Smash 4 Social Thread 3.0

[Kenith]

Hey... what about me?

You hate Ghirahim.
EDIT: Also I forgot.

 

[Frostwraith]

http://legendsoflocalization.com/what-does-japan-think-of-little-mac-in-smash-bros/

Would it be an overstatement to say Little Mac is "reverse Dark Pit", considering this?

 

[praline]

You hate Ghirahim.

That's no excuse.

 

[Bedoop]

http://legendsoflocalization.com/what-does-japan-think-of-little-mac-in-smash-bros/

Would it be an overstatement to say Little Mac is "reverse Dark Pit", considering this?

Eeeyup. :I

 

[RamOne]

http://legendsoflocalization.com/what-does-japan-think-of-little-mac-in-smash-bros/

Would it be an overstatement to say Little Mac is "reverse Dark Pit", considering this?

I thought we had already decided that?

 

[Kenith]

That's no excuse.

You're right, there's no excuse.

 

[xLemmy_KoopaX]

http://legendsoflocalization.com/what-does-japan-think-of-little-mac-in-smash-bros/

Would it be an overstatement to say Little Mac is "reverse Dark Pit", considering this?

I don't think so.
But there are some differences:
While Dark Pit is mainly hated because of "Sakurai's bias" and being a clone, Little Mac was disliked by people in Japan who thought he was niche or bland.

 

[Frostwraith]

I thought we had already decided that?

Oh, I just stumbled across this article again and looked at it on a different way than I did back when Little Mac was revealed.

You know, with the Dark Pit rants and all. Lucina was also a heavily requested character there.

Anyway, I agree on moving on this subject.

 

[Kenith]

You know, with the Dark Pit rants and all. Lucina was also a heavily requested character there.

It's good to know I was one of few really pushing for Lucina over Chrom.

 

[Frostwraith]

I don't think so.
But there are some differences:
While Dark Pit is mainly hated because of "Sakurai's bias" and being a clone, Little Mac was disliked by people in Japan who thought he was niche or bland.

I'm aware of those different reasons for the hate.

I was less focused on the reasons themselves, but on the parallels between the two.

Both are characters that are heavily popular in one side (to the point of being deemed "worthy" of being in Smash) that are majorly disliked in the other.

From what little I know, I don't think the Japanese give a **** about Dark Pit being a clone.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

@ Yomi's Biggest Fan I just bought the Mewtwo trophy.

 

[Kenith]

Dark Pit is literally Black Pit. He deserves absolutely no negative attention. Neither does Dr. Mario and Lucina.
The clone haters should switch their hate to someone like Duck Hunt, who actually took up development time.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's good to know I was one of few really pushing for Lucina over Chrom.

I was pushing Robin a bit more myself. Lucina I thought was going to be an alt. Albeit, I really wanted a non-Awakening rep with a unique weapon. Robin is more than close enough for the "unique weapon" bit.

Also, Ghirahim is awesome(Tingle's still my top choice, but I cannot deny the fabulous one credit where it's due~)

 

[Frostwraith]

Dark Pit is literally Black Pit. He deserves absolutely no negative attention. Neither does Dr. Mario and Lucina.
The clone haters should switch their hate to someone like Duck Hunt, who actually took up development time.

Hating characters in the context of a crossover is just... petty.

 

[Space Stranger]

The only clone a don't really like is Roy, but that's because of his game (like in Melee, he's mediocre in his own game).

 

[RamOne]

Hating characters in the context of a crossover is just... petty.

Hating characters at all is petty. Maybe it's just me, but I think you should only hate people when they have done something horrible to you or someone close to you.

 

[Kenith]

I was pushing Robin a bit more myself. Lucina I thought was going to be an alt. Albeit, I really wanted a non-Awakening rep with a unique weapon. Robin is more than close enough for the "unique weapon" bit.
Also, Ghirahim is awesome(Tingle's still my top choice, but I cannot deny the fabulous one credit where it's due~)

Well, I was torn. I knew from a game design standpoint, and also by merit Robin was the ideal character to represent Fire Emblem Awakening. There was so much going for them in moveset alone.
I wanted Lucina more, however, because I like her. She's the first Awakening character I ever knew anything about. So while I supported Robin and Lucina, I wanted Lucina way more.
Of course, I get both, so I am already overjoyed with the roster (for the most part, as there is no Ghirahim, and that is a travesty)

Hating characters in the context of a crossover is just... petty.

Well, asking someone who hates low-effort clones to not hate anything at all is a bit too much.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Normally I like clones but I just didn't have a connection to Dark Pit like I do with a few others (I've still yet to play Uprising, regrettably...).

I also didn't really want a repeat of how Roy was handled in Melee, so while I don't hate Lucin'as inclusion, I'm not all that fond of how they handled her either. There are just certain characters whom I don't think should have a clone.

 

[Frostwraith]

Just like how Lucina is the most popular female character, the most popular male character is Chrom.

Robin is close to Lucina and Chrom in popularity, though.

This from a Japanese FEA poll. I don't have the link, though.

 

[Space Stranger]

Just like how Lucina is the most popular female character, the most popular male character is Chrom.

Robin is close to Lucina and Chrom in popularity, though.

This from a Japanese FEA poll. I don't have the link, though.

I remember when I lurked on GameFAQs there was a vocal minority calling for Tharja and Owain's inclusion...*shudders*

 

[R0Y]

Damn New 3DS... I wonder when it'll be out in North America/Europe and when Xenoblade will be available. Exclusive Majora's Mask 3D would also push me over the edge. Only if both come out on game cards though.

I like the standard sized New 3DS, it still has 20 percent larger screens than the OG, along with the face plates and (hopefully also outside Japan) coloured face buttons.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

@ Rocket Raccoon What was your reaction? Did you get the feels like I've did?

On a side note, I've just got done reading both Boku no Hero Academia and Hinomaru Zumo after wondering why these two were so successful in Jump after a month or so. I can see that they both have some potential to be a success this gen, especially with their unique concepts and refreshing characters. You got yourself that hot blooded sports manga that actually revolves around real fights with our own body (Hinomaru Zumo) and then there's the more average shonen that revolves around being a hero that's on par with anyone from Marvel (Boku no Hero Academia). These two would feel right at home in the magazine while their protagonists would be worthy additions in the next J-Stars Victory VS.

 

[RamOne]

I remember when I lurked on GameFAQs there was a vocal minority calling for Tharja and Owain's inclusion...*shudders*

Well, considering this link (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/fe/kakusei_bk/kekka/index.html) it makes sense.
Considering this

however isn't.

 

[Kenith]

Just like how Lucina is the most popular female character, the most popular male character is Chrom.
Robin is close to Lucina and Chrom in popularity, though.
This from a Japanese FEA poll. I don't have the link, though.

I know the one.
It's amazing how vastly different general popularity polls are from Smash character polls.
For example, on many polls I've seen, Charizard actually beats out Mewtwo in popularity.
Robin was rarely requested for Smash, but is evidently very popular to Fire Emblem fans.
Whereas Chrom was extremely requested. How many of those people do you think actually played Awakening and are just assuming he would be chosen?

Besides, Lucina's more popular anyway. Does Chrob have an action figured (that hasn't been released)?

No.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

@ Rocket Raccoon What was your reaction? Did you get the feels like I've did?

On a side note, I've just got done reading both Boku no Hero Academia and Hinomaru Zumo after wondering why these two were so successful in Jump after a month or so. I can see that they both have some potential to be a success this gen, especially with their unique concepts and refreshing characters. You got yourself that hot blooded sports manga that actually revolves around real fights with our own body (Hinomaru Zumo) and then there's the more average shonen that revolves around being a hero that's on par with anyone from Marvel (Boku no Hero Academia). These two would feel right at home in the magazine while their protagonists would be worthy additions in the next J-Stars Victory VS.

I yelled Noooooo!

 

[Space Stranger]

I know the one.
It's amazing how vastly different general popularity polls are from Smash character polls.
For example, on many polls I've seen, Charizard actually beats out Mewtwo in popularity.
Robin was rarely requested for Smash, but is evidently very popular to Fire Emblem fans.
Whereas Chrom was extremely requested. How many of those people do you think actually played Awakening and are just assuming he would be chosen?

Besides, Lucina's more popular anyway. Does Chrob have an action figured (that hasn't been released)?

No.

I need that figure in my life so it can be violated by my Revoltech Woody.

 

[Admiral Pit]

http://legendsoflocalization.com/what-does-japan-think-of-little-mac-in-smash-bros/

Would it be an overstatement to say Little Mac is "reverse Dark Pit", considering this?

Well, yes, and no. It is true that many of us are not fond of him, but unlike Japan with not knowing much on Mac, most of us know who Dark Pit is. The general classifications on why many dislike him are between one of these reasons:
-the stupid "Sakurai bias" routine,
-the fact that he's a glorified clone rather than unique like many of us wanted him to be
-those who don't think KI deserves more reps than some other franchises. DK and Metroid are mostly brought up in this case.

It's a curse I'm afraid. I'm slowly getting used to him myself, but still annoyed that regular Pit isn't getting much love at all. It's almost like the clones are superior to the regulars, even though it's probably too early to assume that yet.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I know the one.
It's amazing how vastly different general popularity polls are from Smash character polls.
For example, on many polls I've seen, Charizard actually beats out Mewtwo in popularity.
Robin was rarely requested for Smash, but is evidently very popular to Fire Emblem fans.
Whereas Chrom was extremely requested. How many of those people do you think actually played Awakening and are just assuming he would be chosen?

Besides, Lucina's more popular anyway. Does Chrob have an action figured (that hasn't been released)?

No.

But but but but, he has an ***pad!

 

[Substitution]

@ Substitution
MisterVideoGaming
That's right!

Why does MisterVideoGaming speak in third person?

 

[FlareHabanero]

I really need the Wii U version quickly when it comes out. I've been losing either because of tiers, lag, luck, me SDing, or just anger taking over. That GCC would make me instantly better, provided it don't break.

Are you positive it's not just you messing up? Because I'm getting the impression of excuses from some of those, like "tiers" (more specifics would be nice). It sort of sounds like you're being too hasty with your matches judging by the stuff your saying, but I wouldn't know.

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

Dark Pit is literally Black Pit. He deserves absolutely no negative attention. Neither does Dr. Mario and Lucina.
The clone haters should switch their hate to someone like Duck Hunt, who actually took up development time.

But Duck Hunt Duo is a great addition tho

 

[WolfieXVII ❂]

I'm so salty, Gamestop told me Smash won't be in stock until Friday.
The wait begins.

 

[Frostwraith]

I know the one.
It's amazing how vastly different general popularity polls are from Smash character polls.
For example, on many polls I've seen, Charizard actually beats out Mewtwo in popularity.
Robin was rarely requested for Smash, but is evidently very popular to Fire Emblem fans.
Whereas Chrom was extremely requested. How many of those people do you think actually played Awakening and are just assuming he would be chosen?

Besides, Lucina's more popular anyway. Does Chrob have an action figured (that hasn't been released)?

No.

Figma (the brand that made that Lucina figure) also made figures for the following Nintendo characters: Link, Samus, Pit and Dark Pit.

They also make figures of popular anime characters. Kirito and Asuna from SAO or Eren, Mikasa, Armin and Levi from Attack on Titan come to mind.

Anyway, given the general audience Smash has, it's fairly obvious they go with overall popularity.

Well, yes, and no. It is true that many of us are not fond of him, but unlike Japan with not knowing much on Mac, most of us know who Dark Pit is. The general classifications on why many dislike him are between one of these reasons:
-the stupid "Sakurai bias" routine,
-the fact that he's a glorified clone rather than unique like many of us wanted him to be
-those who don't think KI deserves more reps than some other franchises. DK and Metroid are mostly brought up in this case.

It's a curse I'm afraid. I'm slowly getting used to him myself, but still annoyed that regular Pit isn't getting much love at all. It's almost like the clones are superior to the regulars, even though it's probably too early to assume that yet.

Quoting myself:

I'm aware of those different reasons for the hate.

I was less focused on the reasons themselves, but on the parallels between the two.

Both are characters that are heavily popular in one side (to the point of being deemed "worthy" of being in Smash) that are majorly disliked in the other.

From what little I know, I don't think the Japanese give a **** about Dark Pit being a clone.

The reasons for the outrage are different, but there's definitely a parallel.

Dark Pit is nowhere near as popular in the West as it is in Japan. After all, he did rank high in popularity polls and had merchandising of him (the Figma figure I mentioned above) there.

Besides the clone and Sakurai bias reasoning, Kid Icarus isn't a popular franchise (hence the representation stuff) and the character archetype for Dark Pit is generally seen as overused or cliché'd.

 

[Kenith]

But Duck Hunt Duo is a great addition tho

You're missing the point.
I love Duck Hunt. I also love Lucina, Dr. Mario, and given some time, maybe even Dark Pit.

But those three are low-effort clones. Why should they be blamed for the absence of characters when Duck Hunt, or any other non-clone character is a full-fledged fighter who took a lot of development time?

 

[Substitution]

You're missing the point.
I love Duck Hunt. I also love Lucina, Dr. Mario, and given some time, maybe even Dark Pit.

But those three are low-effort clones. Why should they be blamed for the absence of characters when Duck Hunt, or any other non-clone character is a full-fledged fighter who took a lot of development time?

Because Duck Hunt (like the other newcomers) don't feel like filler as opposed to the clones.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Are you positive it's not just you messing up? Because I'm getting the impression of excuses from some of those, like "tiers" (more specifics would be nice). It sort of sounds like you're being too hasty with your matches judging by the stuff your saying, but I wouldn't know.

I'm very certain that the cover of my 3ds circle pad came off on the first day, and something about it sometimes makes me incorrectly angle Palutena's Up-B when going to the left, causing me to SD sometimes. At the same time, 3ds controls are definitely nothing like the GCC's, so there's also that, and I know I ain't the only one.
As for tiers, I always complain about this, and I can't fix it. I rather not talk about a bit of it atm. It's best if I don't take much of my anger about that here.

@ Frostwraith
A sad truth. I myself have issues with the "Dark > regular" character routine, which was also why I despised when dark/shadow versions of characters were being requested so often. It's best if I don't get into it much as it's been one of my greatest peeves, or at least was before the full roster was shown.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You're missing the point.
I love Duck Hunt. I also love Lucina, Dr. Mario, and given some time, maybe even Dark Pit.

But those three are low-effort clones. Why should they be blamed for the absence of characters when Duck Hunt, or any other non-clone character is a full-fledged fighter who took a lot of development time?

I agree. A character that took a ton of time is more logical to hate on. Not that constant hate should be spewed either way. Also, I've seen Duck Hunt get a severe amount of praise by many just because he's a great retro rep. Many do forget he's the Dog/Duck/Wild Gunman too. The dog is easy to hate. The rest, not so much.

And yeah, hating on last minute includsions is bad enough, but blaming them for weeding out non-clones is just ignorance. Especially after you were told why they exist. :|

 

[TewnLeenk]

@legendofrob1 I got a new avatar for you here, buddy. Mega Beedrill was officially confirmed today.

 

[Knuckles the Knuckles]

You're missing the point.
I love Duck Hunt. I also love Lucina, Dr. Mario, and given some time, maybe even Dark Pit.

But those three are low-effort clones. Why should they be blamed for the absence of characters when Duck Hunt, or any other non-clone character is a full-fledged fighter who took a lot of development time?

The problem is, your average Joe doesnt know that, and will hate on clones BECAUSE they are low effort characters.

 

[FlareHabanero]

It's a curse I'm afraid. I'm slowly getting used to him myself, but still annoyed that regular Pit isn't getting much love at all. It's almost like the clones are superior to the regulars, even though it's probably too early to assume that yet.

Actually, it's half and half. Characters like Toon Link and Lucina are supposidly better, while Dr. Mario and Dark Pit are worse. From my experience at least, I do find Pit better by a slight margin due to the maneuverbiliy of Palutena's Arrow working better then Silver Arrow and I prefer the consistency of the Upperdash Arm better. Not sure about the other clones, it's all based on word of mouth. Though I do use Dr. Mario and Mario equally, and use Marth more then Lucina, but don't take my words as status quo.