Smash Bros. Canon Tournament! (Mario Vs. ????) - 06/14/10

[PowerBomb]

My head is going to explode because Mewtwo arguments will it :O

Auto-use items fail when Embargo is in affect...

EDIT: Look, unless you want to use the RBY Mewtwo, you can't use an old gen Stadium game to prove a new-gen Mewtwo. Actually, I don't know. Also, you can't ignore PMD2 where Mewtwo is still hit by Earthquake and doesn't magically fall down from the ceiling like Groudon and other legends in the PMD series.

Don't keep bringing up 'OMG FLOAT'. If Mewtwo is hit by Earthquake in all games, he's hit by an Earthquake here. Someone find me a photo of that.

 

[Samochan]

My head is going to explode because Mewtwo arguments will it :O

Auto-use items fail when Embargo is in affect...

EDIT: Look, unless you want to use the RBY Mewtwo, you can't use an old gen Stadium game to prove a new-gen Mewtwo. Actually, I don't know. Also, you can't ignore PMD2 where Mewtwo is still hit by Earthquake and doesn't magically fall down from the ceiling like Groudon and other legends in the PMD series.

Don't keep bringing up 'OMG FLOAT'. If Mewtwo is hit by Earthquake in all games, he's hit by an Earthquake here. Someone find me a photo of that.

Self-destruct is just for the kicks.

But yea, I assume a grounded opponent would get hit by earthquake, you don't exacly see mewtwo floathing around in the ceiling ingame do you? >_> EQ hits magneton too while he most certainly floats around. If you apply gravity, pokemon get hit whether or not they have the ability to leviate or fly cause they just got uh, grounded lol. So mewtwo lacking the ability of levitate ingame (where most of the legendaries have pressure abilities anyway) is no proof of his inability to float if he so wishes. Mewtwo is just depicted to stand most of the time, which makes sense if he wants to conserve his energy so he can unleash his full potential in battles. He does have legs, why not use em instead of floathing all the time? Pokemon such a Bronzong that also float, can even have 2 types of abilities, one of which is levitate and other is heatproof. I doubt Bronzong would lose it's only method of movement due to game mechanics lol.

Old artwork ingame is as much canon as others, Stadium even belongs to the main series. On PMD1, mewtwo falls from the ceiling via levitation actually . On PMD2, you just encounter him on a room. >_> He also moves in those games by levitating around.

In any case, whether or not Mewtwo is able to levitate doesn't affect the outcome of this current match. =)

 

[REL38]

Anyway, found a possible winning attack for Mewtwo.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Confusion_(move)

"Confusion" may not be an entirely correct name, as in the case of the anime, Confusion often causes its target to float in midair, which may not make sense to those unaware of the attack's original Japanese name of Mindpower.

Hell, psychic is called psychokinesis in Japan:

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Psychic_(move)


Is Link inmune to psychokinesis?

Psychic is shown to act as a force drawn from the user's mind and translated into a "strong force". Nothing suggests it is directed directly to the foe's mind, but rather as a force similar to wind, only much stronger.

We aren't using Anime as an actual source so confusion doesn't juggle em' in the air.

Regardless, I don't see how Link can beat an enemy that's apparently faster than the speed of sound.


@Samochan

Unless Mewtwo is flying around, he can only "hover" above floor/water.

 

[PowerBomb]

Samochan, go find that video from Pokemon Stadium 1 of facing Mewtwo.

Spoiler

who still shouldn't get TMs, but I'm sick of debating that

EDIT: Wait, are we FOLLOWING game mechanics to the extreme or what?

 

[missingnomaster]

In regards to Mewtwo floating: Anyone else remember Ruby/Sapphire? Wasn't it awesome when Kyogre and Groudon flew out of their caves at high speeds? They should therefore be able to fly at high speeds in this thread when controlled by Red.


...

 

[PowerBomb]

Oh right, where they magically flew out into the ceiling of their caves and just WHEEEEE'd?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm not Samochan but here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JkwekBgzBI

You'll see him flying in the first few seconds, can't miss it. He does a little backflip as well lolz

 

[_clinton]

Well it happens that we not only have Adult Link here, but also Wind waker Link and Young Link, thus we needed to separate the Links instead of merging.

Well whatever...another issue I have is characters like ROB, & Game & Watch being in this...

I mean they don't really have any canon story unless you count SSBB...and completely not care about the others being in this because it doesn't make sense...

Adult Link in OoT is not the same as Young Link. You go freeze and forward in time, be adult for a while, then go back.

I think you missed my point about me bringing this up...my complaint was that if you were going to use AL from OoT only...than you were handicapping this side...

Which would be like putting a level 1 Pidgey vs. a level 100 Mewtwo...Even though a level 100 Pidgeot would lose to M2...at the least it would still get in a hit right?

However, sense we are going OoT AL only...I guess I'm ok with this now ^_^

You mean Blue Bubble curse? I'm certain it affects all of WW Link's items, so you'd be unable to use certain items on certain dungeons on zelda games. It would take time to dig up video reference as players don't wanna get cursed and all... but that's basically what zeldawiki also said.

WW Link isn't the same as OoT AL...however, another thing I should bring up is...keep in mind that even the behavior of foes across these games is a product of game mechs (ever deal with Like Like's in the 1st Zelda? THEY SUCK!)

Again it would be better to look at canon...The Triforce has been proven to protect Link from curses...

For whatever reason, as in King Bublin has a freebie to whack Link's brains out if he so wishes cause apparently triforce didn't deem him a threat on TP lol. But yea, zeldawiki is good source of canon information.

Again my point about a level 1 Pidgey fighting a level 100 M2 stands...

Link's skills at that point in the game where not out yet...

*cough LTTP ending cough*
Essence of Triforce seems kinda aware to me. =) And it certainly prevents ****load of damage done to Link by evil enemies and prevented Link from turning into a Dark creature. So it IS very aware of evil stuff too. Triforce doesn't prevent Link from jumping off the cliff or into lava pit if he so desires, lol, even when those basically instakill you as shown by the blackening screen.

Again the only thing that ending shows is my point...just in a different way

The Triforce doesn't care about Good vs. Evil at all...it only cares about what the user wants...I'm pretty sure Link isn't going to want to be unable to use his items when a being made for fighting is trying to kill him...don't you?

I provided heftyload of proof, where only one was the fact that Embargo is not evil magic or things, many other points had a lot more basis anyway. Read again pls. <_<

I never said that Embargo was evil magic...I just said that the Triforce would protect Link from it...just because it was "something" that Link wouldn't want to deal with

And fairies, by that logic, are sentinent beings and thus considered backup and banned from usage.
Perhaps they should be banned anyway, Navi is very sentinent and the other fairies are not different from her.

This was actually the thing I was getting at when I sort of brought this point up...

Are items that are sentient beings bannable? The point of the rule in the 1st place seems that it was to make it so that things like the entire Mushroom Kingdom doesn't help Mario out in a fight...which makes sense...but how restrictive is the rule really?

Should TP Link lose his Fairy Boomerang item because it has a being in it that only has one paragraph of dialog at the best when you 1st get it?

Doesn't exacly matter, embargo >> arrows, substitute >> stray arrows. But we could argue about the physical aspect of magic arrows, as the magical aspect in your magic arrows is the one hurting you, not the arrow itself (least not too much). On punches you still make contact with a fist, cept it's with different attribute. On magic arrows you are hit with magical energy and then done damage by that magical energy instead of the arrow. If it were physical, it would deal miniscule damage if the arrow were just imbued with little bit magical energy, yet we clearly see this is not the case here. Some enemies can only be destroyed by this magical energy (like phantom ganon), thus proving they're more magical than physical.

Actually sense you brought this up...I think it can be both ways...either one will do more damage...or they will be equal...their are two parts to these weapons you know...one could be breaking away something so that the other can pass through you know...

(also Phantom Ganon's been hurt by arrows before...again like I said...it depends on game mechs)

Farore's wind can only teleport inside Dungeon to the beginning and his Ocarina temple teleportation songs don't exacly help him here. >_>

Both of those things seem like game mechs really to be honest...in a fight I see no real reason why Link couldn't just warp freely...

 

[REL38]

I'm not Samochan but here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JkwekBgzBI

You'll see him flying in the first few seconds, can't miss it. He does a little backflip as well lolz

Game mechanic

"You just unlocked Mewtwo! Now watch as we show him float in a kewl way, toss him into battle in a Pokeball (even though he's supposed to be wild) and give em' moves he never canonically had! Just to make him more difficult and kewl!

How awesome is Pokemanz, giez!
Buy our kewl games, yo!"

/heavy sarcasm

 

[Samochan]

>_> It was more like a gigantic leap. The ground even shakes from it. If they were to just fly, there wouldn't be any strain on the ground. <_<

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I_NxA9Di4Y

Yup, I definitely see him floathing on 0:04 what seems like a cloudy night sky, possibly a moon hiding behind clouds to give that lightning, then some violet colorisation for a nice mewtwo themed pic.

REL38, speed of sound what? >_>

I'd ill advice using game mechanics to extreme, as I've mentioned before they are very limiting and sometimes even bizarre (lol mario getting health from resurfacing in water, ganon's attacks beaten by a bottle and him getting confused over a fishing rod etc.). And contradictions happen, such as Samus grapple beam on different games. And many things cannot be gotten from game mechanics alone but other sources (such as samus being a super athlete).

 

[justaway12]

I still question canon of that game >_>

How did Mewtwo get in a pokeball while he was also the trainer? It even said showed Mewtwo as the trainer AND the Pokemon.

 

[_clinton]

I still question canon of that game >_>

How did Mewtwo get in a pokeball while he was also the trainer? It even said showed Mewtwo as the trainer AND the Pokemon.

He's psychic **** it...he can do whatever he wants

 

[REL38]

>_> It was more like a gigantic leap. The ground even shakes from it. If they were to just fly, there wouldn't be any strain on the ground. <_<

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I_NxA9Di4Y

Yup, I definitely see him floathing on 0:04 what seems like a cloudy night sky, possibly a moon hiding behind clouds to give that lightning, then some violet colorisation for a nice mewtwo themed pic.

REL38, speed of sound what? >_>

I'd ill advice using game mechanics to extreme, as I've mentioned before they are very limiting and sometimes even bizarre (lol mario getting health from resurfacing in water, ganon's attacks beaten by a bottle and him getting confused over a fishing rod etc.). And contradictions happen, such as Samus grapple beam on different games. And many things cannot be gotten from game mechanics alone but other sources (such as samus being a super athlete).

I'm applying Canon which happens to be the Pokedex.

According to the Pokedex, Garchomp flies at the speed of sound. Mewtwo's Speed stat is higher than this.

According to canon, this is true.

According to canon, Link hook/claw shot grabs onto anything, but not a tree. Can this not be tossed off as "game mechanic"?

The same was applied to Samus. Her boost ball is uber fast according to canon, but the games doesn't show it being as fast as it's supposed to be.
She's also moving around very fast when it's not shown in her games.

I don't believe Samus should be the only one to get this luxury.
Mewtwo can go this fast according to canon so guess what?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

@SelfDestruct: That gets me to wonder. Couldn't Pokemon Trainer summon 6 Electrodes (If that's what you call them) and make them all explode in his match against Mario?

I think one would be enough... Either way, he'd still be standing at the end.

 

[justaway12]

No, they can't explode fast enough, Mario uses Ultra jump on PT.

IIRC they don't have Embargo

 

[Diddy Kong]

Clinton, the problem is... this thread is purely based on game mechanics. <_<
So okay, I guess no floating for Mewtwo or at least, not for avoiding moves but it could be used as a counter for say... Bowser going in the Clown Car? Let's say for now that Mewtwo doesn't fly at free will.

I'm now agreeing with Samochan's moveset here. Psychic, Calm Mind, Embargo and Substitute. With Leftovers as held item to replace Recover (which is a big loss though I think). Mewtwo would still outstall Link, and OHKO him when he's got a few Calm Minds up.

Neither will last long against each other without being able to heal. This is where Mewtwo has the advantage with Leftovers. A little something is better than nothing I guess.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

No, they can't explode fast enough, Mario uses Ultra jump on PT.

His Pokemons will still be standing.

 

[justaway12]

They will explode, killing everyone, Mario will just instantly jump on PT, if they explode, they will all die.
BUT mario has a life shroom

IIRC, they don't have Embargo anyway.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

They will explode, killing everyone, Mario will just instantly jump on PT, if they explode, they will all die.
BUT mario has a life shroom

IIRC, they don't have Embargo anyway.

Plenty of Pokemons can learn Embargo.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...suz8Bg&usg=AFQjCNFee6gUrqzCU1oeygaFc6vyqEEIMg

Anyways, whatever.

 

[justaway12]

Bulbapedia doesn't work for me, it keeps saying "SERVICE UNAVALIBE" and you said 6 electrodes, so I went with that.

 

[Samochan]

Again it would be better to look at canon...The Triforce has been proven to protect Link from curses...

The Triforce doesn't care about Good vs. Evil at all...it only cares about what the user wants...I'm pretty sure Link isn't going to want to be unable to use his items when a being made for fighting is trying to kill him...don't you?

I never said that Embargo was evil magic...I just said that the Triforce would protect Link from it...just because it was "something" that Link wouldn't want to deal with

Embargo is not a curse either, just an affliction, which kind he's not protected against

And triforce doesn't protect Link from things he doesn't wish to deal with. Link has many things he doesn't wish to deal with ingame, but he has to.

(also Phantom Ganon's been hurt by arrows before...again like I said...it depends on game mechs)

On OoT and WW, you can only beat Phantom Ganon by hitting him with Light arrow, then wacking away with Master sword.

Both of those things seem like game mechs really to be honest...in a fight I see no real reason why Link couldn't just warp freely...

Thing is, Link puts a farore wind magic point to somewhere on the dungeon and it always then teleports him to the beginning of that dungeon. How could that work on this type of setting? What would be his teleportation location? Where he stands at the start? :/ If he were to do that, it would be awfully easy to predict (least second usage) and then maul him when he appears.

I'm applying Canon which happens to be the Pokedex.

According to the Pokedex, Garchomp flies at the speed of sound. Mewtwo's Speed stat is higher than this.

According to canon, this is true.

According to canon, Link hook/claw shot grabs onto anything, but not a tree. Can this not be tossed off as "game mechanic"?

It says garchomp CAN fly, but Garchomps stick to ground generaly, as evident from it's ground typing, sand veil ability, cave habitat and the way it stands on it's legs on every sprite and things. >_> There's a difference of constantly flying at the speed of sound and doing so when you want to do it. Chomps are said to fold it's body and extend it's wings when they are about to fly. Chomp is even called the Mach pokemon in species.

And again, simple stats don't tell us everything. Dialga and Palkia can distort time and space (dpp scene) and Arceus is the creator of universe (hgss), but their sp.attack isn't as high as Mewtwo's (though dialga+palkia is only 4 stats less). Doesn't mean Mewtwo can also do that shiz.

Hookshot does latch onto trees on OoT according to Zeldawiki. <_< But claw shot is kinda different from hookshot, it has sorta claws which I doubt would hook into a tree anyway.

The same was applied to Samus. Her boost ball is uber fast according to canon, but the games doesn't show it being as fast as it's supposed to be.
She's also moving around very fast when it's not shown in her games.

I don't believe Samus should be the only one to get this luxury.
Mewtwo can go this fast according to canon so guess what?

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Boost_Ball

Only speed bursts to me, boost ball has never been speed booster fast. <_< But basically such things like Samus speed booster and Sonic speed cannot be depicted on their actual supersonic speeds on 2D games, which are kinda visually limited and trying to control your character in supersonic speeds would be... But you can see those are awesomly fast, even leaving afterimages to depict they are runnign at extremely high speed, so they wouldn't really conflict with the canon information of them moving at the speed of sound.

 

[PowerBomb]

DPP scene doesn't show Palkia/Dialga altering time or space, just making things flash and creating a new galaxy for Cyrus.

Garchomp can't learn Fly, but the Dex says it can fly. Contradiction right there?

EDIT: PT sending out six Electrodes to explode makes him a terrorist. If the explosions have enough range, PT is killed.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, Garchomp does has wings so why shouldn't it fly outside of battle? Hence why you won't encounter any in the wild I guess.

Raizen can Mewtwo already win this? <_<; I want a next match up.

 

[PowerBomb]

Mewtwo wins this because of Embargo spam.

Next match-up please...

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Alrighty. A summary would be nice.

 

[PowerBomb]

Mewtwo, the Psychic Pokemon, learns a crapload of moves, most of them TMs. As TMs are allowed in this match-up for potential reasons, Mewtwo can use Embargo, which renders all of Link's items utterly useless. The exceptions are his sword and shield, which aren't affected due to the way Embargo acts. Mewtwo can now proceed to either boost his power or stall, since it's generally agreed he's a fast little big thing. Once enough boosts have been accumulated, Mewtwo can hit Link with Psychic at his leisure.

 

[Samochan]

DPP scene doesn't show Palkia/Dialga altering time or space, just making things flash and creating a new galaxy for Cyrus.

>_> Creating a new world is definitely altering time and space rofl. But you're basically in denial here. You're so very adamantly against this whole concept you don't accept it even when it slaps you in the face with proof. :/ I'll start ignoring you from now on if you continue with that. Don't be a pessimist. >_>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LNeElvPuOw

5:05 onward, Palkia does fancy space altering stuff.

"Now all will end. And everything will begin. With this Red Chain I will pry open the portal to another dimension. I command that you unleash all your power for me... Dialga/Palkia the mythical Pokémon and the master of time/space! This will bring about the destruction of all things. With everything gone, there will be no fighting and no strife. Can you feel time/space distorting? Only I can choose to stop it. This is the mythical Pokémon that created Sinnoh! Dialga/Palkia the ancient deity of time/space! This world cannot be molded into the ultimate world I seek! It's far easier to create an entirely new world than to change this one! A new world in which I am the ruler of all things! I shall become a deity!" - Cyrus at Spear Pillar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZeB20fDLHM

A repetion of what has already been shown ingame via graphics and Cyrus's speech and stuff. 1:20 is where people and Cynthia explain things, from 4:56 onward if says Dialga is on the other side of the rift (which is a blue thingy you see on the vid).

Now, do you really have any proof to prove this wrong? :/ If not, just accept it and move on. <_<

Garchomp can't learn Fly, but the Dex says it can fly. Contradiction right there?

Magneton can't learn fly either, yet it floats. Same with bronzong, cept it actually learns levitate. Pikachu gets a fly when you catch a special flying pikachu from Pokewalker that comes with HGSS (true fact), yet pikachus don't normally fly. Mew learns fly while it's ability is synchronize and it's not a flying type pokemon either.

Learning fly hm in pokemon means your pokemon can fly you to different towns and such. For a ground pokemon that weights almost 100kg, it would prolly be too stenornous. Garchomps use this flight speed to catch their prey and a human perched atop garchomp would ruin it's compact shape it needs to use to fly around. Not being able to transport humans via flight makes perfect sense and doesn't contradict game mechanics.

Game mechanics don't tell us much really, as I've said before. Pokemon battling game mechanics at least, lol.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Vs.

Current Match-Up:
THE KING OF KOOPAS Vs. THE PSYCHIC CHILD

Bowser Vs. Lucas

Vs. ,

Losers Round 2, Match 2.

Who will win? YOU decide!

Overall Results

Wins +2:

, , , , , , , , ,

Wins +1:

,

Neutral:

, , , , , , , , , , , ichu:, , , , :mewtwo:

Loss -1:

,

Loss -2:

, , , , , , , ,

 

[Samochan]

Wait, where is Lucas' icon on the overall results? <_>

 

[PowerBomb]

>_> Creating a new world is definitely altering time and space rofl. But you're basically in denial here. You're so very adamantly against this whole concept you don't accept it even when it slaps you in the face with proof. :/ I'll start ignoring you from now on if you continue with that. Don't be a pessimist. >_>

I've played D/P a lot... >_>
Altering space: Like a black hole, right? Palkia/Dialga don't alter space. They create something. Well, maybe it is altering space in the manner of making something to occupy that space. They're not rending space and creating black holes or anything, nor do they affect time. They also don't do anything when Giratina appears on Platinum (?). Dunno about that though, just heard it from someone because Giratina pulls a Rayquaza.

"Now all will end. And everything will begin. With this Red Chain I will pry open the portal to another dimension. I command that you unleash all your power for me... Dialga/Palkia the mythical Pokémon and the master of time/space! This will bring about the destruction of all things. With everything gone, there will be no fighting and no strife. Can you feel time/space distorting? Only I can choose to stop it. This is the mythical Pokémon that created Sinnoh! Dialga/Palkia the ancient deity of time/space! This world cannot be molded into the ultimate world I seek! It's far easier to create an entirely new world than to change this one! A new world in which I am the ruler of all things! I shall become a deity!" - Cyrus at Spear Pillar

This doesn't actually happen. I mean, the speech happens, but nothing appears to prove Dialga/Palkia are gods. Time doesn't distort, but Cyrus says it does. Neither does space. You don't see any parts of the world bending out of control. Unless that flashy thing going everywhere is time/space distorting, then eh.

A repetion of what has already been shown ingame via graphics and Cyrus's speech and stuff. 1:20 is where people and Cynthia explain things, from 4:56 onward if says Dialga is on the other side of the rift (which is a blue thingy you see on the vid).

Uh, yeah, I kind of know Palkia/Dialga can travel inter-dimensionally or something since they do that in the game.

Now, do you really have any proof to prove this wrong? :/ If not, just accept it and move on. <_<

Yes, I do. Don't think I don't know anything about some of this stuff.

Magneton can't learn fly either, yet it floats. Same with bronzong, cept it actually learns levitate. Pikachu gets a fly when you catch a special flying pikachu from Pokewalker that comes with HGSS (true fact), yet pikachus don't normally fly. Mew learns fly while it's ability is synchronize and it's not a flying type pokemon either.

Floating isn't really flying. What do you think of when 'Fly' comes to mind? A bird flying through the air? What about 'floating'? Maybe a helicopter standing by or something, IMO.
Mew is Mew. Mew actually proves it can learn all TM/HM/tutor moves.

Learning fly hm in pokemon means your pokemon can fly you to different towns and such. For a ground pokemon that weights almost 100kg, it would prolly be too stenornous. Garchomps use this flight speed to catch their prey and a human perched atop garchomp would ruin it's compact shape it needs to use to fly around. Not being able to transport humans via flight makes perfect sense and doesn't contradict game mechanics.

Pidgey can learn Fly >_>

Spoiler

I'm kidding, I'm kidding

What about Flygon?

Spoiler

I know it's bad, but hey.

Game mechanics don't tell us much really, as I've said before. Pokemon battling game mechanics at least, lol.

Fly is mostly used as an out-of-battle move. Honestly, ever seen someone use Fly in a competitive battle? No, you shouldn't.

Bah I hate long replies.

Wait, where is Lucas' icon on the overall results? <_>

Load fail
And I'm not a pessimist, it's just that too many people overdo Pokemon and especially Mewtwo so that it annoys me.
Although, feel free to boost Lugia via PT. I'm all for that.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Wait, where is Lucas' icon on the overall results? <_>

Woops, happens often.

He's neutral.

 

[justaway12]

Bowser has a star rod =D

He can freeze time, transport in a second in Super Mario Galaxy, make crusher appear in less then his transport.


Though I don't really know what Lucas could do.
I don't think he has anything fast enough, anyway.

But I have to sleep, so I might not respond till the morning and after school.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Don't have much knowledge on neither character. Does Lucas have anything which would stop Bowser's wish from his star rod in time?

 

[PowerBomb]

No, Lucas is quite slow.

EDIT: Ugh, I don't want to respond to Samochan's inevitable large-*** response.

 

[REL38]

Just cuz Palkia/Dialga have less Sp.Attack doesn't mean Mewtwo can.
That's a special ability only they have. Mewtwo doesn't evidence this.


Regigigas can move continents, but couldn't Rampardos as well?
Rampardos' strength is in its head. Not it's arms lol.

Don't even bother bringing logic in here. Humans not being able to take the air force/resistence or w/e?
I find it rather illogical that "Embargo" somehow keeps people from using items, but you don't see me saying, "that makes no sense lol"

Rampardos can fly at insane speeds. Thusly, so can Mewtwo which boosts the actual speed of the other Pokemon here.

Him not learning fly is as game mechanic as my Beautifly or Gryados not learning fly when Beautifly plainly has wings and when it is said in the Pokedex that Gryados can fly.

 

[PowerBomb]

Gyarados can learn Fly?

...what

 

[Samochan]

No, Lucas is quite slow.

EDIT: Ugh, I don't want to respond to Samochan's inevitable large-*** response.

I wasn't actually gonna post anything, because you still wouldn't accept it, no matter how much I argued. So I'd just be wasting my time, when I've already made my point clear with clearer than water evidence as well.

Funnily enough, you didn't argue with Mew, even though you use same argument for every other thing in pokemon. Mew can learn so many tm's and hm's cause it's said by the pokedex to be the ancestor of all pokemon.

"Its DNA is said to contain the genetic codes of all Pokémon, so it can use all kinds of techniques."

And you agreed with this. By game mechanics, mew shouldn't be able to learn fly cause it doesn't learn levitate nor it is a flying pokemon. By game mechanics alone Mew should be unable to float at all. Same goes to defog. Defog can only be learned by pokemon that have wings to flap the fog away, yet mew can learn this too. Mew's breaking game logic due to pokedex lol.

If you are content with this, you should be content with other things in this game too. =)

But now sleep is calling me.

Just cuz Palkia/Dialga have less Sp.Attack doesn't mean Mewtwo can.
That's a special ability only they have. Mewtwo doesn't evidence this.

Regigigas can move continents, but couldn't Rampardos as well?
Rampardos' strength is in its head. Not it's arms lol.

Ding! And we have a winner here. =)

Don't even bother bringing logic in here. Humans not being able to take the air force/resistence or w/e?
I find it rather illogical that "Embargo" somehow keeps people from using items, but you don't see me saying, "that makes no sense lol"

Things don't make sense on this discussion. Samus doesn't make sense, Bowser and Mario don't make sense etc.

Rampardos can fly at insane speeds. Thusly, so can Mewtwo which boosts the actual speed of the other Pokemon here.

Rampardos? <_>; Don't you mean Garchomp? >_>

That would make a good distraction tactic though.
"Look! A flying Rampardos!" Every trainer would turn their gaze and look in wonder "where, where?"

Him not learning fly is as game mechanic as my Beautifly or Gryados not learning fly when Beautifly plainly has wings and when it is said in the Pokedex that Gryados can fly.

Pokedex makes no mention of Gyarados being able to fly. >_> Research pls.

And Beatifly is a butterfly, butterflies are not capable of carrying people around, which they need to do in order to learn fly. Graphically your character also hops on top of that pokemon when you use fly. Though I admit, Starly/pidgey learning fly is kinda lol, them being so small. But if it weren't so, you'd be forced to evolve your pokemon in order to teach fly to em, or capture a lot more specific pokemon and the game makers don't want that to happen. Heck, on DPP the only flyer you'll really meet early is starly and staravia, which are both too small to carry people. This would create some real issues with gameplay. Problems such as...

http://serebii.net/comic/01.shtml

 

[_clinton]

Bowser has a star rod =D
He can freeze time, transport in a second in Super Mario Galaxy, make crusher appear in less then his transport.
Though I don't really know what Lucas could do.

The Short version for my response is: Lucas can grant wishes without a star rod...that is what Lucas can do...

Also because so many people don't understand Mother's canon I'm just going to point this out right now...Lucas is = to Ness as far as power goes (in fact its sort of how all of the Links are the same if you get my point)...The only reason people think of Ness as more powerful than is Lucas is because you get to play Ness' somemore after his powers are unlocked unlike with Lucas...

When Lucas gets his powers the game ends right away because Lucas remakes the world with them...

Lucas/Ness' powers are powerful enough to strike fear into a being that is able to destroy the universe (Giygas), and do you know why? The answer is because Ness/Lucas have the same power as this being...

 

[Samochan]

Wishing to win is banned though, and for Lucas to be able to do something to Bowser, he'd need to remove his invincibility by wishing it or draw the match by wishing to be invincible himself. But as you said, he lost his powers in the end of the game when his wish came true and unlike Lucas, Bowser's star rod is not limited to 1 time use only.

But why hasn't this been mentioned before? Or is it because it's endgame special treatment? <

 

[Vonzar the Soulrender]

Wow... I can't believe you guys would argue that Embargo affects Link at all. This is just ridiculous.

Embargo is not a curse either, just an affliction, which kind he's not protected against

When is Link afflicted by anything while wielding the Master Sword? Triforce of Courage + Master Sword = no curses, no afflictions... maybe fire though.

On OoT and WW, you can only beat Phantom Ganon by hitting him with Light arrow, then wacking away with Master sword.

this is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts. In both OoT and WW you can simply reflect Phantom Ganon's attacks back at him with the Master Sword. In fact in both games if this were true you could never finish the game because you fight Phantom Ganon much much earlier than you ever see the Light Arrows.

Thing is, Link puts a farore wind magic point to somewhere on the dungeon and it always then teleports him to the beginning of that dungeon. How could that work on this type of setting? What would be his teleportation location? Where he stands at the start? :/ If he were to do that, it would be awfully easy to predict (least second usage) and then maul him when he appears.

Seems like game mechanics to me. When you receive the spell it has this description "This is warp magic you can use with (C). Use it when you are in danger! I could concede this point though due to the game being too vague about it

Hookshot does latch onto trees on OoT according to Zeldawiki. <_< But claw shot is kinda different from hookshot, it has sorta claws which I doubt would hook into a tree anyway.

The hookshot isn't anything magical but it is supposed to be able to hook onto anything.