Event - EVO 2013 (Breast Cancer Research Drive) Skullgirls Twitter account implies Melee not an "actual" fighting game

[zmx]

Fair enough but how do we know it was said by the official devs in the first place?

We don't know who's behind that Twitter account even if it's official. It doesn't have to be a developer.

On the stream from the little I watched Mike Z and the VAs said nothing negative about Smash. They actually said whoever wins, at least it's for a good cause.

 

[Revven]

Just because it's said all the time by less notable people doesn't mean it wasn't in bad taste. This was said by the developers of Skullgirls... not people of their community.

But then right after they went and made a tweet to suggest having both SG and SSBM at Evo: https://twitter.com/Skullgirls/status/294690585162436608

Soooooo.... take it as you will.

 

[BrandX]

SG at G3 was and is just an idea that had been tossed out there. We never committed to it in any way or ruled it out.

I have to say I think smashers being so petulant about this is a little disappointing.

I understand this, but the fact that we were even considered is a great honor. I dont want to lose this chance for us lol

 

[Todd Bonney]

I've always thought it was a moot point whether Melee is a fighting game or not. It's similar enough and tests all the same skills as "real" fighting games and more. Two characters on a 2D playing field trying to outwit, outmaneuver, outplay, and outlast the other.

IMO, Melee is not technically a fighting game; it is better.

 

[Revven]

I understand this, but the fact that we were even considered is a great honor. I dont want to lose this chance for us lol

The best way to make it so the TO(s) of the event know there's a great interest for it is to bring it to the attention of Skullgirls players who live in Cali (where Genesis 3 is being held) and get them to show the TO(s) that they want Skullgirls to be at Genesis 3. It takes more than one person from a community to get something like that going.

I can't imagine they would put Skullgirls in the event if there's zero interest in it from actual Skullgirls players. It's still up in the air, so you have like tons of time to make it known that it's wanted and desired.

 

[skarlet]

Skullgirls fan here (used to play a lot of melee a while back as well) I'd like to add that Mike Z and Alex Ahad, the big figureheads for SG were busy with donation drive stuff at the time the tweet was posted. The message probably came from marketing or Konami guys with no knowledge of the situation whatsoever.

 

[Shadow Huan]

You ever seen Mango play?

i have never seen mango miss a shine cancel/grab/waveshine into the shield... on shield... on purpose. because against good players that would be punished. just like mis-spacing something with marth on shield will get you punished. it has a lot to do with the block mechanics imo

How is this different from, say, UMvC3 where "doing something wrong/unsafe several times in a row in order to get into the opponents head" WILL get you killed and possibly even perfected?

'sup bubbaking?

imo, MvC3 isn't a good example because of that. the combo system in that game is bat**** bonkers lol (entertaining as all getout tho)

i'm not too familiar with SF or any other 2D fighters, i dislike them personally.

Soul Calibur is my series outside of Smash (i like Tekken but have never had a copy of any of them to actually practice with)

Soul Calibur 2 is my favorite one, and has several "mindgame" characters. the stances help a lot with mixups ect (too bad the GI in that game is OP)

but there are situations in that game (and the others) where you can do something on block WRONG just to condition your opponent into expecting it, then option selecting. even just this stuff is deeper than most of the mixups in melee, where you have two characters that have garunteed shield pressure as long as they can exicute

Not disagreeing with you, but how is this different from, say, SSFIV: AE or SFxT where entire games can end up being nothing but footsies and zoning?

i said that was part of what made it a fighting game, so we are actually in agreement lol

 

[Shimesaba]

Skullgirls fan here (used to play a lot of melee a while back as well) I'd like to add that Mike Z and Alex Ahad, the big figureheads for SG were busy with donation drive stuff at the time the tweet was posted. The message probably came from marketing or Konami guys with no knowledge of the situation whatsoever.

Nah, it's this dude. Looking at his posts on Neogaf from during the stream, he knew exactly what was up. "The time for class has passed!"

 

[ph00tbag]

No wonder Skullgirls was a bad game. The devs don't even know what an actual fighting game looks like.

 

[Marrowak]

If someone says "an actual game is coming for you" doesn't that imply that the other games that were coming for you weren't "actual games"?

Before skullgirls took the lead, wasn't ssbm's closest competitor in the donation drive a my little pony game thats not even finished being developed?

Perhaps they were implying that their game is an "actual" fighting game, in comparison to that MLP nonsense.

In any case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oScCgxuId98

 

[Pink Reaper]

This just in, talking about a twitter post is now more important than donating to try and stop cancer

#FreeIceClimber

 

[BrandX]

The best way to make it so the TO(s) of the event know there's a great interest for it is to bring it to the attention of Skullgirls players who live in Cali (where Genesis 3 is being held) and get them to show the TO(s) that they want Skullgirls to be at Genesis 3. It takes more than one person from a community to get something like that going.

I can't imagine they would put Skullgirls in the event if there's zero interest in it from actual Skullgirls players. It's still up in the air, so you have like tons of time to make it known that it's wanted and desired.

Very good idea, I'll probably spread it on the SRK forum.

 

[Djent]

Posted on SRK:

Yo, Smash community (and everyone else too).

I was busy during the entire insulting tweet thing, and I can't find it in the archives (?), but if that really came from us I would like to apologize. I don't run the Twitter but the person responsible has been sacked, or at least as close as you can get to sacking someone who isn't being paid in the first place, which is heavily reprimanded. :^S

I know it was intended as a joke, but it was in poor taste and that doesn't excuse it. I certainly consider Melee a legit fighting game, you can find lots of evidence for that in past statements I've made, and I wholeheartedly apologize. That negative sentiment does not represent the views of the Skullgirls team or (I hope) the community, nor should "Smash is not a fighting game" be anyone's view at this point, IMO.

I do sort of feel like Evo should accept both games at this point, but that's a lot of extra work for Evo. I also know news travels faster than corrections, but the Smash community has my utmost respect for the HUGE amount of support they've shown so far.

Once again, on behalf of the Skullgirls community and team, I apologize.

(I've always wanted to say "the person responsible has been sacked". It's not as much fun as it sounds.)

Mike_Z is ****ing legit.

 

[Djent]

Also on SRK

To the Smash folk in here, I just wanted to say that I never intended my tweet to be received the way it was.

As I've explained, it was meant as a joke and in good fun, but I wasn't aware of all the history there and clearly it touched a nerve. I thought a little salt would liven things up, and, well... it did that, just not in the way I expected.

We're obviously going to be doing everything we can to keep our lead, but everyone at Lab Zero is just incredibly surprised, happy and humbled that our fans have pulled us into first place, and still will be even if we "lose" this contest.

Lab Zero seem pretty cool in all honesty!

 

[BrandX]

*Phew* Thank god...

 

[GHNeko]

So now can we end the animosity towards the team and the game lol

as in

no more "**** sg" and "weeaboo virgin ******s" and things of that nature.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

What's kind of lame is how it isn't the Skullgirls community alone that is beating smash with donations. Its the fighting game community vs smash and smash is still holding its own. Pound for pound in a fair competition, the smash community would beat just about every other fighting game community in any support drive/fundraiser. Can't beat em all at once tho... sigh.

 

[stabbedbyanipple]

yes we can

 

[Revven]

What's kind of lame is how it isn't the Skullgirls community alone that is beating smash with donations. Its the fighting game community vs smash and smash is still holding its own. Pound for pound in a fair competition, the smash community would beat just about every other fighting game community in any support drive/fundraiser. Can't beat em all at once tho... sigh.

What? How is it the entire FGC, too? It's definitely not. Skullgirls fanbase kinda stretches beyond their tournament community afaik because it's an indie game. From what I've seen, it's just been how well the hardcore Skullgirls community is spreading the link to the donation.

 

[Scar]

Two things:

1. This thread is absolutely horrible
2. There is a difference between us being "oversensitive" and someone else being ignorant/irresponsible/thoughtless

Without addressing too much of point 1, I'd like to address point 2. I don't think that the majority opinion is that we're hurt by the comment itself, either through its content or tone.

Rather we are surprised that anyone of any significance displayed an incredible lack of knowledge in such a public setting. And we aren't even that surprised. Just surprised enough to notice and comment on it.

So then...

SG at G3 was and is just an idea that had been tossed out there. We never committed to it in any way or ruled it out.

I have to say I think smashers being so petulant about this is a little disappointing.

I would be surprised if "smashers" are by and large petulant about this (much less "so petulant") - I think it's only like the 10 people in this thread, and even of those I'd argue that we don't care much. Again, just caught a bit off guard - just enough to comment on it.

IMO SSBM as a community is about as callous as a group of people can get to accusations of being a "party game" or lacking some sort of depth. We as a community are so incredibly secure with regards to Melee's technical and strategic depth that when such comments are made the majority of us immediately know that the person behind it has no idea what they are talking about.

These are the kinds of things that we've gotten time and time again over the years that we actually just don't pay any attention to anymore:

well smash does lack certain mixups that other fighting games have and certain mindgames such as "doing something wrong/unsafe several times in a row in order to get into the opponents head" will generally get you killed rather than make the opponent second guess himself.

^an example of harmless ignorance

lmao suck it man children. Looks like your party game won't be at EVO.

^primarily trolling but also ignorant​

So, when on twitter in the middle of a very public fundraiser with 1300+ concurrent viewers watching, it came as a bit of a surprise that the most recent tweet from the official @Skullgirls twitter account implied that SSBM is not an actual fighting game. ESPECIALLY considering our reaction when the SG forums were in shambles after we raised $9k+ last week. Said again by Prog:

I just find it interesting how plans were being made for Skullgirls at Genesis 3 if they faltered, and then a member of high standing in their group dismiss our game (and by proxy our community).

And so...

Yo, Smash community...

This was a fantastic apology because it basically said that it was a joke in poor taste and that it doesn't reflect the opinion of the author and the SG community, and also focuses on how we can work together going forward. An admirable stance considering that we are doing this for charity and for the success of eSports.

To the Smash folk in here...

While this apology's sentiment is well-received, I remain convinced that the author completely misses the point by implying that the reception of the joke is the root of the problem:

• I never intended my tweet to be received the way it was
• I wasn't aware of all the history there and clearly it touched a nerve

TL;DR - It wasn't the tweet, it wasn't the reception, and it's not a big deal. It was just surprising enough to comment on the fact that you echoed an age-old piece of misinformation so publicly.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

What? How is it the entire FGC, too? It's definitely not. Skullgirls fanbase kinda stretches beyond their tournament community afaik because it's an indie game. From what I've seen, it's just been how well the hardcore Skullgirls community is spreading the link to the donation.

The FGC supports Skull Girls over Melee, that is no secret. Go to any skullgirls forum and you see people state this and offer up donations just to spite melee because it isn't a "real fighter." That isn't anything against Skull Girls, I'm just stating that the smash community as a whole is stronger than just about any other fighting game. This drive kind of proves it. If you think the Skull Girl community alone has funded this drive, you are kinda naive/overly optimistic lol.

 

[MajorMoses]

The FGC supports Skull Girls over Melee, that is no secret. Go to any skullgirls forum and you see people state this and offer up donations just to spite melee because it isn't a "real fighter." That isn't anything against Skull Girls, I'm just stating that the smash community as a whole is stronger than just about any other fighting game. This drive kind of proves it. If you think the Skull Girl community alone has funded this drive, you are kinda naive/overly optimistic lol.

Nobody thinks that the Skull Girl community got that much money by themselves. That being said, who the hell cares? Neither is ALL of our money coming from ourselves. Both communities are getting the word out to people who are only tangentially related to us. If you're going to sit here and complain about how they had however much more help from people outside their initial community, we really don't care.

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Nobody thinks that the Skull Girl community got that much money by themselves. That being said, who the hell cares? Neither is ALL of our money coming from ourselves. Both communities are getting the word out to people who are only tangentially related to us. If you're going to sit here and complain about how they had however much more help from people outside their initial community, we really don't care.

You shouldn't, I wouldn't. The FGC vs Smash thing just gets old to some of us and it was clearly a factor in this drive.

 

[bbb]

The FGC supports Skull Girls over Melee

the FGC hates both skullgirls and melee and good games

 

[GHNeko]

pretty much.

they troll games like kof and vf and gg.


if its not marvel or ae its done

 

[AmigoOne]

I'm telling you guys... Make your case on Reddit

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

the FGC hates both skullgirls and melee and good games

ya i do notice the FGC doesn't really know a good game when they see it lol. Aight, salt gone.

 

[Smiles]

The current FGC is going all button mashing/simplicity. God I wish some SF4/Tekken/SG player would pick up melee for just a second. I mean they're good games, but when you see COUNTLESS people playing said fighting games with they're thumbs on all 4 buttons doing decent against someone who took some time to learn tech skill, it makes you think that'd be impossible in melee....

GO MELEE

 

[Life]

I don't think we'll need Reddit. It's a gamble we don't really have to take, since we're basically neck and neck but we have the 1/31 "spirit bomb" fundraiser lined up already.

 

[smashmachine]

I don't think we'll need Reddit. It's a gamble we don't really have to take, since we're basically neck and neck but we have the 1/31 "spirit bomb" fundraiser lined up already.

they have a fundraiser too you know

 

[Dart!]

Post something on twitter to piss people off them pass it off as a joke.
Make an apology to cover ***.

Politics at its finest

 

[Kink-Link5]

The apology would be a little more alright if it wasn't full of excuses like "I didn't mean for you to take what I said wrong."

I'm not particularly phased by this, but it is just a little akin to using a black slur in the 70's "in good taste" because "they're use to that sort of talk." Especially disappointing hearing this sort of enabling talk from zmx. Just because it's said all the time doesn't make it suddenly okay for a representative of a fellow game to make that sort of statement.

I have to imagine the back-handed apology is all that's going to be said about it, but I'm glad that the devs stepped in to make it clear the statement was not a reflection of the rest of the family.

 

[JBoogieG]

I'm not particularly phased by this, but it is just a little akin to using a black slur in the 70's "in good taste" because "they're use to that sort of talk."

While I understand how such a tweet might make you unhappy I sure as hell don't think this comparison is even apt.

 

[Hokkaido]

I was a bit heated until I read the apologies by Mike Z and the guy who wrote the tweet himself- I realized that Mike was still broadcasting while the tweet was sent out, so I don't blame him at all. The Skullgirls community has been pretty good about it too as far as apologies and etc. goes, so the only person who I think made the mistake in this case is the guy in charge of the tweet (who, although apologized, didn't do anything good for either his own community or ours).

On the other hand, I think it was great as a morale booster for us, but at the same time I'm a little disappointed at how easy it is to rile some smashers up, even unintentionally.

 

[trash?]

I'm not particularly phased by this, but it is just a little akin to using a black slur in the 70's "in good taste" because "they're use to that sort of talk.

Yes, someone making fun of the game you play is exactly like centuries of slavery followed by long-term oppression that follows to this day, great critical thinking skills.

To all of you complaining: get the salt out of your mouth, it's unhealthy. If this is what's getting to you, I don't want to see what happens when you have to deal with the rest of the FGC. It'll be like a beatdown. A Pichu v Fox matchup.

 

[smashmachine]

well you can use this streamer to motivate yourselves instead

 

[CloneHat]

To all of you complaining: get the salt out of your mouth, it's unhealthy.

This is actually not true

 

[bubbaking]

I'm pretty sure we all expected it from stupid flamers and trolls.

We didn't really expect it from the developers.

Pretty much this. Then again, we have to remember that SG is a game made directly by and for the FG community, so its developers probably aren't like most Nintendo/Capcom/Namco developers that we're used to.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Yes, someone making fun of the game you play is exactly like centuries of slavery followed by long-term oppression that follows to this day, great critical thinking skills.

Odd that you say I'm lacking critical thinking skills when you're focusing on the wrong part of the comparison. I never mentioned anything about the nature of the remark, just that it was something that was common place at the time.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/5d/Venn-diagram-association-fallacy-01.svg

I'm not comparing the two as a whole, just that they share a mutual trait, being "It's okay to do because it happens all the time"

What's the definition of situational irony?


It could be any group of people over any particular thing. Saying Romani people shouldn't be offended by the word gyp because it's so commonly used. Saying fans of east-asian cultures are weeaboos and that they're just butt hurt over the phrase for no reason because it's an established phrase. Making jokes about Irish drunkards because it's tongue-in-cheek and in good jest.

All of which on top of the fact that it's a statement made by a person with a position of authority representing an entire community and development team, followed by a backhanded apology that puts the blame on the group of people being offended.

It isn't what was said.

It is the connotation of what was said, who said it, and the way it was handled.

Best of luck to the rest of both sides, however.

 

[bubbaking]

Whatever. Mike Z made his apology, and it was a pretty good one at that. I guess we should just drop it and punish them hard by spanking them in this EVO race.