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I don't know about that. I definitely understand the character at a high level as well as on a theoretical level, which is why I feel comfortable talking about him competitively, but there are quite a few holes in my game that I need to patch up. Always work to do. (Also, there are a few really good Mega Mans on the boards that I have yet to really see much of in action)
@Berserker.
- I'm literally a scientist. That is literally my job. So, as far as I'm concerned, you won that tournament. Because science.
I know the feeling. That's basically how i feel about Shulk, except i'm probably not on as high of a level of understanding for Shulk like you are with MM. If i was, i'd probably be more skilled like say Jerm/DistantKingdom is with him, lol.
Stahp. Breaking shields is my favorite. It's what my 3 secondaries can do. DK's the king of it, Marth has shieldbreaker (but that's really it), and Samus can charge shot>super missile for a clean break.
Stahp. Breaking shields is my favorite. It's what my 3 secondaries can do. DK's the king of it, Marth has shieldbreaker (but that's really it), and Samus can charge shot>super missile for a clean break.
Then you better abuse the crap out of Buster if you wanna pull it off with Shulk. It rarely happens with me TBH, more often than not i'll get a Shield Break out of Bowser Bomb more than i will out of Buster Shulk.
Owch =/. You've tried more than once I figure? Anyways, you can usually go to a local video store and have them repair the disk for you. I had Family Video repair my Brawl disk, which was completely unplayable due to freezing whenever I selected a character. The person didn't even charge me the 5$ which is the usual price for the repair, since she was not sure if it worked or not. It did though.
With pitch changed or not? Assuming with pitch changed (more common), ×1.25 sounds a little too unnaturally high for some of the instruments. I'm more of a fan of ×1.122 because it doesn't sound so unnatural (it's also in tune, 2 half steps up ). On this topic though, I have been experimenting around with changing the speeds of Xenoblade songs.
Gaur Plains actually sounds neat slowed down. At ×0.793 it's 4 half steps down and sounds pretty grand imo. Memories sounds fantastically beautiful at that same speed. Reminiscence isn't bad like that either, but something more useful with that song is playing it +2 half steps (×1.122) puts it in the same key as Memories. This is something useful to know because then you can then play along to it on the piano if you know Memories (which I do!).
Alright. I got to the part of the night where 80% of the people who join the For Glory lobby, leave because they see an English name and are worried about lag. Shulk night 1 is officially over. (err... that was 45 minutes ago)
Speed>Buster is a lot harder than I anticipated. It worked well against zoners, after I got past their walls, but against more rounded close combat fighters the switching to buster took a little longer than I wanted it to. It still worked decently, but it definitely needs faster mashing and good multi-tasking because you're kind of giving your opponent a quick break in your pressure. I didn't even attempt to try and art-cancel landing lag and stuff. A few times when I'd try to do Speed>Buster, I would be forced to shield before I could get to Buster... which led to switching to Shield art. But then it got me thinking about the Shield art a little bit more...
Disclaimer: This could be because I'm playing on For Glory, but I found some decent success with what follows. Also, this probably could go somewhere other than the social thread... but meh.
When I have my opponent is offstage (but I'm not quick enough to edge guard) or on the ledge, I intentionally switch to Shield art. The mobility isn't too much of an issue, since my opponent's options are limited, and the shield art allows me to keep my positioning better if I do end up getting hit. If I get them off, I'll buffer the MA cancel during the ending animation of the move I just hit them with, start the activation for the Jump art as soon as possible, jump off and edge guard. By the time I'm ready to double jump, the art will be active and I can proceed from there.
I did a search in the Monado thread, and it seems like you guys picked up on how it makes some moves not safe on hit. But I'm pretty sure using Shield in this way hasn't been discussed. I think I might have experienced that a couple times and why this is potentially a viable strategy.
[collapse=Example]Little Mac's air side-B can be punished on hit against Shield Shulk by ftilt when Shulk is at 30% (tested in training mode with a computer, so I am not actually confident about this example). If you are okay with him hitting you so you trade, you can focus on shutting down his other options. This makes your ledge game stronger.[/collapse]
I was suppose to make a thread dedicated to Monado shield but I lack the resources (another 3DS or a Wii U) to test this
Then agaaaain, you guys are cool and all. Masonomace has checked on Bowser's f-smash so far and said that it's unsafe on hit against shield art. I'd probably try doing this character by character. Shield vs X's move or something like that
An alternate, more theoretical way of doing that is to come up with a model that factors in knockback, angle, hitstun, and end lag of your opponent's moves to find what you can punish and can't punish with what moves. That way you can apply it to different characters and at different %'s for Shulk or different amounts of rage.
stupid finals got me completely disconnected from the Shulk's thread... oh well just one more...
btw guys I come with a little dilemma I have.
I think we have all heard the phrase: "Shulk is an Ike with more options" or something similar along those lines.
I have been a lot of For Glory as its the only way I can play with other people (China doesn't know whats Smash...) and I have noticed that while lag is an issue I am having problem figuring out the correct way to play with Shulk in the different Arts.
I am feeling a lot of trouble finding the right way to play the neutral game with Shulk but ironically with Ike this is pretty clear and not so hard to do. These are the conclusions I have got from playing with both chars:
Ike has less mobility than Shulk but I feel Ike has better combos or strings up close with the opponent thanks to his dthrow, nair, jab, and dtilt. On the other hand, Shulk combos or strings rely more in being in momentum for the moves to combo into one another and this is clear based on the trajectory most of our moves have. TLDR. Ike combos are more vertical oriented while Shulk combos are more horizontal which makes it harder IMO for Monado Boy.
Ike's aerials while shorter in range are easier to connect together and Ike have a better balance between slow and fast aerials while Shulk's definitely destroy the entire roster in range but the aerials doesn't have the same "chemistry"as Ike's aerials. For example, if you hit a nair with Ike, its almost guaranteed a followup while Shulk's nair unless is in a certain MArt and depending of the positioning it may get a followup but the most we get is getting the opponent in a unfavorable position.
Ike's play-style goes around punishing foes with small but powerful combos and most of the times these same combos leave Ike with a good positioning to try a different string while Shulk I feel most of the time feels limited because most of the time I end close to the edge or outside of the stage which then means instead of a followup I need to focus in recovering.
Maybe it is because I am an Ike main in PM and I have more experience with his moveset but right now I feel our neutral game is underwhelming compared with Ike (which is not that bad considering Ike is a great char. in this game) but it may be because I am not playing Shulk the right way.
So fellow Homs can you help me understand what am I overlooking from Shulk's neutral game?
Shulk's neutral game is average. Not awful but situational is probably the best way to word it. Like every art has to be played differently. Speed is pure rushdown which can do jump combos but the opponent has to be at a higher % (Some jump combos that require more vertical reach are not doable with speed ex: u-tilt->f-air->air slash). Buster has to be placed at mid-range, taking advantage of the range and safety and dishing out damage via punishment or rush down when the time is right. Shield... Well, that's more of the safe art but it encourages defensive/turtling playstyle. Smash is very reliant on punishment and reads.
You have a lot to focus on when using Shulk because his arts drastically change his playstyle. One part of him becomes insanely good and the other becomes trash, unlike Ike who's much more consistent since he's always all about power and knockback so he's basically much more stable and more reliable. Shulk needs to keep switching it up every now and then which is why "situational" is the best way to describe his neutral game.
What makes Shulk good though is the insane profit he gets when he's at the advantage (Greater reward than Ike, I think). You either rack up insane amount of damage in a few seconds, KO the opponent at a low % from a hard read, or possibly gimp them off stage
tl;dr: You're playing 5 different characters. 6 if you include vanilla. Changing into an art has a huge effect on what your plan is (You can see it in the combo thread, the difference in percentage). Learn how it affects your game plan or you'll feel the inconsistency. Think about it that way
She doesn't have one, but as an 100% serious post, the closest you'll get is probably something like Imperial Capital Alcamoth (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCHp4jl_eQI, Day or Night) or Where the Ancestors Sleep (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKHfM4wqiDg, a bit of an atmospheric one.) She has no theme, but these are the tracks to two locations that are pretty significant for her and portray that kind of grand mysticism.
I skimmed some of the posts so may have misread, but if you want the actual order of the tracks (according to the JP CD) I can pass that on to you.
He was in debt because his children ate so much that he couldn't afford it.
-----------------
Last time I was on, I said I wasn't going to enter that 4v4 Smash tournament. Someone advertising a spare space didn't get back to me, so I was going to show up and just watch some of the matches; I had somewhere else to be later tonight and couldn't stick around for more than three hours. I got a message from someone this morning saying someone in their team bailed and they needed an extra person (or would be stuck with a Lv.9 CPU.) So I decided, "eh, may as well, even if I have to leave early. We'll probably be eliminated by that point anyway, haha." Best of three (best of five finals), double elimination, 15 teams of 3-4 each (3's had Lv.9 replacements).
I'll put this in spoilers just to shorten the post.
Character bans were in place. I can detail how this works if anyone asks, but essentially each team gets to lock out two characters each round. (Essentially there to stop strategies involving things like Oil Panic, PSI Magnet and Pocket if your team chooses.) As I sat down for the first match I swear I heard the words "that guy's the best Shulk player I've seen". Did wonders for my ego, though I knew he'd get banned pretty quick (he did, lol).
Each match after the first got to the 3rd in Best of 3, though we managed to push through to the Winner's Finals. This would've been the point I'd need to leave early to make it to my other event - just decided to turn up late. (These friends do take jabs at me for being such a gaming nerd, so they were not in the least surprised to learn I was late because I was playing Smash Bros.)
Following matches were recorded, I'll post videos here or in that Shulk Tournament Results thread whenever the vids go up: Winner's Final - Best of 5.
I'd not seen these guys really play and I knew one of the guys on the team. Didn't really know what to expect or if they were any good. They banned Mii Gunner first off (one of us mains them), one team member knew someone on the opposing team was a good Lucario player. We banned that and another, they banned something like G&W. Rock-paper-scissored for Green Team - (we won Green Team that way for the third time today!) First rounds went well enough, maybe two lives left.
Round 2, they won. I think they chose Temple and the "Cave of Life" became the "Cave of Death". Going there is a bad idea on low%s when there's at least 3 others there already.
Round 3 and 4, we won. At least one of those, they banned Shulk; I played Palutena and aside from my idiotic SD about 10 seconds in, I survived to the end (though possibly from Stock Sharing.)
Loser's Final - Best of 5.
I didn't watch this, but the guys we beat went up against a team I was dreading playing against. In it was the best Smash player I've ever fought (his Villager was unbelievably good), and another guy - both of these guys knocked me out of my first Smash tournament. If this match was won by the team we'd beaten in the previous round, we'd play them again... and at least we know we can beat them, right? It came down to the 4th or 5th match, on Sudden Death for at least one round (won by Kirby's short-hop Stone of all things), but the team we'd beaten was the victor! I'll fight Villager of my nightmares another day.
Finals - Multiple Best of 5s.
Because of Double Elimination, we had to win one BO5 and they had to win two BO5's. By this point we knew each other's tricks. They stood by banning Mii Gunner and Ness each round, we alternated between banning Lucario, Link and Kirby.
First BO5 - they get three consecutive wins. WHAT HAPPENED? We beat these guys! Have we suddenly lost our touch? Did they adapt to their opponents better than we have? Does being Green Team truly make you always win? Suddenly our safety net was gone. Time to bring the A-game.
I can't quite recall whether the following Best of 5 involved three or four matches total - but luckily we came through. One member on my team started calling out certain strategies often, and I think this was a gamechanger - for me, at least. This varied from things like "Dr. Mario's on high% but Mario's low, get Dr. Mario", to "Game and Watch has a full bucket!", to (on Temple) "Get out of that cave, they have two people left. Bring them to us, out the top. Timer's getting low, just try to keep the stock lead. Some of us just stay back or we'll keep hurting ourselves."
How about that? When I woke up, I wasn't going to enter the tournament, and by the end of the day we'd won it. Prize was a shirt, Yoshi keyring, and a trophy that'll be on its way.
Long story short, we actually won! Videos will go up of Loser's, Winner's and the Grand Finals eventually.
My team's constituents, roughly from most- to least-played. From memory...
Me: , , once, once.
*2*: , Spectator: "That Wii Fit Trainer, man... I'll be honest, I learned some **** today."
*3*: , , ,
*4*: ,
(Finals mostly ended up with ///.)
Often my teammates *2*, *3* and *4* sat in that order so they could coordinate pelting projectiles at *3* for scumbag strategies. I just did whatever I do.
Most frequent bans against us were Mii Gunner, Game & Watch, Ness, Shulk.
Highlights:
- Watching a match that came down to Mario vs. three others, all >70%. Mario goes for the grab and back-throw. The 'spinning animation' causes Mario to whack another opponent with the one he's holding, both get the red electric effect and one goes off. In the end, Mario wins.
- One of my teammates got so lost in the game that when it came to 2v1 our Samus went into some hard combo on our own Ness.
- Having a teammate using Stock Share to take a life off me when I'm at two-stock, 190%.
- Constantly eating my teammate's Sun Salutations.
- Photo taken in front of a victory screen of our characters, imitating the funny poses.
Some comments on the 4v4 format, at least for this event's setup.
- This is a surprisingly fun format. We've all tried 8-Player Smash and 'chaotic' doesn't even begin to describe it. However this wasn't quite as crazy as it usually is; people act more reserved when there's a risk of hitting teammates, and they're much more reserved than Lv.9 CPUs.
- Larger stages are much better. They keep things frantic whilst also giving both teams enough space to put their strategies into play. Other stages, like Battlefield and Omega stages, were quite cramped and there's no room to breathe.
Also on a serious note I feel we should probably explain the obscure choice of character banning.
Certain combinations in the game can lead to very powerful results, as I'm sure some of you came across a Samus + Ness healing, or a Samus + Game and Watch instant kills, or Samus + Villager pocket kills. These were also possible with Lucario, Mii Gunner, Wii Fit Trainer, etc.
Due to this there were questions of how to run this event without it turning into a boring insta-kill fest.
There were discussions of flat out banning characters or combinations of characters, however we deemed this unfair as permanently banning characters is unfair on players, and banning combinations can be rather confusing explaining to players why certain characters aren't allowed.
Hence why we chose to gave each team 2 bans, that way if there was a combination which was too strong, they had the option to eliminate it, while still leaving other options open.
It made people experiment more with character choice rather than sticking to their best or choosing strong combos.
Either way, that's my 2c to everyone wondering why it's there.
- Seems valid in my opinion. If there's a character or strategy you're living in fear of, you can stop it. It also forces both teams to switch up their strategies often (at least, until you get into BO5's and similar things get banned consistently.) At first glance I actually hated the idea of being forced out of your mains, but in the end I think I liked the idea because of the strategy-changing.
- Before I attended this event, I was dreading that this would be an Oil Panic-fest. Fortunately between character banning and simply verbally comminucating with your teammates, most things could be worked around.
Comments on how I felt Shulk went in 4v4:
I was worried that wildly flailing aerials like I normally do would mean I'd keep hitting teammates. I think you just have to be wary of your surroundings. I found the most use out of fair (always good), nair (fantastic range means you can hit a lot of enemies in one go if used at the right times), bair (I felt this was really safe a lot of the time; I think most people are focused on their general surroundings but not you in particular, so you can catch people off-guard with a long-range Monado Poke), and dsmash (used wisely when surrounded.)
I'm by no means an expert but this is what I found; I rarely used Jump. I found Speed to be kind of useless in a big fray but great if you're off to the side with one or two enemies and won't be caught by the chaos. Buster felt somewhat opposite - you can swing Buster aerials around and catch so many people and feel terrible when you hit a teammate. Shield is great for tanking and playing a bit of a distraction, keeping your foes attention while someone else comes up and smashes them in the face. Smash is used in the same situations, but I found it harder to make use of because you need to spend time searching the eight HP%s at the bottom of the screen to see who's high - a somewhat dangerous amount of time in 8-Player Smash.
If anyone has questions, I'll be happy to answer them... next time I'm online
Edit: Please forgive the plentiful typos. Think I fixed all the ones I found. I wrote this at 1AM.
Yesterday I broke a shield with two lightning kicks and they fell off the ledge, and in another match using Rosaluma's jab and then using the Luma recall to push them off the edge with the windbox
TFW STYLIN'
I was suppose to make a thread dedicated to Monado shield but I lack the resources (another 3DS or a Wii U) to test this
Then agaaaain, you guys are cool and all. Masonomace has checked on Bowser's f-smash so far and said that it's unsafe on hit against shield art. I'd probably try doing this character by character. Shield vs X's move or something like that
Yeah I could definitely help you with this if you ever want to make it (though I don't have a capture card to make gifs of shield pushback so I'd have to take screenshots)
Are you talking about Red/Blue Costume Shulk? Or Speed Monado Shulk?
...Or Blue Underwear Shulk?
If you didn't know, Shulk's alternate costumes are representing the clothing that his party members wear. The default is his normal outfit (obviously), White = Fiora, Black/Red = Dunban, Black/Orange = Reyn, Red/Blue = Sharla, Pink = Meliai, Orange/Purple = Riki. And Speedo Shulk is a reference to how in his game, if you take off all of his equipment, that's all he'll be wearing. You can go through the whole game doing that with most of the characters i think, lol.
I personally prefer White and Black/Red Shulk, especially White. Although, i use Orange at times to represent my support of Reyn Time as the original Meme, and Red/Blue because i like those colors (spiderman fan, : P). And then sometimes Speedo Shulk just for lulz.
The only alts I have up are Orange Luigi, Fierce Deity Link, NES Toon Link, Dark Samus, Shadow Kirby, Game Boy Dedede, Wireframe Sweatshirt Mac, Sleeping Cap Jigglypuff, Dark Falco, Saturn Ness and Valentine's Day Falcon.
I played a bit of Riki Shulk because Heropon, but that color scheme is the worst imo so I stopped doing that and went back to default.
Lmfao just spiked a good Robin player VERY low offstage, we both had 1 stock and I used Shulk's dair, man I never realized how satisfying that is, not to mention that was my first ever Shulk spike.
The only alts I use are Fierce Deity Link, Sharla Shulk, Silver Sonic, nothing really to get over about for me.
With pitch changed or not? Assuming with pitch changed (more common), ×1.25 sounds a little too unnaturally high for some of the instruments. I'm more of a fan of ×1.122 because it doesn't sound so unnatural (it's also in tune, 2 half steps up ). On this topic though, I have been experimenting around with changing the speeds of Xenoblade songs.
Gaur Plains actually sounds neat slowed down. At ×0.793 it's 4 half steps down and sounds pretty grand imo. Memories sounds fantastically beautiful at that same speed. Reminiscence isn't bad like that either, but something more useful with that song is playing it +2 half steps (×1.122) puts it in the same key as Memories. This is something useful to know because then you can then play along to it on the piano if you know Memories (which I do!).
Is that inescapable once you manage to land the Nair? From what it seems like, there is enough hit stun to prevent it from being countered. The only characters I don't see this working on are Pit/too, Villager, and other characters with amazing recovery, as you can see the Marth jumping at the end of the GIF, making it not a guaranteed stock but really close if your opponent doesn't have fast reflexes.
Is that inescapable once you manage to land the Nair? From what it seems like, there is enough hit stun to prevent it from being countered. The only characters I don't see this working on are Pit/too, Villager, and other characters with amazing recovery, as you can see the Marth jumping at the end of the GIF, making it not a guaranteed stock but really close if your opponent doesn't have fast reflexes.
In the boxes on the right, the combo count goes to 2, so inescapable. Though he didn't go through the blast line, I don't think Marth could've made that back. Seems very specific on the opponent and their percentage though.
Is that inescapable once you manage to land the Nair? From what it seems like, there is enough hit stun to prevent it from being countered. The only characters I don't see this working on are Pit/too, Villager, and other characters with amazing recovery, as you can see the Marth jumping at the end of the GIF, making it not a guaranteed stock but really close if your opponent doesn't have fast reflexes.
I don't always use the Melia colours, but when I do, I lose. (I find that horribly appropriate.)
In the boxes on the right, the combo count goes to 2, so inescapable. Though he didn't go through the blast line, I don't think Marth could've made that back. Seems very specific on the opponent and their percentage though.
Yeah, this is a really cool technique since it will take a stock off of anyone with average recovery. I was talking about characters that have insane recoveries like Villager and Pit/too. Nice to see it's inescapable too.
Oh nice a Shulk psuedo Ken Combo that'd be sweet to pull off!
Speaking of character custom colors I actually do have a custom color for every character in the roster except for Mario and Sonic. Shulk in particular is the only one who I keep swapping colors to play (I mainly use Melia but I also like Fiora/Dunban/Sharla as well).
Ah, the memories of the old Shulk thread. Back when @SkittleE and @TitanTeaTime were a big part of the thread, and, man, I was liking all the posts even back then.
I use the default costume for every character with 2 exceptions. I use the overall outfit for Wario since I prefer that over his WarioWare look, but even that is default. The second is using Lucina's Tharja palette because I admittedly like the character in Awakening and the alt looks freaking awesome.
I did once fight with Reyn Shulk because I fought a person in For Glory named "Joker" and I thought, "Man, I'm gonna make him look like a bunch of jokers!" ...And then I sadly lost... and then I beat him with Luigi. But I am still salty because my joke died from my loss.
Berserker. - I'm literally a scientist. That is literally my job. So, as far as I'm concerned, you won that tournament. Because science.
. Such a waste of time for the game to crash so close to what I think is the end~
