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"SMASH ATTACK" - April 03.-05. '09, Bremen

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Tonb3rry

Smash Ace
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Any type of game can be Competitive. whether, it is fast or slow or boring or exciting, it will still be competitive. Yes, sakurai did make it the game as casual as possible but it doesn't mean it can not be a Competitive game. Brawl is boring when you are watching rubbish players play or on wifi. When you are watching good players play, it is exciting to watch IMO.
Okay, to just answer you and end this:
You have your opinions, I have mine. IMO a game should be fun to play, and I don't think Brawl is fun to play, and sadly it is even less fun to watch others play that game. Also, I never watch Brawl videos of obvious reasons. In short terms that is what Brawl is as a game to me, no special reason to discuss that further more. I don't even want to get into Brawl and competitivity, as that probably will make the discussion even bigger.

How about you guys shut the fukc up with this stupid melee vs brawl **** ?
YOUR FONT SIZE IS TOO SMALL! I CAN'T SEE WHAT YOU'RE WRITING!
 

Samochan

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I'm in your house, dsmashing your tv
Soo... seems like I'd want to attend this instead of esa3, as too many people attend this one and not esa, and neutroni is wanting to come as well. Cept there is a problem, no direct flight from oulu-helsinki to bremen. <_< And then they cost like over 500 whut. So it's either around 340-320 finnair from oulu to helsinki to hamburg, then I suppose train to bremen. Or train to tampere and back is around 120€, then ryanair is around 50-60€ to bremen and back. I need to discuss this with neutroni and see how it goes, it would be 10x times easier to travel on a group. ^^
 

Lawrencelot

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Maybe something can be arranged during the brawl tourney for all the melee lovers, like a side-event? (melee low-tier or something). But there are probably not enough tv's. If I'd go by car, I could bring my tv...

We (melee players) really should come up with something amazing to do during the brawl tourney, that doesn't ruin that tourney but still is awesome :)
 

Requiem

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
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WHAT IS THIS PLACE
Maybe something can be arranged during the brawl tourney for all the melee lovers, like a side-event? (melee low-tier or something). But there are probably not enough tv's. If I'd go by car, I could bring my tv...

We (melee players) really should come up with something amazing to do during the brawl tourney, that doesn't ruin that tourney but still is awesome :)
cpt falcon only tourny.
 

turtlecake

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lol there will be friendly TV's for the melee people

dont make the same mistake as ESA 2 and hold too many events cuz
 

turtlecake

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This is UCK's first time holding an event


lol

tero and his friends who held SR should be TO's for this as well.

also wingz wtf is up with your avatar, mad creepy.
 

Samochan

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I want to adress couple of rules here, which I feel have not been thoroughly explained and just pasted here, along with some stages which I feel are inappropriate to be played on as they have been banned on. And as an experienced tournament organizer, I feel it's prudent to address these problems before the tourney as well.

First of all, the whole of the ruleset should be more thoroughly explained as not everyone will know what "advanced slob picks" mean, to be more newb and user friendly.

Secondly, I do think many points here haven't been explained well. What variation of dave's stupid rule is in place? Is it that same stage cannot be played on the set at all (nu-uh), that the player who has won on that stage cannot play that stage on the set, or that the player cannot play the stage he last won on (this one I approve the most).

Then comes the double blind stageban and stage banning in general. Is every stage bannable or just counterpicks? And is this blind stagebanning mandatory? It's not easily enforced and most played would opt to ban stages after the other one has, while usually have decided to already ban one stage. If a scenario occurs that someone wants to ban the same stage, both players can decide on banning another stage fairly well and in quite less time than 3 minutes lol.

I'd also like to note that skyworld, according to sbr recommended brawl rule list, is on the counter/banned section and as your list of brawl cp stages feature none of the other stages on that category, it would be reasonable to remove skyworld from that list as well. Not only skyworld is atrocious as a stage, but you cannot simply take one stage from one category as you see fit and ignore all others which are as good/bad stages when you've neglected to add all of the stages from the foremost counterpick section, but then went and added one stage that's on the werge of being a banned stage instead (and in about every tourney it is). I opt to ban that hideous stage from the list instead of adding more however, as no one wants to play on stage that severely hinders character recovery, easy meteors and kills trough cloud and ceiling spikes.

I also don't see rainbow cruise on that list, when it's borderline neutral stage but less fair stages like luigi's mansion, pirate ship, pictochat and frigate orpheon. That should be remedied.

There is no mention of pools in here, I'm hoping we're gonna have pools though because without those seeding in bracket is gonna be hell and noone can really make that work. Approximate timetable would also be nice, so we'd know when to go to sleep so we can be awake when tourney starts and grab breakfast before that. I'm also interested if there's a kitchen we can use with enough room on refrigerator and ice box, then michrowave. Needs more detailed maps as well.

I'm also been made aware that you are seriously planning on runnign over 150 man (and woman) tourney all by yourself. That wouldn't do. It is most unfortunate to hear that you do not want help from any other more experienced tournament hoster but insist on doing all the stuff by yourself, which is one of the reasons why esa2 failed to work properly. I'm also aware that this is the reason why swedish opt to come here instead of esa3. Do you really want to submit them to the same thing they want to avoid and make german smashers a laughing stock because of a failed tournament? From the opening post I could see you have not dwelled on understanding the principles of the rules in place, nor organizing the tournament and what it entails. It is definitely not a picnic, especially a tournament of this scale but hard and stressful work, especially for a newbie organizer.

You are most fortunate to have people willing to help you organize this big tourney, you should be glad and not push them away because if you do, you will either fail the tourney by not being a good organizer and spending too much time playing while you should organize things or not touching the controller at all if you want things to run smoothly. Spare yourself the stress, swallow your pride and let trustworthy and dependable people aid you. That is my advice to you and you would be wise to heed it.

On last note, peach castle, onett, termina bay and mushroom kingdom 2 have gotten banned from counterpicks used on tourneys ages ago. Only onett is used on sweden anymore. I can live with those, however Battlefield should also belong to the neutral stage list, especially on doubles instead of dk64 with also bad ledges and a barrel to boot, as the bad ledges is nothing more but a big john for those who cannot grab it and only a mild setback for fox and falco users who gain much more with other stages and especially the campy counterpicks in place. The ledge is same for everyone, deal with it. YS cloud can be ten times worse. This ruleset to me shows favoritism to fox and falco players imo, because what good reason there is to cp battlefield over dk64 when dk64 has more working against it being neutral stage? None, other than giving falco and fox a barrel to work on instead of overrated-crappy-ledges-for-everyone stage.


Noow... when I got that done... about housing me and another finn then. :p
 

Tero.

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
2,686
I haven't seen UCK online for quite a while and I just felt like answering some of your stuff

Secondly, I do think many points here haven't been explained well. What variation of dave's stupid rule is in place? Is it that same stage cannot be played on the set at all (nu-uh), that the player who has won on that stage cannot play that stage on the set, or that the player cannot play the stage he last won on (this one I approve the most).
DSR acording to the german SBR:
You cannot pick the stage you last won on.

I'm quite sure he's going to use this one.


Then comes the double blind stageban and stage banning in general. Is every stage bannable or just counterpicks? And is this blind stagebanning mandatory? It's not easily enforced and most played would opt to ban stages after the other one has, while usually have decided to already ban one stage. If a scenario occurs that someone wants to ban the same stage, both players can decide on banning another stage fairly well and in quite less time than 3 minutes lol.
You can ban every stage.
Double Blind Stagebanning is not mandatory, it only becomes valid if you can't agree on who bans first.

I'd also like to note that skyworld, according to sbr recommended brawl rule list, is on the counter/banned section and as your list of brawl cp stages feature none of the other stages on that category, it would be reasonable to remove skyworld from that list as well. Not only skyworld is atrocious as a stage, but you cannot simply take one stage from one category as you see fit and ignore all others which are as good/bad stages when you've neglected to add all of the stages from the foremost counterpick section, but then went and added one stage that's on the werge of being a banned stage instead (and in about every tourney it is). I opt to ban that hideous stage from the list instead of adding more however, as no one wants to play on stage that severely hinders character recovery, easy meteors and kills trough cloud and ceiling spikes.
Skyworld is on the list because UCK "likes it", you can have a look at the first pages, we allready had this argument.
Skyworld is ********, so is the SBR ruleset, I would suggest using Umbreon's ruleset but w/e it's just me.

I also don't see rainbow cruise on that list, when it's borderline neutral stage but less fair stages like luigi's mansion, pirate ship, pictochat and frigate orpheon. That should be remedied.
This is probably a mistake, I don't think UCK would actually ban RC.

There is no mention of pools in here, I'm hoping we're gonna have pools though because without those seeding in bracket is gonna be hell and noone can really make that work. Approximate timetable would also be nice, so we'd know when to go to sleep so we can be awake when tourney starts and grab breakfast before that. I'm also interested if there's a kitchen we can use with enough room on refrigerator and ice box, then michrowave. Needs more detailed maps as well.
There will be pools.

I'm also been made aware that you are seriously planning on runnign over 150 man (and woman) tourney all by yourself. That wouldn't do. It is most unfortunate to hear that you do not want help from any other more experienced tournament hoster but insist on doing all the stuff by yourself, which is one of the reasons why esa2 failed to work properly. I'm also aware that this is the reason why swedish opt to come here instead of esa3. Do you really want to submit them to the same thing they want to avoid and make german smashers a laughing stock because of a failed tournament? From the opening post I could see you have not dwelled on understanding the principles of the rules in place, nor organizing the tournament and what it entails. It is definitely not a picnic, especially a tournament of this scale but hard and stressful work, especially for a newbie organizer.

You are most fortunate to have people willing to help you organize this big tourney, you should be glad and not push them away because if you do, you will either fail the tourney by not being a good organizer and spending too much time playing while you should organize things or not touching the controller at all if you want things to run smoothly. Spare yourself the stress, swallow your pride and let trustworthy and dependable people aid you. That is my advice to you and you would be wise to heed it.
He won't run this alone, he allready wrote on the german boards that a few people will help (including Luma, Yomi, me, ...). Don't worry about that.

On last note, peach castle, onett, termina bay and mushroom kingdom 2 have gotten banned from counterpicks used on tourneys ages ago. Only onett is used on sweden anymore. I can live with those, however Battlefield should also belong to the neutral stage list, especially on doubles instead of dk64 with also bad ledges and a barrel to boot, as the bad ledges is nothing more but a big john for those who cannot grab it and only a mild setback for fox and falco users who gain much more with other stages and especially the campy counterpicks in place. The ledge is same for everyone, deal with it. YS cloud can be ten times worse. This ruleset to me shows favoritism to fox and falco players imo, because what good reason there is to cp battlefield over dk64 when dk64 has more working against it being neutral stage? None, other than giving falco and fox a barrel to work on instead of overrated-crappy-ledges-for-everyone stage.
Termina Bay and MC2 are ******** and nobody uses them except for UCK >_>
Peach's Castle and Onett are normal stages in the german ruleset, we're allready creating a ruleset with fewer and more conservative stages, I'm not sure if UCK considers using it for this tournament.


Remember: this is not official, UCK is the host. Most of it should be accurate tho.
 

Askeflink

Smash Journeyman
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One or two rounds of pool? And I should remind you that seeding is quite though for large international tournaments, and you would need to talk to people from the different countries on forehand to make it work.
 

Tero.

Smash Champion
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Messages
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One or two rounds of pool? And I should remind you that seeding is quite though for large international tournaments, and you would need to talk to people from the different countries on forehand to make it work.
Thank you, we allready know this =P
I don't know how many rounds of pools there will be, sorry.
 

Samochan

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Thanks tero, I'd still like to know bout possible timetable and the kitchen machinery. :3

One or two rounds of pool? And I should remind you that seeding is quite though for large international tournaments, and you would need to talk to people from the different countries on forehand to make it work.
This. Power rankings work if they're up to date work somewhat, but yea... I'd guess me and neutroni would be around 2-3rd seeds. Neutroni did really well on SR4 (top 8), along with being 3rd on finnish pr, so he should deserve mid-low 2nd seed at least. Myself would be around 3rd seed I think, since I haven't really been outside finland for a year but I manage well within finland (6th on pr).
 

Vegard

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I think you should cut down on the events, and maybe run Melee pools on Friday evening instead of low tiers. I'm just nervous there will be time difficulties, I'm really concerned about the time schedule :p
 

Tero.

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Why do u guys even plan on having LT ? :p
Because we always have LT in germany.

@Acherontic: Don't worry, we're going to manage it somehow.

*still waiting for uck to go online*
 

HURRICANE REV

Smash Ace
Joined
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733
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UK, East London
Okay, to just answer you and end this:
You have your opinions, I have mine. IMO a game should be fun to play, and I don't think Brawl is fun to play, and sadly it is even less fun to watch others play that game. Also, I never watch Brawl videos of obvious reasons. In short terms that is what Brawl is as a game to me, no special reason to discuss that further more. I don't even want to get into Brawl and competitivity, as that probably will make the discussion even bigger.
Fair enough.
 

Tonb3rry

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Because we always have LT in germany.

@Acherontic: Don't worry, we're going to manage it somehow.

*still waiting for uck to go online*
LT is t3h own!
I trust you that you'll organize this well, so don't listen to Ache and Zephy. They are among the few guys in Norway who doesn't like LT<_<
 

Marc

Relic of the Past
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I'm a bit late to the party, but I have some things to say. I didn't read the entire thread, so please keep that in mind.

Six events in three days for a first time host seems like way too much. What are you going to do to prevent a second ESA2 from happening? This has the potential to be big, but it also has the potential to fail big time. How are you going to pull this off? To me it seems like you'd need a big staff. Not trying to be a **** here, but so far responses haven't been very reassuring.

Then there's the ruleset. It's not what we're used to in (most of) Europe. Even if you copy/pasted it from the SBR ruleset, that one is outdated and quite liberal from our point of view. I can inform you that it will be updated shortly and there will be additional bans. I'm willing to help you, but only if you're willing to make changes. Are you?

Why is the prize money for Brawl divided differently?

This will do for now. It's unlikely I'll be there, but who knows...
 

Tonb3rry

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Like many others, I'm really interested in knowing how you're going to pull this off.

To just give you something to compare with:
Smashers' Reunion 4:
- Had 66 entrants.
- Was a 4-day event.
- Had 16 TVs.
- Had 5 events.
- Didn't have big organizing problems(I kept the tourneys running all the time), but most tourneys still ended at midnight.

You got like more than twice as many entrants as SR4 had, and in addition the organizer of this tournament got no experience at all (as I've heard). You also got one less day than SR4 had, but one event more.

So: How are you going to organize the tournament by the schedule? Do you have enough TVs/Gamecubes/Wiis? Is the organizer(s) willing to do what it takes to organize and run the tournament well?
And my last question: WHY THE *UCK IS IT SO HARD TO GET CONTACT WITH THE ORGANIZER!?
 

turtlecake

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Um

Inui was good at melee

what are you talking about

hes probably better than a pretty huge percent of europe. lay off the crap talk. he was top 10 in tri state for awhile lol

l2 tourney result history
 

Zgetto

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Um

Inui was good at melee

what are you talking about

hes probably better than a pretty huge percent of europe. lay off the crap talk. he was top 10 in tri state for awhile lol

l2 tourney result history
Nah the us has crap sheiks, he would get ***** by the top players from the netherlands thats for sure.
 

turtlecake

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Nah the us has crap sheiks, he would get ***** by the top players from the netherlands thats for sure.
I agree with this 100%.

We have drephen.(lololol)

Top players in the netherlands are like the best in europe though. lol
 
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