Smash 64 Makes A New Tier List After 4 Years

[pidgezero_one]

The first installment of the Smash Bros. series has a new community-voted tier list after four years of incredible metagame advancement.

The Smash 64 community has been growing steadily, seeing a surge in netplay tournaments (currently held weekly), console communities popping up all across the West, and its biggest (by number of pre-registrants) North American console tournament of all time in Apex 2015. The meta continues to change and advance, including some unprecedented and unexpected results like multiple Yoshis making Top 8 at Apex 2015.

The 2015 community tier list was announced here, applies only to Dream Land (being the game's only true neutral stage, as well as its only starter), and is as follows (from top to bottom):

| | | ​

Smash 64 is sometimes called the "most balanced" Smash game, with top players achieving phenomenal results with characters not considered very viable, such as Isai's Link and Jouske's Samus. Ironman matches (called "12 Character Battles", or "12CB") are extremely popular, and top players are able to play well as just about any character on the roster. The gap between top tiers and bottom tiers is still evident, though not quite as large as it is in Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4.

Accordingly, the tier list had not been given a whole lot of extensive thought in the way of community discussion in about four years. The previous tier list was created during a different stage of the game's meta (notably, a time when Hyrule Castle was still legal, which it has not been at major North American tournaments since before Apex 2014) and was considered by most to be quite outdated.

It's quite a jump for some characters -- Samus moved up from dead last to 8th, Jigglypuff moved up from 8th to 6th.

I wonder what kind of character results we can expect from the next upcoming major Smash 64 tournament, Smash of Ages? What will the tier list look like in another 4 years?

pidgezero_one is a Jigglypuff fanatic who is not at all unhappy with the character's improved position on the tier list. You can follow her on Twitter at @pidgezero_one.

 

[Silvalfo]

64 community activity makes me happy

 

[pidgezero_one]

Reminder for those who want to pick up smash 64 but don't know where to get started, I wrote a guide just for you on getting into the game and finding human opponents. Show us your chops!

 

[ミスティック Speed]

More balanced than Smash 4..?
Yeah, no.

 

[TheForestGreenSheik]

Smash 64 needed this update. Hopefully the community gets even stronger!

 

[Ozyroth]

Why Luigi is Bottom?
I don't play the game, but I love watching it at high level (apex 215 was hype) can some one explain to me?

 

[Blargg888]

Aww.... now Luigi is dead last...
Oh well, I sorta expected it anyways. Still, interesting to see.

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

Always glad to see activity in the 64 community.

 

[Darklink401]

More balanced than Smash 4..?
Yeah, no.

It's definitely possible, both are well balanced, just, this game's balance is less impressive since balancing a roster of 50 characters is much harder than balancing a roster of 12.

That being said, I still have full intentions of using Link

 

[Nixon Corral]

Reminder for those who want to pick up smash 64 but don't know where to get started, I wrote a guide just for you on getting into the game and finding human opponents. Show us your chops!

I thought this article was awesome. I've delayed getting into this game seriously for too long. Hope to move it off of the "to-do" list and onto the "done" list sooner rather than later!

 

[Snagrio]

Luigi's reaction:

 

[Comet Shrine]

woot woot 64 community

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

Don't worry guys, I'll raise Luigi up a few spots with my performance

 

[dy831532sssfjhhggb2224523]

Aww.... now Luigi is dead last...
Oh well, I sorta expected it anyways. Still, interesting to see.

Luigi took the last 64 colorado event, don't worry too much about it

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

Good to see Jigglypuff higher!
I know the gap is lower than in the sequels, but what exactly makes Link so "bad" (aside from that monstruosity that's called a "recovery")?

 

[Darklink401]

Good to see Jigglypuff higher!
I know the gap is lower than in the sequels, but what exactly makes Link so "bad" (aside from that monstruosity that's called a "recovery")?

Slow moves in general, compared to most of the cast, I'd think.

 

[THE_MAAFIA]

More balanced than Smash 4..?
Yeah, no.

Actually, it is, EVERY character is VIABLE (dude I play luigi, who's considered the worst now, and got 30th at apex) The gap is so small, it's possible, plus this is the first smash game, with a low budget, they didn't have much time balancing things, but they hit it spot on, now let's look at the wii u, isn't it lucky how it can have updates to the game to balance things? Yea 64 didn't have that so I vote
64>wii U balancing

 

[Radical Larry]

If you honestly think about it, here's how the 64 Tier List SHOULD be:

|||||

Samus is not good by any standard, and has the absolute worst recovery in the game (which can be debatable as Link and Captain Falcon's recoveries are also considered the most poor).

Link can trump the bottom five since he has ranged attacks that outclass them by a longshot, has at least some combo capability, added with strong (and unlike the stigma, fast) attacks and a versatile gameplay. He has a poor recovery, so what? He's still mid-tier at least.

Luigi is just better than Samus or Ness, period. He's got too much tools that make him seem like a more viable character than either.

Other than that, the placements of the rest aren't really up for debate.

Lastly, a game so balanced and dug out should NOT need a tier list (hypocritical statement, I know), but only because of the two aforementioned things I said about it being balanced and dug out. Anyone can win tournaments now.

Good to see Jigglypuff higher!
I know the gap is lower than in the sequels, but what exactly makes Link so "bad" (aside from that monstruosity that's called a "recovery")?

Slow moves in general, compared to most of the cast, I'd think.

Nothing actually; his moves, unlike what most people think, aren't actually that slow (don't go into frame data on this, just go by the perception of the speed). He might have some slow attacks, but his attack power is beyond comprehension (having extremely powerful attacks). He has a great combo game with Boomerang, an amazing projectile game, but the only hindrance (which is solved in the Japanese version of the game) is his recovery, which is debated to be the worst in the game.

 

[Mike Voss-Trikstar]

The first installment of the Smash Bros. series has a new community-voted tier list after four years of incredible metagame advancement.

The Smash 64 community has been growing steadily, seeing a surge in netplay tournaments (currently held weekly), console communities popping up all across the West, and its biggest (by number of pre-registrants) North American console tournament of all time in Apex 2015. The meta continues to change and advance, including some unprecedented and unexpected results like multiple Yoshis making Top 8 at Apex 2015.

The 2015 community tier list was announced here, applies only to Dream Land (being the game's only true neutral stage, as well as its only starter), and is as follows (from top to bottom):

| | | ​

Smash 64 is sometimes called the "most balanced" Smash game, with top players achieving phenomenal results with characters not considered very viable, such as Isai's Link and Jouske's Samus. Ironman matches (called "12 Character Battles", or "12CB") are extremely popular, and top players are able to play well as just about any character on the roster. The gap between top tiers and bottom tiers is still evident, though not quite as large as it is in Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4.

Accordingly, the tier list had not been given a whole lot of extensive thought in the way of community discussion in about four years. The previous tier list was created during a different stage of the game's meta (notably, a time when Hyrule Castle was still legal, which it has not been at major North American tournaments since before Apex 2014) and was considered by most to be quite outdated.

It's quite a jump for some characters -- Samus moved up from dead last to 8th, Jigglypuff moved up from 8th to 6th.

I wonder what kind of character results we can expect from the next upcoming major Smash 64 tournament, Smash of Ages? What will the tier list look like in another 4 years?

pidgezero_one is a Jigglypuff fanatic who is not at all unhappy with the character's improved position on the tier list. You can follow her on Twitter at @pidgezero_one.

Lol I've mained Kirby since i first played the game.

 

[Sedda]

More balanced than Smash 4..?
Yeah, no.

64 is way more balanced than any other smash game.

There are characters in smash 4 that are so crap tier that aren't even worth using. Not the case in 64.

 

[Darklink401]

If you honestly think about it, here's how the 64 Tier List SHOULD be:

|||||

Samus is not good by any standard, and has the absolute worst recovery in the game (which can be debatable as Link and Captain Falcon's recoveries are also considered the most poor).

Link can trump the bottom five since he has ranged attacks that outclass them by a longshot, has at least some combo capability, added with strong (and unlike the stigma, fast) attacks and a versatile gameplay. He has a poor recovery, so what? He's still mid-tier at least.

Luigi is just better than Samus or Ness, period. He's got too much tools that make him seem like a more viable character than either.

Other than that, the placements of the rest aren't really up for debate.

Lastly, a game so balanced and dug out should NOT need a tier list (hypocritical statement, I know), but only because of the two aforementioned things I said about it being balanced and dug out. Anyone can win tournaments now.





Nothing actually; his moves, unlike what most people think, aren't actually that slow (don't go into frame data on this, just go by the perception of the speed). He might have some slow attacks, but his attack power is beyond comprehension (having extremely powerful attacks). He has a great combo game with Boomerang, an amazing projectile game, but the only hindrance (which is solved in the Japanese version of the game) is his recovery, which is debated to be the worst in the game.

What happens in the Japanese version?

Also can Link grab ledges with his hookshot in this game or no?

And what makes Samus' recovery so bad? It cant be worse than Links, can it? O.o

EDIT:

@ Sedda I'd disagree, even 'low tiers' like Wii Fit, Game and Watch, Charizard etc have a place in competitive. The only doubtful one is Mii Swordfighter, and even then the dude has great options, super underestimated.

 

[Sedda]

If you honestly think about it, here's how the 64 Tier List SHOULD be:

|||||

Samus is not good by any standard, and has the absolute worst recovery in the game (which can be debatable as Link and Captain Falcon's recoveries are also considered the most poor).

Link can trump the bottom five since he has ranged attacks that outclass them by a longshot, has at least some combo capability, added with strong (and unlike the stigma, fast) attacks and a versatile gameplay. He has a poor recovery, so what? He's still mid-tier at least.

Luigi is just better than Samus or Ness, period. He's got too much tools that make him seem like a more viable character than either.

I agree with the bit about Link, but everything else you said is so wrong. You say stuff like "Samus is not good by any standard" and you don't offer any explanation or analysis to support that claim.

Luigi sucks.

 

[pidgezero_one]

What happens in the Japanese version?

imagine brawl jigglypuff but worse

 

[Omar_25]

More balanced than Smash 4..?
Yeah, no.

With smash 64, all characters are viable in competitive play. That's definitely not the same with smash 4.

 

[The Slayer]

Even with this tier list, they're all killing machines of destruction if utilized correctly. Nevertheless, it's great to hear that Smash 64 is even more active than before.

 

[Cobrevolution]

Samus is not good by any standard, and has the absolute worst recovery in the game (which can be debatable as Link and Captain Falcon's recoveries are also considered the most poor).

you're wrong. samus's recovery is about mid tier.

 

[PowerPuffPlayer]

Jigglypuff Should be S tier...

She is our god...

 

[Omegaphoenix]

Dream Land is not a neutral stage. It's a starter stage. There is no such thing as a neutral stage, because unless its dittos, different character take different advantages of the stage.

On topic though, Pika still top tier!

 

[Radical Larry]

What happens in the Japanese version?

Also can Link grab ledges with his hookshot in this game or no?

And what makes Samus' recovery so bad? It cant be worse than Links, can it? O.o

First, Link gains a superior recovery and better combo ability with U-Tilt. Secondly, no, he can't. Third, if you knock Samus at a semi-spike, and get rid of her second jump, she's screwed (if you use her Up B in air, it gains no distance at all).

I agree with the bit about Link, but everything else you said is so wrong. You say stuff like "Samus is not good by any standard" and you don't offer any explanation or analysis to support that claim.

Luigi sucks.

Well, Samus has a poor aerial speed accompanied by her floaty nature, her poor Up B recovery (which her recovery can be gimped) and her heavy weight. She does have a great projectile yes, but it's hard to charge it. She also has some good attacks, but nothing too spectacular.

you're wrong. samus's recovery is about mid tier.

If you aren't gimped by every character, it can be. But remember, using Down B for recovery will only help for so long. When I meant recovery, I meant her recovery move. It gains almost no distance when used.

 

[TheFadedWarrior]

Luigi, Link, Ness, and even DK all lower than Samus?

grate tear list 11/10

 

[pidgezero_one]

Jigglypuff Should be S tier...

She is our god...

Marry me

 

[Radical Larry]

Luigi, Link, Ness, and even DK all lower than Samus?

grate tear list 11/10

Samus doesn't have anything spectacular in her arsenal other than a few good moves and a powerful projectile (which can be attacked, blocked, dodged, absorbed or reflected too easily). DK is a far superior character than Samus, but let's all remember...

It's a community voted tier list. Of course things are going to be wrong.

 

[Xermo]

More balanced than Smash 4..?
Yeah, no.

It's almost as if you've never played 64 before. Hmm.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Samus doesn't have anything spectacular in her arsenal other than a few good moves and a powerful projectile (which can be attacked, blocked, dodged, absorbed or reflected too easily). DK is a far superior character than Samus, but let's all remember...

It's a community voted tier list. Of course things are going to be wrong.

well, only about 25% or less of the people who voted could be considered "randoms", but I digress

 

[Mythra]

The graphical quality of that game didn't allowed Luigi to use his brutal Death Stare, so he is powerless in that game; that explains why he's dead last on the list.

 

[Fluorescent]

64 hype is still real

 

[Mike Voss-Trikstar]

imagine brawl jigglypuff but worse

I destroy with Brawl Jigglypuff. All you have to do is Hungrybox them off the stage since there is basically no room offscreen. Plus it's hilarious when the Brawl players can't handle a Melee strategy when it works in Brawl.

 

[Cobrevolution]

if you knock Samus at a semi-spike, and get rid of her second jump, she's screwed (if you use her Up B in air, it gains no distance at all).

If you aren't gimped by every character, it can be. But remember, using Down B for recovery will only help for so long. When I meant recovery, I meant her recovery move. It gains almost no distance when used.

like i said, you're just wrong

what you mentioned about hitting her at a semi spike is true of every single character. pika included. hit pika with a kirby dtilt at higher percents by the edge and he's easily edgeguarded cuz he has to come at a bad angle. any character knocked off stage without a second jump at a semi spike angle is ****ed, so that's just **** logic.

next, everyone can be gimped. again, bad logic.

and recovery doesn't mean just recovery move. if that's the case, then ness's would be superior to a lot of characters' because of the sheer distance of it.

you have to take horizontal air speed, fall speed, double jump height, sweetspot length, horizontal upb recovery and vertical upb recovery all into account. as well as extra factors (kirby fairing, mario tornado, pika extension, etc).

samus's sweetspot is REALLY good - you can look like you won't grab the ledge from very far away and still manage to snap to it. it has decent startup time and invincibility. the reason it's not amazing is cuz it isn't its j counterpart, which has four times the amount of invincibility frames. you can, however, ledge cancel it with practice and counter edgeguards with good timing.

if we're gonna talk recoveries (in my opinion)
1. pika 2. kirby 3. mario 4. yoshi 5. jpuff 6. samus 7. falcon 8. fox 9. luigi 10. dk 11. link 12. ness

 

[Deleted member]

Marry me

You mean, that one NBC show which got canceled?

Cool update for the tier list, though.

 

[pidgezero_one]

I destroy with Brawl Jigglypuff. All you have to do is Hungrybox them off the stage since there is basically no room offscreen. Plus it's hilarious when the Brawl players can't handle a Melee strategy when it works in Brawl.

I'm a puff main in brawl, but I know the character's severe limitations