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Shun's House of Pancakes -Closed. What you see is what you get

What Should I Do Next?


  • Total voters
    136

GigasOverlord

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
158
Location
British Columbia, Canada
Yep. There's a guy on Brawl Vault who is doing an amazing model, and he's letting me do my vibrant textures as a part of his big release. You'll likely find over 12 Other M Samus suits to choose from.
This. All of my this. As much as I don't like Other M's story, the gameplay was solid and Samus' armor design was slick as hell. I am extremely excited to see what Shun does with Samus' textures. Just for reference, there are a ton of suits that Samus has that could help with your pallet work.

Also according to Shun, he is so down to Earth that he is literally inside it.
 

PseudoTypical

Smash Lord
Joined
May 5, 2013
Messages
1,326
Location
Pennsylvania
This. All of my this. As much as I don't like Other M's story, the gameplay was solid and Samus' armor design was slick as hell. I am extremely excited to see what Shun does with Samus' textures. Just for reference, there are a ton of suits that Samus has that could help with your pallet work.

Also according to Shun, he is so down to Earth that he is literally inside it.
The guy actually had a bunch of textures already done referencing Samus's suits. I'm sure Shun will use them at least to some extent.

Inside it to the point that he doesn't know what it is.
 

Sixth-Sense

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
689
Location
San Francisco, Venezuela (not the famous one)
Yo i just want to say that squirtle, ivy, shielda, ganon and Link are ****ing flantastic man, seriously

but to be real with you as a lurker, i'm not digging lucario or wolf, at all actually, but still lucario seems tricky to get the hang of and wolf seems impossible to correctly make an alternate color that has more than two colors

just wanna give my feedback, hope you can keep on making amazing textures 'TILL THE END OF TIME
 

Shun_one

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
910
Location
Addison, IL
NNID
not_shun_one
Yo i just want to say that squirtle, ivy, shielda, ganon and Link are ****ing flantastic man, seriously

but to be real with you as a lurker, i'm not digging lucario or wolf, at all actually, but still lucario seems tricky to get the hang of and wolf seems impossible to correctly make an alternate color that has more than two colors

just wanna give my feedback, hope you can keep on making amazing textures 'TILL THE END OF TIME
Sure, thanks for dropping by. Wolf, is the hardest character to make colors for in the entire game. Compound that, if you want to make interesting designs that vary from each other and still adhere to some sort of coherence.

I'm glad you mentioned which ones you don't like, because hey, I can't please everybody. To you I say, use what you like, skip what you don't. No skin off my back, and thanks for dropping by anyhow.

I'll keep on truckin' till I finish all of my plans, so thanks for the support.
 

Sixth-Sense

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
689
Location
San Francisco, Venezuela (not the famous one)
Sure, thanks for dropping by. Wolf, is the hardest character to make colors for in the entire game. Compound that, if you want to make interesting designs that vary from each other and still adhere to some sort of coherence.

I'm glad you mentioned which ones you don't like, because hey, I can't please everybody. To you I say, use what you like, skip what you don't. No skin off my back, and thanks for dropping by anyhow.

I'll keep on truckin' till I finish all of my plans, so thanks for the support.
no worries, i know its impossible to get everyone to like what you do, but so far the ones i do like (the majority) are so amazingly well done that i'm sure no one else is gonna release something that i like, and i have you to thank for that

oh and i'm not new, i check this place everyday, i just spoke my mind now bc i never realized how ****ing hard it is to correctly make an HQ texture with a great color combo :crying: especially wolf actually, maybe i'll start posting more here although i don't want to seem like a hater

oh and thanks again for the tutorials! that pretty much answered all my questions as to how to change things

later man
 

uCooL

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
747
Location
Manteca, California
NNID
SuperMurio
...Ya know what? I'll give you one too.



Did you know you earned yourself a personal texture? Just choose:
1. Your character of choice
2. A color combination

Dude thanks Shun! I really appreciate it!!

1. Wolf (I know you just did wolf but he is my favorite, ill understand if you need sometime away from him before you get to it, no prob!)
2. Charcoal and Neon orange

I keep cycling through all the wolf textures you made while im playing. They're freakin beautiful man!
 

Shun_one

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
910
Location
Addison, IL
NNID
not_shun_one
Oh wow, thank you. But just what to ask for? Maybe a wilted/decaying styled Ivysaur.
If that's the one ya one, that's the one ya get.

Dude thanks Shun! I really appreciate it!!

1. Wolf (I know you just did wolf but he is my favorite, ill understand if you need sometime away from him before you get to it, no prob!)
2. Charcoal and Neon orange

I keep cycling through all the wolf textures you made while im playing. They're freakin beautiful man!
Sure thing. It's even easier to work if it's a character I've already done.
 

yogurtgun1245

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
183
Location
Delaware
If that's the one ya one, that's the one ya get.
That would be perfect, thinking grey and kinda purpleish for the vines and bulb. Not sure what body color would look right with that, though. From what I've seen from you I trust you can come up with something quite aesthetically pleasing with that.
 

PolarisWizard

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 3, 2013
Messages
13
Man, I've been following this thread for a bit and I have to say, I love all of your textures, especially the ones for the MOTHER characters. When you are finished with all of them, I'm gonna download the **** out of them (I want uniformity from the entire roster first, ya know). Can't wait to see you finish these textures.
 

Shun_one

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
910
Location
Addison, IL
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not_shun_one
So, I thought I'd give some insight into the thought process that goes into making these, for those curious and those who want to make their own. This should satisfy any of you who are curious about it. Long post, so brace yourself.

Step 1: Character analysis
First thing I do, is study the characters design. For this, I'll typically pull up various official renditions of said character, be they art, models, figurines, or whatever. Once I've gotten a hold of these, I then study the Brawl model & their respective alternate colors to get a feel for what sort of restrictions the designers had to adhere to. It's mostly in studying the Brawl recolors that I get the most insight as far as what makes the characters design really work. Once you've got an idea of how the colors are used to highlight certain aspects, then it becomes easy to design your own costumes. This is a quote from myself I made a long while ago about Captain Falcon design for Project Maritime when we were having problems:

As for Falcon, first, Devicer, Xeno, let me give you guys a hug. This guy, is probably harder than the Spacies. Even studying his vBrawl costumes, all the extra details and such jump all over the place and it's madness I tell you, madness! Anyway, some consistencies I've noticed:

- Helmet is never the primary costume color (IE, green costume helmet is never green)
- Helmet and lower shoulder-pad are always the same color
- Sometimes fore-arms and gloves are different, sometimes not
- forearms and collar are always the same
- upper-shoulder pad and gloves usually the same color
Hopefully this paints a good picture of how to break-down and analyze what aspects of a characters design are meant to stand out as primary. Secondly, it's important to know these things so when you want to break them, you know what you're doing and trying to draw attention to.

:sonic:
Most of us aren't happy with Sonic's alts, myself included, but while making my own I found myself saying "I wish I could make his homing trail red/green/yellow" and at that point I realized that was part of the reason why his recolors are all shades of blue. I referenced this with Sonic colors, and found that different colored Sonic's use different trails in that game, but Brawl doesn't have that luxury. This is just a small way that the developers tried to compensate for some of the engines limitations, and perhaps a bit of Sega's insistence on how to handle Sonic.



Step 2: Original Costume
After finishing my "homework", so to speak, now it's time to develop the most important costume of the character: The Default. By now, I've grasped which aspects of which designs Brawl has borrowed from and can better judge which colors I want to change. For example, Link is clearly his Twilight Princess iteration, but Marth is still utilizing his Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem design. Knowing this is important, because it gives us an idea of how vibrant the colors should be in relation to the other characters in the game. Some characters that have a more animated style will use heavier saturation, while the more realistic ones use careful balances of saturation and brightness/contrast to achieve the effect.

It's a tough call to make as far as what design elements to blend, especially when a character has various appearances that are al slightly different. That said, I'd like to highlight three characters in regards to default modification that should help you with what I think about.

:link2:
Link is Twilight Princess Link, no doubt about that. However, Twilight Princess uses muted colors, much like Brawl, for most of the game. This wouldn't do for a Vibrant Project, so I instead I gained some insight by using the Zelda Wii U Tech Demo, and Smash 4's Link designs. Smash 4's Link is a broader representation of Link, in that he isn't clearly one Link or the other (even though most of his design screams Twilight Princess). Using that as a guide, I was able to get a good feel for what to do in regards to his skin, hair, and tunic.

:luigi2:
Luigi was the first character I decided to do when I started this project. That said, there are plenty of different images of Luigi freely floating around, but each one does has it's nuances in shade of green and blue used. I may actually revisit him soon, for one reason: my Luigi is based off of Super Mario World Luigi. I did this as a reference to the original Smash where-in Luigi's jeans were more purple as opposed to blue. Cookies to those of you who noticed this.

:marth:
Marth is a very interesting character to work with for two reasons: First, his design in Smash Bros is loosely based on his Mystery of the Emblem appearance, but it's largely original. Second, he does not have much in the way of concept art that show-cases the appearance he's based off of in Smash. While studying Marth, you can see that Smash teams design uses much more muted blues instead of his purely blue tunic that can be seen across all of the games. For that reason, we have a dilemma as far as his default is concerned. Do we aim for a look closer to his original appearance or stick with what the Smash team envisioned and use other characters as a reference for how much color we add?



Step 3: Brawl Alts
Now that I've done the original, making the proper adjustments to the rest of a characters costumes is a simple matter for the most part. It's only when I run into inconsistencies that things get a bit complicated, and that's where all the homework from before comes in. A good example of this, is Captain Falcon, who's alternate costumes in Brawl sort of jumped details around and there was no real consistency that I could discern. Because of that, I made various small edits to his other costumes that brought the designs together in terms of coherence with the original costume. Some characters to highlight here:

:metaknight:
Meta Knight's costumes are primarily from Kirby's Air Ride, for one. Because of this, I didn't want to change them too much, so I instead settled for small tweaks like the color of his mask, shoes, and gloves. These edits are probably hard to notice at a quick glance, but when you look closer, they have a big impact on what colors stand out and which don't.

:toonlink:
Toon Link' is an interesting character to work with because he's from a cel-shaded game. This means that, no matter what I do, his design won't reflect the one from his games unless I completely change the way he's been done. I didn't want to do this, because at it's core, this is a Brawl mod and I want to stick to the idea that "this is what Brawl would be if it used more vibrant colors". It's a boon and a curse at times, but it's one of the reasons Toon Link only got one custom costume.



Step 4: Original Designs
When I decide to do an original design, there are primarily two reasons: Either the original doesn't serve it's purpose (team colors primarily) or I have a specific idea in mind for a recolor. Either way, when I decide to make one I then consider my options and potential themes I could use that would make an interesting texture. Another self-imposed rule of mine, is to try and make "interesting and varied designs that have yet to be explored". Because of this, it can become a real pain trying to think of combinations that have yet to be tried both in the vault and within this pack itself. This also complicates some characters ten fold, of which I'll get to in a moment. It's important to note that, while I do have themes I aim for on occasion, I don't stick to a set theme for a set character at all times. Sometimes, it's best to switch up what I'm referencing in order to keep my mind thinking of unexplored ideas so I don't get burned out.

:wolf:
Wolf is one of the hardest characters to design for because his original design is very busy. Wolf's got lots of small details that affect the over-all look of his design in big ways, and if you're not careful, they can ruin what you set out to do. This is made even harder when I want to preserve the original design as much as possible and still vary the team color designs. I almost released some simpler alts that featured only primary colors and one secondary, but I thought this was too simple a solution and ventured into quad-color territory. Each of Wolf's original designs used a 4-Color rule, in that I'd choose 4 colors to work with before I got to work. Even still, it was tough deciding which part should be which color and I'm not 100% satisfied with my results.

:zelda:
Zelda was a character that I had specific ideas in mind when I started. Because of this, her recolors look a touch more "focused" because I was aiming for some very specific things. This is an important thing to keep in mind when designing alternate costumes: know what you want it to do. You need to know what color you want to stand out, which you don't want to stand out, and how you want them to work together if you want to keep your designs interesting. You have to remember that, for the most part, players won't be seeing all of the tiny details you added, so you'll have to use colors to bring your ideas to their attention while they play. But while you want them to notice, you don't want them to keep noticing.

A good phrase I used when designing HUDs was "If they don't notice it's different, I did my job well." This applies somewhat to textures as well, mainly in reference to the Red, Green, and Blue alts. These are team colors, so players should be able to identify which team they're on with a quick glace. If they can't do that because the design is too busy, then perhaps bump it to another slot and design a different costume for the team color. Paying attention to the Brawl alts helps with this, because each one highlights specific elements of a character for team battles. Examples include, Ness' Hat, Ike's Cape, Captain Falcon's Suit .etc. Identify traits like these when you want to design for teams. It will help you out.

TL:DR. Here's the rules I follow when designing for this project:
1. Adhere to Brawls style as much as possible
2. Make Interesting and Varied Designs within a character
3. Stick to a characters established design themes unless specifically aiming to counter them
4. Team colors must properly represent their team as referenced by Brawl's default costumes

I'm sure there are a few rules that I haven't thought about, but I can always come back to this later. Maybe I should go back and add pictures to it? That all sums up my thought process when I design a custom texture for any particular project. If you look back at my work, you can see that I didn't always think this way but gained the knowledge gradually. I can say that, each texture of mine, especially when I revisit a character, is meant to top the last batch that I made. Sometimes I get it, usually I don't, but I enjoy trying because it's fun.

To those of you who read the whole thing, well, gosh I'm embarrassed now. I hope all of this can inspire some of you to jump on in and make your own textures, or at least give you a better appreciation to those who try to make their own. This is just my way of doing things, but don't be afraid to find your own.
 

PseudoTypical

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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That does give me more respect and a better understanding of what goes into your work. I might have to read up on it sometime, because it seems really interesting.
 

Galaga

Smash 3 Dev Team
Joined
Feb 8, 2013
Messages
227
3DS FC
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Vibrant Creative Process Writeup
Great post dude, nice to have some insight on the creative process. I hope others learn from this and make some more great textures.
 

yogurtgun1245

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
183
Location
Delaware
I've wanted to learn how to texture in the past. However, my Wii is very finicky so it makes it hard to test the textures. In addition I wouldn't have a way to generate previews of any sort.
 

Shun_one

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
910
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Addison, IL
NNID
not_shun_one
That does give me more respect and a better understanding of what goes into your work. I might have to read up on it sometime, because it seems really interesting.
Glad it did anything for you at all. I definitely recommend giving it a try. It can be fun so long as you approach it as such.

Great post dude, nice to have some insight on the creative process. I hope others learn from this and make some more great textures.
Thanks a bunch. I'm hoping to spur some other folks around here that "Hey, you can do it too!"

Definitely a very thorough thought process. Also enlightening.
It enlightened me when I realized how much stuff I consider when I make these. I hadn't realized it.

I've wanted to learn how to texture in the past. However, my Wii is very finicky so it makes it hard to test the textures. In addition I wouldn't have a way to generate previews of any sort.
This is where the buddy system comes in. Find a buddy, or heck, just ask me to take previews screen for you. It's always more fun working in groups, after all.

Progress Report:
Ranger Ike: Red team color at Draft #1, Green team basically done
Prince Marth: vBrawl Blue team alt complete, still juggling ideas for the default
-
Next Batch:
Wario, Snake, R.O.B.
 

SwordsRbroken

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Messages
104
So mind if i ask what your plans for Ike are? Are you just texturing his default model, or is there another model you're using as well?
 

Shun_one

Smash Ace
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I'm really curious what you'll do with Snake, especially with his original slot. I love him as a character but hate that he's so bland in comparison to the rest of the cast, even before your Vibrant textures.
For default Snake, imagine if he was in Metroid colors-wise. I won't do anything too crazy with his default, but his other textures...

Holy shiz that really helps! Btw what color combos do you consider or your thought process on normal textures? it'd really help me cuz right now i have no idea how to do an entirely new texture :confused:
Normal textures? I use the same thought process, just without so many restrictions. What you'll want to do, is pick a color combination you like and divide it up like this:
Primary color: White (for core elements to a characters design I.E. Ike's tunic)
Secondary color: Blue (for secondary design elements, like Ike's cape, bandana, belts, etc.)
Third color: Yellow (for when you have more complex characters with more design elements, this is a secondary color, for your secondary color)

Just have fun with it and do what you think looks cool. At the end of the day, unless you're designing for a project, just do whatever you think looks cool. These tips are just things that'll make other people think it looks too.

EDIT: A few decent color combos that typically work
Hero: White, Blue, yellow
Anti hero: Black, red, white
Royal: Navy blue, purple, gold
Mars: Orange-red, cream, brown/black
Purple: Violet/Orchid, light-blue, black

You can swap up the functions of each of the colors, but good combo's are typically 2 or 3 colors. I normally use 3, unless it's a Mario character. They only need 2 in most cases. Who are you working on?

So mind if i ask what your plans for Ike are? Are you just texturing his default model, or is there another model you're using as well?
The plan for Ike and Marth

Ike:
Ranger and Hero are planned at the moment. I'm gonna finish the original first though.

Marth:
Prince and Awakening are planned

They'll probably get more stuff later on though.
 

Pwnz0rz Man

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Knowing Shun, anything he does to Snake will be a vast improvement over the original.

I'm looking forward to seeing both Marths, as well as the Ikes. No idea what Hero Ike looks like myself, so it will be a treat.
 

Sixth-Sense

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 28, 2012
Messages
689
Location
San Francisco, Venezuela (not the famous one)
Normal textures? I use the same thought process, just without so many restrictions. What you'll want to do, is pick a color combination you like and divide it up like this:
Primary color: White (for core elements to a characters design I.E. Ike's tunic)
Secondary color: Blue (for secondary design elements, like Ike's cape, bandana, belts, etc.)
Third color: Yellow (for when you have more complex characters with more design elements, this is a secondary color, for your secondary color)

Just have fun with it and do what you think looks cool. At the end of the day, unless you're designing for a project, just do whatever you think looks cool. These tips are just things that'll make other people think it looks too.

EDIT: A few decent color combos that typically work
Hero: White, Blue, yellow
Anti hero: Black, red, white
Royal: Navy blue, purple, gold
Mars: Orange-red, cream, brown/black
Purple: Violet/Orchid, light-blue, black

You can swap up the functions of each of the colors, but good combo's are typically 2 or 3 colors. I normally use 3, unless it's a Mario character. They only need 2 in most cases. Who are you working on?
Now this really helps out, i'm just trying to think about a combo for fox/Falcon since they are my favorite and i'd like to do recolors for them as well, as in complete recolors like what you do.

one more question: does you use GIMP? today i've just been downloading all kinds of videos to make things in GIMP and that way make cool textures for the characters/stages
 

Shun_one

Smash Ace
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Oh em gee! I almost died when I read this for some reason
I am having a hard time picturing this, but I'm excited anyway!
Knowing Shun, anything he does to Snake will be a vast improvement over the original.

I'm looking forward to seeing both Marths, as well as the Ikes. No idea what Hero Ike looks like myself, so it will be a treat.
You guys are weird.

But Pwnz0rz, if you've never seen Hero Ike, just imagine an Ike that's as manly as Captain Falcon and there you go.

Now this really helps out, i'm just trying to think about a combo for fox/Falcon since they are my favorite and i'd like to do recolors for them as well, as in complete recolors like what you do.

one more question: does you use GIMP? today i've just been downloading all kinds of videos to make things in GIMP and that way make cool textures for the characters/stages
Fox and Falcon? Real quick:

Fox:
Primary color: Jacket
Secondary Color: Pants, boots
Third Color: Armor plates

Falcon
Primary color: Suit
Secondary Color: Helmet, Shoulder pads, Belts
Third Color: Use at your discretion.

I primarily use Photoshop, but I dabble in GIMP from time to time. So long as you can make it do what you want, don't sweat the program too much. For reference, SJS still uses Photoshop 7 and produces some amazing work.
 

Pwnz0rz Man

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You guys are weird.

But Pwnz0rz, if you've never seen Hero Ike, just imagine an Ike that's as manly as Captain Falcon and there you go.
Ike as manly as Captain Falcon, is that even possible? He may fight for his friends, but he doesn't show me his moves.
 

Amazerommu

Smash Lord
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Ike as manly as Captain Falcon, is that even possible? He may fight for his friends, but he doesn't show me his moves.
Now this really made me die laughing! LOL! However I did look him up... and that's pretty much the best way to describe him... He's all... like... burlesque and what not... if that's the right word... Probably isn't.
 

Pwnz0rz Man

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Now this really made me die laughing! LOL! However I did look him up... and that's pretty much the best way to describe him... He's all... like... burlesque and what not... if that's the right word... Probably isn't.
Hero Ike doesn't look too bad, I don't know if I'd compare him quite to Captain Falcon since Ike's clothing doesn't seem to be as form fitting, but it works. I'd be curious if an Awakening style Ike would ever be in the works myself. (Mostly because I still haven't seen art of him from Awakening that doesn't look like he's a got a sword for an arm. I hope he doesn't, I really do.)
 

Amazerommu

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Hero Ike doesn't look too bad, I don't know if I'd compare him quite to Captain Falcon since Ike's clothing doesn't seem to be as form fitting, but it works. I'd be curious if an Awakening style Ike would ever be in the works myself. (Mostly because I still haven't seen art of him from Awakening that doesn't look like he's a got a sword for an arm. I hope he doesn't, I really do.)
Sword for an arm!?
- Looks up 'Awakening Ike' on Google -

Oh my gosh. What even is that?
 

Amazerommu

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LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! Oh my gosh you all are cracking me up today! That CaptainFalconYes oh my gosh! I let it play all the way through and laughed the whole time!

Edit: I wish I could like that post as many times as he says "YES!"
 

Raccoon Chuck

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I love that explanation, it really helps get an idea on how to make a texture have an effect, without feeling you've strayed to far away from the original goal of something. Very good Shun, I love this small tutorial. :D
 

GigasOverlord

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
158
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British Columbia, Canada
Okay, I have my color idea.

Meta Knight
Black as the primary color (body, mask, shoes), this kind of green for the secondary color (cape, shoulders, oven mitts).
If possible, could you give him that cool silver sword like on your Dark Meta Knight?
Also, would it be possible to give him red eyes like in his Brawl blue?

I'm super excited to have a texture made by you. Would it be possible to have a CSP made later for it?
 

Shun_one

Smash Ace
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I love that explanation, it really helps get an idea on how to make a texture have an effect, without feeling you've strayed to far away from the original goal of something. Very good Shun, I love this small tutorial. :D
Thanks man. It's even more useful to have it all written down for me, so maybe later on I'll add pictures and make it real nice.

Okay, I have my color idea.

Meta Knight
Black as the primary color (body, mask, shoes), this kind of green for the secondary color (cape, shoulders, oven mitts).
If possible, could you give him that cool silver sword like on your Dark Meta Knight?
Also, would it be possible to give him red eyes like in his Brawl blue?

I'm super excited to have a texture made by you. Would it be possible to have a CSP made later for it?
You got it. As for a CSP, I guess I can make a request of SJS when I finish it.

Also, it is weird seeing my own terminology used.
 
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