Smash Bros at Niko's Returns! March 14, 2009. (SBaN #8!)

[Ayaz18]

wait i'm confsued. i thought the wobbling was toned down to 2? isn't chain grabbing allowed still for IC? and i guess it takes skill...but like when i play nasir he always gets a gauranteed death on me when he does the alt throws...i mean i know i'm not good, but still for characters with limited range like luigi it's way to gay...i have to use ike and it's still hard as f.u.c.k cuz ike sucks.

see heres the issue, if everyone realizes that it takes SKILL to zero-death with IC then we wouldn't have this dispute.

if you hinder their grabs you hinder the PLAYER'S SKILL


but then you get stories like KC, where grabs become "cheap"........because something is cheap doesn't mean it should be banned, if there are like anything to anything combo's then it should be banned because there is no PLAYER SKILL. That's the reason MK should not be banned.

 

[Ambrose]

Wow, that's the most I've seen Ambrose post ever. You didn't come to Starfurry you punk... or even message me telling me you weren't going to make it. I guess what I said didn't mean anything to you =/.

On Topic: By banning CGs, you are only furthering MK and Snakes reign over every other character. *shrugs*

I would of came if grmo didn't cancel brawl. D:

 

[nickcam]

I woudlnt ban the whole chaingrab, the limit idea that brose proposed is a great idea. Also, coming from a wario main im kinda use to getting killed outta grabs so i say limit the CG to 100% and let them keep there kill move.

 

[Niko_K]

My limit idea still allows a guaranteed 50+ just from one grab, making it equivalent to the other CG's in the game. The IC metagame at the moment is just far too dependent on the infinite thus taking away from what the character can do besides execute the infinite.

IC's have priority too yknow.

 

[Anth0ny]

Don't get grabbed.

I remember facing Lain at LBT and he absolutely wrecked me with the Iceys infinite. Since then, after a lot of practice and nightmares of Lain and his Climbers haunting me, I've learned how to get around the grab. In pools at OIN4, I didn't get grabbed by Ambrose once.

Then again, I do use MK

 

[Niko_K]

Because of that it instantly puts the IC main at a mental superiority due to anticipating his opponents actions and what the opponent plans to accomplish before the match even starts.

 

[pastaboy]

1st of all this is just a bi weekly, it isnt a huge scale tourny(yet) so it isnt affecting alot of people
2nd its still in testing "stage" if some stuff needs to be ironed out or not balanced im sure niko will add or remove existing rules to balance it.

 

[KingAce]

actually i hav a change of heart LOL yes niko ban those gay grabs and hes right out of a grab u can still get like 50+ damage.... thats actually a bit more then DDD's average chaingrab and just about the same as a falco chaingrab at low %. good rule

and i disagree with what people are saying about ics grabs take skill and technically someone can jv 4 stock another person with enough skill. those 2 cant be compared. there is no way anyone will ever be perfect to the point that they wont get hit and will win every game with cf. however, it only takes like 2-3 weeks of good practice to almost perfect the ic infinites.... meaning it takes a LOT LESS skill to do the gay *** infinites and make your opponent lose an entire stock. either leave it at 100% limit or leave it how nikos rules are now.

and mk is broken but theres actually so much stuff to do against mk and many options and its actually fun (atleast for me) when i use falco or snake vs a different mk. however.... anyone vs an ic the first thing anyone will tell you is ... "DONT GET GRABBED" or u lose a whole stock -.-
that promotes so much more camping in an already campy game

 

[Niko_K]

It also promotes camping from the IC player. The IC player, knowing he spawns with everything he needs to infinite the other character, has no real reason to approach. But instead anticipate his opponents limited options.

 

[Mikey7]

I dunno...everyone that knows me knows that IC's are my worst matchup...but if this was such an issue, ICs would have won COT4.

 

[Niko_K]

D3 standing infinite doesn't win tournaments either. Yet it's overall agreed to be banned. Yet it only affects 6 characters. Tournaments consist of more than these 6 characters.

IC Infinite, affects the entire cast EXCEPT ITSELF. And promotes terrible camping from both characters. One side is evading grabs, the other is simply keeping you away.

Saying that if it was a truly a problem could only be represented by the ICs winning a large scale tournament is untrue, large scale assumption.

My Example: Lain
If you fight an equivalently skilled opponent and use a high tier character such as D3, and lose to them that means your opponent is better. But then use a lower tier character with a more disadvantageous match-up but win against said opponent, wouldn't that symbolize that the IC infinite is a crutch to player skill?

 

[Mikey7]

Dedede's grab is literally just dthrow -> spam grab though lol

 

[Niko_K]

It also isn't infinite and doesn't work on the entire cast. Plus, it isn't his entire metagame. Unlike the ICs.

 

[Mikey7]

Well yeah ICs cant fight for garbage lol...but the only reason I posted here was basically this is affecting 1 person: Ambrose.

The crutch for skill argument - might as well ban my Falco camping too (lasers to phantasm over and over), because if I don't know a match, I will sit there and play as gay as possible til I know whats coming.

OH sorry and Nasir too : P

 

[Niko_K]

ICs can fight, they have amazing priority and all the spacing tools needed.

Falco camping isn't infinite and is able to be countered through patience.

 

[Mikey7]

IC's are also beat through patience : )

 

[Niko_K]

Grabs are also attained through patience.

Continue if you'd like.

 

[Mikey7]

Ugh arguing is not my thing

But another huge point is it just makes Canada look scrub : /

 

[KingAce]

ya lol ics dont have to be winning tournies for a broken tactic to be banned

 

[Percon]

I hope this isn't leftover Miller angst...

 

[nasir123]

hey niko hats gay man dun limit the IC gain grab tugghh 2 thats juss gay make it like six or sumtuhn...but i guess i'll still come...im pissed though

 

[Ambrose]

ya lol ics dont have to be winning tournies for a broken tactic to be banned

Phil, you know what's broken?

It has 6 jumps
It can spin in circles at mach speed and own you
It can enter into another dimension and never be seen again

Oh yea, it also wears a mask.

 

[Wolfblade]

Oh, angst... reminds me of high school.

P.S. In the Humber tourney some guy made the most awesome move against me. When my Lucario ***** him in round one he coutner picked Lylat Cruise and he chose MK. Happiest moment of my smash life.

P.P.S. Niko, set me up against Ace in the brackets, I'd dying to fight a good MK ^^

 

[Percon]

Phil, you know what's broken?

It has 6 jumps
It can spin in circles and own you
It can enter into another dimension and never be seen again

Oh yea, it also wears a mask.

LOL

You're the best, Ambrose.

 

[tha_carter]

LOL

Popo and nana have to be side-by-side. Any sort of seperation gives you time to wiggle out before they get the chance to chaingrab. Not to mention you can just kill nana, so its not like the infinite is always available. Plus their grab range is extremely bad.

That being said, this anti-ambrose rule will be used at all future crew battles at my house. =)

 

[nickcam]

Phil, you know what's broken?

It has 6 jumps
It can spin in circles and own you
It can enter into another dimension and never be seen again

Oh yea, it also wears a mask.

what the hell wario man isnt broken =)

 

[KC18]

hey niko hats gay man dun limit the IC gain grab tugghh 2 thats juss gay make it like six or sumtuhn...but i guess i'll still come...im pissed though

yo man there's no reason to be pissed, you can still do massive damage. it would be good to get used to players being able to resist grab **** so you can adapt to other situations better and have to think rather than just going in for the grab. too much grab reliance.

and exactly what jarred said, this is only going to be the first biweekly with this in place so there's gonna be room for changes in the future if any need to be made.

and nasir, you do use other characters lol

 

[Niko_K]

LOL

Popo and nana have to be side-by-side. Any sort of seperation gives you time to wiggle out before they get the chance to chaingrab. Not to mention you can just kill nana, so its not like the infinite is always available. Plus their grab range is extremely bad.

That being said, this anti-ambrose rule will be used at all future crew battles at my house. =)

They start off side by side. It's just extra work for the opponent to make the infinite not available.

Hence all my other statements. Crew battle ****?!?!?! LMFAO

 

[nasir123]

Phil, you know what's broken?

It has 6 jumps
It can spin in circles and own you
It can enter into another dimension and never be seen again

Oh yea, it also wears a mask.

LMFAOOOO abrose ur too good man and yeah man dun u think that the IC chain grab should at least be limited to at least like 6 or sumthin??

 

[nasir123]

yo man there's no reason to be pissed, you can still do massive damage. it would be good to get used to players being able to resist grab **** so you can adapt to other situations better and have to think rather than just going in for the grab. too much grab reliance.

and exactly what jarred said, this is only going to be the first biweekly with this in place so there's gonna be room for changes in the future if any need to be made.

and nasir, you do use other characters lol

SRRY DUBBLE POST.. kc man the only thing about IC is that there grabs are gay thats the onlything like king ace's first tourny he got like top 10 and all he used was what was good with m/k thats what lain does 2 he just spams blizzard and grab thats what i do 2 and i unno about ambrose he has a weird style but he still racks up by chain grab

 

[Anth0ny]

Phil, you know what's broken?

It has 6 jumps
It can spin in circles at mach speed and own you
It can enter into another dimension and never be seen again

Oh yea, it also wears a mask.

LOL

Ambrose is too good

 

[AllyKnight]

Niko, just telling you, we're driving to your house biatch XD

 

[Wolfblade]

Ha ha wow. Look at the competition. This is gonna be one of the most cut throat tournies yet

 

[Niko_K]

I'm capping the amount of people at this tournament to what it is at now. Also, due to the $5 pot size, only first and second will be getting payouts.

70/30.

 

[Wolfblade]

Shot 1st Place!

 

[KC18]

prolly won't be coming anymore...got resident evil 5, going to be playing this game an unnatural amount lol

 

[Niko_K]

It's ok man. Next time.

 

[Lawlb0t]

Lmao KC.

lol.

 

[nasir123]

actually i hav a change of heart LOL yes niko ban those gay grabs and hes right out of a grab u can still get like 50+ damage.... thats actually a bit more then DDD's average chaingrab and just about the same as a falco chaingrab at low %. good rule

and i disagree with what people are saying about ics grabs take skill and technically someone can jv 4 stock another person with enough skill. those 2 cant be compared. there is no way anyone will ever be perfect to the point that they wont get hit and will win every game with cf. however, it only takes like 2-3 weeks of good practice to almost perfect the ic infinites.... meaning it takes a LOT LESS skill to do the gay *** infinites and make your opponent lose an entire stock. either leave it at 100% limit or leave it how nikos rules are now.

and mk is broken but theres actually so much stuff to do against mk and many options and its actually fun (atleast for me) when i use falco or snake vs a different mk. however.... anyone vs an ic the first thing anyone will tell you is ... "DONT GET GRABBED" or u lose a whole stock -.-
that promotes so much more camping in an already campy game

Ayaz Here:

Ace I don't think you still understand my point. My point is that this rule limits Skill. What's the point of studying and practicing a tactic to have it limited, your limiting the character AND the player, putting an unfair advantage to the opponent.

Grabs are a tactic by the ICs, get around it. That's why people say "don't get grabbed". It promotes camping but, nothing too serious like stalling. If you know the IC are hungry for a grab you don't need to plank or stall. It's just what most players do. If anything, the opponent promotes camping by trying to play it safe.

You have a choice people

And let me say that I find IC just as gay as anybody else.........I freggin play Nasir EVERY DAY. I can't tell you the amount of times I have actually thrown my controller at him (yes I have)

And yes Ace I could JV 4 you in grand Finals with show me your moves and Falcon punch. Its just a VERY slight possibility

Case1: you SD three times in a row because you controller cord ticked you

Case2: everytime you dash towards me you trip into a Falcon punch

Case3: I do down taunt at the beginning of the match, you become disgraced by your lack of manliness and forfeit

ofcoarse these cases are ridiculous but they bring up the point that ANYTHING can happen. Don't argue with this point because you'll be fighting an un-winnable war.

 

[Lawlb0t]

HAHAHA. Death by manliness.