Well talking about how Vegeta was and wasn't handled is another matter entirely. I was under the impression the conversation was a what if statement about what would happen if we assumed DBZ was a real story and Vegeta was removed from the Freeza saga equation, with nothing else changed. Nothing about writing or narrative purpose, just direct cause and effect. If you want to talk about what could happen if Toriyama wanted to do things differently, well, absolutely anything could happen. And feel free to talk about that but that's not something I care to discuss. I thought Vegeta was handled very well but I don't really give a damn.
That's still not what I mean. Removing him from the Freeza saga as is wouldn't make much of a difference. He was still pretty much useless overall or somebody does it better. That's the overall point. Yes, he was there. No, he was not necessary at all. The fact I thought he was handled poorly is not the same situation.
I took it out of context because there was noting in your post clarifying when you said battles you meant card battles. The context wasn't established. Anyways, it's not blatantly said why she's so good at the card game(which I like. I'd rather have subtlety than everything explained outright), but it's not too hard to put the pieces together and it does make sense, and it's pretty important to her character. She was fiercely antisocial, locked herself away from the world and the pressure she felt she was under, and she picked up the card game and it became a form of escape for her eventually became an obsession. Also once she became good she felt the need to become the best because being an elite at something was a crucial crutch for the cold elitist badass facade that she desired to build up for herself.
Yes, I realized I forgot to say that. But it's still ultimately what I meant, and I should've been more specific. I still think it was dumb they refused to show why she was good at it. She just... was good at it. Nothing more.
Plus there is a lot to be said for just plain unexplainable natural talent. I've had people totally eclipse me in days in games that I've been playing diligently for years. And I mean...it's the digimon TCG. The skill ceiling isn't exactly unbelievably hard to reach anyway.
It makes for damn poor storytelling to have "naturally good characters". I don't care if it exists in real life, it's a poor thing to do in fiction. The characters with that kind of thing feel extremely boring. Explain why they're good, even if it's not right away. That feels way more realistic. People aren't that beyond naturally talented anyway. Not at card games. At video games, it's just they're better at reflexes or memorization than another person. It's just a different basic talent some have. Far more natural than some video game god from the day they were born.
I was not implying you were saying you don't think she should be a digidesdined or that you were saying having a digivice means anything(other than being the "definition" of a digidedined). I'm saying you're presenting her as an exception to a distinction that doesn't actually mean anything. Saying someone is a digidesdined doesn't mean anything except they have a digivice which as you just said doesn't mean anything so being determined to talk about things specifically in terms of digidedined is meaningless. It's a pointless categorization.
There is nothing pointless here. I didn't like she was the only jerk Digidestined with no good reason for why she was a jerk. She just was. No corruption(which justifies it). I don't find "bad childhood" as an excuse. It's boring and cliche. Being corrupted actually means she definitely had a heart, it was just taken away. She stands out in this regard since every Digidestined was overall good at heart outside of being corrupted.
None of the rest of the category matters. Overall, you're seriously taking my statement further than the whole point of it. I didn't like that type of character, and she doesn't match up to the other Digidestined who I felt were better handled, especially for the more "jerk" types.(again, it's specific to the Digidestined category and I clearly made the assertion I'm talking about digidestined. So of course it's a category, because I was saying she was the stand out in a category. I don't understand why this is so weird here.)
Woah woah woah woah slow down there. You're going off in a completely different direction from what I was talking about, or rather, adding a lot to it. I'm not talking about the in universe connections or anything that has an actual, tangible effect in the show. I am talking 100% about writer inserted symbolism that is for the viewer to catch from the other side of the 4th wall. Beelzemon doesn't have to be aligned evil at all for a writer to use a character based off of Beelzebub for satanic metaphors (hell he doesn't even have to be Beelebub. You can use anything as a satanic metaphore if you know what you're doing), and two digimon don't have to have any actual connection within digimon to be used in symbolic association. It has more to do with the cultural history behind the influences in the digimon's designs than anything actually to do with digimon at all. I also wasn't implying that Jeri using the card had any effect on anything in the actual show whatsoever, it was just a little thing slid in there for symbolic effect. In the actual show they are just cards, but if we view the show from the outside as a piece of art each individual card could have any sort of meaning the author wanted to give them at that exact moment.
I don't believe there was any symbolism at all. There was literally no consequences that can be tied to using that particular card at all. It might be if say, an actual Devimon killed Leomon or a LadyDevimon showed up, or they bothered to mention that Juri was messing with evil(which was not mentioned in any way). It's purely a coincidence due to a similar thing happening before, except for the fact that it fails to explain that "messing with evil" existed at all. Pure coincidence.
I...have no idea whatsoever where your discussion about whether digimon have alignments or not came from. Yes it's pretty clear that a digimon's species does not determine that digimon's character? I don't believe anyone was arguing otherwise. Unless that was just something you wanted to get off your chest.
It's part of why I don't believe any symbolism existed. There was no "alignment" to break. It's just a card.
Also it's a bit tangential keep in mind that the cross series and cross medium continuity in Digimon is...sketchy at best. There's really no reason for something that is ture in one season not to directly conflict with something that is true in another season or one of the games ect.. And indeed contradictions also arise.
Except Tamers made clear references to the previous seasons, so they were connected. It might've just been the dub, but they talk of the actual Adventure 1 and 2 as a TV show. It was treated like an alternate universe. And it still has continuity overall. Xros Wars made it apparent during the second season when all the main heroes(and sometimes the lancer) showed up for an episode or two.
It also might be worth noting that the director of Tamers(who apparently had a lot of control over the project) was essentially a guest director who is not typically in any way involved with Digimon or anything really remotely similar and he probably cared a lot less about the greater Digimon canon than, say, a lot of fans do. Also his works tend to feature absolutely ridiculous amounts of symbolism.
Even so, the LadyDevimon bit showed no signs of symbolism whatsoever. Now, other stuff does, like with the Megidramon digivolution, as it showed anger does not make for a good digivolution, but true evil. (never mind Megidramon is one of the Four Holy Dragons, but as said, he was not knowledgeable about all the canon). He did get some things right, like the guardians with Quinlongmon and the other 3 Sovereign. Those were an actual specific group and even the dub played that correctly. Also, many Digimon are naturally violent even in the Adventure 1 and 2 series, which they didn't act all that different here. I'd say he kept up the idea of how the series works extremely well. Also, it was well known that Armor Digimon always had alternate levels and could often come from regular Digimon without using a DigiEgg.(to note, an Armor level is only achieved with Armor Digivolution. Actually digivolving into that Digimon without a DigiEgg is a regular Digivolution and completely normal). Also, they avoid this beautifully with X-Antibody Armors. They are treated as a regular level instead of an Armor period.
I know a went off on some tangents, but I do like dropping fun information. Anyway, as I said, LadyDevimon fails to acknowledge it could be some kind of symbolism, but the Megidramon bit does manage to show how a dark heart can corrupt others. Also, if you want to note the Leomon thing better, from what I remember, every version was defeated by a humanoid opponent(Savers I forget who defeated Saber, though). SaberLeomon from MetalEtemon, Leomon by Beezlemon, IceLeomon/Panjyamon from Agunimon, SaberLeomon from well, this is a partial exception, since it was RizeGreymon, Marcus, and a Gizmon, BancheoLeomon from ShineGreymon Burst Mode, BantyoLeomon from ShineGreymon, MadLeomon from Shoutmon X2(who is still pretty humanoid overall). I do not remember who beat Marsmon later on in Xros Wars, though.
I did have to check a video to remember the Savers defeats.
(yes, it's a funny coincidence)
