Skies of Arcadia Mafia - Game Over! Indy (AM) Wins!

[#HBC | Ryker]

btw ryker/laundry

had you really thought j was recruited or did you just suggest that to get away with ****ting on a mason like the other scum did?

We knew that at least one scum targeted J last night. We knew there was no kill, for the second night in a row. We knew that the titular member of the scum team was the one targeting J.

We figured he was recruited, ESPECIALLY when it was lined up with his play going into that phase.

 

[#HBC | J]

Xonar, I was thinking indies would come up as innocent like most games because he previously claimed that I was aligned with Orbo who was godfather.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

;-;

Oh well. AM, fantastic play and if I came into toDay even with no vote on me, I was thinking Lego was Indy>you.

How was this small set-up balanced with 5 scum? Oh well I'll do shout outs when I get to a CPU. I'm trying to figure out how town could have won after we lynched Gheb/Rockin? There was no way to in that 4 person MyLo which is ;-;

You shouldn't have lynched Rockin. Town lynched him for little to no reason and the wagon was 3/4s scum.

 

[#HBC | J]

True but that was only our 2nd ML. The rest of the game we lynched scum 4 days out of 6.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

WHAT DID MARSHY'S ROLE DO!?!?!?!?!?!?

caps

 

[#HBC | marshy]

town was far too weakminded after i died except for j. rockin lynch was **** and everyone other than j just ****rode scum

 

[#HBC | marshy]

i could redirect every town power role once during the game. thats why i screamed for vig to shoot d1 so i could vig a ***** later in the game

 

[Spaghebti]

rockin lynch was awful. idk how you guys believed orbo and rockin were both scum

edit: our role was kind of whack... would it have beat out rykers puppeteering/redirection?

 

[Raziek]

Ok, now for my final comments:

Marshmellowman (Vyse)

You two played fantastic, and were a pleasure to watch. You had two of the three mafia pinned midway through D2, and really only got wrecked by the strongman kill on D3.

As for your role, I appreciate Marshy pointing out to me how that could have broken the setup in combination with the Voyeur. Would definitely be the role I'm least satisfied with and I would redesign it if I were to run this again. I had intended it to be a role that worked in combination with the Indy re-direction.

Rake/Nabe (Pow)

You didn't play, and wasted one of Town's stronger roles, unfortunately.

Legolas (Xonar/Sword) (Fina)

Your reads were off for much of the game, from what I remember. Your double-vote impacted almost nothing during the early-mid game due to poor placement (albeit that's largely due to Gheb avoiding lynch somehow), and it unfortunately got used against you in LyLo.

You spent a lot of time aimlessly tunneling Rockin, and that hurt your presence in the game.

Soup~ (Cupil)

You played well. You roleblocked/voteblocked scum twice, although unfortunately the Indy went before you in NAR, so it didn't matter on Night 1. I can't remember you standing out a ton during Day Phase, but I definitely had no problems with your play, well done Soup.

Rockin (Domingo)

I don't know exactly why everyone found you so scummy, and unfortunately you didn't make much of an impact. One of Town's 2 mislynches. We talked about your results already, but you correctly identified KevinM's character, but never really made the flavor connection that he was most likely to be the recruit. Correctly identified Fina (not hard), I forget if you identified the Mason before or after their claim.

Liked this role in the setup, it ended up in the hands of a player who knew the flavor well enough to make use of it. You could have played better, but it wasn't completely awful.

J (Jao)

You played quite well D1 and 2, but D3 after the recruit happened visibly shook you up. Coasting on dat mason claim. Don't know if there was very much you could have done after the Rockin ML to save the game.

LAK (Mao)

You guys were essentially a non-presence and only survived on your claim. I'm not really sure what I can tell you to improve, as nothing in particular stood out.

JTB (Ilchymis)

One of the strongest players in the game on D1 and D2, and then you threw the game impossibly hard on D3. Got caught on Rockin for no visible reason other than coasting, which I believe we talked about already. Protected "wrong" both nights, with the Indy hilariously redirecting the scum NK at your protects. Smart protects, unfortunately Gheb's choices are hard to predict.

Protected Indy N3 and almost saved him from a horrible fate, as AM hadn't pulled the NK that night (he tried J) and scum almost chose to kill him.

Lawrence (KevinM)

You didn't really do a whole lot either. Pretty much as apathetic as Lawrence is. Played more on the days that mattered, unfortunately you were in a bad position with both masons alive and AM running the thread. I have to ask. You didn't try to offer N2, so I assume that's because you didn't want to try to join scum at that point? Also, was the role PM clear enough? I feel like it may have been ambiguous as to your purpose, and that's something I'd fix in the future.

Gheb (Belleza)

You've already said pretty much everything I have to say. You can't rely constantly on bussing your entire team, and you were extraordinarily fake on D3 or 4, I forget which.

Gorf (De Loco)

Not much of an impact on the game, not entirely sure why. Just sub-par play from a usually stronger player.

Orboknown/Zen (Galcian)

Orbo didn't play, which left Zen in a crappy position. I really appreciate the replacement and attempt. Fisherman claim was pretty bad though.

AM (Ryker/Laundry)

How UNBELIEVABLY HAPPY I was to have you draw Indy. You guys played alright D1, hit a rough patch D2, but pulled through and controlled the game from there onwards. You pulled the NK into Doc protects Twice, but dominated Night actions lategame, which was probably the single most important factor in your win.

You also allowed me to write the most entertaining flavors on D3 and D7 with Vyse's death and Fina's.

Overall game comments:

Nabe lynch was dumb, you guys had a correct Gorf wagon and lynched someone who hadn't posted, wasted a day and a lynch, as well as one of Town's powerful roles.

I had hoped giving scum powerful flavor claims was enough. I think it was, because AM played it flawlessly. I'm not sure if Mafia getting ****ed had to do with Gorf/Gheb/Zen not researching their flavors at all, or because of my not giving them a role claim. I feel like giving them a plausible role claim would have revealed too much information about the setup.

As for the whole recruit business. Macman makes a damn good point on that affecting Kevin's play, and that's something I hadn't considered. For the record, Kevin was the only recruitable player in the setup. I also wasn't expecting Town to completely flip their **** because I thought people would realize I wasn't a ******* mod who would include a recruiter without a restriction of some kind. Town needed their mason clears, and I wouldn't **** that over. That's mod meta though.

**** I'd redesign:

Recruiter/Recruitee reworked entirely
Rework Vyse entirely.

I'm very happy with how everything else panned out in terms of night actions and setup interaction.

The idea behind Ramirez was a VERY powerful role for a background player. He knew one of the scum and could plan accordingly, looking for connections using his starting point. This gave him indirect control over the NK. I feel like it might be swingy based on the strength of the Galcian playerslot. If Orbo had been the recruiter, and Gheb as Galcian, he'd probably have been less likely to submit the NKs, giving Indy less control.

All things said, I'm aware the setup was swingy. Didn't expect the recruit to be as likely as it was. Rockin lynch doomed Town, that was one of the strongest roles they had.

I'll be happy to answer any questions.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

True but that was only our 2nd ML. The rest of the game we lynched scum 4 days out of 6.

Yes, but you also never successfully utilized any of your offensive PRs. Tracker accomplished nothing. Marshy died without doing anything. Soup only roleblocked me (unsuccessfully) and KevMo (who wasn't doing anything).

Even masons got mudslung and the double voter never pushed for his reads.

I'm not saying the set-up wasn't mafia sided (not indy sided, **** you guys), but it's not as bad as it's made out to be. The sheer number of people eliminated as reasonable lynch suspects by late game was obscene, you just didn't work together at all (and Roleblocker/Masons outed themselves WAAAAAAAY too fast).

 

[Raziek]

rockin lynch was awful. idk how you guys believed orbo and rockin were both scum

edit: our role was kind of whack... would it have beat out rykers puppeteering/redirection?

You were just below AM on NAR. You would have redirected every Townie except the one Ryker redirected. Which, I suppose, kind of alleviates the breaking Marshy mentioned to me.

Either way, I feel like I goofed on your role and it was poorly designed, but as a first-time mod, it was a learning experience.

 

[Raziek]

Real talk though, Ryker cracked almost everything in this setup midway through D2. Gonna grab the PMs he sent me.

 

[#HBC | J]

It deffo wasn't Indy sided but it was mafia-sided waaay much so.

Raz, that's the thing that shook me. In a small set-up, a mason team possibly being comprimised due to Recruiter BS? Uuuugh my paranoia went from normal scum-hunting to frantic. After i regained my footing, it was better but haha not something I wanna experience anytime soon.

 

[Spaghebti]

ryker, i dont think our pr would have accomplished much. JTB did protect correctly both days.

it wasn't indy sided. you def did a good-*** job, but it was partially by piggy-backing off the good **** town did in finding scum. And then there was a doublevoter at the end for you to manipulate.

yea we shudda went with gorf d1 oh wells

-mac

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I want to post about role claims being superior to character claims, but I don't want to type it, so I'm just gonna tell him on Skype.

@Mac - Didn't know what it was.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I did check my character's flavor ;_;
I felt my fakeclaim was decent.

 

[#HBC | J]

Oh yeah, I wanna apologize for some of the thing set-up things I said in the QT, Raz. I just got flustered due to me not wanting to believe some things. >.<

@Macman: I remember pleading for a Gorf lynch D1. ;-;

 

[Raziek]

Going to highlight everything wrong in red, right in green, ambiguous in yellow.

This is a resource for myself as much as for your entertainment.

Indy:

AM - Indy Redirector

Scum:

Gorf - Mafia Chemist
Orbo - Mafia Godfather *

Town:

Nabe -Voyuer
J - Town Mason (Recruited to scum)
LAK - Town Mason
JTB - Town Chemist (Jack of All Trades)
Soup - Town Roleblocker (Possibly scum, probably not)
??? - Investigative (Probably tracker)
??? - Protective (May simply be folded into JoaT, probably not)
??? - Passive Role (Maybe BP if weak protective. Maybe Patriot although unlikely. Maybe miller or grave digger.) <<This was the recruitable>

Either or:
??? - Anonymous Double Voter
??? - Voteblocker ** <<Folded into Soup>>
Frustrating blank in set-up. Probably something weak like the double vote, voteblocker, or passive role used as VT replacement. Possibly another potion themed role. <<That was Marshy>>

* - If Orbo is recruiter, then probably (although not certainly) 2 man mafia. If Orbo is not recruiter, then three man mafia.
** - Orbo may only be able to recruit when a mate is dead, in which case, he may be the voteblocker


JTB's role might very well give me the set-up.
Marshy is not the protective. Marshy is not the doublevoter.
Rockin is not the voteblocker.
Kevin is not the doublevoter. KevMo may have a weird track on Marshy. KevMo may be the third scum.
Gheb is not the doublevoter.

Given what we know, this narrows down doublevoter the most.

Doublevoter is not AM, Nabe, Gorf, J, LAK, Rockin, JTB, Soup, Marshy, Kevin, or Gheb. This means the doublevoter is either Legolas or Rockin if the doublevoter is town.



Further eliminations to follow further deliberation and reveals.

Night Action Cheat Sheet:

Fact:

Night 1

Aggro Med redirects Orbo to Marshy
Orbo targets Marshy if Orbo did anything
Soup roleblocks Aggro Med
Gorf targets Orbo with potion. Almost certainly actually did something, contrary to Gorf/Orbo's claim. <<Orbo rejected>>
JTB does something. This question mark is annoying. Could JTB be the voteblocker??????????
????? doublevotes KevMo.
????? voteblocks Aggro Med.

Night 2

Aggro Med redirects Orbo at J.
Orbo targets J if Orbo did anything.
Soup does not roleblock. Could Soup voteblock in addition to roleblock??????????
JTB does something else. Sinking suspicion that he targteted J, but am unsure.
????? doublevotes Gheb.
????? (Probably Orbo) recruites ????? (Probably J)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

ryker, i dont think our pr would have accomplished much. JTB did protect correctly both days.

it wasn't indy sided. you def did a good-*** job, but it was partially by piggy-backing off the good **** town did in finding scum. And then there was a doublevoter at the end for you to manipulate.

yea we shudda went with gorf d1 oh wells

-mac

Gorf kinda crumpled while we weren't there. I had nothing to do with that. I did, however, get Orbo with my scum confirm and then pinned the remaining scum so that I could manipulate the set-up to leave me enough mislynches to use that double vote to win the game.

 

[Rockin]

well it was only 5 scum if they recruited. which they happened to do.

Kevin's role was pretty whack though. it gave him no incentive to like try hard as town cuz he mighta gotten recruited. but if he tried to get recruited and tried to hurt town, the recruiter may have never gotten to him so it just sucked no matter what kevin did


ryker i wudda ****rode you hard. i thought you were obv town d3 (after j/lak/jtb etc ofc)

I like to think of it as a different kind of 'godfather.' If he had the intention of catching scum, then finding out his NA choice was a mafia member, he could still easily maintaine that mindset when it comes to future days. EE would know what I'm talking about if he was to see this.

Dislike the lynch on me, but eh well...*shrugs* town wanted my lynch and that is what happen. Hopefully town was satisfied afterwards....

Raz - As explained before, I was very cautious on the discovery. I didn't want to mention it unless I had concrete proof. In this game called 'Mega Mafia' ran by Scav, the setup was made to counterattack people who flavor hunted, and my god most of town (including myself) were flavor hunting at the time. It came to the point that scum was able to easily destroy us because of how distracted we were. Ever since then, I've been more cautious about flavor digging.

I didn't guess right on N2's result. I thought it was Gilder (the guy with the guns that joins your party).

I feel the claims given to scum were good. The only problem was that Gorf and Orb were not only being unhelpful, but they (least Orbo was) was being inactive to the point where they decided to rid him/them and didn't give a **** about their claim. This is the same thing that happened with me, but there was more stuff involved

In the beginning, I've told people my opinion on the orbo wagon/lynch choice and was totally totally against it (especially after when Gorf was kinda attacking Orbo). I jumped on the gorf lynch mid D1, even though I told my like of a Legolas lynch. With both of them flipping scum, it made me look INCREDIBLY bad.

also guys: stop trying to read me unless ya want a headache later on. Also, just because you see me 'coast' /=/scum. It just means I don't feel like posting on that day and just want to read. Gawd.

 

[Raziek]

http://www.quicktopic.com/47/H/i3nnv7J2rKbb

Mafia QT

 

[Spaghebti]

Oh yeah, I wanna apologize for some of the thing set-up things I said in the QT, Raz. I just got flustered due to me not wanting to believe some things. >.<

@Macman: I remember pleading for a Gorf lynch D1. ;-;

you and marshmellowman were pretty much in sync all game. till that d3 nonsense =p

 

[Raziek]

All things said, I'm happy with how it turned out, and my favorite role, that I designed the setup around, won, so there's that.

 

[#HBC | J]

LaK did really good as well in my opinion.

 

[Raziek]

LaK did really good as well in my opinion.

Err.... how? I don't remember seeing much impact in thread, and as someone with no night action, that's all they have. You might have masongoggles on.

 

[JTB]

also guys: stop trying to read me unless ya want a headache later on.

stop being scummy the game is over

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

LAK did fine, after Day 2.

Before then, not so much.

He had a post Day 2 with Lego, Gheb, and Rockin as scum and I remember telling Alex, "Welcome to late game, Ruy."

 

[#HBC | J]

They had good reads and EVERYONE had them as obv-town. If it wasnt for that and them semi-saving my *** when it was close to getting thrown for near lynch.

 

[Rockin]

To mention about the setup.

I really thought the game was interesting and the flavors matched the roles people have very very well (something that I try to do in my games). I was very estatic to join this game (but was a bit heart broken that I wasn't Vyse or some known bad guy. That's okay though: I can spot treasure! 8D)

Thank you again for hosting this game raz. It sucks that both factions got handicapped with player slots.

 

[Spaghebti]

lol nvm

 

[Raziek]

Mmm, maybe my memory's just being selective on LAK then. Apologies.

 

[John2k4]

J go read the last of the chat logs I posted in the Mason QT. =P

 

[#HBC | J]

T_T

That just made me feel entirely sad.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Don't discount Jonh either, he helped a lot with our hydra and let me finalize reads.

Messed up on Orbo, sorry Soup, and thought Rockin was fake between the two claims. I did lynch him too fast since I thought there was no Indy in this set-up with a recruiter.

I assumed things about the set-up and got it wrong.

I was right about Gheb and Gorf. Kevin would have gotten there by PoE.

Still gg, AM should get MvP.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Mmm, maybe my memory's just being selective on LAK then. Apologies.

I don't blame you for thinking that, i just don't stand out among the power players.

Heck we probs were the second worst slot skill wise in this game.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Bad reads?

I understand not really making much of an impact on the game Raz, and our reads were ****ed up Day 1. However after my reread Day 2 they weren't so bad. I thought scum was between one of Gheb/Rockin, but not both, I had KevinM and Gorf as null scum, and I dropped Orb to null (later dropped him flat out to scum the beginning of Day 3). I was wrong on KevinM (at the time) and Rockin (but he was pretty scummy I mean come on).

I have to apologize my absence this game, I really just never got into this game. This entire game from the beginning to the end felt like a chore to me. This game never really felt like "fun" to me, which is a damn shame because it seems like some other players were really able to get into it.

I think part of the reason for me not being able to get into the game was just how fast paced it moved. I can't keep up with you kids, the attention span that is required to analyze the game thoroughly is simply too much for me.

Anyways, legit shootouts to AM. SUPER convincing play Day 3 onwards. Catching all the other scum like a boss and then manipulating it so that the double voter was in endgame (you did do this, correct?) was brilliant. Honestly AM should just skip the red dice and get gold dice for this IMAO.

I kinda see what J is getting at. While AM definitely deserved to win, at the same time, I don't really feel like town deserved to lose. The standard is is that town should lose after 3 mislynches in small games and the fact that town was so on point with so many of its lynches but still lost after only two mislynches is bleh. Yes the Rockin lynch was dumb but town should get some breathing room for it's mistakes.

AM is also right that town had too many clears going into late game. This is kinda why small games like this shouldn't have all PRs. I remember awhile ago Gheb told me that he didn't like the philosophy of "make EVERYONE OP so that no one is OP," becasuse once OP role A that's suppose to balance out OP role B dies, then OP role B becomes broken. This game is kind of an example of that, in this case for the town who manged to get so many clears late game.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

/brofist macman
/brofist j
/brofist soup
/brofist jtb
/brofist kevin for trying to be recruited by us
/brofist gheb for trying to recruit us
/brofist am for daykilling us and having the decency to at least go out in baller fashion. better than getting nightkilled

 

[#HBC | marshy]

edit: our role was kind of whack... would it have beat out rykers puppeteering/redirection?

lol this. we kept trying to come up with uses for it after we realized there was no vig after n1 but decided itd be better used later in the game if at all

 

[Raziek]

It was kinda hastily throw together once I had everything else nailed down. Would have done that role differently for sure.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Not much to say, haven't read since D1. Well done to AM, you guys know how to play indy and it consistently shows.