Smash 1.1.5 Ganon Changes

[adom4]

According to A2ZOMG wizkick now beats: Fire breath, Flamethrower, Arcfire & LEMONS.
I wonder what else it beats?

 

[King9999]

Dash attack appears to have reduced endlag as well.

I can also confirm this in case anyone thinks this is placebo.

 

[King9999]

According to A2ZOMG wizkick now beats: Fire breath, Flamethrower, Arcfire & LEMONS.
I wonder what else it beats?

Wait, it beats projectiles now? I tried it vs. Mario's fireball and it traded.

 

[adom4]

Wait, it beats projectiles now? I tried it vs. Mario's fireball and it traded.

I guess it beats the weaker projectiles.

 

[King9999]

I guess it beats the weaker projectiles.

I just tried Wiz Foot vs. Arcfire and it seems Ganon could always blow through it, at least since 1.1.4. Can't comment on lemons as I can't get the CPU to use it and the training mode sucks for testing things. For now, I'm going to claim placebo.

 

[WorstGanonWorld]

I don´t know if this was possible pre 1.1.5 but Ganons DA (weak hit) can combo into fair at high % now. Nvm if this was possible already.

 

[Blobface]

Wait, if Wizkick got a property changed, has anyone tested it vs Bullet Climax?

 

[HeavyLobster]

I don´t know if this was possible pre 1.1.5 but Ganons DA (weak hit) can combo into fair at high % now. Nvm if this was possible already.

Pretty sure it wasn't. Uair was I think.

 

[HeavyLobster]

I guess it beats the weaker projectiles.

Sourspot should beat anything with 2% or less, and sweetspot should beat 4% or less iirc.

 

[adom4]

WIZKICK BEATS LEMONS, **** YOU MEGA MAN

 

[Xandercosm]

Well, happy to see the Ganondorf's getting thrown a bone. I'm excited for you guys! How do you think these buffs might effect his viability?

 

[adom4]

Well, happy to see the Ganondorf's getting thrown a bone. I'm excited for you guys! How do you think these buffs might effect his viability?

It well def help him a lot, i wouldn't call him viable yet but the Sheik & MK nerfs along with those buffs will make him scarier for sure.

 

[Xandercosm]

It well def help him a lot, i wouldn't call him viable yet but the Sheik & MK nerfs along with those buffs will make him scarier for sure.

Ouch...

 

[LoveExpert]

I could see him going up by like 5 places on the tier list just because of his new options like jab, wizard kick, and footstool combos. I'm not sure if he is viable however, still early in the update so it's anyone's game

 

[jmanup85]

Wizkick beats lemons and Bullet Climax

 

[Swoops]

Uair didn't change, it was a placebo.
Dash attack changed too, FAF: 42->38, apparently sourspot DA can kill confirm now as well.

It always could, into uair. Now it should much easier though.

AND footsool stuff though??! My f*cking goodness.

With the 4 frames we might be able to get sour spot DA > BAir just barely.

Edit: Someone confirmed sour DA > FAir...we in there boys

 

[LifeMushroom]

Can someone clarify whether up air has changed or not? There seems to be confusion.

 

[DarkDeity15]

Does jab confirm into stuff now that the endlag was cut down?

 

[free33]

WAIT. DOES. WIZKICK.GO. THROUGH. NEEDLES?

 

[Swoops]

FYI, due to the lag decrease, the latest hitbox on DA is -10 on block (not counting shield drop.)

Not too shabby. Early hitbox (cross up) is -17

Jab is now -14 on sweet spot

 

[King9999]

Wizkick beats lemons and Bullet Climax

Interesting. Too bad this buff isn't applicable across the board. As I noted earlier, Wiz Foot still clashes with Mario's fireball and other projecitles too. I think it would be worthwhile to test which ones Wiz Foot will blow through.

 

[HeavyLobster]

WAIT. DOES. WIZKICK.GO. THROUGH. NEEDLES?

Needles are transcendent I believe, so probably not.

 

[jmanup85]

Interesting. Too bad this buff isn't applicable across the board. As I noted earlier, Wiz Foot still clashes with Mario's fireball and other projecitles too. I think it would be worthwhile to test which ones Wiz Foot will blow through.

already working on it. Beats Bowser fire breath, Zard Flamethrower, Greninja fully charge shuriken. All info thanks to MGK

 

[King9999]

Someone help me out here. Although Wiz Foot will clash with projectiles, it appears there are active frames at the start where he will ignore them completely. Did Ganon always have this property?

 

[randomguy1235]

Someone mentioned that they've noticed an Uthrow endlag reduction (claim they've been able to link to double jump Uair at later percentages). Can someone please verify this?

 

[mgleed]

From the official patch notes thread:

I'm not the first to bring up jab's increased speed, just making sure it's noted and counted. As for Dash attack, the late hit seems to effectively combo into the new jab and standing grab at low to mid percent range. And Nair at higher ranges. Ganons should get to labbing this immediately.

Seems like some pretty good options. I think I used to do standing grab before, but maybe it wasn't true.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I just tried Wiz Foot vs. Arcfire and it seems Ganon could always blow through it, at least since 1.1.4. Can't comment on lemons as I can't get the CPU to use it and the training mode sucks for testing things. For now, I'm going to claim placebo.

it's simple game mechanics. Move clash priority is based on damage, and the threshold iirc is 9 damage. For instance, Ganon can use fresh sweetspot DA to bulldoze late Luigi fireballs as his DA does exactly 14%, while Luigi fireball does 5% late.

It's much easier to consistently Wizkick through Arcfire than before, in previous patches it was very unreliable.

 

[adom4]

Multiple people are reporting on an angle change for U-air, can anyone with 1.1.4 confirm?

 

[Jiom]

From what I've tested, uair knock back angle did change, and it also seems to kill later then before, which is strange considering the better horizontal angle so if you're familiar with that move there might be more to test, with knock back and such. (If Marth got a weight change ignore this)

 

[Daeyrat]

From the 1.1.5 thread, it seems we got a Grab hitbox increase too.
The guy from the thread thinks they're standing and dash grab.
Wiki says it's flame choke and flame wave.

Either way, more buffs.

 

[Opana]

Omg that dash attack buff

 

[mgleed]

Deconfirming a couple rumors: Aerial WK does not have decreased landing lag. And KH doesn't have the data, so I can't compare, but I'm quite positive U-throw endlag hasn't changed randomguy1235 as it is still really long.

 

[[BROF]]

So dthrow at low % is a 50/50 now?
If they DI away then Sour DA into footstool.
If no DI or in then Nair.
Forgot which characters can escape DI away DA. IIRC only endlag got changed not startup, so those who escape probably still can.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Well, happy to see the Ganondorf's getting thrown a bone. I'm excited for you guys! How do you think these buffs might effect his viability?

When did these buffs happen?
WhAt?

 

[adom4]

When did these buffs happen?
WhAt?

We top tier now.

 

[Dark Phazon]

We top tier now.

Thanks for answering my question

 

[uncaDon]

Awww yeahhh.

 

[Krakhead]

https://www.diffchecker.com/kmgkqfng

Here are the data mines for ganon and what I hope to be correct in addition to what we already have found.

Jab:
Normal hitbox X position 12 -> 11
Sweetspot hitbox X position 18 -> 19

Wizard Foot (Grounded):
Strong hit Z position -1 -> 0
Wiz Foot Late hit Z position 4 -> 6

Some attack (Maybe U-air?)
Damage 10/10/9 -> 12/12/11

Another Unknown attack
Damage -> 9/9/7 -> 11/11/9

 

[the king of murder]

So Sourspot DA-->Fair registers as a true combo on training mode at 90% against now. KILL CONFIRM; YESSSS

We take those. Havent tested it on anyone else yet.

 

[LoveExpert]

>when you hear ganon gets DA footstool combos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr3m_QOgpfE