Smash Wii U [Sm4sh Mods] (Unofficial) Patch 1.1.7: The Fan Patch [Discontinued. See Updated Thread for details]

[JWai]

If Lucario had better frame data, he'd be godlike.

 

[Derpnaster]

I think that can be said for a lot of characters in Smash 4

 

[MarioMeteor]

Lucario without aura mechanics is automatically bottom tier in my opinion.

Oh, without a doubt. That's why he needs frame data that isn't laughable.

If Lucario had better frame data, he'd be godlike.

Lucario had okay frame data in Brawl, and if memory serves, he was only just barely high tier.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

to my change list on Wario:

Spoiler: Waahahahahahaha!

• Jab 1: Hitbox Active 8-9 < 5-6 (Or Base Dmg: 4 < 6.45) (So Wario gets more use from his otherwise mediocre jab)

• Ftilt (All Angles): Hitbox Active 12-15 < 10-15 AND Base Dmg: 14 on all active frames and angles
• Utilt: Hitbox Active: 12-14 < 8-11 (Or FAF: 36 < 30) (Gives more use to one of Wario least partial moves)
  
• Usmash: FAF 58 < 51 (This move has unnecessary amount of lag at the end of it, so trim off the extra fat)
• Dsmash: Hitbox Active: 18-27 (Sour Spot/Late: 28-36) < 13-22 (23-31) (Or replace sour spot hitboxes with new sweet spot hitboxes)
  
• Nair Hit 1: Hitbox Active: 4 < 3-4 AND KGB: 100 < 130
• Fair (Sour Spot/Late): Hitbox Active 7-17 < 7-20
• Uair: FAF 47 < 39
• Dair: Landing Lag 19 < 15 (Hopefully allowing this move to combo into Corkscrew a little easier)
• Bair: Angle changed from 361 to 285 (Turning the move into a meteor/spike)
• Bair: Hitbox Active: 9-11 < 13-16
• Bair: BKB 20 < 40, KBG 100 < 70 (These 2 above help balance out the new change)
• Fthrow: BKB 60 < 80, BKB 65 < 60 (Matching Bthrow's data while still being weight dependent so it doesn't kill as early)
• Uthrow: FAF reduced by 6 frames, BKB 60 < 50, KBG 72 < 87 (Allowing this move to combo into Uair at 0-10%)
• Dthrow: Angle changed from 130 to 172
• Dthrow: BKB 80 < 65 (Turning it into a tech chase throw)
• Bthrow: Base Dmg 7 < 11.3 (Killing a bit later than the new Fthrow, but it's still not weight dependent)
• Wario Bike (Landing Wheelie Hit): Base Dmg 13 < 9.5 (+35 Shield Dmg) (While this move can kill at high percents, landing it is very situational and unlikely since it's very easy to dodge, so it might as well get some reward for landing it if the opponent is just gonna stand there and shield, at the cost of some of it's kill power)
• Corkscrew (Final Hit): Base Knockback 60 < 90

Hopefully these changes aren't asking for too much, though I wouldn't mind seeing only a few of these in future.
Most of these just help Wario get past his difficulties of killing.

 

[anas abou]

Oh, without a doubt. That's why he needs frame data that isn't laughable.

Lucario had okay frame data in Brawl, and if memory serves, he was only just barely high tier.

actually lucario is better in sm4sh because aura was buffed and rage was added (also upthrow combos), also i don't remember lucario having better frame data in brawl although it does seem that way since he had less hitlage.

 

[Derpnaster]

Also Brawl did have mechanics that enhanced survivability, Momentum canceling is the first thing that comes to mind.

 

[MarioMeteor]

actually lucario is better in sm4sh because aura was buffed and rage was added (also upthrow combos), also i don't remember lucario having better frame data in brawl although it does seem that way since he had less hitlage.

Aura was buffed, but Lucario was nerfed. Smash 4 Lucario is far weaker than Brawl Lucario at Low Aura, and now he dies earlier because of Rage. As for frame data, I don't know how you could not notice that Lucario attacks like he's moving through molasses in Smash 4. I'd say that the only thing Smash 4 Lucario has over his Brawl counterpart is stronger Aura and a better recovery.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If Lucario had better frame data, he'd be godlike.

Mega Lucario pretty much covers that, as its aura abilities are always at full power. Of course, the main thing that hurts Mega Lucario is that it's a Final Smash fighter, and as such, doesn't stay in battle for very long.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Mega Lucario pretty much covers that, as its aura abilities are always at full power. Of course, the main thing that hurts Mega Lucario is that it's a Final Smash fighter, and as such, doesn't stay in battle for very long.

Mega Lucario's attacks aren't any faster than normal Lucario.

 

[Deleted member]

Aura is a bad mechanic in general. I would like to see it toned down and the rest of Lucario's tools buffed. His moves should be slightly more damaging at lower percentages with reduced power at higher percentages.

Forward Smash should be reverted to its Brawl data, where it was actually pretty damn good. It had a lingering hitbox and much less end lag, making it surprisingly safe to use.
- Startup: 22 -> 21
- FAF: 55 -> 43
- Active frames increased

Down Smash should be changed to be quicker but weaker. Reduce its KB in exchange for significantly less startup and end lag.
- Startup: 19 -> 11
- FAF: 55 -> 38
- BKB: 30 -> 40
- KBG: 99 -> 60

Up Smash should be reverted to its Brawl data.
- Startup: 15 -> 12
- FAF: 64 -> 56

Forward Tilt startup: 12 -> 10

Neutral Air should have a larger hitbox and more active frames (enough to actually match the animation) like it did in Brawl.

Forward Air should have reduced KB so that it combos better like it did in Brawl.

Back Air startup: 16 -> 14

Up Air landing lag: 22 -> 19

Force Palm should be able to grab opponents in the air like other command grabs.

I would also slightly increase his Dash Speed: 1.55 -> 1.57 (same as Kirby)

 

[Zero Suit Sammy]

Hi. Can you change bayonetta?
As a bayonetta player i think they nerfed her to much like sheik I think they both deserved slight buffs to restore them to their previous glory. Thanks

 

[Derpnaster]

Simply put. Bayo had it coming, She was the only character who, bar ESAM level perfect SDI, ignored the most basic of mechanics for surviving and escaping combos. She's still very good and honestly just requires more skill and creativity.

As a Sheik player I can say She's good. The nerfs to her kill setups were needed because up until then the one weakness Sheik supposedly had, didn't exist. Sheik could kill as early as the next guy because she had easy to land 50/50 kill setups.

 

[Mr Snak3_]

-Removed rolling
-Removed air dodging
-Removed chain grabs
-Removed Bayonetta
-Removed online
-Items always on
-Removed Fd and Battlefield
-Added Pichu
-Made Pichu only selectable character
Party game

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Mega Lucario's attacks aren't any faster than normal Lucario.

It can't flinch from attacks though. As such, opponents are better off fleeing, since they can't interrupt any of Mega Lucario's attacks.

 

[William5000000]

Hi. So I was looking for a thread about Star KOs/Screen KOs and noticed that nobody has made a comment about it at all. So I decided to make one. You can look at my thread if you want.

Here is the link to it:
http://smashboards.com/threads/star-kos-screen-kos-discussion-smash-4-wii-u-3ds.438251/

I noticed that some people aren't happy about the Star KOs/Screen KOs being completely random (very rare), and quite frankly, I'm not happy about it either. In fact, most of the time, when a character is knocked at the top of the screen, a Blast KO happens, no matter what mode is played. I swear, the Blast KOs at the top happen much more often now. Even when there's no time limit, the Blast KOs at the top still happen.

So while this isn't a character suggestion, I'd like this to be added to patch 1.1.7:
- An option to turn Star KOs/Screen KOs on or off, and/or remove the Blast KOs at the top of the screen.

I'd like some people to be happy with what was born in the first place. If you or any other Moderator can do it, that'll be much appreciated.

 

[JWai]

Hi. So I was looking for a thread about Star KOs/Screen KOs and noticed that nobody has made a comment about it at all. So I decided to make one. You can look at my thread if you want.

Here is the link to it:
http://smashboards.com/threads/star-kos-screen-kos-discussion-smash-4-wii-u-3ds.438251/

I noticed that some people aren't happy about the Star KOs/Screen KOs being completely random (very rare), and quite frankly, I'm not happy about it either. In fact, most of the time, when a character is knocked at the top of the screen, a Blast KO happens, no matter what mode is played. I swear, the Blast KOs at the top happen much more often now. Even when there's no time limit, the Blast KOs at the top still happen.

So while this isn't a character suggestion, I'd like this to be added to patch 1.1.7:
- An option to turn Star KOs/Screen KOs on or off, and/or remove the Blast KOs at the top of the screen.

I'd like some people to be happy with what was born in the first place. If you or any other Moderator can do it, that'll be much appreciated.

I'd prefer if star/screen KOs were removed completely. There doesn't need to be a fancy animation for dying of the top, just die.

 

[William5000000]

I'd prefer if star/screen KOs were removed completely. There doesn't need to be a fancy animation for dying of the top, just die.

That's why I said 'an option to turn Star KOs/Screen KOs on or off'.

 

[anas abou]

Aura was buffed, but Lucario was nerfed. Smash 4 Lucario is far weaker than Brawl Lucario at Low Aura, and now he dies earlier because of Rage. As for frame data, I don't know how you could not notice that Lucario attacks like he's moving through molasses in Smash 4. I'd say that the only thing Smash 4 Lucario has over his Brawl counterpart is stronger Aura and a better recovery.

ummm...no, lucario in sm4sh has aura-sphere multihit to b-air/up-smash that can kill very early, he is much more mobile so he can play neutral better, much more versatile grab game (faster,kill-confirms,easy damage) so he doesn't get destroyed by shield, also i just checked frame data and it's overall the same, some attacks are faster in brawl and others are faster in sm4sh, as i said before he looks slower cuz every time he hits an opponent or a shield he is subject to hitlag (if you don't know hitlag don't even reply, educate yourself first).

 

[MarioMeteor]

ummm...no, lucario in sm4sh has aura-sphere multihit to b-air/up-smash that can kill very early, he is much more mobile so he can play neutral better, much more versatile grab game (faster,kill-confirms,easy damage) so he doesn't get destroyed by shield, also i just checked frame data and it's overall the same, some attacks are faster in brawl and others are faster in sm4sh, as i said before he looks slower cuz every time he hits an opponent or a shield he is subject to hitlag (if you don't know hitlag don't even reply, educate yourself first).

I think it's you who needs educating. Lucario's attacks are significantly slower than they are in Brawl, it doesn't take a genius to see it. Hitlag has nothing to do with it. Yes, Lucario has confirms now, but like everything else in his moveset, they're pitifully weak at Low Aura. By the time Lucario actually gains the ability to kill, half his stock will be gone. Brawl Lucario didn't have that problem. Lucario may have a better grab game now, but his combo game was still weakened. Combos aren't all about grabs.

 

[SageX3]

I think it's you who needs educating. Lucario's attacks are significantly slower than they are in Brawl, it doesn't take a genius to see it. Hitlag has nothing to do with it. Yes, Lucario has confirms now, but like everything else in his moveset, they're pitifully weak at Low Aura. By the time Lucario actually gains the ability to kill, half his stock will be gone. Brawl Lucario didn't have that problem. Lucario may have a better grab game now, but his combo game was still weakened. Combos aren't all about grabs.

But that's supposed to be his weakness. He should be weak at low percents and become one of the best characters at high percents. If you make Lucario powerful at low percents then he becomes ridiculously strong. While I personally don't like the aura mechanics, I prefer PM Lucario, they design him in a way to be the most high risk high reward character.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You do need to remember that in Brawl, Lucario heavily struggles to make KOs whenever its current damage is low, AND it's leading a match; opponents can survive, even when they surpass normally realistic damage percentages.

Smash Wii U is more forgiving in that even if Lucario is leading a match, it can still make KOs while its damage is low.

 

[Radical Larry]

I'm finishing this post. And I'm updating it with a few changes obviously. And of course, adding Ryu, Ganondorf and Puff.

Spoiler: Link

• Attribute Statistics:
  • Run Speed Increased: 1.3944 => 1.455
  • Walk Speed Increased: 1.188 => 1.219
  • Air Speed Increased: 0.88 => 0.92
  • Gravity Decreased: 0.096 => 0.091
  • Wall Jumping Ability Added
  • Jump Squat Frames Decreased: 7 Frames => 4 Frames
• Ground Moves [Normals]:
  • Jab Attack:
    • Jab 1 Start-Up Decreased: Frames 7-8 => Frames 5-6
    • Jab 1 FAF Decreased: 28 => 22
    • Jab 2 FAF Decreased: 21 => 18
  • Dash Attack:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 20-23 => 16-19
    • Damages Decreased: 14/13/12% => 13/12/11%
    • FAF Decreased: 57 => 48
  • Forward Tilt:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 15-19 => Frames 13-17
    • FAF Decreased: 38 => 32
  • Up Tilt:
    • FAF Decreased: 36 => 26
  • Down Tilt:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 11-12 => Frames 8-9
    • Damage Decreased: 10%
    • Hitbox Added to Tip:
      • Damage: 13%
      • Base Knockback: 90
      • Knockback Growth: 15
      • Angle: 270 Degrees
• Smash Attacks:
  • Forward Smash:
    • Hit 1 Start-Up Decreased: Frames 15-16 => Frames 12-13
    • Hit 1 Hitboxes Changed to be like Tip Hit
    • Hit 1 FAF Decreased: 52 => 48
    • Hit 2 FAF Decreased: 68 => 60
  • Up Smash:
    • Hit 1 Start-Up Decreased: Frames 10-13 => Frames 9-12
  • Down Smash:
    • Hit 1 Damages Increased: 14/16/17/16% => 16/17/19/17%
    • Hit 2 Damages Increased: 12/12/11/10% => 15/15/13/12%
    • Optional Changes:
      • Hit 2 Angle Change: 30 Degrees => 10 Degrees
      • Hit 2 Base Knockback Increased: 80 => 90
      • Hit 2 Knockback Growth Increased: 63 => 75
• Throws:
  • Back Throw:
    • Hit 2 Damage Increased: 4% => 10%
    • Hit 2 Knockback Growth Increased: 110 => 115
• Aerial Attacks:
  • Neutral Aerial:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 7-8 => Frames 4-5
    • Late Hitboxes Active: Frames 9-31 => Frames 6-28
  • Forward Aerial:
    • Hit 1 Start-Up Decreased: Frames 14-15 => 12-13
  • Back Aerial:
    • Hit 1 Start-Up Decreased: Frames 6-8 => Frames 3-5
  • Down Aerial:
    • Earliest Hit Damage Increased: 15% => 22%
    • Earliest Hit Angle Changed: 270/55 => 85
    • Earliest Hit Knockback Growth Increased: 80/40 => 140
  • Grab Aerial:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frame 12 => Frame 9
    • Landing Lag Decreased: 8 Frames => 2 Frames
• Special Moves:
  • Hero's Bow:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frame 18 => Frame 14
  • Gale Boomerang:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frame 27 => Frame 19
  • Spin Attack:
    • All Hitboxes hit separately. This means that if the first one connects, instead of the rest disappearing, the rest will stay.
    • All HItboxes gain +7% in Shield Damage.
    • FAF Decreased: 82 => 64

Spoiler: Ganondorf

• Attribute Statistics:
  • Weight Increased: 113 => 125
  • Run Speed Increased: 1.218 => 1.34
  • Walk Speed Increased: 0.73 => 0.99
  • Air Speed Increased: 0.79 => 0.88
  • Jumpsquat Decreased: 7 Frames => 5 Frames
• Ground Moves [Normals]:
  • Jab Attack:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 7-8 => Frames 3-4
    • FAF Decreased: 29 Frames => 20 Frames
    • Damages Decreased [Body to Tip]: 6/8/10% => 5/7/8%
  • Forward Tilt:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 10-12 => Frames 8-10
    • Damage Decreased: 13% => 11%
  • Up Tilt:
    • Super Armor Frames Added: Frames 6-95
  • Down Tilt:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 10-12 => Frames 7-9
    • FAF Decreased: 36 => 32
    • Angles Changed [Body to Foot]: 80/70/60 => 90/80/20
• Smash Attacks:
  • Up Smash:
    • New Hitbox Added:
      • Start-Up: Frames 12-13
      • Damage: 12%
      • Angle: 90 Degrees
      • Base Knockback: 15
      • Knockback Growth: 30
  • Down Smash:
    • Hit 1 Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 15-18 => Frames 12-15
    • Hit 2 Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 35-38 => Frames 30-33
    • Hit 1 Angles Changed: 160/140/154/50 => 160/150/160/150
• Grabs:
  • Standing Grab Start-Up Decreased: Frames 7-8 => Frames 6-7
  • Standing Grab FAF Decreased: 36 Frames => 30 Frames
  • Standing Grab Range Increased by 2.5 Units
  • Dash Grab Start-Up Decreased: Frames 11-12 => Frames 9-10
  • Dash Grab FAF Decreased: 45 Frames => 40 Frames
  • Dash Grab Range Increased by 2 Units
  • Pivot Grab FAF Decreased: 42 Frames => 38 Frames
  • Pivot Grab Range Increased by 3 Units
• Throws:
  • Forward Throw:
    • Hit 2 Damage Increased: 8% => 11%
    • Knockback Growth Increased: 65 => 110
  • Back Throw:
    • Hit 2 Damage Increased: 5% => 10%
  • Up Throw:
    • Base Knockback Decreased: 70 => 30
    • Knockback Growth Decreased: 105 => 35
    • Angle Changed: 90 Degrees => 55 Degrees
  • Down Throw:
    • Base Knockback Decreased: 70 => 50
    • Knockback Growth Decreased: 50 => 25
    • Angle Changed: 65 Degrees => 85 Degrees
• Aerials:
  • Forward Aerial:
    • Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 14-19 => Frames 12-17
    • Auto-Cancel Frames Decreased: Frame 55 => Frame 27
  • Back Aerial:
    • Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 10-12 => Frames 8-10
  • Down Aerial:
    • Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 16-18 => Frames 14-16
    • Auto-Cancel Frames Decreased: Frame 32 => Frame 25
    • Damages Increased: 19/17% => 22/19%
• Specials:
  • Warlock Punch:
    • Normal Grounded Damage Increased: 30% => 35%
    • Normal Aerial Damage Increased: 38% => 42%
    • B-Reversed Grounded Damage Increased: 38% => 45%
    • B-Reversed Aerial Damage Increased: 40% => 60%
    • B-Reversed Grounded and Aerial Knockback Growth Increased: 100 => 150
  • Flame Choke:
    • Grounded Start-Up Decreased: Frames 16-30 => Frame 10-26
    • Grounded Grab Boxes Active Increased: Frame 10-26 => Frame 10-45
    • Aerial Start-Up Decreased: Frames 19-31 => Frames 13-25
    • Aerial Grab Boxes Active Increased: Frame 13-25 => Frame 13-39
    • Aerial Recovery Distance increased by 40%
  • Dark Dive:
    • Attack Knockback Growth Increased: 90 => 110
    • Aerial Recovery Vertical Distance increased by 40%
    • Aerial Recovery Horizontal Distance increased by 50%

Thanks to @KuroganeHammer having a mistake on Ganondorf's page with Dark Dive, I cannot tell if the Attack on Dark Dive means the final hit of the grab attack or the apex punch of the attack. Whichever one it was, dude, please fix that.

But as for Ganondorf and Link, my statements earlier about their movesets and mobility stand, they need the changes and I've become more lenient on the thoughts of others. I've even decreased many things with the characters over the course of time, and you'd notice it too.

Spoiler: Ryu

• Attribute Statistics:
  • Run Speed Decreased: 1.6 => 1.47
  • Air Speed Decreased: 1.12 => 1.08
  • Gravity Increased:0.12 => 0.1285
• Ground Moves [Normals]:
  • Up Tilt [Light]:
    • Start-Up Increased: Frames 3-6 => Frames 5-8
    • FAF Increased: 15 Frames => 22 Frames
    • Base Knockback Increased: 19 => 20
    • Knockback Growth Increased: 94 => 110
    • Angle Changed: 84/105 Degrees => 45/70 Degrees
  • Down Tilt [Light]:
    • Start-Up Increased: Frames 2-3 => Frames 4-5
    • FAF Increased: 16 Frames => 20 Frames
• Aerials:
  • Down Aerial:
    • Landing Lag Increased: 18 Frames => 27 Frames
• Specials:
  • Shoryuken:
    • • Light:
        • Damage Decreased: 13% => 10%
        • True Damage Decreased: 15.6% => 12%
      • Medium:
        • Damage Decreased: 14% => 11%
        • True Damage Decreased: 16.8% => 13.2%
      • Heavy:
        • Damage Decreased: 15% => 12%
        • True Damage Decreased: 18% => 14.4%
      • All:
        • Base Knockback Decreased: 80 => 70

Let's face it Ryu's moveset was too overpowering in a nutshell, but while this nerfs his tilting combo potential into True Shoryu, as well as D-Air shenanigans, we can essentially make Ryu players in this mod play smart. This, however, doesn't go against any other attacks that are good for Ryu, as well as other combos, so in the end, Ryu will be more balanced. As well, a gravity increase will have to keep Ryu players on edge with jumps and may decrease recovery.

Spoiler: Jigglypuff

• Attribute Statistics:
  • Jumpsquat Frames Decreased: 6 Frames => 4 Frames
• Smash Attacks:
  • Forward Smash:
    • Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 16-19 => Frames 12-15
    • FAF Decreased: 50 Frames => 42 Frames
    • Damage Increased: 15% => 16%
  • Up Smash:
    • Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 16-19 => Frames 12-15
    • FAF Decreased: 46 Frames => 38 Frames
  • Down Smash:
    • FAF Decreased: 49 Frames => 39 Frames
• Throws:
  • Back Throw:
    • Base Knockback Increased: 25 => 30
    • Knockback Growth Increased: 90 => 120
  • Up Throw:
    • Knockback Growth Decreased: 110 => 50
  • Down Throw:
    • Base Knockback Decreased: 45 => 25
    • Knockback Growth Decreased: 100 => 50
• Aerials:
  • Forward Aerial:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 8-9 => Frames 6-7
    • FAF Decreased: 37 Frames => 30 Frames
  • Back Aerial:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 12-13 => Frame 9-10
• Specials:
  • Pound:
    • Hitbox Active Frames Increased: 13-28 => 8-33
    • FAF Decreased: 46 Frames => 37 Frames
  • Rest:
    • Hitbox Active Frames Increased: 2-4 => 1-8
    • Knockback Growth Increased: 66 => 74
    • Angle Changed: 88 Degrees => 30 Degrees

Basically the opposite of Ryu.

 

[SageX3]

I'm finishing this post. And I'm updating it with a few changes obviously. And of course, adding Ryu, Ganondorf and Puff.

Spoiler: Link

• Attribute Statistics:
  • Run Speed Increased: 1.3944 => 1.455
  • Walk Speed Increased: 1.188 => 1.219
  • Air Speed Increased: 0.88 => 0.92
  • Gravity Decreased: 0.096 => 0.091
  • Wall Jumping Ability Added
  • Jump Squat Frames Decreased: 7 Frames => 4 Frames
• Ground Moves [Normals]:
  • Jab Attack:
    • Jab 1 Start-Up Decreased: Frames 7-8 => Frames 5-6
    • Jab 1 FAF Decreased: 28 => 22
    • Jab 2 FAF Decreased: 21 => 18
  • Dash Attack:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 20-23 => 16-19
    • Damages Decreased: 14/13/12% => 13/12/11%
    • FAF Decreased: 57 => 48
  • Forward Tilt:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 15-19 => Frames 13-17
    • FAF Decreased: 38 => 32
  • Up Tilt:
    • FAF Decreased: 36 => 26
  • Down Tilt:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 11-12 => Frames 8-9
    • Damage Decreased: 10%
    • Hitbox Added to Tip:
      • Damage: 13%
      • Base Knockback: 90
      • Knockback Growth: 15
      • Angle: 270 Degrees
• Smash Attacks:
  • Forward Smash:
    • Hit 1 Start-Up Decreased: Frames 15-16 => Frames 12-13
    • Hit 1 Hitboxes Changed to be like Tip Hit
    • Hit 1 FAF Decreased: 52 => 48
    • Hit 2 FAF Decreased: 68 => 60
  • Up Smash:
    • Hit 1 Start-Up Decreased: Frames 10-13 => Frames 9-12
  • Down Smash:
    • Hit 1 Damages Increased: 14/16/17/16% => 16/17/19/17%
    • Hit 2 Damages Increased: 12/12/11/10% => 15/15/13/12%
    • Optional Changes:
      • Hit 2 Angle Change: 30 Degrees => 10 Degrees
      • Hit 2 Base Knockback Increased: 80 => 90
      • Hit 2 Knockback Growth Increased: 63 => 75
• Throws:
  • Back Throw:
    • Hit 2 Damage Increased: 4% => 10%
    • Hit 2 Knockback Growth Increased: 110 => 115
• Aerial Attacks:
  • Neutral Aerial:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 7-8 => Frames 4-5
    • Late Hitboxes Active: Frames 9-31 => Frames 6-28
  • Forward Aerial:
    • Hit 1 Start-Up Decreased: Frames 14-15 => 12-13
  • Back Aerial:
    • Hit 1 Start-Up Decreased: Frames 6-8 => Frames 3-5
  • Down Aerial:
    • Earliest Hit Damage Increased: 15% => 22%
    • Earliest Hit Angle Changed: 270/55 => 85
    • Earliest Hit Knockback Growth Increased: 80/40 => 140
  • Grab Aerial:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frame 12 => Frame 9
    • Landing Lag Decreased: 8 Frames => 2 Frames
• Special Moves:
  • Hero's Bow:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frame 18 => Frame 14
  • Gale Boomerang:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frame 27 => Frame 19
  • Spin Attack:
    • All Hitboxes hit separately. This means that if the first one connects, instead of the rest disappearing, the rest will stay.
    • All HItboxes gain +7% in Shield Damage.
    • FAF Decreased: 82 => 64

Spoiler: Ganondorf

• Attribute Statistics:
  • Weight Increased: 113 => 125
  • Run Speed Increased: 1.218 => 1.34
  • Walk Speed Increased: 0.73 => 0.99
  • Air Speed Increased: 0.79 => 0.88
  • Jumpsquat Decreased: 7 Frames => 5 Frames
• Ground Moves [Normals]:
  • Jab Attack:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 7-8 => Frames 3-4
    • FAF Decreased: 29 Frames => 20 Frames
    • Damages Decreased [Body to Tip]: 6/8/10% => 5/7/8%
  • Forward Tilt:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 10-12 => Frames 8-10
    • Damage Decreased: 13% => 11%
  • Up Tilt:
    • Super Armor Frames Added: Frames 6-95
  • Down Tilt:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 10-12 => Frames 7-9
    • FAF Decreased: 36 => 32
    • Angles Changed [Body to Foot]: 80/70/60 => 90/80/20
• Smash Attacks:
  • Up Smash:
    • New Hitbox Added:
      • Start-Up: Frames 12-13
      • Damage: 12%
      • Angle: 90 Degrees
      • Base Knockback: 15
      • Knockback Growth: 30
  • Down Smash:
    • Hit 1 Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 15-18 => Frames 12-15
    • Hit 2 Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 35-38 => Frames 30-33
    • Hit 1 Angles Changed: 160/140/154/50 => 160/150/160/150
• Grabs:
  • Standing Grab Start-Up Decreased: Frames 7-8 => Frames 6-7
  • Standing Grab FAF Decreased: 36 Frames => 30 Frames
  • Standing Grab Range Increased by 2.5 Units
  • Dash Grab Start-Up Decreased: Frames 11-12 => Frames 9-10
  • Dash Grab FAF Decreased: 45 Frames => 40 Frames
  • Dash Grab Range Increased by 2 Units
  • Pivot Grab FAF Decreased: 42 Frames => 38 Frames
  • Pivot Grab Range Increased by 3 Units
• Throws:
  • Forward Throw:
    • Hit 2 Damage Increased: 8% => 11%
    • Knockback Growth Increased: 65 => 110
  • Back Throw:
    • Hit 2 Damage Increased: 5% => 10%
  • Up Throw:
    • Base Knockback Decreased: 70 => 30
    • Knockback Growth Decreased: 105 => 35
    • Angle Changed: 90 Degrees => 55 Degrees
  • Down Throw:
    • Base Knockback Decreased: 70 => 50
    • Knockback Growth Decreased: 50 => 25
    • Angle Changed: 65 Degrees => 85 Degrees
• Aerials:
  • Forward Aerial:
    • Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 14-19 => Frames 12-17
    • Auto-Cancel Frames Decreased: Frame 55 => Frame 27
  • Back Aerial:
    • Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 10-12 => Frames 8-10
  • Down Aerial:
    • Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 16-18 => Frames 14-16
    • Auto-Cancel Frames Decreased: Frame 32 => Frame 25
    • Damages Increased: 19/17% => 22/19%
• Specials:
  • Warlock Punch:
    • Normal Grounded Damage Increased: 30% => 35%
    • Normal Aerial Damage Increased: 38% => 42%
    • B-Reversed Grounded Damage Increased: 38% => 45%
    • B-Reversed Aerial Damage Increased: 40% => 60%
    • B-Reversed Grounded and Aerial Knockback Growth Increased: 100 => 150
  • Flame Choke:
    • Grounded Start-Up Decreased: Frames 16-30 => Frame 10-26
    • Grounded Grab Boxes Active Increased: Frame 10-26 => Frame 10-45
    • Aerial Start-Up Decreased: Frames 19-31 => Frames 13-25
    • Aerial Grab Boxes Active Increased: Frame 13-25 => Frame 13-39
    • Aerial Recovery Distance increased by 40%
  • Dark Dive:
    • Attack Knockback Growth Increased: 90 => 110
    • Aerial Recovery Vertical Distance increased by 40%
    • Aerial Recovery Horizontal Distance increased by 50%

Thanks to @KuroganeHammer having a mistake on Ganondorf's page with Dark Dive, I cannot tell if the Attack on Dark Dive means the final hit of the grab attack or the apex punch of the attack. Whichever one it was, dude, please fix that.

But as for Ganondorf and Link, my statements earlier about their movesets and mobility stand, they need the changes and I've become more lenient on the thoughts of others. I've even decreased many things with the characters over the course of time, and you'd notice it too.

Spoiler: Ryu

• Attribute Statistics:
  • Run Speed Decreased: 1.6 => 1.47
  • Air Speed Decreased: 1.12 => 1.08
  • Gravity Increased:0.12 => 0.1285
• Ground Moves [Normals]:
  • Up Tilt [Light]:
    • Start-Up Increased: Frames 3-6 => Frames 5-8
    • FAF Increased: 15 Frames => 22 Frames
    • Base Knockback Increased: 19 => 20
    • Knockback Growth Increased: 94 => 110
    • Angle Changed: 84/105 Degrees => 45/70 Degrees
  • Down Tilt [Light]:
    • Start-Up Increased: Frames 2-3 => Frames 4-5
    • FAF Increased: 16 Frames => 20 Frames
• Aerials:
  • Down Aerial:
    • Landing Lag Increased: 18 Frames => 27 Frames
• Specials:
  • Shoryuken:
    • • Light:
        • Damage Decreased: 13% => 10%
        • True Damage Decreased: 15.6% => 12%
      • Medium:
        • Damage Decreased: 14% => 11%
        • True Damage Decreased: 16.8% => 13.2%
      • Heavy:
        • Damage Decreased: 15% => 12%
        • True Damage Decreased: 18% => 14.4%
      • All:
        • Base Knockback Decreased: 80 => 70

Let's face it Ryu's moveset was too overpowering in a nutshell, but while this nerfs his tilting combo potential into True Shoryu, as well as D-Air shenanigans, we can essentially make Ryu players in this mod play smart. This, however, doesn't go against any other attacks that are good for Ryu, as well as other combos, so in the end, Ryu will be more balanced. As well, a gravity increase will have to keep Ryu players on edge with jumps and may decrease recovery.

Spoiler: Jigglypuff

• Attribute Statistics:
  • Jumpsquat Frames Decreased: 6 Frames => 4 Frames
• Smash Attacks:
  • Forward Smash:
    • Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 16-19 => Frames 12-15
    • FAF Decreased: 50 Frames => 42 Frames
    • Damage Increased: 15% => 16%
  • Up Smash:
    • Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 16-19 => Frames 12-15
    • FAF Decreased: 46 Frames => 38 Frames
  • Down Smash:
    • FAF Decreased: 49 Frames => 39 Frames
• Throws:
  • Back Throw:
    • Base Knockback Increased: 25 => 30
    • Knockback Growth Increased: 90 => 120
  • Up Throw:
    • Knockback Growth Decreased: 110 => 50
  • Down Throw:
    • Base Knockback Decreased: 45 => 25
    • Knockback Growth Decreased: 100 => 50
• Aerials:
  • Forward Aerial:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 8-9 => Frames 6-7
    • FAF Decreased: 37 Frames => 30 Frames
  • Back Aerial:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 12-13 => Frame 9-10
• Specials:
  • Pound:
    • Hitbox Active Frames Increased: 13-28 => 8-33
    • FAF Decreased: 46 Frames => 37 Frames
  • Rest:
    • Hitbox Active Frames Increased: 2-4 => 1-8
    • Knockback Growth Increased: 66 => 74
    • Angle Changed: 88 Degrees => 30 Degrees

Basically the opposite of Ryu.

But why. I have never heard of anyone even remotely complain about Ryu. And please don't tell me you're trying to bring back up throw rest.

 

[JWai]

I have no words.

 

[MarioMeteor]

But that's supposed to be his weakness. He should be weak at low percents and become one of the best characters at high percents. If you make Lucario powerful at low percents then he becomes ridiculously strong. While I personally don't like the aura mechanics, I prefer PM Lucario, they design him in a way to be the most high risk high reward character.

I know that, I was just pointing out that that was a weakness.

You do need to remember that in Brawl, Lucario heavily struggles to make KOs whenever its current damage is low, AND it's leading a match; opponents can survive, even when they surpass normally realistic damage percentages.

Smash Wii U is more forgiving in that even if Lucario is leading a match, it can still make KOs while its damage is low.

I think that's a small price to pay for a more balanced Aura to power ratio.

I'm finishing this post. And I'm updating it with a few changes obviously. And of course, adding Ryu, Ganondorf and Puff.

Spoiler: Link

• Attribute Statistics:
  • Run Speed Increased: 1.3944 => 1.455
  • Walk Speed Increased: 1.188 => 1.219
  • Air Speed Increased: 0.88 => 0.92
  • Gravity Decreased: 0.096 => 0.091
  • Wall Jumping Ability Added
  • Jump Squat Frames Decreased: 7 Frames => 4 Frames
• Ground Moves [Normals]:
  • Jab Attack:
    • Jab 1 Start-Up Decreased: Frames 7-8 => Frames 5-6
    • Jab 1 FAF Decreased: 28 => 22
    • Jab 2 FAF Decreased: 21 => 18
  • Dash Attack:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 20-23 => 16-19
    • Damages Decreased: 14/13/12% => 13/12/11%
    • FAF Decreased: 57 => 48
  • Forward Tilt:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 15-19 => Frames 13-17
    • FAF Decreased: 38 => 32
  • Up Tilt:
    • FAF Decreased: 36 => 26
  • Down Tilt:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 11-12 => Frames 8-9
    • Damage Decreased: 10%
    • Hitbox Added to Tip:
      • Damage: 13%
      • Base Knockback: 90
      • Knockback Growth: 15
      • Angle: 270 Degrees
• Smash Attacks:
  • Forward Smash:
    • Hit 1 Start-Up Decreased: Frames 15-16 => Frames 12-13
    • Hit 1 Hitboxes Changed to be like Tip Hit
    • Hit 1 FAF Decreased: 52 => 48
    • Hit 2 FAF Decreased: 68 => 60
  • Up Smash:
    • Hit 1 Start-Up Decreased: Frames 10-13 => Frames 9-12
  • Down Smash:
    • Hit 1 Damages Increased: 14/16/17/16% => 16/17/19/17%
    • Hit 2 Damages Increased: 12/12/11/10% => 15/15/13/12%
    • Optional Changes:
      • Hit 2 Angle Change: 30 Degrees => 10 Degrees
      • Hit 2 Base Knockback Increased: 80 => 90
      • Hit 2 Knockback Growth Increased: 63 => 75
• Throws:
  • Back Throw:
    • Hit 2 Damage Increased: 4% => 10%
    • Hit 2 Knockback Growth Increased: 110 => 115
• Aerial Attacks:
  • Neutral Aerial:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 7-8 => Frames 4-5
    • Late Hitboxes Active: Frames 9-31 => Frames 6-28
  • Forward Aerial:
    • Hit 1 Start-Up Decreased: Frames 14-15 => 12-13
  • Back Aerial:
    • Hit 1 Start-Up Decreased: Frames 6-8 => Frames 3-5
  • Down Aerial:
    • Earliest Hit Damage Increased: 15% => 22%
    • Earliest Hit Angle Changed: 270/55 => 85
    • Earliest Hit Knockback Growth Increased: 80/40 => 140
  • Grab Aerial:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frame 12 => Frame 9
    • Landing Lag Decreased: 8 Frames => 2 Frames
• Special Moves:
  • Hero's Bow:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frame 18 => Frame 14
  • Gale Boomerang:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frame 27 => Frame 19
  • Spin Attack:
    • All Hitboxes hit separately. This means that if the first one connects, instead of the rest disappearing, the rest will stay.
    • All HItboxes gain +7% in Shield Damage.
    • FAF Decreased: 82 => 64

Spoiler: Ganondorf

• Attribute Statistics:
  • Weight Increased: 113 => 125
  • Run Speed Increased: 1.218 => 1.34
  • Walk Speed Increased: 0.73 => 0.99
  • Air Speed Increased: 0.79 => 0.88
  • Jumpsquat Decreased: 7 Frames => 5 Frames
• Ground Moves [Normals]:
  • Jab Attack:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 7-8 => Frames 3-4
    • FAF Decreased: 29 Frames => 20 Frames
    • Damages Decreased [Body to Tip]: 6/8/10% => 5/7/8%
  • Forward Tilt:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 10-12 => Frames 8-10
    • Damage Decreased: 13% => 11%
  • Up Tilt:
    • Super Armor Frames Added: Frames 6-95
  • Down Tilt:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 10-12 => Frames 7-9
    • FAF Decreased: 36 => 32
    • Angles Changed [Body to Foot]: 80/70/60 => 90/80/20
• Smash Attacks:
  • Up Smash:
    • New Hitbox Added:
      • Start-Up: Frames 12-13
      • Damage: 12%
      • Angle: 90 Degrees
      • Base Knockback: 15
      • Knockback Growth: 30
  • Down Smash:
    • Hit 1 Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 15-18 => Frames 12-15
    • Hit 2 Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 35-38 => Frames 30-33
    • Hit 1 Angles Changed: 160/140/154/50 => 160/150/160/150
• Grabs:
  • Standing Grab Start-Up Decreased: Frames 7-8 => Frames 6-7
  • Standing Grab FAF Decreased: 36 Frames => 30 Frames
  • Standing Grab Range Increased by 2.5 Units
  • Dash Grab Start-Up Decreased: Frames 11-12 => Frames 9-10
  • Dash Grab FAF Decreased: 45 Frames => 40 Frames
  • Dash Grab Range Increased by 2 Units
  • Pivot Grab FAF Decreased: 42 Frames => 38 Frames
  • Pivot Grab Range Increased by 3 Units
• Throws:
  • Forward Throw:
    • Hit 2 Damage Increased: 8% => 11%
    • Knockback Growth Increased: 65 => 110
  • Back Throw:
    • Hit 2 Damage Increased: 5% => 10%
  • Up Throw:
    • Base Knockback Decreased: 70 => 30
    • Knockback Growth Decreased: 105 => 35
    • Angle Changed: 90 Degrees => 55 Degrees
  • Down Throw:
    • Base Knockback Decreased: 70 => 50
    • Knockback Growth Decreased: 50 => 25
    • Angle Changed: 65 Degrees => 85 Degrees
• Aerials:
  • Forward Aerial:
    • Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 14-19 => Frames 12-17
    • Auto-Cancel Frames Decreased: Frame 55 => Frame 27
  • Back Aerial:
    • Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 10-12 => Frames 8-10
  • Down Aerial:
    • Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 16-18 => Frames 14-16
    • Auto-Cancel Frames Decreased: Frame 32 => Frame 25
    • Damages Increased: 19/17% => 22/19%
• Specials:
  • Warlock Punch:
    • Normal Grounded Damage Increased: 30% => 35%
    • Normal Aerial Damage Increased: 38% => 42%
    • B-Reversed Grounded Damage Increased: 38% => 45%
    • B-Reversed Aerial Damage Increased: 40% => 60%
    • B-Reversed Grounded and Aerial Knockback Growth Increased: 100 => 150
  • Flame Choke:
    • Grounded Start-Up Decreased: Frames 16-30 => Frame 10-26
    • Grounded Grab Boxes Active Increased: Frame 10-26 => Frame 10-45
    • Aerial Start-Up Decreased: Frames 19-31 => Frames 13-25
    • Aerial Grab Boxes Active Increased: Frame 13-25 => Frame 13-39
    • Aerial Recovery Distance increased by 40%
  • Dark Dive:
    • Attack Knockback Growth Increased: 90 => 110
    • Aerial Recovery Vertical Distance increased by 40%
    • Aerial Recovery Horizontal Distance increased by 50%

Thanks to @KuroganeHammer having a mistake on Ganondorf's page with Dark Dive, I cannot tell if the Attack on Dark Dive means the final hit of the grab attack or the apex punch of the attack. Whichever one it was, dude, please fix that.

But as for Ganondorf and Link, my statements earlier about their movesets and mobility stand, they need the changes and I've become more lenient on the thoughts of others. I've even decreased many things with the characters over the course of time, and you'd notice it too.

Spoiler: Ryu

• Attribute Statistics:
  • Run Speed Decreased: 1.6 => 1.47
  • Air Speed Decreased: 1.12 => 1.08
  • Gravity Increased:0.12 => 0.1285
• Ground Moves [Normals]:
  • Up Tilt [Light]:
    • Start-Up Increased: Frames 3-6 => Frames 5-8
    • FAF Increased: 15 Frames => 22 Frames
    • Base Knockback Increased: 19 => 20
    • Knockback Growth Increased: 94 => 110
    • Angle Changed: 84/105 Degrees => 45/70 Degrees
  • Down Tilt [Light]:
    • Start-Up Increased: Frames 2-3 => Frames 4-5
    • FAF Increased: 16 Frames => 20 Frames
• Aerials:
  • Down Aerial:
    • Landing Lag Increased: 18 Frames => 27 Frames
• Specials:
  • Shoryuken:
    • • Light:
        • Damage Decreased: 13% => 10%
        • True Damage Decreased: 15.6% => 12%
      • Medium:
        • Damage Decreased: 14% => 11%
        • True Damage Decreased: 16.8% => 13.2%
      • Heavy:
        • Damage Decreased: 15% => 12%
        • True Damage Decreased: 18% => 14.4%
      • All:
        • Base Knockback Decreased: 80 => 70

Let's face it Ryu's moveset was too overpowering in a nutshell, but while this nerfs his tilting combo potential into True Shoryu, as well as D-Air shenanigans, we can essentially make Ryu players in this mod play smart. This, however, doesn't go against any other attacks that are good for Ryu, as well as other combos, so in the end, Ryu will be more balanced. As well, a gravity increase will have to keep Ryu players on edge with jumps and may decrease recovery.

Spoiler: Jigglypuff

• Attribute Statistics:
  • Jumpsquat Frames Decreased: 6 Frames => 4 Frames
• Smash Attacks:
  • Forward Smash:
    • Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 16-19 => Frames 12-15
    • FAF Decreased: 50 Frames => 42 Frames
    • Damage Increased: 15% => 16%
  • Up Smash:
    • Start-Up Frames Decreased: Frames 16-19 => Frames 12-15
    • FAF Decreased: 46 Frames => 38 Frames
  • Down Smash:
    • FAF Decreased: 49 Frames => 39 Frames
• Throws:
  • Back Throw:
    • Base Knockback Increased: 25 => 30
    • Knockback Growth Increased: 90 => 120
  • Up Throw:
    • Knockback Growth Decreased: 110 => 50
  • Down Throw:
    • Base Knockback Decreased: 45 => 25
    • Knockback Growth Decreased: 100 => 50
• Aerials:
  • Forward Aerial:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 8-9 => Frames 6-7
    • FAF Decreased: 37 Frames => 30 Frames
  • Back Aerial:
    • Start-Up Decreased: Frames 12-13 => Frame 9-10
• Specials:
  • Pound:
    • Hitbox Active Frames Increased: 13-28 => 8-33
    • FAF Decreased: 46 Frames => 37 Frames
  • Rest:
    • Hitbox Active Frames Increased: 2-4 => 1-8
    • Knockback Growth Increased: 66 => 74
    • Angle Changed: 88 Degrees => 30 Degrees

Basically the opposite of Ryu.

Ryu doesn't need anything nerfed besides Shoryuken.

 

[JWai]

Whoa. Just, whoa.

Dude, these changes are bad. Like, really bad. Some of these are way too extreme (the Ryu nerfs and Ganondorf buffs, for example).

 

[ZeusLink]

I'm surprised no one complained about Ryu, but whined about Cloud. Last time I checked, Ryu was higher than Cloud on the Official Tier List.

 

[SageX3]

Ryu doesn't need anything nerfed besides Shoryuken.[/QUOTE]
Why. Regular Shoryuken kills at reasonable percents,above 100%,. And true Shoryuken kills at about 20% earlier. But, unless you set them up in a down or up tilt combo, they are very punishable. Not to mention it's basically Ryu's only reliable kill option on stage. As forward smash is extremely slow and lagy and up smash is just a discount Shoryuken.

I'm surprised no one complained about Ryu, but whined about Cloud. Last time I checked, Ryu was higher than Cloud on the Official Tier List.

On who's tier list. The only person that has put Ryu above Cloud is ZeRo.

Dude, these changes are bad. Like, really bad. Some of these are way too extreme (the Ryu nerfs and Ganondorf buffs, for example).

Thank you. I thought it was only me who thought these changes were absurd.

 

[ZeusLink]

This one.

 

[SageX3]

This one.

First of all this tier list was from 4 patches and 4 months ago. Within that time span many tournaments have shown a notable absence of Ryu and M2K has always been getting top 8 with Cloud. And ZeRo only puts Ryu higher than Cloud is because of potential.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I'm surprised no one complained about Ryu, but whined about Cloud. Last time I checked, Ryu was higher than Cloud on the Official Tier List.

That tier list is about as credible as something from Eventhubs. I wouldn't use that for any kind of resource if I were you.

Why. Regular Shoryuken kills at reasonable percents,above 100%,. And true Shoryuken kills at about 20% earlier. But, unless you set them up in a down or up tilt combo, they are very punishable. Not to mention it's basically Ryu's only reliable kill option on stage. As forward smash is extremely slow and lagy and up smash is just a discount Shoryuken.

True Shoryuken is disgustingly powerful for a move that can be comboed into easily and that's invincible on startup. Nobody would complain if it got a slight nerf.

 

[SageX3]

That tier list is about as credible as something from Eventhubs. I wouldn't use that for any kind of resource if I were you.

Why. Regular Shoryuken kills at reasonable percents,above 100%,. And true Shoryuken kills at about 20% earlier. But, unless you set them up in a down or up tilt combo, they are very punishable. Not to mention it's basically Ryu's only reliable kill option on stage. As forward smash is extremely slow and lagy and up smash is just a discount Shoryuken.

True Shoryuken is disgustingly powerful for a move that can be comboed into easily and that's invincible on startup. Nobody would complain if it got a slight nerf.[/QUOTE]

That tier list is about as credible as something from Eventhubs. I wouldn't use that for any kind of resource if I were you.

True Shoryuken is disgustingly powerful for a move that can be comboed into easily and that's invincible on startup. Nobody would complain if it got a slight nerf.

I can understand a slight need for true Shoryuken such as maybe killing 10% later. But I'm talking about people trying to make it basically useless as a kill move.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

True Shoruken should kill like 10% later in the terms of this patch. Nothing else touched for him. You more or less completely control how strong his is solely with how soon that move kills.

Also take it from the people who are in the Competitive Impressions thread: ignore Larry. Admitted troll, no point in taking anything he says seriously.

SageX3 : much like with the other guy I pointed out, your font is too dark to read well. Dark colours and black background don't mix.

 

[KingJigglypuff]

I think at this point in the thread, I'd like to ask people to temporarily cease making suggestions and discuss what little changes I've made to the current characters and possibly which direction this project should go. As basically over 90% of this thread is just making suggestions, which is fine, but I'd like some discussion on the current changes to contrast. Though if you still want to make suggestions, I won't stop you.

Speaking of which, I might have another character to add soon, depending on circumstances.

-snip

I don't think I'd add a menu option for that if it were possible.

I'd prefer if star/screen KOs were removed completely. There doesn't need to be a fancy animation for dying of the top, just die.

Upward blast KOs are technically unintentional nerfs to some characters. Jigglypuff's Rest is the worst example of this, as you can get a KO with Rest, but almost instantly get revenge KO'd or severely punished. This could be fixed by restricting how often upward blast KOs occur.

 

[SageX3]

True Shoruken should kill like 10% later in the terms of this patch. Nothing else touched for him. You more or less completely control how strong his is solely with how soon that move kills.

Also take it from the people who are in the Competitive Impressions thread: ignore Larry. Admitted troll, no point in taking anything he says seriously.

SageX3 : much like with the other guy I pointed out, your font is too dark to read well. Dark colours and black background don't mix.

Sorry about the font. Thank you, I was hoping Larry was a troll.

 

[William5000000]

I don't think I'd add a menu option for that if it were possible.

Okay. But you at least get my point on what I'm saying about the Blast KOs at the top happening often, right?

 

[Gigan X3]

Let's not nerf Ryu. That's just dumb. Let's concentrate on buffing people instead.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Let's not nerf Ryu. That's just dumb. Let's concentrate on buffing people instead.

Giving the top X characters a light tap to bring them down slightly so its easier to bring the rest of the cast close to the same level isn't dumb. Its a way to make sure you don't overshoot the buffs. Gives you more wiggle room.

 

[KingJigglypuff]

Okay. But you at least get my point on what I'm saying about the Blast KOs at the top happening often, right?

I'd have to look and see if there's a parameter for the occurrence of upward blast KOs.

 

[William5000000]

I'd have to look and see if there's a parameter for the occurrence of upward blast KOs.

Okay. Please do, because right now, I'm the only one who's standing up for this, and I want some people to be happy about this type of thing.