubarbo
- Start date
soviet prince
I am the terror that flaps in the night
I would use something like magic workstation to finish the game if I were you.
I suggest more basic and understandable names. For instance, instead of Recovery 1 and Recovery 2, make it L. Recovery and R. Recovery. Gives a more "flow" idea.
I really like this TCG concept. You're doing well, make sure you have consistencies in card format and structure. Of course, balancing will come during the beta stage.
If you can, create a demo playing mat with "starter decks". Play against a friend who is helping you with this project, and show us how it all works on YouTube. This'll explain it a lot more graphically if you add commentary/text in addition to the video lesson.
Keep up the good work. You can PM me if you need any help, you have my support. =)
I really like this TCG concept. You're doing well, make sure you have consistencies in card format and structure. Of course, balancing will come during the beta stage.
If you can, create a demo playing mat with "starter decks". Play against a friend who is helping you with this project, and show us how it all works on YouTube. This'll explain it a lot more graphically if you add commentary/text in addition to the video lesson.
Keep up the good work. You can PM me if you need any help, you have my support. =)
Papapaint
Just your average kind of Luigi.
Would you be offended if I posted a quick mock-up of the rules I came up with in my head? I don't want to create a competing thread, and I think you might be able to use some of them in your second wave...
gigasteve
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2007
- Messages
- 730
I just don't want everyone creating broken decks.
OMG! Huge idea. Not a card game, but just profile cards for characters, items, stages, etc.
Just an idea, but i'll take anything.
You see, why can't Nintendo do this? They did a card game for Mario Party, but not Brawl?
Wario Bros.
Smash Obsessed
- Joined
- May 19, 2006
- Messages
- 23,446
- Location
- In a van down by the river
- NNID
- WarioBrose
- 3DS FC
- 0903-2806-9000
- Switch FC
- SW-8539-3655-2004
That Mario Party card game was to be used with the e-Reader. BTW, when I was shopping at Books-A-Million with my mom, looking at there trading cards, I saw "The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess" cards. I didn't buy them so I don't know what's in it. Don't forget Pokémon Trading Card Game.
Linkeatspie
Smash Apprentice
Wow nice idea, it inspired me to create a rough little TCG to play with my friends 
.
The best way of distributing cards would, of course, be to make it in it's own program or flash, but that would require programming skills (which many people, including yours truly, do not possess).
But downloading cards (as mentioned) wouldn't be a bad thing.
.The best way of distributing cards would, of course, be to make it in it's own program or flash, but that would require programming skills (which many people, including yours truly, do not possess).
But downloading cards (as mentioned) wouldn't be a bad thing.
Rhubarbo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2007
- Messages
- 2,035
UPDATE: Well, I got caught up doing things with my friend today, so I didn't really make many more cards. I did hoever make one brand new Sonic card! I'll try to work everyday, but sometimes I have to take a break too.
Find the Sonic card here: http://s260.photobucket.com/albums/ii29/Rhubarbo/
Again on the format, it would be difficult making a Flash Game, but it might happen. But right now, look forward to the cards being completed by Q2 2008. I'll also work on a play mat to make the game more simple ^_^!
Find the Sonic card here: http://s260.photobucket.com/albums/ii29/Rhubarbo/
Again on the format, it would be difficult making a Flash Game, but it might happen. But right now, look forward to the cards being completed by Q2 2008. I'll also work on a play mat to make the game more simple ^_^!
Papapaint
Just your average kind of Luigi.
Basic rundown of my game:
There are 6 different kinds of cards. Cards deemed "rare" are allowed only one copy in a deck.
Characters
Allies (broken down into pokeballs and ATs)
Actions (broken down into character-specific and general)
Techniques (broken down into character-specific and general)
Items
Stages
Before the game, each player chooses a stage, then flips a coin. Winner may choose which stage to use.
Each player starts the game with one character on the field. This is their only character for the game.
The game starts with each player drawing 6 cards. The turn structure is as follows:
Discard
Draw
Actions
Simple, no? Here's how it works:
Each character has a set "HP." Players keep track of this using paper. Life is generally lost in increments of 5s. So long as a player has above 20 HP remaining, they have little to worry about. However, whenever a player's life reaches 20 or less, they must perform "recovery attempts". This is done by flipping a coin once for every 5 damage, or until they get heads. If they do not get heads, they die and lose the game.
For example: Mario and Bowser are fighting. Bowser performs his Over A (a General Action card dealing 10 damage). This lowers Mario's life to 15. Mario must now recover. He flips three coins. One is heads. Mario has not lost the game.
Understand? Now, here's how you do damage.
Each turn, you begin by discarding everything in your action zone. This will become clearer in a moment. Then you draw a card. Now, during your action phase, you are able to do the following:
Use one item.
Make one attack using an action card.
Use a technique (as many as you like).
You may do those in any order. However, you may only play one item and one action card a turn. When you use an item, attack or technique card, they remain in the action zone until your next turn. This is for a few reasons:
1. It ensures that you do not try to use more than one item or attack in a turn.
2. It makes clear which techniques are in use.
3. Some cards only work when you've played something on your last turn. This makes it easier to understand.
A few examples:
Marth is fighting Bowser. Marth's owner has played the following cards:
Short Hop Slash! (Marth Specific Action)
Aerial. Marth Deals 5 damage to the opponent. He may perform another aerial.
Short Hop Slash! (Marth Specific Action)
Aerial. Marth Deals 5 damage to the opponent. He may perform another aerial.
SHFFL (General Technique)
Rare. If you've performed an aerial this turn, you are no longer exhausted. You may also perform another attack.
Sword Spike! (Marth Specific Action)
Rare. Spike. Aerial. Deals 10 damage to the opponent.
I Am Ken (Marth Specific Technique)
If the following cards have been played: Short Hop Slash! x2, SHFFL, Sword Spike, I Am Ken, then your opponent must attempt to recover. They have only once chance.
Now, in this instance, you can see how having all of the cards out at once helps. You can also see how some of the cards tell you something different from the rules. In those situations, the card is right. Now, in this case, Beez just got totally sword-****ed. He has only one chance to recover. Now, let's suppose he does. On his next turn, he does the following.
Up-claw!
Exhausts. If your opponent performed an aerial last turn, this move deals 20 damage to them.
A whopping 20 damage. Considering it took Marth 5 cards to do the same amount, you can see the difference in the decks.
What does exhaust mean? Well, think of it as being "tapped" in magic. It means the card can't perform an action. There are a few actions that can be performed on your opponent's turn--like shielding. There are also ways to exhaust a character before your action phase, leaving them useless through the whole turn. Being exhausted can be dangerous. Also, all aerials automatically exhaust you, unless they say otherwise. For example, marth's allowed him to perform an extra aerial.
That should be a sufficient explanation for now. I can type more if you like.
You should be able to see how much simpler mine is. I'm not touting it as better, simply as an alternative. It's much less complex, but, in my opinion, allows for more strategy. Do I play as marth or bowser? You can see the significant difference between the two. If I play as marth, do I try for combo setups? Or do I simply try for high damage?
There are 6 different kinds of cards. Cards deemed "rare" are allowed only one copy in a deck.
Characters
Allies (broken down into pokeballs and ATs)
Actions (broken down into character-specific and general)
Techniques (broken down into character-specific and general)
Items
Stages
Before the game, each player chooses a stage, then flips a coin. Winner may choose which stage to use.
Each player starts the game with one character on the field. This is their only character for the game.
The game starts with each player drawing 6 cards. The turn structure is as follows:
Discard
Draw
Actions
Simple, no? Here's how it works:
Each character has a set "HP." Players keep track of this using paper. Life is generally lost in increments of 5s. So long as a player has above 20 HP remaining, they have little to worry about. However, whenever a player's life reaches 20 or less, they must perform "recovery attempts". This is done by flipping a coin once for every 5 damage, or until they get heads. If they do not get heads, they die and lose the game.
For example: Mario and Bowser are fighting. Bowser performs his Over A (a General Action card dealing 10 damage). This lowers Mario's life to 15. Mario must now recover. He flips three coins. One is heads. Mario has not lost the game.
Understand? Now, here's how you do damage.
Each turn, you begin by discarding everything in your action zone. This will become clearer in a moment. Then you draw a card. Now, during your action phase, you are able to do the following:
Use one item.
Make one attack using an action card.
Use a technique (as many as you like).
You may do those in any order. However, you may only play one item and one action card a turn. When you use an item, attack or technique card, they remain in the action zone until your next turn. This is for a few reasons:
1. It ensures that you do not try to use more than one item or attack in a turn.
2. It makes clear which techniques are in use.
3. Some cards only work when you've played something on your last turn. This makes it easier to understand.
A few examples:
Marth is fighting Bowser. Marth's owner has played the following cards:
Short Hop Slash! (Marth Specific Action)
Aerial. Marth Deals 5 damage to the opponent. He may perform another aerial.
Short Hop Slash! (Marth Specific Action)
Aerial. Marth Deals 5 damage to the opponent. He may perform another aerial.
SHFFL (General Technique)
Rare. If you've performed an aerial this turn, you are no longer exhausted. You may also perform another attack.
Sword Spike! (Marth Specific Action)
Rare. Spike. Aerial. Deals 10 damage to the opponent.
I Am Ken (Marth Specific Technique)
If the following cards have been played: Short Hop Slash! x2, SHFFL, Sword Spike, I Am Ken, then your opponent must attempt to recover. They have only once chance.
Now, in this instance, you can see how having all of the cards out at once helps. You can also see how some of the cards tell you something different from the rules. In those situations, the card is right. Now, in this case, Beez just got totally sword-****ed. He has only one chance to recover. Now, let's suppose he does. On his next turn, he does the following.
Up-claw!
Exhausts. If your opponent performed an aerial last turn, this move deals 20 damage to them.
A whopping 20 damage. Considering it took Marth 5 cards to do the same amount, you can see the difference in the decks.
What does exhaust mean? Well, think of it as being "tapped" in magic. It means the card can't perform an action. There are a few actions that can be performed on your opponent's turn--like shielding. There are also ways to exhaust a character before your action phase, leaving them useless through the whole turn. Being exhausted can be dangerous. Also, all aerials automatically exhaust you, unless they say otherwise. For example, marth's allowed him to perform an extra aerial.
That should be a sufficient explanation for now. I can type more if you like.
You should be able to see how much simpler mine is. I'm not touting it as better, simply as an alternative. It's much less complex, but, in my opinion, allows for more strategy. Do I play as marth or bowser? You can see the significant difference between the two. If I play as marth, do I try for combo setups? Or do I simply try for high damage?
soviet prince
I am the terror that flaps in the night
no it wont free is always good
sceptilian
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2007
- Messages
- 87
Hey Rhubarbo:
I really like the concept of this SSB card game. I think the play zones are rather creative. Wishing you luck with the project.
I really like the concept of this SSB card game. I think the play zones are rather creative. Wishing you luck with the project.
flyinfilipino
Smash Master
@almightypancake:
That's pretty similar to the idea of a Smash card game that I came up with, with a big difference being the recovery mechanic. One question though, how does the recovery part work, with the coin flipping? So if your character's HP gets below 20, you flip coins according the their HP left, or the damage they've taken? In the example you provided, it sounds like the amount of HP they have left, is that right?
That's pretty similar to the idea of a Smash card game that I came up with, with a big difference being the recovery mechanic. One question though, how does the recovery part work, with the coin flipping? So if your character's HP gets below 20, you flip coins according the their HP left, or the damage they've taken? In the example you provided, it sounds like the amount of HP they have left, is that right?
almighty pancake - Your idea actually sounds really cool. It seems kind of like a simplified pokemon. I really enjoyed the example card "I am Ken." Having meta-game cards or community based cards would be amazing. Make a card called 'Top Tier,' or a card based called "Mindgames!" So yeah, I would really like to see it fleshed out. Without the rest of the rules/cards known, I have a few questions and thoughts.
You mentioned blocking. Is this similar to instant speed cards in magic? If so, will you have a stack? Are all actions/attacks dependent on playing a card? IE can a player only do damage, use an item, block, etc. if they play a card? How many cards does a player draw a turn? Considering that someone can play 7+ cards (Marth example of 4) will many cards have a cantrip effect? How do you deal with casting-cost or regulating card power? Exhaustion and minimal card plays a turn seem good. Most if not all TCGs have an element of escalation, do you want or are planning it?
On escalation this model seems devoid of it. All cards in play minus the character are discarded at the beginning of your turn. Hand size seems to deplete quickly so the game seems like it would stagnate. The only things that grow or stay are Damage taken and character on the field. These are all fine, it's just something to consider.
Also:
Coin flips for recovery = bad. I really really really don't like coin flipping in TCGs. Heck most competitive game minimizes random chance. Chess has only 1 coin flip. Tournament Smash has controller port selection, random stage, Peach's Turnips, and G&W's SideB. Most Magic decks (which try to win) run the minimum deck size to minimze randomness. Pokemon TCG's greatest detriment is that it is plagued by coin flips.
imo, randomness can equal novelty. Novelty is fun. But randomness is an enemy of strategy. If you played a tournament match where your opponent, Peach, only pulled death-turnips and bomb-ombs, would that be fun? Maybe for peach, but say the Peach player was me and my opponent was Ken and I won. Was it due to my skill? A better question, would it be balanced?
A few ideas for your consideration:
If you are trying to make it as close to the real game as possible. Consider these things.
Simultaneous Turns: Smash plays synchronically.
Initiative: Contrasting synchronization, different actions/pieces take varying amounts of time. Allowing for varying levels of initiative.
Positional Strategy: Fighting in smash is also about where, when, and how you place yourself in the play-field.
Momentum/Slippery Slope: Roughly true, is that a player does not lose game pieces (oh noes! I'm above 77% I can no longer Ftilt.) as damage accumulates. Though, ledge moves change after 100%.
Construction: Aside from projectiles or projectile-items, no characters can create other game agents. Considering projectiles, these agents have strict behavior, limitations on creation, and a short lifespan. Some items (pokeballs) have a much longer lifespan than a traditional projectile.
Modulation: Holding an items change a characters available pieces/moves. Battering items are a great example but throwing items do the same. Also, Zelda can transform.
Postures and Actions: Each character has different states or postures. In each posture are variable qualities and potential actions. Examples of postures could be, On ground, running, shielding, airborne, knocked down, on ledge, stunned, grabbed, Marth/Roys swords dance, and Fox's reflector. Actions have variable qualities and can transfer into different states.
Proximity: Smash happens in a 2-dimensional space. Most TCGs are non-dimensional. (unglued is a good counter example.)
You mentioned blocking. Is this similar to instant speed cards in magic? If so, will you have a stack? Are all actions/attacks dependent on playing a card? IE can a player only do damage, use an item, block, etc. if they play a card? How many cards does a player draw a turn? Considering that someone can play 7+ cards (Marth example of 4) will many cards have a cantrip effect? How do you deal with casting-cost or regulating card power? Exhaustion and minimal card plays a turn seem good. Most if not all TCGs have an element of escalation, do you want or are planning it?
On escalation this model seems devoid of it. All cards in play minus the character are discarded at the beginning of your turn. Hand size seems to deplete quickly so the game seems like it would stagnate. The only things that grow or stay are Damage taken and character on the field. These are all fine, it's just something to consider.
Also:
Coin flips for recovery = bad. I really really really don't like coin flipping in TCGs. Heck most competitive game minimizes random chance. Chess has only 1 coin flip. Tournament Smash has controller port selection, random stage, Peach's Turnips, and G&W's SideB. Most Magic decks (which try to win) run the minimum deck size to minimze randomness. Pokemon TCG's greatest detriment is that it is plagued by coin flips.
imo, randomness can equal novelty. Novelty is fun. But randomness is an enemy of strategy. If you played a tournament match where your opponent, Peach, only pulled death-turnips and bomb-ombs, would that be fun? Maybe for peach, but say the Peach player was me and my opponent was Ken and I won. Was it due to my skill? A better question, would it be balanced?
A few ideas for your consideration:
If you are trying to make it as close to the real game as possible. Consider these things.
Simultaneous Turns: Smash plays synchronically.
Initiative: Contrasting synchronization, different actions/pieces take varying amounts of time. Allowing for varying levels of initiative.
Positional Strategy: Fighting in smash is also about where, when, and how you place yourself in the play-field.
Momentum/Slippery Slope: Roughly true, is that a player does not lose game pieces (oh noes! I'm above 77% I can no longer Ftilt.) as damage accumulates. Though, ledge moves change after 100%.
Construction: Aside from projectiles or projectile-items, no characters can create other game agents. Considering projectiles, these agents have strict behavior, limitations on creation, and a short lifespan. Some items (pokeballs) have a much longer lifespan than a traditional projectile.
Modulation: Holding an items change a characters available pieces/moves. Battering items are a great example but throwing items do the same. Also, Zelda can transform.
Postures and Actions: Each character has different states or postures. In each posture are variable qualities and potential actions. Examples of postures could be, On ground, running, shielding, airborne, knocked down, on ledge, stunned, grabbed, Marth/Roys swords dance, and Fox's reflector. Actions have variable qualities and can transfer into different states.
Proximity: Smash happens in a 2-dimensional space. Most TCGs are non-dimensional. (unglued is a good counter example.)
Rubydragon
Smash Ace
Hmmm, this is quite interesting. this game seems to be quite fun. I can't wait.
Papapaint
Just your average kind of Luigi.
You mentioned blocking. Is this similar to instant speed cards in magic? If so, will you have a stack? Are all actions/attacks dependent on playing a card? IE can a player only do damage, use an item, block, etc. if they play a card? How many cards does a player draw a turn? Considering that someone can play 7+ cards (Marth example of 4) will many cards have a cantrip effect? How do you deal with casting-cost or regulating card power? Exhaustion and minimal card plays a turn seem good. Most if not all TCGs have an element of escalation, do you want or are planning it?
The "Technique" cards have instant speed, and the stack works just like magic. Declare targets, declare spell, put spell on stack. Next instant speed card has priority. All actions are played with a card. Also, almost every item will have some sort of cantrip effect, and most of the General Actions will as well. The beginning draw step will allow players to draw two cards. Also, there will be no casting-cost, short of some special cards (Say, a card called "Roy's Charged UP+B!) requiring a damage cost or discard cost. The idea of escalation comes in setting up your hand the same way Marth did in that example. It's much more effective to play those 4-5 card combos than it is to use Boozer's upsmash. Even though bowser's upsmash causes significant damage, there will be several healing items, and I hope to make them far more useful in this game than they are in most. Good players, just as in smash, will spend the game creating complex setups and combos.
On escalation this model seems devoid of it. All cards in play minus the character are discarded at the beginning of your turn. Hand size seems to deplete quickly so the game seems like it would stagnate. The only things that grow or stay are Damage taken and character on the field. These are all fine, it's just something to consider.
I still have to playtest the hand size and card drawing things. Unfortunately, I do not have any really good way to do it.
Also:
Coin flips for recovery = bad. I really really really don't like coin flipping in TCGs. Heck most competitive game minimizes random chance. Chess has only 1 coin flip. Tournament Smash has controller port selection, random stage, Peach's Turnips, and G&W's SideB. Most Magic decks (which try to win) run the minimum deck size to minimze randomness. Pokemon TCG's greatest detriment is that it is plagued by coin flips.
On one level, I absolutely agree. But this was the only way I could think of to really keep the game going. I don't like the idea of just trying to beat down the other player's hp. With this "recovery" idea, the game can continue for quite some time. Some cards (Like Up! B! and You Must Recover!) will be techniques allowing for instant recovery, no matter the life, whereas some cards (which "spike) allow you the chance to recover, but do not allow you to use those cards. The other idea I had was to force players to discard from the top of their decks to stay in the game, but that idea went away when I realized that it would make games go on forever. I'm open to suggestions though.
imo, randomness can equal novelty. Novelty is fun. But randomness is an enemy of strategy. If you played a tournament match where your opponent, Peach, only pulled death-turnips and bomb-ombs, would that be fun? Maybe for peach, but say the Peach player was me and my opponent was Ken and I won. Was it due to my skill? A better question, would it be balanced?
I have a friend who does that! I see what you're saying, but I was hoping to include a level of strategy in it. For example, a good player will try to always have some sort of recovery card in his hand. A player who blows their load on a single combo should be punished for it if the combo doesn't kill, just as in smash. But without a good rendering of 3-d space, it's excessive to imagine that every battle takes place right next to the edge. The coin flip idea represents the concept of "Well, what if we're playing on Hyrule (a stage which actually gives each player 3 additional coins for every recovery). It's not fair that I get hit and die instantly, when in real smash I could simply tech off of the walls. But it's also not fair that I assume I'm surviving everything.
A few ideas for your consideration:
If you are trying to make it as close to the real game as possible. Consider these things.
Simultaneous Turns: Smash plays synchronically.
There aren't too many good ways to do this.
Initiative: Contrasting synchronization, different actions/pieces take varying amounts of time. Allowing for varying levels of initiative.
This is why some cards "exhaust" and others don't. It's also why some cards have coin flips and others don't.
Positional Strategy: Fighting in smash is also about where, when, and how you place yourself in the play-field.
I agree, but I wanted to keep this simple as possible. Great card games are simple in their rules and complex in their strategy. When I was playing tournament magic, it stopped being fun when there became too many rules.
Momentum/Slippery Slope: Roughly true, is that a player does not lose game pieces (oh noes! I'm above 77% I can no longer Ftilt.) as damage accumulates. Though, ledge moves change after 100%.
The coin flip idea.
Construction: Aside from projectiles or projectile-items, no characters can create other game agents. Considering projectiles, these agents have strict behavior, limitations on creation, and a short lifespan. Some items (pokeballs) have a much longer lifespan than a traditional projectile.
There will actually be cards called "constants," similar to artifacts in magic. They stay in play for a dictated amount of time (they're not in the action zone, and are not discarded), and in the case of some, have the ability to perform moves, be destroyed, etc.
Modulation: Holding an items change a characters available pieces/moves. Battering items are a great example but throwing items do the same. Also, Zelda can transform.
This will be represented on the item cards. As for Zelda, there will likely be a constant card allowing her to turn into sheik
Postures and Actions: Each character has different states or postures. In each posture are variable qualities and potential actions. Examples of postures could be, On ground, running, shielding, airborne, knocked down, on ledge, stunned, grabbed, Marth/Roys swords dance, and Fox's reflector. Actions have variable qualities and can transfer into different states.
These will all be techniques. Trying to incorporate them into the game adds unneeded complexity. When you started playing smash, was it because of the interest you had in proximities and positional advantages, or because it was fun and simple at first? The card game is just that-a card game-and while the theme of smash makes it interesting, it does not need to exactly reflect smash.
Proximity: Smash happens in a 2-dimensional space. Most TCGs are non-dimensional. (unglued is a good counter example.)
See complexity note above. Thanks for your comments! I'll happily answer any other questions as well... (P.S. I own the complete unglued set) Rhubarbo, if you want me to move this to a seperate topic, let me know.
The "Technique" cards have instant speed, and the stack works just like magic. Declare targets, declare spell, put spell on stack. Next instant speed card has priority. All actions are played with a card. Also, almost every item will have some sort of cantrip effect, and most of the General Actions will as well. The beginning draw step will allow players to draw two cards. Also, there will be no casting-cost, short of some special cards (Say, a card called "Roy's Charged UP+B!) requiring a damage cost or discard cost. The idea of escalation comes in setting up your hand the same way Marth did in that example. It's much more effective to play those 4-5 card combos than it is to use Boozer's upsmash. Even though bowser's upsmash causes significant damage, there will be several healing items, and I hope to make them far more useful in this game than they are in most. Good players, just as in smash, will spend the game creating complex setups and combos.
On escalation this model seems devoid of it. All cards in play minus the character are discarded at the beginning of your turn. Hand size seems to deplete quickly so the game seems like it would stagnate. The only things that grow or stay are Damage taken and character on the field. These are all fine, it's just something to consider.
I still have to playtest the hand size and card drawing things. Unfortunately, I do not have any really good way to do it.
Also:
Coin flips for recovery = bad. I really really really don't like coin flipping in TCGs. Heck most competitive game minimizes random chance. Chess has only 1 coin flip. Tournament Smash has controller port selection, random stage, Peach's Turnips, and G&W's SideB. Most Magic decks (which try to win) run the minimum deck size to minimze randomness. Pokemon TCG's greatest detriment is that it is plagued by coin flips.
On one level, I absolutely agree. But this was the only way I could think of to really keep the game going. I don't like the idea of just trying to beat down the other player's hp. With this "recovery" idea, the game can continue for quite some time. Some cards (Like Up! B! and You Must Recover!) will be techniques allowing for instant recovery, no matter the life, whereas some cards (which "spike) allow you the chance to recover, but do not allow you to use those cards. The other idea I had was to force players to discard from the top of their decks to stay in the game, but that idea went away when I realized that it would make games go on forever. I'm open to suggestions though.
imo, randomness can equal novelty. Novelty is fun. But randomness is an enemy of strategy. If you played a tournament match where your opponent, Peach, only pulled death-turnips and bomb-ombs, would that be fun? Maybe for peach, but say the Peach player was me and my opponent was Ken and I won. Was it due to my skill? A better question, would it be balanced?
I have a friend who does that! I see what you're saying, but I was hoping to include a level of strategy in it. For example, a good player will try to always have some sort of recovery card in his hand. A player who blows their load on a single combo should be punished for it if the combo doesn't kill, just as in smash. But without a good rendering of 3-d space, it's excessive to imagine that every battle takes place right next to the edge. The coin flip idea represents the concept of "Well, what if we're playing on Hyrule (a stage which actually gives each player 3 additional coins for every recovery). It's not fair that I get hit and die instantly, when in real smash I could simply tech off of the walls. But it's also not fair that I assume I'm surviving everything.
A few ideas for your consideration:
If you are trying to make it as close to the real game as possible. Consider these things.
Simultaneous Turns: Smash plays synchronically.
There aren't too many good ways to do this.
Initiative: Contrasting synchronization, different actions/pieces take varying amounts of time. Allowing for varying levels of initiative.
This is why some cards "exhaust" and others don't. It's also why some cards have coin flips and others don't.
Positional Strategy: Fighting in smash is also about where, when, and how you place yourself in the play-field.
I agree, but I wanted to keep this simple as possible. Great card games are simple in their rules and complex in their strategy. When I was playing tournament magic, it stopped being fun when there became too many rules.
Momentum/Slippery Slope: Roughly true, is that a player does not lose game pieces (oh noes! I'm above 77% I can no longer Ftilt.) as damage accumulates. Though, ledge moves change after 100%.
The coin flip idea.
Construction: Aside from projectiles or projectile-items, no characters can create other game agents. Considering projectiles, these agents have strict behavior, limitations on creation, and a short lifespan. Some items (pokeballs) have a much longer lifespan than a traditional projectile.
There will actually be cards called "constants," similar to artifacts in magic. They stay in play for a dictated amount of time (they're not in the action zone, and are not discarded), and in the case of some, have the ability to perform moves, be destroyed, etc.
Modulation: Holding an items change a characters available pieces/moves. Battering items are a great example but throwing items do the same. Also, Zelda can transform.
This will be represented on the item cards. As for Zelda, there will likely be a constant card allowing her to turn into sheik
Postures and Actions: Each character has different states or postures. In each posture are variable qualities and potential actions. Examples of postures could be, On ground, running, shielding, airborne, knocked down, on ledge, stunned, grabbed, Marth/Roys swords dance, and Fox's reflector. Actions have variable qualities and can transfer into different states.
These will all be techniques. Trying to incorporate them into the game adds unneeded complexity. When you started playing smash, was it because of the interest you had in proximities and positional advantages, or because it was fun and simple at first? The card game is just that-a card game-and while the theme of smash makes it interesting, it does not need to exactly reflect smash.
Proximity: Smash happens in a 2-dimensional space. Most TCGs are non-dimensional. (unglued is a good counter example.)
See complexity note above. Thanks for your comments! I'll happily answer any other questions as well... (P.S. I own the complete unglued set) Rhubarbo, if you want me to move this to a seperate topic, let me know.
Papapaint
Just your average kind of Luigi.
It's the amount they have left.
Rhubarbo, I really do like your game. I simply fear it'll go the way of the LOTR card game, or many others, in that it's too complex. It may not seem complex, but if you have to keep referring to the rulebook every single game, it's too much. Your game is asking a lot to remember. The beauty of Magic and Pokemon as card games was their simplicity. Magic: You pay costs, and you play stuff. Easy. Pokemon: You pay costs, you play stuff. No matter what the card, it had a cost, and you payed it.
The Noob Legend
Smash Ace
I made a few cards...
Check em out and tell me if you like em guys.
Plus, after a reply I have a few suggestions to help simplify the game a bit.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f126/jeremysaunders/mariobrawl001.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f126/jeremysaunders/climbup_action001.jpg
Check em out and tell me if you like em guys.
Plus, after a reply I have a few suggestions to help simplify the game a bit.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f126/jeremysaunders/mariobrawl001.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f126/jeremysaunders/climbup_action001.jpg
The Noob Legend
Smash Ace
Rhubarbo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2007
- Messages
- 2,035
WOW! JUST WOW! I love those cards TNL! The only beef I have with them is that the Climb Up card doesn't need the three Smash symbles! Otherwise that's exactly how I had envisioned the cards to be initially! If there is any particular program you are using that makes those cards would you please inform me about it.
Almightypancake, I love the idea of having two different card games in one topic! I think we can help each other's games grow even more this way! If you want to make your own topic go ahead, but I don't mind one bit if you post in this topic!
And, about the rules of my game... Well, I must admit, they are more complex and hard to grasp at first, but, after a while it becomes second nature. What the problem with my rule book was is that it was way too difficult to comprehend (I've been out of school for 5 weeks being sick and all) so my writing skills were in a bit of a pickle. I'm planning on posting a video on Youtube demonstrating the rules with more clarity and along with commentary.
Almightypancake, I love the idea of having two different card games in one topic! I think we can help each other's games grow even more this way! If you want to make your own topic go ahead, but I don't mind one bit if you post in this topic!
And, about the rules of my game... Well, I must admit, they are more complex and hard to grasp at first, but, after a while it becomes second nature. What the problem with my rule book was is that it was way too difficult to comprehend (I've been out of school for 5 weeks being sick and all) so my writing skills were in a bit of a pickle. I'm planning on posting a video on Youtube demonstrating the rules with more clarity and along with commentary.
Rhubarbo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2007
- Messages
- 2,035
Well, the video looks like it will reallistically be coming out in 1-2 weeks. This is because I'm going to get card sleeves (I am not really planning on making a backing for the cards unless someone is willing to put their time into it), photo paper (which is thicker than regular paper and will make the cards easier to shuffle and play with).
A new rule I'm thinking of adding is that you actually pick your starting character by looking for it through your deck. Any opinions on wheather you guys think this would be better?
Papapaint
Just your average kind of Luigi.
In my opinion, that would be significantly better. Another qualm I have with your game is the character system--by forcing players to have the character cards in their deck, you give them a whole lot of slag cards. It would be incredibly disappointing to draw one of those cards, particularly during a close game.
Rhubarbo
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2007
- Messages
- 2,035
Yeah, but the benefit of that is you can tag into new cards changing your whole gameplay style and pull a fast one on your opponent. I might make a Gameplay Variant about that though just so people can choose to play however they choose.
Almightypancake - thanks for the responses! I don't have time to adequately ask more, respond, and put forward some ideas. So I'll post again probably tomorrow morning. (Friday night woo!)
Few quick notes
Simultaneous turns: You are right, working to implement such an idea would be horribly complicated. It would probably have to be done with a program instead of physical cards. A good example of this is Star Chamber(www.starchamber.net). A game made by the team that works on LOTR online and a few others. The game is dying right now and is overly complicated. But it has the first instance of a TCG with Syncronized turns that I've seen.
Simplicity: Awesome. I'm so so glad that your emphasizing this. I've only tried making a couple of games and the problem I keep running into is complexity. Simple but deep game are the best. ex. Go.
Another thing I want to ask. What have you written up so far? Have you made a Design Doc for the game? Or only the rules so far? If you have the Design Doc or the working rules I would really like to read it.
Rhubarbo - When I looked at your game and it just seemed overly complicated. I'm worried it will take to much written notation. How much damage, how much life, how many points. And without complete written rules, the cards I looked at seems way too text-y and complicated. I'm not trying to knock down your ideas though. I just haven't given enough time to reading through everything just to figure the game out. I'll inspect it again and try to respond specifically to your ideas. What I really need is an example of how the game flows.
Few quick notes
Simultaneous turns: You are right, working to implement such an idea would be horribly complicated. It would probably have to be done with a program instead of physical cards. A good example of this is Star Chamber(www.starchamber.net). A game made by the team that works on LOTR online and a few others. The game is dying right now and is overly complicated. But it has the first instance of a TCG with Syncronized turns that I've seen.
Simplicity: Awesome. I'm so so glad that your emphasizing this. I've only tried making a couple of games and the problem I keep running into is complexity. Simple but deep game are the best. ex. Go.
Another thing I want to ask. What have you written up so far? Have you made a Design Doc for the game? Or only the rules so far? If you have the Design Doc or the working rules I would really like to read it.
Rhubarbo - When I looked at your game and it just seemed overly complicated. I'm worried it will take to much written notation. How much damage, how much life, how many points. And without complete written rules, the cards I looked at seems way too text-y and complicated. I'm not trying to knock down your ideas though. I just haven't given enough time to reading through everything just to figure the game out. I'll inspect it again and try to respond specifically to your ideas. What I really need is an example of how the game flows.
TheFifthMan
Smash Journeyman
I pulled your rules from earlier, and I did stuff to them in my BDSM dungeon of Edition and Revision.
All major game mechanical edit suggestions are in italics. (All edit notes are in parentheses.) All clarifying text additions are in bold. Any minor edits are omitted from notation. All rules requiring immediate clarification or revision are in Bolded Red.
Deck Construction:
To play the game, you should have a deck consisting of Action Cards, Character Cards, Item Cards (because real men use items) and Stage Hazard Cards. You may only have four of each card in your deck, except for Basic Action Cards for which you may have as many as you wish. Your deck must have at least X amount of cards. (Edit note: Why bother having an upper deck limit if a bigger deck means less of a chance of drawing a card essential to your strategy?)
THE GOLDEN RULE: WHEN THE CARD’S TEXT CONFLICTS WITH THE GAME’S RULES, FOLLOW THE CARD’S TEXT.
Victory Condidtions:
To achieve a victory, you have to reduce your opponents Stock Count to zero. You may decide on the amount of stocks you wish to play with before the game. In order to reduce your opponent’s Stock Count, you must KO a card by reducing the card’s stock count to zero. (Edit note: is the Player’s Stock Count different from the Card’s Stock Count? This will need to be clarified.)
Another way to win a Brawl is if you opponent's deck runs out of cards. (There is another way to play, just check the Gameplay Variations section for more details.)
If an opponent does not have a Character Card in play, they lose a Player's Stock each turn. (See Gamplay Variations for another version).
Turn Structure:
Beginning Play:
To begin the game, each player draws 7 cards. If either player is dissatisfied with his hand, he may show his hand to the opponent, shuffle his hand into his deck, and draw six cards. If the player is still dissatisfied, he may repeat the process, drawing one less card each time. (Edit note: Why force the player to play a hand? It is entirely possible to draw a hand of all character cards, or have one character card and all item cards… if you’re using Action Cards as resources, it is entirely possible to be “mana-screwed” in this game.) The least a player can have on their initial hand is 1 card; so build a balanced deck.
After both players have an acceptable hand, they play one Character Card facedown on the gameplay area. Both cards are revealed simultaneously. Now decide who will play first using a coin or a die. The player that wins the coin toss determines who goes first.
Field Anatomy:
The zones of play are as follows:
Recovery 1 – Play 1 – Neutral – Play 2 – Recovery 1
Character cards enter play in the player's respective Play Zone. Combat typically occurs in the Play 1, Neutral, and Play 2 zones, and the Recovery Zones allow each player to recover their characters and return to the Combat Zones.
Turn Structure Continued:
After the starting player is decided, they enter their Prep Phase.
Prep Phase.
The person that went first in the Prep Phase goes first in the Brawl Phase. He may activate one action card and that card’s effect will activate. Then the opponent may activate an Action Card. This exchange occurs 5 times. Card effects resolve immediately, and used Action Cards are sent to the Discard Pile. Unused Action Cards may be stored for the next round.
Examples of Attack Action Card Types: (Edit Note: Try to find another place for these things.)
Attack: Each of these cards allows you to activate an attack. Each attack requires a certain amount of POINTS to be used. Each Attack Action card has a POINTS value on it. A Standard card would have 2-3 points. Some Special Cards might have 7 points, but they will definitely have side effects...If an attack costs less than the number on the Attack Card, you may store that extra POINT/POINTS for later this round. However, those/that POINT(S) is not carried over into a new round. If an attack costs more than the amount of POINTS on a specific card, you may activate another Attack Card. Manage how you do this wisely. (Edit: Where do the points come from? I’m assuming you start with seven points or something… do you just start with seven points or do certain characters have different Point pools?)
Shield: Shields block a certain amount of damage from happening to your character. If the shield is broken, you may not participate in the next exchange. (I am assuming that an exchange = you play one card then I play one card)
Jump: Jumping allows you to avoid some attacks.
Advance: Move a Zone forwards
Retreat: Move a Zone backwards
Edgeguard: Block an opponent from recovering.
Tag: EXPLAIN IN CARD TEXT
Throw: Throw an item
Climb Back: EXPLAIN IN CARD TEXT
Now, how can you KO a character. Well, this is done by achieving a certain amount of damage on them, then pulling off a KO move. Each card has a stat which indicates how much damage they can sustain. If that damage meter is reached/surpassed they will be sent flying. Where the card is also effects this. If it is in the card holder's Play Zone, it is eassier to KO because it is closer to the ledge. If it is in the other player's Play Zone, it is far harder to KO. It will also have a stat for the Neutral Zone. (It is as though the cards are always facing the same direction). (EDIT NOTE: See bottom of page.)
A character can try to recover by using an attack card, then using their recover move. This move has a specified amount of damage that it will allow the card to recover up to. Certain recovery moves have effects. If a character does not complete a recovery, they are KOed, lose a Character Stock and "re-spawn" in the player's Play Zone. Edgeguard cards can be activated if you are next to a Recovery Zone, where characters stay for one of their Exchanges after a recovery is complete. Normally, you can not move into this Zone. When in there, the Edge Guard card allows you to pull of a KO move, but it will deal double the damage than usual...but it can be stopped. If a recovering player has a climb back card, they nullify the Edgeguard!
Turn Order Tree:
Prep Phase Player1-Prep Phase Player2-Battle Exchange-Prep Phase Player2-Prep Phase Player 1-Battle Exchange-Prep Phase Player1...
Editor’s Notes:
It’s a really good idea, but the biggest issue I see here is clarification of rules. What you need to do, badly, is to make things clearer and organize more efficiently. Take a look at the Magic rule book (http://www.wizards.com/magic/rules/MagicRulebook_10E_EN.pdf) and see how things are organized. I know that all TCGs are clones of Magic anyway, but that’s the reason why it’s the best. After all, imitation is a form of flattery…
Section 1 is for the basics, and has Parts of a Card, Card Types, and Play Zones.
Section 2 is for the actions you can make in a game. It defines, in near certainty, what Playing a Spell, Targeting, Response, Attacking and Blocking, and the Golden Rule are.
Section 3 defines the phases of play.
Section 4 is the Glossary.
When rearranging your rules, however, I would suggest that you integrate Phases of Play and Actions because a lot of your high-use cards may only be used in certain phases.
You’ll notice that I erased a lot of Action Card types with “EXPLAIN IN CARD TEXT.” The Golden Rule renders a lot of those explanations obsolete.
Lastly, if it looks like I twisted your rules around, it is most likely because they need clarification or revision.
All major game mechanical edit suggestions are in italics. (All edit notes are in parentheses.) All clarifying text additions are in bold. Any minor edits are omitted from notation. All rules requiring immediate clarification or revision are in Bolded Red.
Deck Construction:
To play the game, you should have a deck consisting of Action Cards, Character Cards, Item Cards (because real men use items) and Stage Hazard Cards. You may only have four of each card in your deck, except for Basic Action Cards for which you may have as many as you wish. Your deck must have at least X amount of cards. (Edit note: Why bother having an upper deck limit if a bigger deck means less of a chance of drawing a card essential to your strategy?)
THE GOLDEN RULE: WHEN THE CARD’S TEXT CONFLICTS WITH THE GAME’S RULES, FOLLOW THE CARD’S TEXT.
Victory Condidtions:
To achieve a victory, you have to reduce your opponents Stock Count to zero. You may decide on the amount of stocks you wish to play with before the game. In order to reduce your opponent’s Stock Count, you must KO a card by reducing the card’s stock count to zero. (Edit note: is the Player’s Stock Count different from the Card’s Stock Count? This will need to be clarified.)
Another way to win a Brawl is if you opponent's deck runs out of cards. (There is another way to play, just check the Gameplay Variations section for more details.)
If an opponent does not have a Character Card in play, they lose a Player's Stock each turn. (See Gamplay Variations for another version).
Turn Structure:
Beginning Play:
To begin the game, each player draws 7 cards. If either player is dissatisfied with his hand, he may show his hand to the opponent, shuffle his hand into his deck, and draw six cards. If the player is still dissatisfied, he may repeat the process, drawing one less card each time. (Edit note: Why force the player to play a hand? It is entirely possible to draw a hand of all character cards, or have one character card and all item cards… if you’re using Action Cards as resources, it is entirely possible to be “mana-screwed” in this game.) The least a player can have on their initial hand is 1 card; so build a balanced deck.
After both players have an acceptable hand, they play one Character Card facedown on the gameplay area. Both cards are revealed simultaneously. Now decide who will play first using a coin or a die. The player that wins the coin toss determines who goes first.
Field Anatomy:
The zones of play are as follows:
Recovery 1 – Play 1 – Neutral – Play 2 – Recovery 1
Character cards enter play in the player's respective Play Zone. Combat typically occurs in the Play 1, Neutral, and Play 2 zones, and the Recovery Zones allow each player to recover their characters and return to the Combat Zones.
Turn Structure Continued:
After the starting player is decided, they enter their Prep Phase.
Prep Phase.
- Begin by drawing a card from your deck. If you do not have a Character Card in play, you lose a Player Stock.
- If there are any card effects that state that an effect must occur in the Prep Phase, play the effects.
- You may play Item Cards, Augmentation Cards, Stage Hazards, and up to 7 Action Cards now.(Are Augmentations special cards?)
- Once finished, your opponent enters his Prep Phase.
- Once your opponent’s Prep Phase is finished, enter the Brawl Phase.
The person that went first in the Prep Phase goes first in the Brawl Phase. He may activate one action card and that card’s effect will activate. Then the opponent may activate an Action Card. This exchange occurs 5 times. Card effects resolve immediately, and used Action Cards are sent to the Discard Pile. Unused Action Cards may be stored for the next round.
Examples of Attack Action Card Types: (Edit Note: Try to find another place for these things.)
Attack: Each of these cards allows you to activate an attack. Each attack requires a certain amount of POINTS to be used. Each Attack Action card has a POINTS value on it. A Standard card would have 2-3 points. Some Special Cards might have 7 points, but they will definitely have side effects...If an attack costs less than the number on the Attack Card, you may store that extra POINT/POINTS for later this round. However, those/that POINT(S) is not carried over into a new round. If an attack costs more than the amount of POINTS on a specific card, you may activate another Attack Card. Manage how you do this wisely. (Edit: Where do the points come from? I’m assuming you start with seven points or something… do you just start with seven points or do certain characters have different Point pools?)
Shield: Shields block a certain amount of damage from happening to your character. If the shield is broken, you may not participate in the next exchange. (I am assuming that an exchange = you play one card then I play one card)
Jump: Jumping allows you to avoid some attacks.
Advance: Move a Zone forwards
Retreat: Move a Zone backwards
Edgeguard: Block an opponent from recovering.
Tag: EXPLAIN IN CARD TEXT
Throw: Throw an item
Climb Back: EXPLAIN IN CARD TEXT
Now, how can you KO a character. Well, this is done by achieving a certain amount of damage on them, then pulling off a KO move. Each card has a stat which indicates how much damage they can sustain. If that damage meter is reached/surpassed they will be sent flying. Where the card is also effects this. If it is in the card holder's Play Zone, it is eassier to KO because it is closer to the ledge. If it is in the other player's Play Zone, it is far harder to KO. It will also have a stat for the Neutral Zone. (It is as though the cards are always facing the same direction). (EDIT NOTE: See bottom of page.)
A character can try to recover by using an attack card, then using their recover move. This move has a specified amount of damage that it will allow the card to recover up to. Certain recovery moves have effects. If a character does not complete a recovery, they are KOed, lose a Character Stock and "re-spawn" in the player's Play Zone. Edgeguard cards can be activated if you are next to a Recovery Zone, where characters stay for one of their Exchanges after a recovery is complete. Normally, you can not move into this Zone. When in there, the Edge Guard card allows you to pull of a KO move, but it will deal double the damage than usual...but it can be stopped. If a recovering player has a climb back card, they nullify the Edgeguard!
Turn Order Tree:
Prep Phase Player1-Prep Phase Player2-Battle Exchange-Prep Phase Player2-Prep Phase Player 1-Battle Exchange-Prep Phase Player1...
Editor’s Notes:
It’s a really good idea, but the biggest issue I see here is clarification of rules. What you need to do, badly, is to make things clearer and organize more efficiently. Take a look at the Magic rule book (http://www.wizards.com/magic/rules/MagicRulebook_10E_EN.pdf) and see how things are organized. I know that all TCGs are clones of Magic anyway, but that’s the reason why it’s the best. After all, imitation is a form of flattery…
Section 1 is for the basics, and has Parts of a Card, Card Types, and Play Zones.
Section 2 is for the actions you can make in a game. It defines, in near certainty, what Playing a Spell, Targeting, Response, Attacking and Blocking, and the Golden Rule are.
Section 3 defines the phases of play.
Section 4 is the Glossary.
When rearranging your rules, however, I would suggest that you integrate Phases of Play and Actions because a lot of your high-use cards may only be used in certain phases.
You’ll notice that I erased a lot of Action Card types with “EXPLAIN IN CARD TEXT.” The Golden Rule renders a lot of those explanations obsolete.
Lastly, if it looks like I twisted your rules around, it is most likely because they need clarification or revision.
Papapaint
Just your average kind of Luigi.
Here are my working rules, all copyrighted.
Golden Rule-If a card contradicts the rules, the card takes precedence. I.E: The rules state only one action may be taken in a turn. However, the card Marth's F-Air has the text "You may play another Aerial after this one." This means that you may play another action card with the modifier text "Aerial."
I. How to win
_A. Defeat your opponent or opponents by rendering them unable to recover.
__1. When an opponent's HP reaches 20 or below, they must flip a coin for every 5 health.
__2. If one of those coins is heads, they have successfully recovered. If none are, they have not and have lost the game.
__3. If a card "forces recovery," flip a coin for every 5 health you have.
_B. Your opponent attempts to draw a card, but has none left in their deck.
II. Zones of play
_ A. Deck
__ 1. The deck zone contains your deck. The deck must be a minimum of 60 cards, and can contain no more than 4 copies of any one card. Cards deemed "Rare" according to their text box are allowed only one copy in the deck.
__ 2. The deck may not contain character cards.
_ B. Character Zone
__ 1. The character Zone contains each player's character.
__ 2. No card enters or exits the character zone once play has begun.
_ C. Constant Zone
__ 1. Cards with the "Constant" modifier go in this zone.
__ 2. When cards in this pile are destroyed, they go into the Discard Zone
_D. Action Zone
__ 1. When you play a card, it goes here.
__ 2. Cards remain in the action zone until the discard stage at the beginning of your turn, in which all cards in the action zone are placed in the discard zone.
_E. Stage Zone
__1. The "stage" goes here.
__2. No card enters or leaves this zone once the game starts.
_ F. Discard Zone-any card leaving play enters this zone.
_ G. Removed from game-Some cards cause a card to be "removed from the game". Place these cards in this zone. They are no longer in play at all.
_H. The Priority List
__1. The priority list is more of a non-physical space. It is similar to the "stack" in magic. Basically, the most recently played card comes into play first.
__2. As of now, only technique cards may be played while another card is on the Priority List.
III. Kinds of Cards
_A. Characters
__ 1. Character cards only contain two forms of information.
___ a. HP, or the amount of damage the character can take.
___ b. Any modifier text (fast, heavy, etc.)
__2. Characters may be exhausted. If they are exhausted, they may not use any action cards.
_ B. Actions
__1. General actions.
___a. General actions may be played no matter which character you control.
___ b. Whenever a general action is played, it goes into the action zone.
___ c. General actions remain in the action zone until the next discard phase.
__2. Constant Actions
___a. These cards go into the constant zone, and remain there until they are destroyed in some way.
___b. When destroyed, these cards go into the discard zone.
__3. Character Specific Action
___ a. Character Specific actions may only be played when the character dictated by the card is under your control.
___ b. Character actions may also be constant actions.
___ c. Treat Character Actions as either general or constant actions, according to their text.
__4. Only one Action card may be played in a turn. An action card may not be played during your opponents turn.
__5. An action card may not be played if your character is exhausted.
_ C. Techniques
__1. Techniques may be played at any time and in any quantity during a turn. When you perform a technique "in response" to another action, the technique goes on the "Priority list".
__2. The most recently played technique enters play first.
__3. General Techniques.
___ a. General techniques may be played no matter which character you control. They go into the Action Zone.
___ b. General techniques remain in the action zone until the next discard phase.
__4. Constant Techniques
___a. These cards go into the constant zone, and remain there until they are destroyed in some way.
___ b. When destroyed, these cards go into the discard zone.
__5. Character Specific Techniques.
___a. Character Specific techniques may only be played when the character dictated by the card is under your control.
___ b. Character techniques may also be constant techniques.
___ c. Treat Character techniques as either general or constant techniques, according to their text.
_D. Items
__1. Only one item may be used in a turn.
__2. Items come in three forms: Regular Items and Constant Items
___a. Regular Items enter the Action zone, and are discarded during the discard phase.
___b. Constant items either represent an Assist Trophy, Pokemon, or equippable weapon. They go into the Constant zone, and remain there until destroyed in some way.
_E. Stages
__1. Stages are in a seperate deck. They are not allowed in a player's deck.
__2. Stages modify the game in some way. They may not be destroyed or removed from game.
__3. They remain in the stage zone.
IV. Turn structure.
_ A. Turns have only three parts to them: Discard, Draw, and Action.
_ B. Discard Phase
__1. The player in control (whose turn it is) must discard all cards in their action zone.
__2. They must also discard cards from their hand until he has 6 or fewer.
_C. Draw Phase
__1. The player in control draws two cards.
__2. If a player can not draw any cards, they lose the game. If they can only draw one card, they do not lose the game.
_ D. Action Phase.
__1. The player may do any combination of the following things: Use one item. Use one Action Card. Use a Technique.
__2. The player may choose to do nothing. If this occurs, exhaust the character.
Golden Rule-If a card contradicts the rules, the card takes precedence. I.E: The rules state only one action may be taken in a turn. However, the card Marth's F-Air has the text "You may play another Aerial after this one." This means that you may play another action card with the modifier text "Aerial."
I. How to win
_A. Defeat your opponent or opponents by rendering them unable to recover.
__1. When an opponent's HP reaches 20 or below, they must flip a coin for every 5 health.
__2. If one of those coins is heads, they have successfully recovered. If none are, they have not and have lost the game.
__3. If a card "forces recovery," flip a coin for every 5 health you have.
_B. Your opponent attempts to draw a card, but has none left in their deck.
II. Zones of play
_ A. Deck
__ 1. The deck zone contains your deck. The deck must be a minimum of 60 cards, and can contain no more than 4 copies of any one card. Cards deemed "Rare" according to their text box are allowed only one copy in the deck.
__ 2. The deck may not contain character cards.
_ B. Character Zone
__ 1. The character Zone contains each player's character.
__ 2. No card enters or exits the character zone once play has begun.
_ C. Constant Zone
__ 1. Cards with the "Constant" modifier go in this zone.
__ 2. When cards in this pile are destroyed, they go into the Discard Zone
_D. Action Zone
__ 1. When you play a card, it goes here.
__ 2. Cards remain in the action zone until the discard stage at the beginning of your turn, in which all cards in the action zone are placed in the discard zone.
_E. Stage Zone
__1. The "stage" goes here.
__2. No card enters or leaves this zone once the game starts.
_ F. Discard Zone-any card leaving play enters this zone.
_ G. Removed from game-Some cards cause a card to be "removed from the game". Place these cards in this zone. They are no longer in play at all.
_H. The Priority List
__1. The priority list is more of a non-physical space. It is similar to the "stack" in magic. Basically, the most recently played card comes into play first.
__2. As of now, only technique cards may be played while another card is on the Priority List.
III. Kinds of Cards
_A. Characters
__ 1. Character cards only contain two forms of information.
___ a. HP, or the amount of damage the character can take.
___ b. Any modifier text (fast, heavy, etc.)
__2. Characters may be exhausted. If they are exhausted, they may not use any action cards.
_ B. Actions
__1. General actions.
___a. General actions may be played no matter which character you control.
___ b. Whenever a general action is played, it goes into the action zone.
___ c. General actions remain in the action zone until the next discard phase.
__2. Constant Actions
___a. These cards go into the constant zone, and remain there until they are destroyed in some way.
___b. When destroyed, these cards go into the discard zone.
__3. Character Specific Action
___ a. Character Specific actions may only be played when the character dictated by the card is under your control.
___ b. Character actions may also be constant actions.
___ c. Treat Character Actions as either general or constant actions, according to their text.
__4. Only one Action card may be played in a turn. An action card may not be played during your opponents turn.
__5. An action card may not be played if your character is exhausted.
_ C. Techniques
__1. Techniques may be played at any time and in any quantity during a turn. When you perform a technique "in response" to another action, the technique goes on the "Priority list".
__2. The most recently played technique enters play first.
__3. General Techniques.
___ a. General techniques may be played no matter which character you control. They go into the Action Zone.
___ b. General techniques remain in the action zone until the next discard phase.
__4. Constant Techniques
___a. These cards go into the constant zone, and remain there until they are destroyed in some way.
___ b. When destroyed, these cards go into the discard zone.
__5. Character Specific Techniques.
___a. Character Specific techniques may only be played when the character dictated by the card is under your control.
___ b. Character techniques may also be constant techniques.
___ c. Treat Character techniques as either general or constant techniques, according to their text.
_D. Items
__1. Only one item may be used in a turn.
__2. Items come in three forms: Regular Items and Constant Items
___a. Regular Items enter the Action zone, and are discarded during the discard phase.
___b. Constant items either represent an Assist Trophy, Pokemon, or equippable weapon. They go into the Constant zone, and remain there until destroyed in some way.
_E. Stages
__1. Stages are in a seperate deck. They are not allowed in a player's deck.
__2. Stages modify the game in some way. They may not be destroyed or removed from game.
__3. They remain in the stage zone.
IV. Turn structure.
_ A. Turns have only three parts to them: Discard, Draw, and Action.
_ B. Discard Phase
__1. The player in control (whose turn it is) must discard all cards in their action zone.
__2. They must also discard cards from their hand until he has 6 or fewer.
_C. Draw Phase
__1. The player in control draws two cards.
__2. If a player can not draw any cards, they lose the game. If they can only draw one card, they do not lose the game.
_ D. Action Phase.
__1. The player may do any combination of the following things: Use one item. Use one Action Card. Use a Technique.
__2. The player may choose to do nothing. If this occurs, exhaust the character.
AlmightyP- could you put your game in another topic. I'm pretty much only responding to your idea. I don't want to clutter up Rhubarb's thread.
Randomness.
Coin flipping was my main objection to your rules. The core of my objection is that excessive randomness, while fun, will unbalance the game and take away from strategy. Is this really the case here? Is coin flipping while recovering going to remove much strategy? Well after looking at it again I don't think it will. But just make sure these happen.
1) Players have enough time to make strategic decisions.
-You have stated Healing, and considering HP and damage are relative to each other I'm sure this could be balanced easily.
2) Have safety nets.
-you have recovery cards. Maybe more than 1 stock could be cool.
On the rules here are some quick questions:
__4. Only one Action card may be played in a turn. An action card may not be played during your opponents turn.
__5. An action card may not be played if your character is exhausted.
Why have exhaustion? If you can only play one Action card a turn. What is the point of creating this condition? "Short Hop Slash!" already goes around this the 1 card a turn rule. "Up-claw!" Specifies exhaustion but it wouldn't matter because bowser could not play another card anyways. I don't see the reason to have both. Either just have, You can't play action cards when exhausted and specify which cards exhaust. Eliminating the only 1 action card a turn rule. -Or- eliminate exhaustion and keep the 1 card a turn rule.
Though I could see keeping both if exhaustion is used to limit the power of some techniques. But then the last rule makes no sense to me.
__2. The player may choose to do nothing. If this occurs, exhaust the character.
So if you want to play non-exhausted response-technique cards you must play a technique card during your turn? Why create this loophole. Just don't exhaust the character at the end of the turn.
I might run through the rules again and edit some stuff, but for the most part it's really clear. I'd like to help anyway that I can. I can easily do some play testing. I've already told some of my friends that this sounds cool and they would help me do it. I would love to help make some cards to. But that depends on seeing where you are going before I just start throwing out ideas. Like what terms you have down, what cards you have already made.
Randomness.
Coin flipping was my main objection to your rules. The core of my objection is that excessive randomness, while fun, will unbalance the game and take away from strategy. Is this really the case here? Is coin flipping while recovering going to remove much strategy? Well after looking at it again I don't think it will. But just make sure these happen.
1) Players have enough time to make strategic decisions.
-You have stated Healing, and considering HP and damage are relative to each other I'm sure this could be balanced easily.
2) Have safety nets.
-you have recovery cards. Maybe more than 1 stock could be cool.
On the rules here are some quick questions:
__4. Only one Action card may be played in a turn. An action card may not be played during your opponents turn.
__5. An action card may not be played if your character is exhausted.
Why have exhaustion? If you can only play one Action card a turn. What is the point of creating this condition? "Short Hop Slash!" already goes around this the 1 card a turn rule. "Up-claw!" Specifies exhaustion but it wouldn't matter because bowser could not play another card anyways. I don't see the reason to have both. Either just have, You can't play action cards when exhausted and specify which cards exhaust. Eliminating the only 1 action card a turn rule. -Or- eliminate exhaustion and keep the 1 card a turn rule.
Though I could see keeping both if exhaustion is used to limit the power of some techniques. But then the last rule makes no sense to me.
__2. The player may choose to do nothing. If this occurs, exhaust the character.
So if you want to play non-exhausted response-technique cards you must play a technique card during your turn? Why create this loophole. Just don't exhaust the character at the end of the turn.
I might run through the rules again and edit some stuff, but for the most part it's really clear. I'd like to help anyway that I can. I can easily do some play testing. I've already told some of my friends that this sounds cool and they would help me do it. I would love to help make some cards to. But that depends on seeing where you are going before I just start throwing out ideas. Like what terms you have down, what cards you have already made.