Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[Da-D-Mon-109]

The animations for Psychic and Confusion and the like are just Mewtwo going vwoosh and then the enemy dies. The background changes sometimes, but there's no indication of any type of energy coming from Mewtwo and going to the enemy. And where'd you find the description?

Otherwise, you make good points, but it doesn't affect my stance. Whatever Psychic is or does, it doesn't need a medium to carry it, so a suit being in the way would not influence it.

:flame:
To the first thing you said, if you need a definite example, look at the 3D games. Pokemon Stadium and 2 were horrible Grapphically, but look at Colloseum, XD Gale of Darkness, and Battle Revolution. You see them release energy, the energy move towards the enemy, and then the enemy being destroyed. As for the description, turn on any game system and look up the moves. You could also check Bulbapedia, Serebii.net, Smogon.com, or any other Pokemon encyclapedia......

However let this be copletely clear. I AM NOT trying to provide proof for Samus beating Mewtwo. A Pokemon that can manupulate matter, decimate armies without moving, and blow away stampedes and change the weather simply by waving his hand... yeah, not going to be beaten by a simple bounty hunter. Mewtwo can even stop beams of pure energy that would normally obliterate anything it touches, so I doubt he would have issues defending himself against Samus' attcks. I am definitly supporting Mewtwo destroying Samus in a fight. Just not Mewtwo going Jedi and blowing up her brain or Force Choking her. That would be Lucario.
:flame:

Ganon's spirit comes back in OOA/OOS. He simply didn't have a body/Didn't have a body in that realm.

At the end of WW Ganon turns into stone after being stabbed in the head by a sword. It may seem like Link indeed killed him, but do they say so? No. When a person turns into stone in other works of fantasy, do they really die? Most of the time, they don't. Does the ending suggest that all is well and that evil will never befall the land again? No. Has the Triforce, the artifact that binds Link, Zelda and Ganon for evermore, been destroyed? No.

Ganondorf can't die.

:flame:
Back up the claim that his spirit was even in another realm in Oracle of Ages and Seasons, and that he simply lacked a body. If this was so, Ganon wouldn't hae been REVIVED simply as a mindless monster when Twinrova failed to sacrifce Zelda to BRING HIM BACK TO LIFE and had to use their own lives to RESURRECT him.

And, just out of personal curiosity, not having anything to do with this conversation, who all has been brought back to life after being turned to stone? Harry Potter's friends (through indirrect petrification) and Piccolo are the only 2 that honestly come to mind.

But the Triforce of Power does leave Ganondorf before that battle, or else the King of Hyrule wouldn't have been able to use it to drown Hyrule. The Triforce of Power was the only thing that gives Ganondof the ability to have a chance at reviving after he is killed. Without it, he is easily killable by these peoples. The same thing happens in Twilight Princess, although since he's been REVIVED once, he might come back after that. The triforce wasn't destroyed, no, but Ganondof no longer possessed it at the end of either game's timelines. He's definitely going to need someone's help being BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE AGAIN if he wants to pester Link another time, less Vaati become the new Zelda Villain.

I never said that Evil wouldn't exist again. Heck, Ganondorf could indeed come back and cause troubles. I'm saying, and so would any other rational person, that Ganondorf got killed.

Edit:Adventures of Link, where the remains of Ganon's army wanted to use Link's blood to REVIVE Ganon, although they failed at trying to do so. Another scenario where GANON DIED.

Edit Edit:If Captain Falcon got in his Blue Falcon, bashed into Ganondorf's chest with his Car, and flew Ganondorf's butt into a Black Hole or the Run, Ganondorf would not be coming back. And about the time lines, in the Adult Series, the Toon Link Games (most famous due to Wind Waker) is the last game in the series. This is indeed true. I don't know this. I simply looked it up. I always thought that it was outright the last game. But it's one part of a divergent time line, is all.
:flame:

 

[bobson]

To the first thing you said, if you need a definite example, look at the 3D games. Pokemon Stadium and 2 were horrible Grapphically, but look at Colloseum, XD Gale of Darkness, and Battle Revolution. You see them release energy, the energy move towards the enemy, and then the enemy being destroyed.

I'm pretty sure the main games would reflect canon better than the side games, but then, the main games were limited graphically...
I dunno.

In every case I can find, Pokedex entries for psychic types are worded specifically to have them using psychokinetic power. The problem is psychokinesis doesn't really have defined limits.

And, just out of personal curiosity, not having anything to do with this conversation, who all has been brought back to life after being turned to stone? Harry Potter's friends (through indirrect petrification) and Piccolo are the only 2 that honestly come to mind.

In a curiously relevant incident, Ash was turned to stone after getting beamed by both Mew and Mewtwo, then revived when Pikachu cried on him.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

I'm pretty sure the main games would reflect canon better than the side games, but then, the main games were limited graphically...
I dunno.

In a curiously relevant incident, Ash was turned to stone after getting beamed by both Mew and Mewtwo, then revived when Pikachu cried on him.

:flame:
Considering the Shadow Pokemon Incident being tied to the 4th movie, I still consider it Cannon. To me, the side games are the ones were yo play as your weird little creature in the Mystery Dungeon Games, as well as the various Pinball and Card Games. An I'd have to say Grapphically, most of the "main games" did fail. But Nintendo is good about having awesome games without them looking the absolute best.

And wow, I completely forgot about the first movie where Mewtwo kicks butt. But he was petrified at the bottom of an ocean with a sword in his skull and the immortal triangle of power already used up. Untl they release another Wind Waker (series/style/storyline, I'll better clerify from now on) game with Ganondorf in it, he's pretty much fully finished off in that timeline. And until the new Zelda Wii shows Ganondorf BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE AGAIN, he has been indeed finished off in the Twilight Princess Story Line.
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[Corigames]

"A Pokemon that can manupulate matter, decimate armies without moving, and blow away stampedes and change the weather simply by waving his hand... yeah, not going to be beaten by a simple bounty hunter."

I hate people.

Hate them so much. So very, very much.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

:flame:
To Coreygames, I agree with your note on Psychic not shattering Samus' skull. But it can easilly break eveyrhing else, from a Pokemon as strong as mewtwo.

Samus' suit does indeed give her life, but it isn't immortality, or else the games wouldn't be playable. She'd never be killable, and could just walk around blowing everything up. She can only take so much before her life support fails (as seen in the games), and Mewtwo is quite a bit too much for most Pokemon to take. Also, in the Pokemon anime, Psychic Pokemon are capable of easily manipulating their enemy's every move and action. If Mewtwo can do it to around 500 creatures, as well as humans, he can do it to Samus as well.

And I'd like to see what Pokemon you are talking about. Out of the near 500 Pokemon in existance, I'm willing to bet that Mewtwo can easily slaughter atleast 300 of them alone. If the hit is Super Effective, there's pretty much a 0% chance of Mewtwo's target surviving. Please get the statistics to prove me wrong, or atleast list the Pokemon you are talking about that should be able to survive a Super Effective Mewtwo Psychic under any condition. And again, Psychic = Mental Energy Blast, not Suit Surpassing Rapist Invasion move. And most Pokemon are smart. People shouldn't stereotype animals being stupid just because they are animals. Granted, there aren't lots of Genious Pokemon, but most Pokemon aren't stupid.

And if you put a Vegetable on Life Support, then use Psionic Energy to shatter it like an Egg in your Palm, it's going to go down. Period. And again, her Suit's Life Support has failed in the past, one most noted feature was during the X Parasite insident, as well as being attacked by Dark Samus.

Also, Mewtwo isn't a copy of Mew. Let us note that Mewtwo has actually been biologically advanced to have Super Skin that can Resist Powerful Weapons in any situation. While other Pokemon have appeared that are around just as strong, Mewtwo was indeed created to be the world's most Powerful Pokemon. And there isn't much that can say he isn't. He just has to share his title.

To Bob, Telekenisis simply requires the mind to use it and the target to be hurt by it. It does have to be enimated from it's attacker, but it isn't requiring traveling through anything specific to slaughter anything.

Admitedly, Psychic moves aren't Super Effective against Steel Type attacks, but Samus' Organic Suit has been damaged by not necessarally straight up regular forces of energy (Chozo Ghosts are the best example). Not to mention that Mewtwo is capable of using more than just pure Psionic Forces to destroy his opponents.

And I completely agree with Bob here. I want to see a list of Pokemon that can take absolutely anything and everything a Mewtwo can throw at them, even if it's just Powered up Psychics with possible Item boosts. I'll be surprised to see this list.

And while specific Pokemon Natures can raise Pokemon's defenses, it doesn't let them be immortal against everything. I want to see Blissey stand up to Powered Up Aura Spheres from Mewtwo. Oh wait, even Blissey, the game's most powerful Special Defense Pokemon, can still be beaten by Mewtwo's attacks.

And no, very few times has Samus ever come back after a total system failure (That's when you get to see the Game Over Screen!).

PS:Corey, don't hate people. Hate is a double edge sword. Just the sheer act of hating someone else can easily hurt you in the process.
:flame:

 

[Corigames]

To Coreygames, I agree with your note on Psychic not shattering Samus' skull. But it can easilly break eveyrhing else, from a Pokemon as strong as mewtwo.

Yet, in what situation in pokemon did Mewtwo easily break anything?

Samus' suit does indeed give her life, but it isn't immortality, or else the games wouldn't be playable.

Never claimed that.

She'd never be killable, and could just walk around blowing everything up.

Uh... that's exactly what you do though...

he can only take so much before her life support fails (as seen in the games), and Mewtwo is quite a bit too much for most Pokemon to take.

Are you familiar with Ridley? He is a rather large space dragon. If you have ever seen a dragon, heard of a dragon, or read stories about dragons, you could definitely make the call that dragons would be quite a bit too much for most pokemon. However, time after time, Samus obliterates him to the point that his body has to be rebuilt to just survive. Once again, he is a DRAGON. He isn't a pokemon with the dragon type. He doesn't have dragon type moves. He just is a dragon. A space dragon. Mewtwo is a genetically engineered telepathic kitty.

Also, in the Pokemon games, Psychic Pokemon are capable of easily manipulating their enemy's every move and action. If Mewtwo can do it to around 500 creatures, as well as humans, he can do it to Samus as well.

Oh I'm sorry. See, I didn't know in the games that you could just pick Mewtwo and say, "Mewtwo, tell that other trainer to quit so that we win." And then he does it. Wow, I bet those games are boring. You talk about Samus not dieing yet say that Mewtwo makes those games impossible to lose at all! Now, while I completely trust on this being a solid gameplay maneuver, I am going to have to ask you to site in which game you were able to perform this feat before fully agreeing.

And I'd like to see what Pokemon you are talking about. Out of the near 500 Pokemon in existance, I'm willing to bet that Mewtwo can easily slaughter atleast 300 of them alone.

I guess whichever 200 you are talking about? :/ I mean, if that's the case, then you are only talking about a %60 success rate. Samus has a lot of life, a lot of experience, a lot of power, speed, and cunning and I'm willing to bet that she's better than most, if not all, of the top %40 of pokemon. Now, given that I don't really know/care about the last few pokemon games and I'm sure they've created some really awesome (IE broken) things, but we are talking about the games. In the games Mewtwo didn't mind crush people. Mewtwo didn't destroy armies. He didn't bring storms. He doesn't turn the player to stone. Those are all things from a movie/anime. If those were canon, then we would just say **** this whole thing and Falcon wins. Guess what we aren't doing...

If the hit is Super Effective, there's pretty much a 0% chance of Mewtwo's target surviving.

Except for when they don't? Why doesn't everyone just get 6 Mewtwo's and win every single match ever? Oh yeah, because of strengths and weaknesses. I doubt that Nintendo made a pokemon with absolutely no weaknesses and uber ****-off power. That's not really like them; not intentionally. So... I don't think a super effective attack is a guaranteed victory unless the move is like fissure that says "instant KO on hit." How about instead, you say how much damage it does and then we'll see just how great it is : )

Please get the statistics to prove me wrong, or atleast list the Pokemon you are talking about that should be able to survive a Super Effective Mewtwo Psychic under any condition.

Um... I don't play pokemon. At least, I haven't since yellow. Like I said, I asked a friend about it and he said, "No." You know why I believe him? I'll clue you in... BALANCE! Why would you put a pokemon into a game that everyone can easily catch with a masterball and make it the single most powerful entity in the entire game's universe? Then, expect people to fight and trade and not only use that character? And guess what, they don't. People make teams that have varying strengths through variety of types. If there was one **** pokemon, that would ruin everything. And, from the sounds of it, everything is fine.

People shouldn't stereotype animals being stupid just because they are animals.

Yes we should. That's why they are animals and we consider ourselves not animals. We are beings so far beyond them that we are on a completely different mental plane. Animals, compared to humans, are very stupid. Some animals can be smarter than others, but that doesn't make them smart. Just because room temperature is hotter than ice does not make it hot.

And again, her Suit's Life Support has failed in the past, one most noted feature was during the X Parasite insident, as well as being attacked by Dark Samus.

Because that's not totally because of plot. I mean, she scours the universe for who knows how many years and then she suddenly encounters one new type of enemy that causes her to lose her suit, ship, and almost her life and is only saved through the plot of the previous game? Yeah, she lost it to plot more than she did to the X-parasite itself You can also look at the intros to Prime 1 and 2. They make little consistency. Prime 1 she gets hit by an explosion and is banged against a wall. This causes her to lose all of her items. Really? I would hope that lava, spikes, poison, radiation, being hacked, dark ooze, etc. would be more damaging than slamming into a wall yet those things don't force her to lose her stuff.

Then in Prime 2 she juse gets jumped by some Ing and they literally rip her upgrades off. That makes just as little sense considering such things never happened before and no Ing after that attempts to do it again. It's part of the plot to lose your equipment. It does its purpose though questionable it may be. So, what does being attacked by game mechanics used to "restart" her have to do with Mewtwo? Does he make X-parasites? Does he know what phazon is? I doubt it. So I would hardly say it is a valid point unless he can like... make Ditto turn into an X-parasite. I mean, the little pink blob essentially just has to change color to yellow and he's half-way there >_<

Mewtwo has actually been biologically advanced to have Super Skin that can Resist Powerful Weapons in any situation.

wut

Not to mention that Mewtwo is capable of using more than just pure Psionic Forces to destroy his opponents.

I actually want to see what 4 moves you guys would give him that would make him so horribly ****. I guess it's obvious psychic is up there, but what else?

Oh wait, even Blissey, the game's most powerful Special Defense Pokemon, can still be beaten by Mewtwo's attacks.

Now you are just being facetious. You are still in the mindset that Samus is on a lesser scale than pokemon. Pokemon are great in teams. Samus is great alone. There is a reason why you hardly ever lose pokemon to wild encounters, because they:
A1) Don't have a trainer to support them
A2) Samus has reserve tanks and tons of items to help her in situations that call for it (such as but not limited to the morphball, screw attack, and speed booster)
B1) Can't be revived
B2) If Samus hits 0 life and has ANY life saved in the reserve tanks, it negates the rest of the damage she would take and restores her life to the stored amount
C1) Can be captured
C2) Samus cannot
D1) Don't have the help of other pokemon
D2) Samus is alone too

And no, very few times has Samus ever come back after a total system failure (That's when you get to see the Game Over Screen!)

And when does Mewtwo come back after you beat him (If you don't catch him). Also never. You can say the exact same thing about every other videogame ever, I fail to see what your point was here other than to say she's not invincible, which, once again, I never claimed she was.

PS:Corey, don't hate people. Hate is a double edge sword. Just the sheer act of hating someone else can easily hurt you in the process.

Nah, I'm pretty sure I'll hate whomever, however, and whenever I want. Hopefully, if I hate someone hard enough, they will either die, quit, give up, or give in. In the court of Corey, you are hated until proven worthy.

/wall-o-text

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

:flame:
Very nice wall of text. I'll get back to you on that in a little bit.

Edit:Here is my responce.

Have you ever played Pokemon Red and Blue, where Mewtwo was at the height of his power, requiring a carefully calculated squad of fighters or suicide fighter to defeat? Yeah, during that generation, there was nothing that could take him on 1v1. Pokemon Stadium's Mewtwo was a pretty good testimate of this. In the Anime, Gary Oak tried to double Team it with a Nidoking and Arcanine, and still lost, despite how good those Pokemon are. Then, Mewtwo completely irradicates Giovanni's base and flies away without a single problem, despite the different technologies they used to try to keep it's psychic powers in check and prevent it from leaving.

You harped on her Life Support allowing her to be able to live through anything, and her suit being able to block anything. Play any of the games, and you'll see that this isn't true. Heck, in real life, Life Support doesn't make a person immortal. Again, put a Vegetable on Lifesupport, and crush it with Psionic Energy like you're breaking an Egg in your hand. It's not going to live.

You missed the main part of my message. Samus does walk around blowing specific enemies up, but she is indeed killable, and isn't capable of iradicating all matter around her with no problem.

About Dragons, there is a Pokemon Type called "Dragon". Dragonite, Kingdra, Flygon, Salamance, Latios, Latias, Rayquaza, Garchomp, Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina. They are the best of the dragons, most of them being amoung the greatest Pokemon in the game. And they all have to stop and check themselves when Mewtwo appears, less they get their Dragon butts handed to them. There are several Pokemon that can slaughter Dragons too. Mewtwo is noteworthy just because he is so frigging strong.

And Ridley may not be just a standard Dragon. As you've said it yourself though, he's still capable of being slaughtered with enough force. He did need to be given mechanical enhancements, but he's also capable of reviving himself by devowering the cells of other life forms around him. He's very formidable. I know. I know. Mewtwo is capable of taking on Dragon Gods that control Time, Space, the Weather, Alternate Dimensions, the Oceans, the Earth, and just plain Dragons in general. And he's not the only Pokemon that can. You haven't played since the first generation, so you said, which is probably why you underestimate the strength of these Pokemon so much. Mewtwo isn't the Pokemon Garfield. If anything, he's a Telepathic version of Chuck Norris, in Cat Form.

Did I say Mewtwo could Mind Control his enemy (although I've checked several different references, and the ability to attack an enemy's mind dirrectly is not out of the range of his psionic powers) and make them surrender to him instantly? Granted, after a Mewtwo decimates half of your team by himself without breaking a sweat, you'll probably end up giving up yourself.

Dude, please notice where I said "ATLEAST", as in "MINIMAL", or "LOWEST POSSIBLE AMOUNT OF SURVIVORS". And dude, there are a heck of a lot of Pokemon that could give Samus a hard fought battle. One of our own Brawlers, Lucario is a noteworthy character who could easily go toe to toe with Samus. There are plenty that could fight with Samus easily. Also please clarify ("Now, given that I don't really know/care about the last few pokemon games and I'm sure they've created some really awesome (IE broken) things, but we are talking about the Games") for me. You don't know or care about the games, despite that being what we are talking about. I find that weird. I've said it to Bobson, of course Nintendo wouldn't let Mewtwo blow Pokemon's brains up, despite him being able to. The games would not be rated E if he could. He does indeed slaughter armies of Pokemon. He is indeed capable of creating planet destroying storms. And the petrification thing was probably just a freak incident between the clashing of Mewtwo and Mew's powers. While you want to say that this is bull because of the fact that much of it is from the Anime and Manga, most things are considered canon BECAUSE of it's appearance in the Anime and Manga. Heck, we wouldn't have known who Samus' family were and how she met the Chozo, not to mention how Ridley Orphaned her on that colony if it wasn't for her Manga.

The first line of your next thought ("Except for when they don't?") confuses me. Please clarify this.And people don't get 6 Mewtwos and slaughter everyone because the game would be even harder to balance than it is, not to mention there is a clause about not being able to use multiples of the same species (I believe it is called the Mono-Pokemon Clause, or something like that). And in the first generation, where he was at the height of his power, he was intentionally created to be the absolute greatest and most powerful Pokemon ever, with rigged power and no weaknesses. Nintendo can claim to somewhat have fixed this now with more Ghost, Dark and Bug moves to try and hurt him, as well as other Pokemon just as mighty and powerful as he is, so he's not completely at the top, but Mewtwo is up there, only really passed by the God of all Pokemon, Arceus. If you really want me to, I will test every single Compeditive Pokemon in the game (I'm not testing Bulbasaur and Ivysaur if Mewtwo owns Venusaur, which he does) against anything Mewtwo has in his gigantic arsenal, and I will present the statistics of Mewtwo against each Standard Set that the Pokemon uses. I have no problem with this. I thought, since you're so sure how Mewtwo doesn't seem to be good enough to beat things that it is even Super Effective against that you would actually have some examples. People usually have things to back them up when they talk. It's called Evidence.

If you haven't played since Yellow, then you REALLY don't know what is going on, and probably shouldn't try to make judgements based on a lack of experience. And yes, the first couple of Generations where there was close to jack **** you could do to stop a Mewtwo other than planning your entire team around fighting it or packing one yourself was indeed unfair. Mewtwo did completely rule the games for quite a while. Then we had other Pokemon come in that could fight with him, so he wasn't quite so bad. But he and his gang of Legendaries were, are, and will be, too good for most other Pokemon to face. There are Tiers in Pokemon. Creatures like ... Butterfree and Pikachu are at the very bottom of the tier, for being suckish. They are what is called "NU" Pokemon. Pokemon like Blastoice and Clefable, for being good but not the best, are "UU" Pokemon. They are occasionally used in compeditive gaming, but not as much. Pokemon like Gyarados and Alakazam, for being really good Pokemon, are called "OU". They are Popular because they are actually really good. Pokemon like Mewtwo and Mew, for being too frigging good for others to handle, are "Uber" Pokemon. And as such, are banned from fighting in regular matches. On the Computer, they have their own battling groups, where such Legendary Pokemon are allowed to run free and do what they want. But they are too good for most of the others to face, and as such, are banned Pokemon. There is indeed a heck of a lot of unbalance in the game. You've been gone from the battling scene for so long, you don't even know.

Now you're just being funny. You really think that Humans are above animals? That these sinful, greedy, spinless, cowardly, putrid little flesh puppets are above the animal kingdom? These "evolved" monkeys that few them so far above all other life forms? Hahahahaha, funny. Very funny.

Dude, the X Parasites would have killed Samus easily. She lost her Suit through the Federation Scientists removing it from her. She lost her ship because she nearly died and crashed it while the Parasites were swarming her. In Prime 1, her Powersuit short circited due to the intense amount of electricity. Samus is vunerable to it indeed. It is capable of shutting her armor down, plot device or not. And who mentioned anything about the Ing? I said that her Life Support has failed and she has almost been killed. Dark Samus but her into a comma for quite a while, and would have easily killed Samus if she hasn't been so overconfident (something that Dark Samus and Ridley shared in common). I didn't say anything about Samus' armor reseting to it's basic components. I said that the Life Support (that in the last few posts you ranted about making her still alive "put a vegetable on Life Support and it's still alive, despite what ever happens to it") is indeed capable of failing. I don't think Mewtwo needs to strip away Samus' armor to beat her in battle. He has a miriad of options to attack her with. He doesn't have to power her down. He simply takes her out.

And yes, Mewtwo was created to be the ultimate Pokemon, without par. You said that you played atleast Pokemon Yellow. You should know this much. It was in that generation of games! Dang dude, get with the times, or atleast try to remember the one source that you seem to use for Mewtwo's Powers.

And People can use a heck of a lot of different moves to make Mewtwo strong. He has a boat load of options (less than Mew, but still quite a few). I personally like my Mewtwo using Psychic, Ice Beam, Aura Sphere, and Calm Mind. But that's just me. Mewtwo can pretty much do whatever the heck he wants, from Flamethrower to Focus Punch to Stone Edge to Blizzard to Thunder to Shadow Ball to Solarbeam... need I go on?

And dude, Pokemon of Mewtwo's calibur aren't just great in teams. They can slaughter other teams lacking other Uber level Pokemon. They can go through hoards of Pokemon alone too. But when it comes to fighting groups of Pokemon that rival their strength, they will require allies too. And dude, don't compare Wild Pokemon, even the weak Wild Mewtwo, to real compeditive Full Power True-to-his-Game Mewtwo. That's like comparing Sand to Diamonds.
A1) In compeditive battling, where you're fighting enemies with maximum powers, you don't have any support, relying full on your own Pokemon's strength.
A2)Again, you haven't played in forever, but Mewtwo has lots of tricks he can use to support him when he needs it, such as Calm Mind, Barrier, Agility, Trick, Amnesia, Psych Up, Reflect, Lightscreen, Thunderwave... need I go on (not to mention all of the different Items Mewtwo can equip himself with to become even more Powerful).
B1)Samus isn't magically brought back to life on the spot either.
B2)If Samus is at the last leg of her current energy tank and has another tank, the damage effects the other energy tank... That's why when an enemy does 50 damage to her and she has 30 Energy on her current tank, she gets droped down to 80 on the next Energy Tank. It doesn't make her immortal.
C1)Full Power Mewtwo couldn't be simply captured in the show or anime either, not to mention in compeditive gaming.
C2)Only rapists want to catch Samus. Most people either fight by her side or battle her, not capture.
D1)Again, unless outnumbered, Mewtwo is capable of fighting against pretty much anyone he wants 1v1 easily.
D2)Samus alone doesn't help her much.

You've talked so many times about her Suit making her resist moves and her Life Support never failing, which seems to put on this appearance of her being immortal. This is not true, and yes, this applies to Mewtwo as well. Just trying to keep this conversation back down to Earth (although we're talking about Genetic Super Soldiers and Alien Bounty Hunters).

And Corey, I hope you don't have high blood pressure or smoke. Because all the Hatred, combined with those kinds of things, easily cuts your life span. My Granpa was like that, and my Dad and I used to be like that. Also, if someone easily gives up, quits, or gives into someone simply because of Hatred, they shouldn't have steped up at all. And I want to know how you kill someone simply by hating enough. If you can, go hate the Terrorists enough to make them die. That would be cool.

I will say this. After looking back at the histories of both Samus and Mewtwo, I can say that I was wrong about one thing. I forgot quite a bit of Samus' history for a while. I feel that the points I've been making were as honest and true as could be, atleast from my standpoint, but they are indeed biased simply because I've forgotten how powerful Samus is. Looking back at everything she has been through and everything she has done, I can confidently say that a fight between Mewtwo and Samus would be, for the most part, an Epic and Even fight. It'd be something out of Dragon Ball Z. And I do see the two of them being up at the top of a Tierlist made from the character's true strengths, rivaled only by the game's true best Character, should he be given the strength he merrits due to his abilities, simply out of knowledge from Physics.

How do you like my Wall of Text?
:flame:

 

[kr3wman]

Back up the claim that his spirit was even in another realm in Oracle of Ages and Seasons, and that he simply lacked a body. If this was so, Ganon wouldn't hae been REVIVED simply as a mindless monster when Twinrova failed to sacrifce Zelda to BRING HIM BACK TO LIFE and had to use their own lives to RESURRECT him.

And, just out of personal curiosity, not having anything to do with this conversation, who all has been brought back to life after being turned to stone? Harry Potter's friends (through indirrect petrification) and Piccolo are the only 2 that honestly come to mind.

But the Triforce of Power does leave Ganondorf before that battle, or else the King of Hyrule wouldn't have been able to use it to drown Hyrule. The Triforce of Power was the only thing that gives Ganondof the ability to have a chance at reviving after he is killed. Without it, he is easily killable by these peoples. The same thing happens in Twilight Princess, although since he's been REVIVED once, he might come back after that. The triforce wasn't destroyed, no, but Ganondof no longer possessed it at the end of either game's timelines. He's definitely going to need someone's help being BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE AGAIN if he wants to pester Link another time, less Vaati become the new Zelda Villain.

I never said that Evil wouldn't exist again. Heck, Ganondorf could indeed come back and cause troubles. I'm saying, and so would any other rational person, that Ganondorf got killed.

Edit:Adventures of Link, where the remains of Ganon's army wanted to use Link's blood to REVIVE Ganon, although they failed at trying to do so. Another scenario where GANON DIED.

Edit Edit:If Captain Falcon got in his Blue Falcon, bashed into Ganondorf's chest with his Car, and flew Ganondorf's butt into a Black Hole or the Run, Ganondorf would not be coming back. And about the time lines, in the Adult Series, the Toon Link Games (most famous due to Wind Waker) is the last game in the series. This is indeed true. I don't know this. I simply looked it up. I always thought that it was outright the last game. But it's one part of a divergent time line, is all.
:flame:

So if Ganon doesn't have his triforce of power, he can die. Of course. But we're not talking about How Snake could try to beat Samus in hand to hand combat even in her suit or Mario from Donkey Kong where his only weapons was a hammer vs Fox with a Rocket launcher are we.

...

Turning into stone...

Final Fantasy (And other Fantasy games), Chronicles of Narnia, The Oz series, The Man of Stone and several other popular fairy tales and diverse fantasy novels that includes elements of turning into stone.

Yeah.

 

[Supersun]

She's not attacking a brain in a jar

Isn't the objective of most of her games to kill a brain in a jar?

The opposite is true as well: there's no canon material or anything in the Pokemon games that would suggest that metal is capable of stopping psychic attacks.

You mean besides the fact that Psychic is 1/2ed against Steel?

:flame:
Have you ever played Pokemon Red and Blue, where Mewtwo was at the height of his power, requiring a carefully calculated squad of fighters or suicide fighter to defeat? Yeah, during that generation, there was nothing that could take him on 1v1. Pokemon Stadium's Mewtwo was a pretty good testimate of this.

BULL**** I had something that OBLITERATED Mewtwo 1v1 in the R/B era. Mind you this wasn't on a super competitive level where they messed with DV values and crap like that but neither did I (didn't know about it at that time). This ungodly slayer of Mewtwo's name was Parasect and the only way I could see Mewtwo beating my Paracest was if he had a strong fire move on him...which many didn't. The strategy was very simple. Send him in after Mewtwo scored a KO on something (usually my machamp), take a hit from his psychic then use Spore, Leech Life back to full HP and then start slashing until he wakes up then repeat the process. That Parasect either KOed the Mewtwo or forced the other trainer to send back his Mewtwo.

 

[Da-D-Mon-109]

BULL**** I had something that OBLITERATED Mewtwo 1v1 in the R/B era. Mind you this wasn't on a super competitive level where they messed with DV values and crap like that but neither did I (didn't know about it at that time). This ungodly slayer of Mewtwo's name was Parasect and the only way I could see Mewtwo beating my Paracest was if he had a strong fire move on him...which many didn't. The strategy was very simple. Send him in after Mewtwo scored a KO on something (usually my machamp), take a hit from his psychic then use Spore, Leech Life back to full HP and then start slashing until he wakes up then repeat the process. That Parasect either KOed the Mewtwo or forced the other trainer to send back his Mewtwo.

:flame:
Yeah, when you're fighting a fully Powered Mewtwo, I want to see Parasect survive Mewtwo's Blizzard. Between the chance of you freezing and the move being super effective, I don't Parasect surviving it. And as you have said it yourself, If Mewtwo had any Fire attacks, Parasect is screwed. But I'd need to check, since I can't easily replicate such an experimen from so long ago right now. One thing for sure, if Mewtwo uses Substiute againt Parasect, the strategy is instantly failure-sauce. And Mewtwo could Thunderwave it, crippling it before it cripples Mewtwo. I don't see Parasect being a Mewtwo counter, except for maybe the weak Wild Mewtwo... but again, I'd need to test this to know for sure.

To Krewman, I'll get to you later.
:flame:

 

[kr3wman]

Empty promises.

If you can't accept the fact that Mewtwo isn't invincible/godlike in the games, then I won't continue our argument either, since both demand of you to accept that you are wrong.

 

[bobson]

You mean besides the fact that Psychic is 1/2ed against Steel

Uh... no? Reread my sentence. Mewtwo isn't attacking the steel, he's attacking a target past the steel. There's nothing to indicate that he can't do that.

 

[King D]

Well can't Mewtwo use his psychic abilities to pull apart Samus's power suit? Then Samus is left defenseless. Mewtwo wins hands down.

 

[Supersun]

:flame:
Yeah, when you're fighting a fully Powered Mewtwo, I want to see Parasect survive Mewtwo's Blizzard. Between the chance of you freezing and the move being super effective, I don't Parasect surviving it. And as you have said it yourself, If Mewtwo had any Fire attacks, Parasect is screwed. But I'd need to check, since I can't easily replicate such an experimen from so long ago right now. One thing for sure, if Mewtwo uses Substiute againt Parasect, the strategy is instantly failure-sauce. And Mewtwo could Thunderwave it, crippling it before it cripples Mewtwo. I don't see Parasect being a Mewtwo counter, except for maybe the weak Wild Mewtwo... but again, I'd need to test this to know for sure.

First of all, I wasn't saying that my Parasect was immortal against Mewtwo. I was saying that unless the Mewtwo was built differently (and unorthadoxly) that I had a Pokemon that could beat the Mewtwo 1v1. You are also assuming that the person knew my strategy before hand (though to be fair though if you see a Parasect come out I wonder what's next >.>). The only counter I see on there that might work is substitute but I'm not sure whether that blocks status effects or not. My Parasect could survive a blizzard (unless the 10% chance of freezing happens). The only reason I mentioned fire was a 4x weakness and it being special based.

Here's a video with the mother brain's special attack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mGOFQVhtFs
It's around 2:15

Well can't Mewtwo use his psychic abilities to pull apart Samus's power suit? Then Samus is left defenseless. Mewtwo wins hands down.

Where in the game does mewtwo have a single move that can completely bypass an enemies defense.

Uh... no? Reread my sentence. Mewtwo isn't attacking the steel, he's attacking a target past the steel. There's nothing to indicate that he can't do that.

And you wanted proof that Psychic needs a medium. Isn't the proof in itself that Psychic isn't 100% accurate. If Psychic really didn't need a medium it would never miss.

 

[Uffe]

Once again, Mewtwo isn't attacking the suit. He's attacking the person inside the suit. He's not attacking a metal type Pokemon, he's attacking a moderately athletic human. And unless humans were biologically advanced to have super-brains that can resist ridiculously powerful psychic attacks in the Metroid universe, Samus is going down without much trouble.
Nothing that I know of in the Metroid universe uses psychic attacks the way Mewtwo does.

Really quick, Samus isn't an Earthling. She lives nowhere near planet Earth. So don't go thinking she's some average athletic human being. Also, how can you say he's attacking Samus from inside the suit if you can't even back that up? How sure are you that Mewtwo could get behind her armor?

 

[bobson]

Well, ****, I blew up my own theory. Defend Order, a move where "The user calls out its underlings to make a living shield, raising its Defense and Sp. Def stats," weakens psychic attacks. If a shield made up of physical beings like that could lessen psychokinetic power, a suit could. It would also explain why Pokemon with thick outer coverings can resist psychic attacks as well; if they didn't have to go through the covering, the defense offered by them wouldn't come into effect.

But like any good villain, I have a backup plan. Something D-Mon said.

In Prime 1, her Powersuit short circited due to the intense amount of electricity.

Mewtwo can learn Thunder. I'm pretty sure a thunderbolt would send enough electricity through the suit to short-circuit it.

I haven't followed the Metroids; what happened when the suit short-circuited?

 

[King D]

[/COLOR]

Where in the game does mewtwo have a single move that can completely bypass an enemies defense.

How about disable? Mewtwo can turn off the power suit, or at the very least its cannon.

 

[Shadow13]

Mewtwo would defeat Samus.
http://www.serebii.net/index2.shtml
There you can see all of Mewtwo's attacks. Also, Mewtwo is tied for 2nd for top base stats of all pokemon, so yes, it ***** almost every pokemon if equipped with the right attacks.
It is not specified whether or not it is owned by a trainer, and if it is it is in its cave where Samus would have to go through lots of pokemon to get to it. If it has a trainer then the trainer will heal it. If it is fighting in Samus's home terrain as in where she is in most of her games, then her enemies would attack her, unless she is on her own ship. In which case, missing would be a reallllllllly bad thing for her.
Another FYI, Mewtwo has Recover, which whether it has a trainer or not, makes it harder to KO. Mewtwo also has Calm Mind, which would make its attacks stronger and make it harder to kill over time.
One last thing for the "Why not just use Mewtwo?" question from coreygames. Well you see, Mewtwo is banned from standard play for the very reason that if it was not banned it (and other legendaries with similar stats) would be used so much that they would be some of the only pokemon used.

 

[REL38]

@bobson
Samus wouldn't have been able to use any of her attacks for a few moments if she was short-circuited.

 

[Uffe]

Mewtwo would defeat Samus.
http://www.serebii.net/index2.shtml
There you can see all of Mewtwo's attacks. Also, Mewtwo is tied for 2nd for top base stats of all pokemon, so yes, it ***** almost every pokemon if equipped with the right attacks.
It is not specified whether or not it is owned by a trainer, and if it is it is in its cave where Samus would have to go through lots of pokemon to get to it. If it has a trainer then the trainer will heal it. If it is fighting in Samus's home terrain as in where she is in most of her games, then her enemies would attack her, unless she is on her own ship. In which case, missing would be a reallllllllly bad thing for her.
Another FYI, Mewtwo has Recover, which whether it has a trainer or not, makes it harder to KO. Mewtwo also has Calm Mind, which would make its attacks stronger and make it harder to kill over time.
One last thing for the "Why not just use Mewtwo?" question from coreygames. Well you see, Mewtwo is banned from standard play for the very reason that if it was not banned it (and other legendaries with similar stats) would be used so much that they would be some of the only pokemon used.

Mewtwo is limited with four attacks, Samus is limited with more attacks than that but has her beams which never waste, unlike a Pokemon's. Mewtwo's health or HP is 416 max which is nothing compared to the energy tanks Samus has. She has around 20 - 24 energy tanks which all contain 100 health individually. Your Mewtwo has Recover, but Samus has four reserve tanks that fill up all her health. Recover doesn't refill all of Mewtwo's health. She can take more of a beating than Mewtwo.

And I have no idea how fighting on different planets is relevant to the outcome of this battle. She could be fighting on Earth, what's going to happen? A bunch of Pokemon trainers are going to attempt to capture Mewtwo? Yeah, didn't think so. This is a fight between Samus and Mewtwo.

 

[POKE40]

Let's just settle this matter in googlefight.com



In topic:
I have a question. Is mewtwo only limited to only psychic moves?
If not mewtwo has a lot of other attack options.
He can use thunder wave.
Aura sphere
and other stuff

but I personally think samus > m2
but it would be a verrryyyy close fight

so I cannot say who would win.
The tier list was placed by our debate and imagination.

I don't think there will be a tier list that everyone agrees on.
both are incredibly powerful

 

[Supersun]

It is not specified whether or not it is owned by a trainer, and if it is it is in its cave where Samus would have to go through lots of pokemon to get to it. If it has a trainer then the trainer will heal it. If it is fighting in Samus's home terrain as in where she is in most of her games, then her enemies would attack her, unless she is on her own ship. In which case, missing would be a reallllllllly bad thing for her.

Another FYI, Mewtwo has Recover, which whether it has a trainer or not, makes it harder to KO. Mewtwo also has Calm Mind, which would make its attacks stronger and make it harder to kill over time.
One last thing for the "Why not just use Mewtwo?" question from coreygames. Well you see, Mewtwo is banned from standard play for the very reason that if it was not banned it (and other legendaries with similar stats) would be used so much that they would be some of the only pokemon used.

First off, this is assumed to be a 1v1 fight. You can assume the Mewtwo has been raised by a trainer and an equipped item could probably slide but as soon as you include a trainer spamming potions that not Mewtwo fighting anymore, that's Pokemon Trainer.

Second, when doing these battles it's generally assumed that they are fighting in a location that is neutral to both combatants. It's just Samus and Mewtwo. Not a cave full of pokemon in the way and not the GFP assisting Samus.
----
This really needs to be mentioned but Mewtwo has only 4 moves. Keep in mind that 2 of those moves are pretty much taken up regardless as it would be retarted to replace them. Psychic and Recover. That being said he only has two moves left. One of the moves sure as heck better have a lot of PP usage cause this will be a LONG battle and Psychic and Recover don't have THAT many uses.
---
Also I can't think of a spot where Samus suit short circuits. I know that there are those electric orb guys that interfere with Samus visor but she never loses her defensive capabilities. The only spot where Samus really loses things for the long term is when she lands on a new planet at the beginning of the game XD

 

[Corigames]

"Isn't the objective of most of her games to kill a brain in a jar?"
Actually, that was just two games. Three if you don't count Zero mission and the original as the same title.

And to Da-D-Mon-109

I'm glad you typed out that huge wall as to illustrate exactly what your thoughts are, and I was going to respond with a similarly sized one, but decided against it. I'll simplify it as to not jumble this thread further.

A) I never said she was invincible. I never intended to have anyone think that. What I am saying is that she has a large amount of life, or at least some sort of defensive stat, in comparison to the enemies she normally faces. The has moves and items that do make her invincible (IE screw attack and speed booster/shinespark). Her arsenal is abundant as well as the diversity in options that gives her. If she dies, she's dead. If her suit runs out of power, she might as well be dead. The life support keeps her alive and she keeps the suit full on energy as much as she can.

Due to the simple fact that there is no secondary health system for Metroid, even in Zero mission when she loses the suit, I'm inclined to say that you can't just create an arbitrary life system to suit the condition of a psychic attack. If you could show me a model for a way to do that that makes sense as well as isn't biased towards either character, then I may make an exception. But, we don't see Kirby, Mario, Sonic, etc. getting different life systems from the 6/6, life meter, and rings for those characters respectively.

B) I only brought up the dragon thing because it's relate-able to pokemon. And, as you said yourself, though the dragon types may occasionally lose to Mewtwo, they are still capable of taking him down. Then, if that's true, Ridley being a dragon could be a fair benchmark to say that Samus stands a fair chance against Mewtwo out of the law of relativity purely.

C) When considering the power level of Samus compared to pokemon, I think you need to be reminded of a few things before concluding that some pokemon would have an easy fight with her, and some of the things I'll say here will relate to Mewtwo as well. Samus' power suit has the amazing capability to compile powers. This is seen in Super Metroid, Prime 3, Fusion, and Zero Mission. Through that combination, she is able to stack multiple defenses and offenses together. Her Varia suit allows for defense from extreme heat and cold not to mention acid. The gravity suit lets her move through lava and water freely. Then there's the phazon, light, dark, etc. Then there's all of the beams that stack. It's like doing all types of damage at once. She is a lot stronger than most any one pokemon.

D)Animals are too stupid to even know what greed, envy, thought, or anything else really is, at least not without human influence in the first place! Animals are dumb. That's why they don't train us, that's why they aren't our bosses, that's why they aren't even our equals sharing room on buses and tables at restaurants. Likewise, a pidgey isn't smart. A nidoran isn't a mathamatitian. Mewtwo maybe psychic, but that doesn't mean he's smarter than humans. If a tiger could blow up its enemies minds, we would immediately think it's an intellectual...

E) We are not talking about the anime/manga of anything. Drop it. We are using the games and only the games. Why you might ask? How many of the characters in smash are in games? All of them. How many are in movies or manga? Not really that many. It's not fair to them considering that in a movie or manga things seem to get exaggerated and how many movies ported from games that you know of accurately depict the game's universe?

F) Before I continue with this conversation any further you need to declare some variables for us. First, you and whomever else needs to decide what four moves Mewtwo will use in this fight. I will even grant you foresight of the battle to pick the optimal moves against Samus. Then, using that information, carefully outline exactly how Mewtwo will beat Samus.

G) My health is of no concern to you. I'm not a hateful person, but I do hate. I'm not stupid, but I do stupid things. " Also, if someone easily gives up, quits, or gives into someone simply because of Hatred, they shouldn't have steped up at all." That's the point. If they quit, then I don't have to worry about having to go through the trouble of highlighting why they are whatever I am hating them for. Forfeits are soooo much easier. "And I want to know how you kill someone simply by hating enough." I'm working on it. Chech the news for when I do ; )

By the way, this post took like 20 hours to make because I started on it, went to my first job, came back and continued on it, went to my second job, came back and scrapped it and started again, then played TF2, and then finally finished it now. So, I haven't seen any new posts since like whenever I started, so I may edit this post to reflect posts that occurred between that time...

Edits (called it):
1. As I said in my post, the incidents where Samus loses all of her gear are really inconsistent with the rest of the games. She is attacked multiple times by concussive and electric attacks yet never loses anything, but, for some reason, when she is rocked against a wall she suddenly becomes vulnerable to de-leveling? It makes no sense. Once again, as previously stated, Samus loses to plot more than she does to enemies and environment themselves.

2. So, if we are now in agreement that psychic does hit the suit first, I would be fine with figuring out how much damage it does to a metal (or whatever) pokemon as a fair comparison. Granted, I'll see what the description for that pokemon is to see if it would meet the standards of the stacked defense value she has from multiple suits.

 

[Supersun]

2. So, if we are now in agreement that psychic does hit the suit first, I would be fine with figuring out how much damage it does to a metal (or whatever) pokemon as a fair comparison. Granted, I'll see what the description for that pokemon is to see if it would meet the standards of the stacked defense value she has from multiple suits.

Psychic does half to Steel
Varia Suit reduces damage by half.
Gravity Suit reduces damage by half.

So in essence Psychic does 1/8th the normal damage it normally does.

Varia Suit also protects from extreme heat or extreme cold.
Gravity Suit protects from magma.

Which means she's pretty much immune to Ice and Fire

I would also imagine that Smaus would have an abnormally large defense stat given she's in a metal suit.

We've already mentioned her hax HP.

So your options left are really a Special Attack that isn't Psychic, Fire, or Ice.

This is on top of the fact that Samus can open a can of **** at pretty much any time.
---

Also you forgot that Samus can become invincible while using the PED suits Phazon overdose also

 

[Corigames]

I kinda forget about Hunters and Prime 3 a lot because... I didn't... really like them. My bias can ruin me some times.

 

[Supersun]

Hunters is understandable but Prime 3? That one is probably the 3rd best one of the series imo D:

(also edited my previous post)

 

[Shrimp Rock]

Why is ike bellow Marth? Ike is very fast and strong in his game. Plus he has Aether which *****. He also has nihil which cancels other peoples skills.

 

[Corigames]

Hunters is understandable but Prime 3? That one is probably the 3rd best one of the series imo D:

(also edited my previous post)

Because Nintendo is trying to make Metroid a shooter instead of an adventure game. The other primes were fine, but this one had less puzzels and backtracking and more SHOOT EVERYTHING I"N FRONT OF YOU NOW. Also, all the boss fights took place in a copy/pasted room that was just lazy compared to the level design found throughout the rest of the game. Also, by saying it's the third best in the series you would have to say that one of these three: Super Metroid, Zero Mission, Prime 1: would be below it.

Plus, I'm not a huge fan of this going-to-multiple-planets thing they seem to be jerking off to. I'd rather have a single continuous planet. It's sort-of the same reason I don't like Castlevania Order of eclesia. But that's more of a peeve than a legitimate negative.

 

[Shadow13]

Mewtwo could have PP ups or other stat enhancers if it was owned by a trainer.
For the animals are too dumb thing, here is a link for the pokedex entry for Alakazm.
http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-rs/065.shtml
Yeah, some pokemon, mainly the Psychic type, are meant to be smarter than humans.
For whether or not Mewtwo can get certain items without it being PT instead fo Mewtwo, well that is legitimate, but for hold items some could help Mewtwo a lot, and that would only have the PT give it the item, so not like healing him a lot. If Mewtwo had Leftovers or Expert Belt that would be very helpful.
Edit: I just saw what POKE40 said, and if Mewtwo had Thunder Wave, that can only be blocked by substitute (or it could miss), but my point is if the suit doesn't get Samus out of Paralysis, well, then she would be screwed.

 

[Corigames]

For the animals are too dumb thing, here is a link for the pokedex entry for Alakazm. Yeah, some pokemon, mainly the Psychic type, are meant to be smarter than humans.

Awesome, so a hand-full of fictional animals can be smarter than humans even though they are still owned, trained, and captured by humans. When regular earthly beasts are capable of a 5k IQ, then I'm sure humans will either be extinct or so far beyond that it doesn't matter.

if Mewtwo had Thunder Wave... my point is if the suit doesn't get Samus out of Paralysis, well, then she would be screwed.

(Pokedex) Thunder Wave: A weak jolt of electricity that paralyzes the foe.
I don't think a "weak jolt" is going to screw a futuristic suit of armor as compared to other unarmored enemies.

 

[Supersun]

Even if Thunder Wave did work doesn't paralyze only have a 25% chance of activating? Are you sure you want to waste one of your two moves on that?

 

[bobson]

Psychic does half to Steel
Varia Suit reduces damage by half.
Gravity Suit reduces damage by half.

So in essence Psychic does 1/8th the normal damage it normally does.

Varia Suit also protects from extreme heat or extreme cold.
Gravity Suit protects from magma.

Which means she's pretty much immune to Ice and Fire

I would also imagine that Smaus would have an abnormally large defense stat given she's in a metal suit.

We've already mentioned her hax HP.

So your options left are really a Special Attack that isn't Psychic, Fire, or Ice.

This is on top of the fact that Samus can open a can of **** at pretty much any time.

Ground type moves do double damage to steel, and Mewtwo can learn Earthquake, the most powerful ground move (with the exception of Magnitude if you're lucky). 8x damage sounds pretty sweet to me.

I'm not so sure about Samus having a real big defense stat; a 412 pound bell made of pure steel has a maximum def stat of 364, and Wikitroid has Samus listed at 198 pounds. Let's say the suit weighs 80 pounds on its own, which that takes her to 278. Her comparative def stat, then, would be about 243 (and this is assuming that her own body is made out of steel, too).

Earthquake, then, would do about 304 damage to her each use. Allowing her the energy tanks (which give her WAY more HP than any Pokemon) and assuming they automatically fill her up when she's low, she's dead in eight rounds. I have no idea how to calculate how much damage she could do to Mewtwo; can you Metroiders give me some relevant data?

Other options for Mewtwo would be Focus Blast and Drain Punch, both fighting type moves (2x to steel, so 8x stacked). Drain Punch restores the users' HP by 50% of the damage it inflicts, and it would do around 183 damage and heal Mewtwo by 92 each use. Focus Blast is a special type, so it'd work off of special defense. On average, steel types have a little more than half the special defense they do regular defense, so Samus' would end up around 143. Focus Blast, then, would do a cool 868 damage and she'd be gone in three rounds. He's also got Aura Sphere, which is basically a weaker version of Focus Blast except guaranteed to hit.

This is all calculated assuming Mewtwo is naturally level 100 with no stat enhancements or held items (and he would definitely have those unless the trainer is an idiot). If he scored a critical hit with Focus Blast while wearing Choice Specs, it would be a OHKO.


I think this is a bit more of a fair fight than either side expected.
I also discovered while looking up info for Samus that loli Samus is cuuuuuute.


Switching topics, why the hell is Pokemon Trainer lower than Mewtwo?

 

[Corigames]

"why the hell is Pokemon Trainer lower than Mewtwo?"
Because people can be dumb...

"Ground type moves do double damage to steel... 8x damage sounds pretty sweet to me"
http://www.serebii.net/games/type.shtml
Firstly... I don't get how you are getting 8x. As you said, steal takes double from ground, but that's 2x not 8 :/ Did I miss something?

Secondly, Earthquake: A powerful quake, but has no effect on flying foes.
So Samus merely has to jump in the air to avoid the attack. Simple to do considering the space jump allows for infinite air-time.

Also, how are you calculating a def stat based off of weight? I mean, the pokedex says that M2 ways 269 lbs. and his def stat is base 90. So Samus' would be higher... so what exactly did you prove by saying that?

In Metroid, every time you stack a new beam you get 2x more damage. When you stack a new suit you get 2x more defense (this is at least true in super Metroid). So, the power beam does base 1. The charge shot adds 2x even when not charged (5x when full). The spazer/wide beam adds 2x more. The ice beam adds 2x more and the ability to freeze an enemy for a short period of time (frozen enemies take extra damage from missiles). The wave beam gives 2x and the shot travels through inorganic material. The plasma beam gives 2x and travels through organic material. So in all you have 1(base) x 2(charge) x 2(spazer/wide) x 2(ice) x 2(wave) x 2 (plasma) = 32x damage. If she were to charge the shot it would instead do 160x damage. This is also only considering the damage of stacking equipment from Super Metroid alone. Considering the idea that Mewtwo has every move available to him from every pokemon game, it wouldn't be far-fetched to say Samus has the vast supply of power-ups found throughout her persistent universe available. And, after looking at Mewtwo's damage charts, it seems he takes double damage naturally from dark attacks, and it just so happens that MP2 provides her with a dark beam with a missile combo that creates a high damage darkness black hole.

So... I'm still going to say Samus has this.

 

[justaway12]

Didn't WhatIsRaizen? say he was going to update the op?

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Didn't WhatIsRaizen? say he was going to update the op?

Oh sorry, I'll start working on that now.

 

[justaway12]

Oh sorry, I'll start working on that now.

Sorry , I haven't seen you for a while, so I thought you were inactive. Forgive me for jumping to assumptions please.

 

[Supersun]

Ground type moves do double damage to steel, and Mewtwo can learn Earthquake, the most powerful ground move (with the exception of Magnitude if you're lucky). 8x damage sounds pretty sweet to me.

I see what you are trying to do but the bonus from the Varia suit and the Gravity suit wouldn't get affected by the damage modifiers. The Varia suit and Gravity suit would more be like gaining the equivalent Def and Sp. to half damage. That's like saying if Mewtwo uses barrier and then gets hit by a move he is weak to he takes 4x normal damage (not sure how much def is needed to half damage or how the formulas work in Pokemon). Earthquake wouldn't really work though as Samus can stay above ground indefinitely.

I'm not so sure about Samus having a real big defense stat; a 412 pound bell made of pure steel has a maximum def stat of 364, and Wikitroid has Samus listed at 198 pounds. Let's say the suit weighs 80 pounds on its own, which that takes her to 278. Her comparative def stat, then, would be about 243 (and this is assuming that her own body is made out of steel, too).

Kinda doesn't work considering the highest defense pokemon is a worm in a rock (shuckles) and that only weight 45 lbs. The best I cam think of is Magnezone being Steel/Electric which is what Samus would likely be which has a def of 361 and a SP of 306.

Earthquake, then, would do about 304 damage to her each use. Allowing her the energy tanks (which give her WAY more HP than any Pokemon) and assuming they automatically fill her up when she's low, she's dead in eight rounds. I have no idea how to calculate how much damage she could do to Mewtwo; can you Metroiders give me some relevant data?

Samus would have about 2,400 HP iirc and the best way to figure out Samus damage would be to recall how much the SA-X did to Samus the do the math of how much base damage that would be. Though to be honest is Samus had the Hyper Beam Mewtwo would be dead in 1-2 hits as that thing is WAY overpowered

Looking at this Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZrYaj6Em8c Ice Beam does 200 damage (uncharged) and Missiles do 100 damage. Not sure what Armor upgrades she had at that point but I would guess none if she only had 4 tanks.

This is all calculated assuming Mewtwo is naturally level 100 with no stat enhancements or held items (and he would definitely have those unless the trainer is an idiot). If he scored a critical hit with Focus Blast while wearing Choice Specs, it would be a OHKO.

Focus Blast? Can't find it on Serebii, give me a link.

I also discovered while looking up info for Samus that loli Samus is cuuuuuute.

Creepy...

Switching topics, why the hell is Pokemon Trainer lower than Mewtwo?

I think they were limiting PT to Starter Pokemon, not sure.

In the end not much of this matters as when it comes down to the fight. Whenever Samus is about to be attacked with something that does over 100 damage she can lose 100 HP to become invincible for about a minute. She can also just screw attack when she is about to be hit and not get damaged. Also, Mewtwo vs Ness would be interesting.

 

[Uffe]

Could we all stop assuming that Samus is a steel type?

 

[Corigames]

What else would she be in the pokemon world? It seems to be the only good comparison.

 

[bobson]

I had a big reply typed out, but this laptop has a "**** up everything you were doing by accidentally hitting this" key which erased it, and I've lost all motivation to retype it.

So, my ending statement is I still don't see how we can reconcile differences between the two games without one side being arbitrarily overpowered for no real reason. And also <3 loli Samus.