Smash 1.1.5 Ganon Changes

[Swoops]

Some attack (Maybe U-air?)
Damage 10/10/9 -> 12/12/11

Another Unknown attack
Damage -> 9/9/7 -> 11/11/9

These are his custom Wizard Kicks (Drop/Wizard Assault)

 

[Rob_TH]

I posted some things on my twitter and yes, DA into fair works pretty fine on many characters.
https://twitter.com/RobTH_/status/710135147530686465
I tested it against DK, Mario, Sheik, Fox. All of them have some % where the sourspotted DA will combo into some aerial, most likely uair, which works unbelivably fine now.

I guess these combos are possible from 60% on, they work with double jump at higher percents too (150 or so)

 

[mgleed]

>when you hear ganon gets DA footstool combos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr3m_QOgpfE

Gungnir doesn't upload a video for 6 months, and then puts up this? haha

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Some attack (Maybe U-air?)
Damage 10/10/9 -> 12/12/11

Another Unknown attack
Damage -> 9/9/7 -> 11/11/9

Tell me more.

 

[LoveExpert]

Gungnir doesn't upload a video for 6 months, and then puts up this? haha

can you blame him? he is just to busy in the training room

 

[A2ZOMG]

Tell me more.

DownB customs

 

[Krakhead]

Tell me more.

Yep, Looks to be customs.

Wizard Dropkick: 9/9/7

Wizard Assault: 12/12/11

RIP Up air changes unless something breaks through.

 

[King9999]

I didn't notice any changes to U-air when I tried it earlier. I compared it to 1.1.4 on my 3DS and didn't notice anything.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Yep, Looks to be customs.

Wizard Dropkick: 9/9/7

Wizard Assault: 12/12/11

RIP Up air changes unless something breaks through.

I love your profile picture man. Sorry for digressing lol.
Are jab conversions a thing or not?

 

[Theosmeo]

I love your profile picture man. Sorry for digressing lol.
Are jab conversions a thing or not?

Jab > wizkick if they have actively awful DI

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Edited post.

 

[AnEventHorizon]

Shockwave always did 8% guys. You're looking at the start up frames on Kurogane.

So we're sure that jab is frame 7 now? Was hoping for frame 6 but I guess we made progress ^_^. Also I found it almost impossible to get that 6% hitbox on the jab. Was always getting 8% or 10%.

Interesting stuff on the increased Flame Choke range...

I was only able to get the 6% hitbox by having a CPU Zelda set to jump and jabbing while she basically landing inside of Ganondorf.

I can't tell if the damage buff on wizkick makes it not punishable on hit at low percents (used to be a problem with dthrow at 0% -> wizkick

Data mining shows that the X position of Jab has changed: X position 12/18/7 -> 11/19/7 Though I'm unsure what the numbers mean. Does the jab hit new people after flame choke because the hitbox has been lowered slightly?

No one has been able to confirm the angle change on uair everyone has been talking about.

 

[Krakhead]

Wizard kick is now a very potent edgeguard tool if kept fresh

Tested on 3ds, so numbers may be a bit off but its a general % range.

Strong hit kills Mario at 120% at edge of FD

165% at center of FD

110% range even with the weak hit.

And with rage, this becomes even scarier, could net safe kills offstage in the 90s

 

[Theosmeo]

Could Dthrow at the ledge be a 50-50?

DI out and die from wizkick, DI in and be Nair/Uaired?

 

[jordimarcel]

Edited post.

You still have the Uair angle change on the OP. Is that confirmed? I haven't seen anyone back it up.

 

[Jiom]

I didn't notice any changes to U-air when I tried it earlier. I compared it to 1.1.4 on my 3DS and didn't notice anything.

Did you test this against cpu in training mode? When I tested there seemed to be a noticeable difference in angle, maybe cpu got Change to how they DI. If you still have 1.1.4 maybe you can try to test for me?

 

[Jyro]

Early hitbox of Wizkick beats out many projectiles including: mario's fireball, luigi fireball (late), toon links uncharged arrows, thunderjolt(mid-late hit); although timing can be strict. Testing must be done, but in general the early fresh 14% hitbox should beat out anything 5% or less I think. However with staling this shouldn't be so useful.
I'm also finding the reduced endlag of the dash attack to be very helpful to approach more safely, and following up dash attack early and late hits are now easier (perhaps more options?)

Edit- early WK beats out diddy throwing banana?! (only fresh/ not close to a smash throw)
Edit2- early WK beats out uncharged paralyzer

 

[A2ZOMG]

The problem with that is the 14% hitbox is basically inside Ganon, and that's really awkward to space vs the vast majority of projectiles. So you shouldn't use Wizkick to beat those projectiles anyway when DA can do the same thing.

 

[WwwWario]

I can't remember exactly who I faced today (May have been a Falcon player, can't remember, I played a lot of matches), but Wizard's Foot killed this character ON STAGE close to the ledge at around 104%...!

 

[Darkshadovv]

We may never get Melee Jab, Wizkick, or Dark Dive restored to form, or PM Wizkick power which negated almost everything, but the changes are more than welcome.

Now, all we need is magnet hands on normal grab. I don't see why they put it on Flame Choke over normal grab.

Data mining shows that the X position of Jab has changed: X position 12/18/7 -> 11/19/7 Though I'm unsure what the numbers mean. Does the jab hit new people after flame choke because the hitbox has been lowered slightly?

Don't quote me on this but from what I heard, the sourspot is shifted backward, and the sweetspot is shifted forward, meaning that the sourspot covers blindspots on Ganondorf's body better and sweetspot has slightly more range.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

So how does the Flame Choke grab box affects the move overall?
I'm more of a visual learner, so if someone could upload a clip I would appreciate it.

 

[LoveExpert]

>when you hear wiz kick beats lemons http://i.imgur.com/P2RZsM9.jpg

 

[[BROF]]

I've been getting the flame choke to register in tech chasing situations where the range wouldn't been enough before.
2.2 units increase is huge and its showing. Hopefully we get our hitboxes visualized soon to help with this.
Flame Choke followups have been shaken up due to the new FC grabbox and the new jab as well.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

A2ZOMG what do you conclude of the new jab?

Oos worthy?

 

[adom4]

A2ZOMG what do you conclude of the new jab?

Oos worthy?

idk if oos worthy but i am in love with our new jab, we finally have a move we can throw out just because & it can seriously rack up damage over time.

 

[mgleed]

Ray_Kalm http://smashboards.com/threads/1-1-5-patch-notes.433162/ is now current and, as far as I can tell, comprehensive. Could you modify the OP to reflect these changes?

 

[A2ZOMG]

A2ZOMG what do you conclude of the new jab?

Oos worthy?

Given how much safer it is, you might as well throw it out to pressure people.

 

[TM 023]

So, I was in the lab with his Dash Attack, and arround 50%, I could hit sour DA + Dair Sheik near the ledge to score a kill. But the combo marker on training mode didn't show this as a true combo. Can you guys analyze this?

Here's a demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I--LYOdz6Jw

 

[DarkDeity15]

So, I was in the lab with his Dash Attack, and arround 50%, I could hit sour DA + Dair Sheik near the ledge to score a kill. But the combo marker on training mode didn't show this as a true combo. Can you guys analyze this?

Here's a demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I--LYOdz6Jw

Just by looking at it I can already tell this doesn't work.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Speaking of labbing, a tipman reset > dash attack > fair is something I was playing around with if you're into reset shenanigans.

At low %s DA into jab or you can try to grab to continue the chain with dthrow.

At high %s probably best just to fsmash still lol.

edit: Whoa, hold on... can someone else try weak hit DA to footstool at low-mid%? Because this feels like it might be a thing

 

[TM 023]

Just by looking at it I can already tell this doesn't work.

Oh well. But to be sure, I'll be testing this tomorrow.

 

[WorstGanonWorld]

It could be pretty good if you read the airdodge but I´m almost 100% sure it doesn´t true combo

 

[metroidfan987]

Why is Ganon's air speed so bad? It is in the bottom 3. That makes no sense for a character who is significantly lighter than Bowser. That horrendous air speed is the main thing preventing Ganon from being a mid-high tier threat. All his other attributes are solid imo.

 

[Garo]

I hear you. If I should name just one aspect of current Ganon that I'm dissatisfied with, It'd probably be his air speed. Seeing as 1.1.5 buffed Samus' and Charizard's air speeds though, I don't think it's impossible that a future patch could improve Ganondorf's air speed somewhat, especially when you consider that almost every patch thus far has buffed him in some way.

 

[JackyT]

yes, i didn't follow every patch closely, but ganon did get slight buffs at every patch, right?

 

[adom4]

yes, i didn't follow every patch closely, but ganon did get slight buffs at every patch, right?

There were 2 patches were he didn't get touched.

 

[jordimarcel]

I hear you. If I should name just one aspect of current Ganon that I'm dissatisfied with, It'd probably be his air speed. Seeing as 1.1.5 buffed Samus' and Charizard's air speeds though, I don't think it's impossible that a future patch could improve Ganondorf's air speed somewhat, especially when you consider that almost every patch thus far has buffed him in some way.

Do you think there will be more patches?

 

[WwwWario]

His air speed is one of the two things I want to be buffed.

The other one is his grab. Ganon should be highly rewarded if he manages to grab an enemy, concidering his slow speed, short grab range, and huge end lag if he misses.

His Down Throw is ok, having good follow-ups depending on their percent damage and their DI. His Forward Throw is also alright, dealing a massive 13% damage. His Up and Back throw... I'm not happy with those. His only real kill throw is his Back Throw, and even with that, the opponent needs like 170+% on the ledge for it to even kill. His Back Throw should have a lot more knockback, and his Up Throw could either get lower base knockback and more knockback growth so it can combo at low% as a mix-up with his Down Throw, or it could simply get a damage buff. But having a solid kill throw is what I want the most. Heck, add some dark magic to his back throw for good measure, too.

 

[free33]

His air speed is one of the two things I want to be buffed.

The other one is his grab. Ganon should be highly rewarded if he manages to grab an enemy, concidering his slow speed, short grab range, and huge end lag if he misses.

His Down Throw is ok, having good follow-ups depending on their percent damage and their DI. His Forward Throw is also alright, dealing a massive 13% damage. His Up and Back throw... I'm not happy with those. His only real kill throw is his Back Throw, and even with that, the opponent needs like 170+% on the ledge for it to even kill. His Back Throw should have a lot more knockback, and his Up Throw could either get lower base knockback and more knockback growth so it can combo at low% as a mix-up with his Down Throw, or it could simply get a damage buff. But having a solid kill throw is what I want the most. Heck, add some dark magic to his back throw for good measure, too.

For the back throw, why not electric effect since he kicks the opponent with his boot? That would make more sense.

Also, for grounded wizkick, has anyone else been using it as a kill move? I have been netting kills at the ledge at around 120% on ike. it is surprisingly good. I use it as a ledge guard, since it covers 4 different options (regular, attack, roll, drop down aerial depending on the aerial). plus you can ledge cancel it for extra safety, and if they stay on the ledge just uair or bair. any wya you spin it, it is a really good option that has a very high chance of getting the kill at high percents.

 

[Gold_TSG]

His air speed is one of the two things I want to be buffed.

The other one is his grab. Ganon should be highly rewarded if he manages to grab an enemy, concidering his slow speed, short grab range, and huge end lag if he misses.

His Down Throw is ok, having good follow-ups depending on their percent damage and their DI. His Forward Throw is also alright, dealing a massive 13% damage. His Up and Back throw... I'm not happy with those. His only real kill throw is his Back Throw, and even with that, the opponent needs like 170+% on the ledge for it to even kill. His Back Throw should have a lot more knockback, and his Up Throw could either get lower base knockback and more knockback growth so it can combo at low% as a mix-up with his Down Throw, or it could simply get a damage buff. But having a solid kill throw is what I want the most. Heck, add some dark magic to his back throw for good measure, too.

His bthrow doesn't need more KB. It needs to be made into a single 10% hit instead of two hits of 5%, that way he can actually make use of the knockback growth.