Smash 64 ELO Rating

[KoRoBeNiKi]

take that koro

Oh i noticed this

 

[Cobrevolution]

sent the two most recent east coast tourneys to clubdawg

was also thinking, damn, the ONLY good thing about bracket pools at apex is it'll make crafting the elo stuff MUCH easier after the fact

upon completion of apex, what will be tossed out? apex 2012? others? how does this affect ratings? are they going to boost or decrease, overall? will the set wins change or remain the same?

 

[SSB64-Jel]

I sent you the file from the tourney we had at Game Clucks.

 

[Cobrevolution]

chain-ace and chain ace are the same person, and so are sex and sextc. cmu6eh is karajan.

 

[clubbadubba]

Console rankings have been updated, ty cobr and jel for the files. TY cobr for the duplicate spottings, fixed all of them.

To answer cobr's questions:

In general I want to keep these rankings current, which I arbitrarily decided was within 2 years. Thus, after Apex 2014, Apex 2012 will be tossed out. How this will affect the rankings depends entirely on how Apex 2012 matches up with a players other performances. For nubcakes like Kero, his ****ty Apex 2012 performance will be thrown out thus boosting his rating most likely. For others like kefit who had the great win over sensei, his rating will likely take a hit.

In general, over time the ratings will inflate slightly, so eliminating a tournament will tend to decrease overall ratings, though that won't be very noticeable.

The set wins will be as if 2012 never happened.

 

[Battlecow]

outside of tristate most peeps have like one real tourney a year yo

this would make sense if console tourneys were more common but honestly without serious growth it means you'll almost never be using more than 2-3 tournaments to judge someone.

 

[clubbadubba]

after saturday dc/md/va will have had about 5 local tournaments since apex 2012

I've gotten 3 or 4 tournaments from the washington state guys.

tristate obviously tons of tournaments

a few cali ones as well.

But yea if all you're gonna do is go to the 1 major tournament a year then that's all you get unfortuantely. Or people could just host some local tournies

 

[Shears]

I think if someone is going to complain about what they think isn't right or identify flaws in the design, then they should be required to provide a viable solution that doesn't create a secondary problem they would then complain about. All I see is pessimists trying to jump through hoops to find problems instead of being progressive or abstaining. People need to stop caring about things they "don't" care about.

 

[Battlecow]

I think if someone is going to complain about what they think isn't right or identify flaws in the design, then they should be required to provide a viable solution that doesn't create a secondary problem they would then complain about. All I see is pessimists trying to jump through hoops to find problems instead of being progressive or abstaining. People need to stop caring about things they "don't" care about.

My viable solution is: not resetting after two years. I thought that was evident. I'm not attacking anyone, I'm not saying I don't like this project, I'm disagreeing with one aspect of how it's implemented because I think it could be done better.

Local tourneys don't tell us all that much. Generally, we know who beats who, and who beating who 11 times or 3 doesn't really matter. If locals were 30 truly competitive smashers, it would be different--they're usually not more than 5. What you do by eliminating large tournaments--where scenes overlap and there are legitimate questions of skill and more than 2 guys are near the same level--is create valid rankings for each separate scene and dramatically reduce the relevance of elo for determining the skill of a player in one region vs a player from another.

Just my opinion, though.

 

[clubbadubba]

My viable solution is: not resetting after two years. I thought that was evident. I'm not attacking anyone, I'm not saying I don't like this project, I'm disagreeing with one aspect of how it's implemented because I think it could be done better.

Local tourneys don't tell us all that much. Generally, we know who beats who, and who beating who 11 times or 3 doesn't really matter. If locals were 30 truly competitive smashers, it would be different--they're usually not more than 5. What you do by eliminating large tournaments--where scenes overlap and there are legitimate questions of skill and more than 2 guys are near the same level--is create valid rankings for each separate scene and dramatically reduce the relevance of elo for determining the skill of a player in one region vs a player from another.

Just my opinion, though.

I hear you (and I ain't mad)

Thing is, sooooo much changes in 2 years to the point where results don't even make sense any more. Having kero when he was a super noob does nothing to tell us about how good he is now. Its better to have less data than to include bad data.

Also, local tournies, at least in tristate and va/md aren't always the same winner anymore since everyone is getting better. The last 4 tournaments here have had 3 different winners (A$, Nintendude, Star King, gtfo nj/nyc trying to win OUR tournaments). We also get traffic from pa and the tristate area at our 'locals.' Also, with locals, as long as some people have attended big tournaments, it does tell us stuff. Look at Washington, for example. We know kefit is pro, and jel is good but certainly not amazing. There are people in Washington that consistently place higher than jel, but lower than kefit, and that tells us an awful lot I think.

-Bad/Old data = inaccuracy, can't include
-We need more data to be more accurate, but if we don't have accurate data than we just don't have it

 

[Battlecow]

There's some truth to what yo sayin

I still think that for most people old data kinda matters tho

like not for kero but for most peeps

 

[clubbadubba]

added Thanks for playing 5

damn if I had beat nintendude in the first set of GF I would've won the tourney AND leapfrogged him by 1 spot in the rankings. I am so not clutch

 

[Cobrevolution]

that second LA tourney where west covina went should be added but damn if i remember where the thread is/the results bracket

 

[Karajan]

Just noticed I'm the 2nd worst ranked (non-*)

Lol chain-ace how did you get below me?

 

[Nintendude]

Check this out, guys:
http://smashboards.com/rankings/

clubba, since you have all the brackets can you upload them to this?

 

[clubbadubba]

yea I saw that earlier this week. I'm waiting until apex is over to really look into it. I don't actually have all the brackets, I just have text files that I could use to make a bracket (hopefully)

 

[SSB64-Jel]

Are we still using this or are we moving to smash board rankings?

 

[clubbadubba]

I am in the process of converting my old stuff into Tio files and then I will submit them to the rankings. In terms of whether I will discontinue this I'm not sure. The system smashboards is using has its benefits, but also has its issues, it might be interesting to have both. That being said, once we get the stuff up on the rankings maybe this thread should be unstickied. Will hopefully be able to submit everything I have by Monday

Edit: Taking a bit longer than expected to get these files hammered out. Good news is I pretty much only have a handful of smaller tournaments and Apex 2012.

 

[McGodd]

I like the ELO rating more than the smashboards rankings. Maybe there should be some sort of community discussion about the benefits and drawbacks.
Because those are always productive.

 

[KeroKeroppi]

According to the Smashboards Ranking, I'm the best player in the world and Isai is the worst.

uhm

yeah

ELO > SWFR

When I surpass Isai I want to earn it.

 

[Maliki]

How do you even get onto the rankings?

 

[clubbadubba]

i have a bunch of tio files saved on my computer. this weekend i WILL submit them all

 

[MrMarbles]

actually if you look at the points it shows isai as having the most with Superboom a close 2nd and Jamie with the 3rd most so seems like the points are accurate it just doesnt have it ordered by points for some reason.

 

[clubbadubba]

So I just submitted a good number of brackets.

Was unable to submit apex 2014 successfully because the system doesn't handle bracket pools well, sent a message to the powers that be asking what to do about that. It doesn't seem that melee or brawl are up yet either so idk.

Couldn't get Zenith 2013 either because some of the pools are not complete due to forfeits. Included in previous PM, waiting on response.

Also, the system seems to only give you points for how you place in a tournament, not who you beat. Seems weird to me but we'll see how it plays out. It is used by tennis circuit after all.

 

[Cobrevolution]

in any case, are you going to update this thread with the three washington tourneys and apex 2014? i didn't make any brackets cuz apex is daunting

 

[clubbadubba]

yes.

I can do apex. Not sure if I have all of the washington tourneys... Just give me the names/links to results and I'll take care of it. Got a 4.5 hour bus ride tomorrow with nothing else to do so....

Also, got a quick response from the guy answering my questions so that should be handled too

Apex 2014 is done for the ELO ratings, will post new results tonight that still include Apex 2012. Later this week I will remove Apex 2012 as it is now over 2 years old.

 

[clubbadubba]

ELO has been updated to include Apex 2014.

I dunno about the 3 washington tournaments, but if you look at console events in the 2nd post that is everything I have

 

[SSB64-Jel]

ELO has been updated to include Apex 2014.

I dunno about the 3 washington tournaments, but if you look at console events in the 2nd post that is everything I have

Link to last GC Feb 8th http://smashboards.com/threads/gameclucks-monthly-ssbm-pm-ssb-mar-8th-2014.346585/

Link to GC Jan 4th http://smashboards.com/threads/gameclucks-super-smash-bros-tournament-jan-4th-lynnwood-wa-‎.344921/

If you need others I will have to go digging.

 

[The Star King]

It seems I'm confirmed better on controller.

 

[clubbadubba]

thanks jel will get to those if I haven't already.

It seems I'm confirmed better on controller.

was wondering whether I should keep up the alternate controller personas or not. Also its probably mainly due to not playing enough games on keyboard yet, same thing with kikoushi/moyashi who are noticeably underrated it would seem (though when apex 2012 goes away kikoushi will jump boom). But you did do real well that one tournament on controller.

 

[breakthrough]

Console Ratings:
55. jimmy joe 1979.0 (24,17)
*152. jimmyjoe 1659.0 (1,2)

Should probably combine these.

Also, seems as though I'm not listed in the online or the joint rankings. Not exactly complaining, since I went 0-2 in the only online tourney I played (I think Gav hosted it? I lost to MrMarbles and NTA), so I would be placed pretty terribly anyway.

If this is because the list is outdated, that makes sense. For some reason I thought I remembered being on the online list after that tourney but I'm probably mistaken.

 

[Shears]

I was thinking about it and I like the ELO rating better. I haven't looked into the smashboards rankings enough, but I'm guessing you just get points for placement. A guy that wins a tournament of 32 scrubs is going to get just as much as a guy that wins a tournament of 32 pros. Clearly the guy who wins the scrub tournament isn't as good as the guy who wins the pro tournament yet they both have the same smashboards rank. With the ELO ratings, its not about how you place but who you beat. Granted, it requires there to be the six degrees of separation idea, but if their tournament is being uploaded, then they've played someone who has played someone where everyone is connected to everyone (the ELO communism hive).

 

[clubbadubba]

online ratings have not been kept up for a while because people didn't care, including players and TOs.

already knew about jimmyjoe, just waiting to see if any other names are messed up before I fix
I think Zenyore and Mr bushido both are up as well.

Both systems have merit. remember Elo will inflate the more you play so boom has an inherent edge on Japanese players for that reason

 

[McGodd]

151 Mc godd shouldn't have a space in it. Brackets in the future will have that corrected so I fIgured fixing a space is easier than combining names.

 

[Cobrevolution]

ruoka's on the list twice too. so ruoka, jimmyjoe and zenyore. i think chain ace got fixed.

how is 0000000000 even at a 1985? had a bye, won a forfeit to puff daddy, then lost to combo blaze and to amida right away. how's that throw you up 400 some points?

i also don't see 4 wins and losses for meta? unless i'm missing him in another tourney and didn't know he was at one.

 

[clubbadubba]

meta has played in washington tournaments in the past

didn't know 000000000000000 vs puffdaddy was a forfeit so its included as a win which will be fixed. Also had 0000000000 beating combo blaze woops.

will fix those 3 people plus the 0000000000 mistake this weekend, and i suppose its time for a map update as well

 

[clubbadubba]

"this weekend" lol

updated with fixes. Will leave Apex 2012 in for a bit more since the fixes weren't in, but soon it will be gone forever (or until it gets put back in)

 

[Karajan]

The japanese have a different rating system.

The ranking is per character, so hypothetically one person can have up to 12 rankings. I think they only do up to secondary though.
There are 7 tiers.
Everyone starts in tier 3 ?
Everyone has 0 points.
You agree to have a match with someone else. There are special rules to the matches: You must start the match by both people hanging on opposite ledges on DL, with a 3rd person pressing start. 3rd person is probably a judge.
When you beat someone in the same or higher tier as you, you get a point.
When you lose to someone in the same or lower tier as you, you lose a point.
Every 10 days you do not have one of these matches in your tier or above, you lose a point.
When you get +3 points, you move up to the next tier, and your points go back to 0
When you get -3 points, you move down to a lower tier, and your points go back to 0
You can opt out of the ranking system (e.g., Jousuke doesn't participate)

They have a website: http://dansma.sakura.ne.jp/player.php

 

[clubbadubba]

damn their smash scene is so organized...

 

[mixa]

You can opt out of the ranking system (e.g., Jousuke doesn't participate)

cuz he was losing

LMAOOOOOOOOOO

scrub samus mains