Social Skyworld Hub - "Soaring through the Skys"

[Tito Maas]

Pit arrow gimping is a thing, but let's not act like these are Brawl arrows we're talking about. The percentage of confirmed arrow kills in competitive play isn't really that high. Due to the endlag, if you miss a single arrow then your opponent has probably already made it safely back to the ledge; and without the curvability of the Guiding Bow, it usually doesn't take more than an airdodge to miss your target.

Arrows in my experience are landed far more often on the ground anyway.

 

[ReRaze]

I think what Sakurai did with Dark Pit is very fitting. Now when deciding between Pit and Dark Pit it comes down to personal preference, I really can't say who is better or who does better in certain MU's, they are so similiar that it really depends on the players themselves. But now in a sense Pit is the consistent one, he has more kill options that are reliable as well as a projectile being a toned down but much more accurate weapon. Dark Pit on the other hand is well....edgy. He doesn't have Pit's reliability to consistently shoot and hit arrows nor does he have ftilt as a kill option but what he does have is a ridiculously good arm that kills extremely early under the right circumstances and makes up for his flaws.

I'm going to talk solely about their main differences, arms and arrows here.

With Pit you can play consistently until your opponent reaches that 100% benchmark where you can start going for kills reliably. Unlike Dark Pit, Pit's arrows allow him to hold his own against campy characters like Shiek and Link. You can comfortably get your opponent up to the percent needed to kill because you csn stop them from camping with your own arrows and when he does kill he doesn't have to worry about where the opponent is on the stage with his arm. With the characters with bad recovery a well placed arrow can gimp them quite easily and if you and even characters with a decent recovery can be edge guarded quite easily if you snatch their jump with an arrow. Arrows make up for Pit's struggle in killing heavies because most of them have bad recoveries.

Dark Pit may struggle a bit more in nuetral against characters like shiek and link because he can't outcamp them or stop them from camping. It will also be alot harder to approach and get in the percentage but luckily for him he doesnt need to get as much percent because the elctroshock arm allows him to kill much earlier than pit however this is limited because you need your opponent to be near the ledge. His arrows may not be as useful as Pit but the knocback annd angle of the elctroshock arm can often gimp or lead to gimps (by putting them in a terribly easy position to be edge guarded) on characters with not so amazing recoveries quite easily so he may not even have to use arrows to gimp them, Dark Pit shouldnt have too much trouble killing heavies compared to pit either because of the electroshock arm.

TL:DR Pit you can reliably kill opponemts at a higher percent. With arrows you are more likely to gimp people or setup gimps, Dark Pit get's earlier kills but it is harder for him though his arm gives him more opportunities for an edge guard or gimp. There really isnt much difference either makes on MU's so just pick your personal preference or whichever playstyle suits you better.

edit: sorry for any grammatical errors i know there are alot but I cbs fixing them right now, as long as you understand what I am saying. I just pulled an all nighter i cbs doing anything right now.

 

[Tito Maas]

I think what Sakurai did with Dark Pit is very fitting. Now when deciding between Pit and Dark Pit it comes down to personal preference, I really can't say who is better or who does better in certain MU's, they are so similiar that it really depends on the players themselves. But now in a sense Pit is the consistent one, he has more kill options that are reliable as well as a projectile being a toned down but much more accurate weapon. Dark Pit on the other hand is well....edgy. He doesn't have Pit's reliability to consistently shoot and hit arrows nor does he have ftilt as a kill option but what he does have is a ridiculously good arm that kills extremely early under the right circumstances and makes up for his flaws.

I'm going to talk solely about their main differences, arms and arrows here.

With Pit you can play consistently until your opponent reaches that 100% benchmark where you can start going for kills reliably. Unlike Dark Pit, Pit's arrows allow him to hold his own against campy characters like Shiek and Link. You can comfortably get your opponent up to the percent needed to kill because you csn stop them from camping with your own arrows and when he does kill he doesn't have to worry about where the opponent is on the stage with his arm. With the characters with bad recovery a well placed arrow can gimp them quite easily and if you and even characters with a decent recovery can be edge guarded quite easily if you snatch their jump with an arrow. Arrows make up for Pit's struggle in killing heavies because most of them have bad recoveries.

Dark Pit may struggle a bit more in nuetral against characters like shiek and link because he can't outcamp them or stop them from camping. It will also be alot harder to approach and get in the percentage but luckily for him he doesnt need to get as much percent because the elctroshock arm allows him to kill much earlier than pit however this is limited because you need your opponent to be near the ledge. His arrows may not be as useful as Pit but the knocback annd angle of the elctroshock arm can often gimp or lead to gimps (by putting them in a terribly easy position to be edge guarded) on characters with not so amazing recoveries quite easily so he may not even have to use arrows to gimp them, Dark Pit shouldnt have too much trouble killing heavies compared to pit either because of the electroshock arm.

TL:DR Pit you can reliably kill opponemts at a higher percent. With arrows you are more likely to gimp people or setup gimps, Dark Pit get's earlier kills but it is harder for him though his arm gives him more opportunities for an edge guard or gimp. There really isnt much difference either makes on MU's so just pick your personal preference or whichever playstyle suits you better.

edit: sorry for any grammatical errors i know there are alot but I cbs fixing them right now, as long as you understand what I am saying. I just pulled an all nighter i cbs doing anything right now.

I agree with a lot of this, but DP's arm doesn't really need to be anywhere near the ledge to kill reliably anymore. He actually kills earlier than Pit with the arm from anywhere on the stage.

But anyway, I'm just happy there's a reason to pick DP over Pit finally

 

[ReRaze]

I agree with a lot of this, but DP's arm doesn't really need to be anywhere near the ledge to kill reliably anymore. He actually kills earlier than Pit with the arm from anywhere on the stage.

But anyway, I'm just happy there's a reason to pick DP over Pit finally

Whoops did I say that, I mean't he needs to be near the ledge to get that reward of killing extremely early. But yeah he does kill reliably. Although I doubt his arm will kill as well from across the stage but then again you have other moves to kill in those situations I guess.

 

[Koiba]

Is it just me that some people just overrate Pit's arrows WAY too much?



Like "er muh gawd gimp time¡"

 

[ReRaze]

Is it just me that some people just overrate Pit's arrows WAY too much?



Like "er muh gawd gimp time¡"

I LIVE AND BREATHE MY ARROWS

Nah seriously they are actuslly really good if you know how to use and aim them, that extra but of knocback to kill, force airdodges so you can spike or fair people to death, followup after every attack just to keep the pressure, if you read and steal jump the opponent can't do much agains't pit offstage, you can use arrows to stop alot of recoveries too either gimping them entirely or slowing them down enough so that you can reach the opponent yourself, fullhop arrows are amazing in neutral especially to stop campy shieks. I actually prefer pit's arrows over every other projectile in the game except maybe aurasphere.

hahaha, "er muh gawd gimp time" describes me perfectly every time my opponent is offstage

 

[Koiba]

Did anyone in this thread mention how wierd the angel's look in their initial dash and the dash itself?


They start running front foot first and run with their toes pointed


Pit wai

 

[Tito Maas]

Is it just me that some people just overrate Pit's arrows WAY too much?



Like "er muh gawd gimp time¡"

Like I was saying:

Pit arrow gimping is a thing, but let's not act like these are Brawl arrows we're talking about. The percentage of confirmed arrow kills in competitive play isn't really that high. Due to the endlag, if you miss a single arrow then your opponent has probably already made it safely back to the ledge; and without the curvability of the Guiding Bow, it usually doesn't take more than an airdodge to miss your target.

Arrows in my experience are landed far more often on the ground anyway.

I get a ton of utility from Pit's arrows because of how I use them, but I get the least utility when using them to gimp offstage by far. Once again, gimping with arrows really isn't that prevalent in competitive Pit play, even by the best Pit users. Probably why Nairo opts for Dark Pit over regular Pit.

 

[Koiba]

I like it how in youtube comments people spell Pittoo like Pito, Pitto, Pitoo or something like that

And the other half of the comments say that he's Spanish er muh gawd guise

And another quarter is salty scrubs about him wasting a slot



Yay

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I actually prefer to gimp those characters with Guardian Orbitars, because you have to be a pretty specific distance away to gimp effectively due to the arc on Pit's arrows and the relatively small window to hit the character or PKT. The simplified version: if they're close to the wall, arrows will miss. If they're far from it, it's worth using the GO's. Though after the launch, arrows are effective at disrupting against Ness's path.

The matchup doesn't revolve around FTilt. I'd never tried to kill with Dark Pit's FTilt, but Pit's only kills at 130 with a tipper at the very edge of a stage. Might as well FThrow for all that.

You don't need curvy arrows to gimp Cloud when an Electroarm from the far side of the stage and an FAir will do the same thing.

I may still use Pit against Ness and Lucas. Possibly ZSS because of her mobility. But DP definitely has the advantage in more matchups in my mind, since a lot of the difference was based on the arms anyway.

But GOs won't gimp people as often as arrows can, and in a funny way unless you're fighting Little Mac.

Noone can say if Ftilt is revolved around in Cloud's MU since he hasn't been out for a month yet...besides, Arrows and Ftilt are so far alot more useful than Electroshock since they're not dumb enough to not expect one anymore(since it's "broken" now, pretty much everyone with a brain would know that DP mains will soon use side b...maybe even alot)

Electroshock doesn't really gimp since it'll take you to an upper corner, and arrows don't since...they won't do the same.

And Ftilt with tipper kill at 118-120% on Cloud(tested it on 5 different stages...same results). You don't really need FThrow with Cloud that often.

Also, since Pit's more balanced than everyone now, he has way more even matchups, with only very few bad ones compared to Pittoo(also he's more popular in the tournament scene thanks to Earth and somewhat Nairo)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Is it just me that some people just overrate Pit's arrows WAY too much?



Like "er muh gawd gimp time¡"

You're just too Edgy to understand

 

[Tito Maas]

But GOs won't gimp people as often as arrows can, and in a funny way unless you're fighting Little Mac.

Noone can say if Ftilt is revolved around in Cloud's MU since he hasn't been out for a month yet...besides, Arrows and Ftilt are so far alot more useful than Electroshock since they're not dumb enough to not expect one anymore(since it's "broken" now, pretty much everyone with a brain would know that DP mains will soon use side b...maybe even alot)

Electroshock doesn't really gimp since it'll take you to an upper corner, and arrows don't since...they won't do the same.

And Ftilt with tipper kill at 118-120% on Cloud(tested it on 5 different stages...same results). You don't really need FThrow with Cloud that often.

Also, since Pit's more balanced than everyone now, he has way more even matchups, with only very few bad ones compared to Pittoo(also he's more popular in the tournament scene thanks to Earth and somewhat Nairo)

FTilt isn't a central part of the Cloud matchup. That we can say confidently.

Electroarm is great for gimping because it puts opponents at a disadvantageous state offstage. Upperdash does not.

How does Dark Pit have any disadvantageous matchups in comparison to Pit?

 

[Zult]

I like both Pits!

 

[The Merc]

All this talk of arm and arrows and all I want is reduce endlag for ground arrows and reduce endlag for aerial Arms for both Angels.

 

[Tito Maas]

All this talk of arm and arrows and all I want is reduce endlag for ground arrows and reduce endlag for aerial Arms for both Angels.

You know you can save yourself from death when you SideB off the stage, right? Though I agree the endlag is high for no real reason lol

 

[TMNTSSB4]

FTilt isn't a central part of the Cloud matchup. That we can say confidently.

Electroarm is great for gimping because it puts opponents at a disadvantageous state offstage. Upperdash does not.

How does Dark Pit have any disadvantageous matchups in comparison to Pit?

Ya can't say...until atleast 2-3 months of Cloud being studied, and Pit's FTilt pretty much kills HIM WAY quicker than Pittoo's.

Yeah offstage, won't gimp everyone that had a bad recovery(Bowser, Ganon, Cloud without Limit Break, Ike, and Expand Dong could just get lucky and move back to the stage)

Shiek is one of the MUs Pit does better at, because arrows can change the game for alot of things(why else do you think Pit's been used in tourneys...and Earth got him to win a major japanese one, beating Ranai)

 

[Tito Maas]

Ya can't say...until atleast 2-3 months of Cloud being studied, and Pit's FTilt pretty much kills HIM WAY quicker than Pittoo's.

Yeah offstage, won't gimp everyone that had a bad recovery(Bowser, Ganon, Cloud without Limit Break, Ike, and Expand Dong could just get lucky and move back to the stage)

Shiek is one of the MUs Pit does better at, because arrows can change the game for alot of things(why else do you think Pit's been used in tourneys...and Earth got him to win a major japanese one, beating Ranai)

The Electroarm doesn't do the gimping by itself. It's follow-up aerials that do the finishing blow.

And I really wasn't aware that Pit was very often used in tourneys to begin with. And the ones who do aren't exactly specialists for arrow kills offstage

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The Electroarm doesn't do the gimping by itself. It's follow-up arrows that do the finishing blow.

And I really wasn't aware that Pit was very often used in tourneys to begin with. And the ones who do aren't exactly specialists for arrow kills offstage

That makes more sense than before

Also, there's alot of Pit mains lately...besides Earth of course

 

[ReRaze]

If you guys watched recent vids of Paseiriman and Earth playing there are some clips of them gimping people with arrows.

Anyways I have a question, which ways do you guy most often kill people? for me it's like 30% gimping/killing offstage, 30% with the upperdash arm and 20% at the ledge with fthrow and ftilt and I barely kill (like 10%) using my smash attacks since they often come off a hard read or punish. Recently though i've been using nair to usmash and it's working out great. Am I under usinng my smash attacks? do you often use them to finish stocks because I barely use fsmash, when do you often use fsmash?

 

[Tito Maas]

If you guys watched recent vids of Paseiriman and Earth playing there are some clips of them gimping people with arrows.

Anyways I have a question, which ways do you guy most often kill people? for me it's like 30% gimping/killing offstage, 30% with the upperdash arm and 20% at the ledge with fthrow and ftilt and I barely kill (like 10%) using my smash attacks since they often come off a hard read or punish. Recently though i've been using nair to usmash and it's working out great. Am I under usinng my smash attacks? do you often use them to finish stocks because I barely use fsmash, when do you often use fsmash?

Most of my kills are definitely FThrow-related.

I use FSmash the least. For kill purposes, USmash gets the most utility while DSmash kills are either super late or accidental. His FSmash is one of his worst kill options and I definitely recommend against using it often. You could win high level matches without using it at all.

 

[Koiba]

My offstage game is pretty non-existent lol


I think dats bad



Usmash tho

 

[Routa]

My offstage game is pretty non-existent lol


I think dats bad



Usmash tho

Dat moment when you don't have dem balls to go off-stage with Pit(s), but you go for off-stage edgeguard with Doc or go deep with Ike.

 

[Final-Fortress]

I picked up Smash for the first time in 4 months today... Is it bad that CPU's beat me?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I picked up Smash for the first time in 4 months today... Is it bad that CPU's beat me?

What have you done during this whOle 4 months

Dat moment when you don't have dem balls to go off-stage with Pit(s), but you go for off-stage edgeguard with Doc or go deep with Ike.

So true...which is why I always go offstage with a character that rivals Pit's game

If you guys watched recent vids of Paseiriman and Earth playing there are some clips of them gimping people with arrows.

Anyways I have a question, which ways do you guy most often kill people? for me it's like 30% gimping/killing offstage, 30% with the upperdash arm and 20% at the ledge with fthrow and ftilt and I barely kill (like 10%) using my smash attacks since they often come off a hard read or punish. Recently though i've been using nair to usmash and it's working out great. Am I under usinng my smash attacks? do you often use them to finish stocks because I barely use fsmash, when do you often use fsmash?

Upperdash, FThrow, Ftilt, Dair spike, GOs, Arrows, and nair to a jumping gimp(sometimes leading to an accidental GOs)are how I kill people

 

[Routa]

I picked up Smash for the first time in 4 months today... Is it bad that CPU's beat me?

If it is lvl 9 then no. If it is a lvl 1-7... Then yes.

If you ask me when it comes to training with CPU lvl 7 and 8 are the best training partners. They have "human enough" reactions to your inputs (lvl 9 will pretty much perfect shield your attacks) to test your reaction skills. Also lvl 8 Pit will D-throw you into U-smash, Nair and Uair. Neat, eh?

 

[LancerStaff]

Angle change or not but the truth is that aerial electroshock kills 15% earlier now which makes it a good kill option when you have rage and grounded version would be too risky. Also, i'm not sure what you are talking about but of course aerial side b is much safer than grounded.

Just sounded like you were saying aerial Electroshock got safer with the patch is all... And it's honestly not all that safe anyway. No, you're not getting immediately punished by smashes with the aerial version, but any decently mobile character can Uair you pretty easily and the landing lag means you're either eating a dash attack or dash grab unless you store it. Even if you do store it you basically can't use aerials until you use the lag and that's a pretty significant amount of time against any fast character. It's one of those things you can pull against people who don't really know the angels.

Is it just me that some people just overrate Pit's arrows WAY too much?

Like "er muh gawd gimp time¡"

Like Xacer said, Pit's a lot better against campy characters. Probably the most apparent example would be Robin.

In neutral, Robin's going to be using Arcfire a lot. Well, he would be anyway... Thankfully Arcfire only has half a hitbox and you can easily slip an arrow in, even between it and a platform. But since Pit can control his better he can stand closer to Arcfire and then rush in faster afterwards. Biggest thing is that when somebody gets launched, Pit can stop Robin from charging his thunder spells pretty easily. Most of the time Robin's lucky to even get Arcthunder or Thoron once against Pit, but then against Dark Pit he's probably going to get it six times or so. Either you can nearly deny Robin one of his best tools or hope you can get an early kill with Electroshock. Pit's just loads more consistent in this type of matchup.

Primarily Pit's good against campy characters or those especially weak to arrow gimps.
(lol)

Dark Pit's better against characters that can effectively nullify Pit's arrows or are weak to Electroshock gimps.


Ultimately Pit's the safer pick in a blind situation... But everybody not listed seems fairly even. Just note that if you don't get an early kill via Electroshock in basically any matchup Pit would of been the better choice because he's getting more damage with arrows.

 

[CHOMPY]

How would Sheik be an easier character to gimp? She would most likely have a spare jump, plus her godlike up B invincibility recovery would completely negate Pit's arrows. Villager is hard to gimp, due to pocket, balloons protecting Villager from arrows, and has the greatest recovery distance wise. Yoshi has super armor when he jumps, so it can bypass through Pits arrows with ease.

The rest I agree with.

What you want to do when shooting the arrows is to wait for them to airdodge, and then go for the gimp. Try to predict when they are going to jump, so you can shoot before they jump (if that makes sense). It's all about conditioning their movements, and that's how you can effectively gimp someone with your arrows off stage. Also, you may want to jump back one character length away, giving your self more room to shoot your arrows, so you can properly angle them upwards or downwards.

--

Not to get off the subject, but I'm calling out all of you guys to help me lend your spirit energy on something.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Just sounded like you were saying aerial Electroshock got safer with the patch is all... And it's honestly not all that safe anyway. No, you're not getting immediately punished by smashes with the aerial version, but any decently mobile character can Uair you pretty easily and the landing lag means you're either eating a dash attack or dash grab unless you store it. Even if you do store it you basically can't use aerials until you use the lag and that's a pretty significant amount of time against any fast character. It's one of those things you can pull against people who don't really know the angels.



Like Xacer said, Pit's a lot better against campy characters. Probably the most apparent example would be Robin.

In neutral, Robin's going to be using Arcfire a lot. Well, he would be anyway... Thankfully Arcfire only has half a hitbox and you can easily slip an arrow in, even between it and a platform. But since Pit can control his better he can stand closer to Arcfire and then rush in faster afterwards. Biggest thing is that when somebody gets launched, Pit can stop Robin from charging his thunder spells pretty easily. Most of the time Robin's lucky to even get Arcthunder or Thoron once against Pit, but then against Dark Pit he's probably going to get it six times or so. Either you can nearly deny Robin one of his best tools or hope you can get an early kill with Electroshock. Pit's just loads more consistent in this type of matchup.

Primarily Pit's good against campy characters or those especially weak to arrow gimps.
(lol)

Dark Pit's better against characters that can effectively nullify Pit's arrows or are weak to Electroshock gimps.


Ultimately Pit's the safer pick in a blind situation... But everybody not listed seems fairly even. Just note that if you don't get an early kill via Electroshock in basically any matchup Pit would of been the better choice because he's getting more damage with arrows.

So...Pit's "MU" with Pittoo is 51:49 9r something along the lines?

How would Sheik be an easier character to gimp? She would most likely have a spare jump, plus her godlike up B invincibility recovery would completely negate Pit's arrows. Villager is hard to gimp, due to pocket, balloons protecting Villager from arrows, and has the greatest recovery distance wise. Yoshi has super armor when he jumps, so it can bypass through Pits arrows with ease.

The rest I agree with.

What you want to do when shooting the arrows is to wait for them to airdodge, and then go for the gimp. Try to predict when they are going to jump, so you can shoot before they jump (if that makes sense). It's all about conditioning their movements, and that's how you can effectively gimp someone with your arrows off stage. Also, you may want to jump back one character length away, giving your self more room to shoot your arrows, so you can properly angle them upwards or downwards.

--

Not to get off the subject, but I'm calling out all of you guys to help me lend your spirit energy on something.

Pit does do better against Shiek than Dark Pit in general, so maybe that's the reason, and haven't Earth, Nairo, and Paseiriman gimp Shieks and Villagers with Pit before?

 

[Final-Fortress]

What have you done during this whOle 4 months

Uh... Been depressed, was busy and got insanely addicted to another video game?

If it is lvl 9 then no. If it is a lvl 1-7... Then yes.

If you ask me when it comes to training with CPU lvl 7 and 8 are the best training partners. They have "human enough" reactions to your inputs (lvl 9 will pretty much perfect shield your attacks) to test your reaction skills. Also lvl 8 Pit will D-throw you into U-smash, Nair and Uair. Neat, eh?

Uh... It was a level 6... I am a shameful scrub, I know.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Uh... Been depressed, was busy and got insanely addicted to another video game?


Uh... It was a level 6... I am a shameful scrub, I know.

No depression allowed...and become the A woman you're destined to be

 

[Dusk Pit]

Just sounded like you were saying aerial Electroshock got safer with the patch is all... And it's honestly not all that safe anyway. No, you're not getting immediately punished by smashes with the aerial version, but any decently mobile character can Uair you pretty easily and the landing lag means you're either eating a dash attack or dash grab unless you store it. Even if you do store it you basically can't use aerials until you use the lag and that's a pretty significant amount of time against any fast character. It's one of those things you can pull against people who don't really know the angels.



Like Xacer said, Pit's a lot better against campy characters. Probably the most apparent example would be Robin.

In neutral, Robin's going to be using Arcfire a lot. Well, he would be anyway... Thankfully Arcfire only has half a hitbox and you can easily slip an arrow in, even between it and a platform. But since Pit can control his better he can stand closer to Arcfire and then rush in faster afterwards. Biggest thing is that when somebody gets launched, Pit can stop Robin from charging his thunder spells pretty easily. Most of the time Robin's lucky to even get Arcthunder or Thoron once against Pit, but then against Dark Pit he's probably going to get it six times or so. Either you can nearly deny Robin one of his best tools or hope you can get an early kill with Electroshock. Pit's just loads more consistent in this type of matchup.

Primarily Pit's good against campy characters or those especially weak to arrow gimps.
(lol)

Dark Pit's better against characters that can effectively nullify Pit's arrows or are weak to Electroshock gimps.


Ultimately Pit's the safer pick in a blind situation... But everybody not listed seems fairly even. Just note that if you don't get an early kill via Electroshock in basically any matchup Pit would of been the better choice because he's getting more damage with arrows.

So yeah, the nasty lag just follows you after the move but there is a way to cancel it, 2 ways actually which I use. First off, after hitting someone's shield with aerial side b, you usually want to get as far as possible to avoid punish ( mixing it up is good too). Then as soon as you can move, I recommend jumping + air dodge and after that we can choose from 2 options to cancel the lag. First one is to shoot an arrow during your second jump which makes you land without lag. Second option is to use side b again to the opposite ledge so that you slide off of it which cancels the landing lag and you are free to do whatever you want.
Personally I prefer the latter, which is safer in most situations but of course you need to be aware of your enemy's movements all the time.

Also, you CAN use aerials after the side b and sometimes it is just better to punish the enemy with a dair and just land with that stupid lag.

All in all, aerial side b on shield is punishable but most of the times you get away without punish and if someone fast enough do manage to hit with an uair, they aren't usually as lethal as raw smashes or throws.

 

[Final-Fortress]

No depression allowed...and become the A woman you're destined to be

??? Okay then...? I'm just gonna... Go back.. To my other video game..

 

[The Merc]

You know you can save yourself from death when you SideB off the stage, right? Though I agree the endlag is high for no real reason lol

Actually a number of times I have still died of the bottom blast slide off the stage using side b dispite the fact I am mashing the jumping button.
Yeah, it just way to long for very little reason (only reason I can think is stopping Pit's recovery being super good)

 

[TMNTSSB4]

??? Okay then...? I'm just gonna... Go back.. To my other video game..

NO, you'll stay here and help murder all of Koiba and her ships

 

[useredsa]

I think problem with arrows are:

-People always shoot them while on stage. You can actually jump offstage while charging an arrow and force a frametrap situation (this can happen as well is ground but it won't lead to gimps), where if the arrow hits it leads into a fair and if not you can fair them. Just try it, go away with the arrow in hand.

-People tend to charge the arrows. Why so? If you don't charge them you can curve them to catch airdodges, so it's a 50/50, although they won't kill.

-People believe arrows kill like brawl. Arrows don't necesarily need to kill. If they force your opponent to recover low making it easier to land a dair for instance then they are worth. You can choose how they recover, and that's important.


I find arrows particurarly useful when the opponent is landing so that he lands with lagg or when juggling: a lot of people tend to fthrow even at lower percentages than kill ones thus stealthing the move; which is sometimes unuseful if you deal with a character like sheik who you won't be able to gimp. I'd rather upthrow them which deals +1% and sets them in a juggling position and throw arrows while they are really high. But the problem is people up throw and shoot in the ground so the opponent just needs to time an airdodge. What I do is jumping with arrows so I can doublejump and follow with an upair afterwards. It's the same idea, putting pressure and creating frametraps with arrows.

 

[The Merc]

Uh... Been depressed, was busy and got insanely addicted to another video game?


Uh... It was a level 6... I am a shameful scrub, I know.

Don't worry about it. You haven't played the game in 4 moths. Besides, if it makes you feel better, I still keep lossing to lv 8 cpus every now and then and i've been play smash basically non stop.

 

[Tito Maas]

I think problem with arrows are:

-People always shoot them while on stage. You can actually jump offstage while charging an arrow and force a frametrap situation (this can happen as well is ground but it won't lead to gimps), where if the arrow hits it leads into a fair and if not you can fair them. Just try it, go away with the arrow in hand.

-People tend to charge the arrows. Why so? If you don't charge them you can curve them to catch airdodges, so it's a 50/50, although they won't kill.

-People believe arrows kill like brawl. Arrows don't necesarily need to kill. If they force your opponent to recover low making it easier to land a dair for instance then they are worth. You can choose how they recover, and that's important.


I find arrows particurarly useful when the opponent is landing so that he lands with lagg or when juggling: a lot of people tend to fthrow even at lower percentages than kill ones thus stealthing the move; which is sometimes unuseful if you deal with a character like sheik who you won't be able to gimp. I'd rather upthrow them which deals +1% and sets them in a juggling position and throw arrows while they are really high. But the problem is people up throw and shoot in the ground so the opponent just needs to time an airdodge. What I do is jumping with arrows so I can doublejump and follow with an upair afterwards. It's the same idea, putting pressure and creating frametraps with arrows.

I'll definitely be keeping these tips in mind

 

[ReRaze]

Shooting arrows upwards (e.g after uthrow) have brawl's endlag i.e very little so you don't have to jump to create frame traps. It's much better to do it grounded too because if your opponent airdodges and lands they will have more endlag. Shooting an arrow upwards and hitting an opponent right above you true comboes into usmash and if they airdodge you get a punish anyway.

 

[LancerStaff]

How would Sheik be an easier character to gimp? She would most likely have a spare jump, plus her godlike up B invincibility recovery would completely negate Pit's arrows. Villager is hard to gimp, due to pocket, balloons protecting Villager from arrows, and has the greatest recovery distance wise. Yoshi has super armor when he jumps, so it can bypass through Pits arrows with ease.

The rest I agree with.

What you want to do when shooting the arrows is to wait for them to airdodge, and then go for the gimp. Try to predict when they are going to jump, so you can shoot before they jump (if that makes sense). It's all about conditioning their movements, and that's how you can effectively gimp someone with your arrows off stage. Also, you may want to jump back one character length away, giving your self more room to shoot your arrows, so you can properly angle them upwards or downwards.

--

Not to get off the subject, but I'm calling out all of you guys to help me lend your spirit energy on something.

And campy characters, Chompy. Although Villager isn't impossible to gimp with arrows... Usually I'll fire one and Dair him, but one arrow and then GOs would possibly be effective because he can't change directions as fast with just one balloon.

Hm, got a tournament coming up?

So...Pit's "MU" with Pittoo is 51:49 9r something along the lines?

Bit more then that... Pit outcamps Dark Pit and can mess with his recovery with arrows. I imagine it's possible for Pit to stuff Electroshock when used as a recovery, too, which would then mean Dark Pit's generally not living as long as Pit.

So yeah, the nasty lag just follows you after the move but there is a way to cancel it, 2 ways actually which I use. First off, after hitting someone's shield with aerial side b, you usually want to get as far as possible to avoid punish ( mixing it up is good too). Then as soon as you can move, I recommend jumping + air dodge and after that we can choose from 2 options to cancel the lag. First one is to shoot an arrow during your second jump which makes you land without lag. Second option is to use side b again to the opposite ledge so that you slide off of it which cancels the landing lag and you are free to do whatever you want.
Personally I prefer the latter, which is safer in most situations but of course you need to be aware of your enemy's movements all the time.

Also, you CAN use aerials after the side b and sometimes it is just better to punish the enemy with a dair and just land with that stupid lag.

All in all, aerial side b on shield is punishable but most of the times you get away without punish and if someone fast enough do manage to hit with an uair, they aren't usually as lethal as raw smashes or throws.

It's really not hard to work around this if you know what you're doing... If he has jumps, go ahead and shield because even a tippered Bair at max freshness will be hilariously unsafe with the RCO lag. Let Pittwo burn his jumps, then spotdodge and punish. At best you can try and use an arrow to catch the spotdodge, but you're still stuck with the lag.

With how much more powerful Electroshock is grounded I'd much rather use that against somebody who can punish the aerial attack properly.

 

[Dusk Pit]

And campy characters, Chompy. Although Villager isn't impossible to gimp with arrows... Usually I'll fire one and Dair him, but one arrow and then GOs would possibly be effective because he can't change directions as fast with just one balloon.

Hm, got a tournament coming up?



Bit more then that... Pit outcamps Dark Pit and can mess with his recovery with arrows. I imagine it's possible for Pit to stuff Electroshock when used as a recovery, too, which would then mean Dark Pit's generally not living as long as Pit.



It's really not hard to work around this if you know what you're doing... If he has jumps, go ahead and shield because even a tippered Bair at max freshness will be hilariously unsafe with the RCO lag. Let Pittwo burn his jumps, then spotdodge and punish. At best you can try and use an arrow to catch the spotdodge, but you're still stuck with the lag.

With how much more powerful Electroshock is grounded I'd much rather use that against somebody who can punish the aerial attack properly.

Eh... As I said, you can cancel the lag so there is no reason to land with it unless you know you can punish someone with an aerial.

Regarding to Pit Vs Dark Pit MU, it was pretty much even before the patch and it's even after the patch. They are still more or less the same character and Pit really can't gimp Dark Pit off stage with arrows so there is no real advantage in them.