Social Shulk Social : Starting to feel it!

[Deleted member]

I'm so conflicted with Shulk these days. Sometimes I'm (pardon my meme usage) really feeling it and he's such a blast to play. Other times some MUs drive me nuts because of how bad his frame data really is (fastest aerial is 13f; really Sakurai?) and just so weird, janky and inconsistent his moveset is sometimes. It's really tiring to lose matches because his moveset refuses to even work properly (2nd hit of AirSlash/FSmash sometimes whiffing, how weird air vision is, jab combo being really inconsistent on floaties, etc.)

It's probably why I'm using Cloud a lot more these days (he's super fun to me of course) and why I'm really looking forward to trying out Corrin/Bayonetta. I'll still pull out Shulk for some fights because I love playing him despite his problems and hopefully in the next patch, Shulk gets...something, but...ugh, sometimes I really feel like Shulk's holding me back. >:

 

[Fandangox]

I am still going to play Shulk because I play fighing game characters for both liking their playstyle and liking the characters themselves, but Shulk really needs some help with Frame data. Is a frustratingly often scenario where you hit an enemy and, unless you are in speed, they will be able to get out of hitstun and attack you back before your fair is even through half of its animation frames.

Vision still the GOAT tho

 

[mario123007]

Found a gif that's really funny and cool.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Cloud's release makes playing Shulk discouraging. Ever since the game came out I've always said "Oh I see Shulk can't really have good frame data because with his range and buster's shieldstun it'd be dumb" and "Oh I guess they figured having Shulk's Uair and Dair linger would be really strong because the Monado's laser is so long."

Then Cloud comes along with an auto-canceling frame 5 nair with comparable range to Shulk's (though I admit I prefer Shulk's because it lingers more) and the MEATIEST Uair and Dair. And we can't even really say we have the Monado over him to an extent because fully-charged limit boosts his mobility stats (WITHOUT drawbacks I might add) and gives his specials Smash Art-level kill power.

I don't doubt that Shulk will grab another buff or two before patching's done but I'm more expecting to see Cloud get nerfed. Not because I think he's super over-powered, but because he's a direct upgrade over a lot of other traditional swordsmen in this game. His recovery isn't even that much worse than a lot of them: I'd argue Shulk's and Roy's are only marginally better and even then if the Cloud knows what he's doing he'll have limit which IS better than those two's.

I still like Shulk better but Cloud is the competitive swordsman to beat right next to if not above Ike and a bit below Meta Knight.

 

[AlvisCPU]

Yeah, I really like Shulk. Even if you can't dual main well with him, I can kinda do it where I live, since the pressure to absolute mastery isn't so high. Heck, Robin is pretty hard too, so I guess I'm coping well. Corrin definitely intrigues me, and I certainly with at least secondary her. That attack fluidity is sooooooo smoooooooth. I think the arts will still keep Shulk interest alive, because that still gives him something no one else has.

Also, Xenoblade spoilers (unrelated to above):

Spoiler

I WAS RIGHT ABOUT METAL FACE! I said in the Discord chat that I thought he had some relation to Mumkhar, way back when I fought Xord, but people said no. Well, seems like I guessed right.

Spoiler

People would have said no to save you from spoilers.

Also, playing Smash before Xenoblade might do that to you. I know a few people have gone through that which really sucks (it kills the plot twist a bit). I'm adamant that Metal Face doesn't speak in the first encounter to give the player time to forget about Mumkhar's existence, and moreso the sound of his voice.

 

[LordTakeo]

Spoiler

People would have said no to save you from spoilers.

Also, playing Smash before Xenoblade might do that to you. I know a few people have gone through that which really sucks (it kills the plot twist a bit). I'm adamant that Metal Face doesn't speak in the first encounter to give the player time to forget about Mumkhar's existence, and moreso the sound of his voice.

Spoiler

I know exactly what you mean. It simply was completely overwhelming as I made the connection finally. It was mindblowing the first time.

 

[Monado Master]

I know this is going to be the unpopular choice here and its probably going to be wrong, but I don't see Cloud being top tier. He's mid at best. Probably under Shulk on the tier list.
Yea he has his limit break buffs, but I don't even notice them. He has his very early killing finishing touch, but to my knowledge there's no true combo into it that kills, its frame data is worst then Lucarios smash attacks, and honestly how often do you hit with it, or even use it. His recovery is a complete downgrade from Air Slash having less range, power, and actual recovery distance unless you use its limit break version which only really buffs recovery, because it doesn't kill early at all. Not to mention if you mistakenly hit b again when trying to recover which feels worst then getting spiked. His F-Smash also has a long start up and "eh" range. His Nair wishes it could be Shulk's. His Fair ALSO has trash start up, and its barely spikes.
I'm kinda tempted to post a Shulk vs Cloud comparison page as its own page. Probably not going to though.

 

[meleebrawler]

Speaking of Cloud, people seem to think Shulk goes even with him, or possibly even has an advantage. Turns out Shulk can really exploit his recovery with fsmash, and arts (particularly Shield) screw with limit.

 

[LordTakeo]

I know this is going to be the unpopular choice here and its probably going to be wrong, but I don't see Cloud being top tier. He's mid at best. Probably under Shulk on the tier list.
Yea he has his limit break buffs, but I don't even notice them. He has his very early killing finishing touch, but to my knowledge there's no true combo into it that kills, its frame data is worst then Lucarios smash attacks, and honestly how often do you hit with it, or even use it. His recovery is a complete downgrade from Air Slash having less range, power, and actual recovery distance unless you use its limit break version which only really buffs recovery, because it doesn't kill early at all. Not to mention if you mistakenly hit b again when trying to recover which feels worst then getting spiked. His F-Smash also has a long start up and "eh" range. His Nair wishes it could be Shulk's. His Fair ALSO has trash start up, and its barely spikes.
I'm kinda tempted to post a Shulk vs Cloud comparison page as its own page. Probably not going to though.

You are right with all of those points, but look at it rather like Captn. Falcon. His recovery is trashy aswell.

Ah, getting sidetracked from my overall thing... I'd say he's hightier. Tho, he has something shulk doesn't have. Framedata WITH range.
His u-air is good enough, his nair is fast enough, why bothering with fair when you got such alternatives? Even Side-b or neutral b in the air could be used instead of a f-air, depending on the enemy reaction.

Because of the faults you mentioned, he prolly never will be top tier, but because of his other options, he is still far from bad.
We on the other hand just really need better frames... give every air-move of us 3-4 frames earlier start-up and I'd be pleased considerably.

 

[AlvisCPU]

I know this is going to be the unpopular choice here and its probably going to be wrong, but I don't see Cloud being top tier. He's mid at best. Probably under Shulk on the tier list.
Yea he has his limit break buffs, but I don't even notice them. He has his very early killing finishing touch, but to my knowledge there's no true combo into it that kills, its frame data is worst then Lucarios smash attacks, and honestly how often do you hit with it, or even use it. His recovery is a complete downgrade from Air Slash having less range, power, and actual recovery distance unless you use its limit break version which only really buffs recovery, because it doesn't kill early at all. Not to mention if you mistakenly hit b again when trying to recover which feels worst then getting spiked. His F-Smash also has a long start up and "eh" range. His Nair wishes it could be Shulk's. His Fair ALSO has trash start up, and its barely spikes.
I'm kinda tempted to post a Shulk vs Cloud comparison page as its own page. Probably not going to though.

Pretty sure that sourspot of dair combos into Finishing Touch at certain percents. I think there's a couple of other attacks that'll do it, but not many.

As for his nair, I think it's a little better than Shulk's but I think it's kind of subjective on whether you want it to linger or not. His Fsmash is pretty good imo (you can't be reckless, hitting with it pays off), and his fair's sweetspot it kind of tough but the attack itself is fast enough for its range.

I don't think he'll be as top-tier as people seem to think. That said, credit where credit is due. Just thought I'd give my two cents

 

[Solfiner]

Time to debunk all the "Cloud is a better Shulk" posts.

Spoiler: Wall of text.

First, time for some objective stuff.

The only similar attacks they have are Nair, Dair and Ftilt.


Nair comes out at a completely different angle and lingers less.

Dair is more similar to Shulk's, but it lingers more. So what? Link's Dair is the same essentially, except he can't auto cancel it.

Cloud's Ftilt is faster, but Shulk's is a lot stronger. You'll only see Cloud's Ftilt kill at really high percentages.


Okay, with the similar attacks out of the way, time for some range talk.

Cloud's fair has pretty much the same range as Shulk's, but it's frame 18 as opposed to Shulk's frame 14. It also lingers a lot less than Shulk's. These two factors makes it a lot worse of a spacing tool.

Nair has about the same range, but the angles are completely different. This means that both Nairs will hit at around the same time, but Shulk's is a lot easier to use as a wall.

Cloud's Fsmash has about the same range as Shulk's, BUT it's frame 19. Shulk's is frame 14.

Cloud's Usmash is a lot different than Shulk's but I'll compare them because why not. Shulk's kills better and lingers a looooooooot more.


All of the above doesn't even factor in that a Shulk with MALLC can just negate landing lag AND get invincibility. You literally can't play Cloud like you're supposed to play Shulk.


Oh and blade beam is overrated, it's really easily punished.

/End rant

 

[ZXMechonHunter]

Time to debunk all the "Cloud is a better Shulk" posts.

Spoiler: Wall of text.

First, time for some objective stuff.

The only similar attacks they have are Nair, Dair and Ftilt.


Nair comes out at a completely different angle and lingers less.

Dair is more similar to Shulk's, but it lingers more. So what? Link's Dair is the same essentially, except he can't auto cancel it.

Cloud's Ftilt is faster, but Shulk's is a lot stronger. You'll only see Cloud's Ftilt kill at really high percentages.


Okay, with the similar attacks out of the way, time for some range talk.

Cloud's fair has pretty much the same range as Shulk's, but it's frame 18 as opposed to Shulk's frame 14. It also lingers a lot less than Shulk's. These two factors makes it a lot worse of a spacing tool.

Nair has about the same range, but the angles are completely different. This means that both Nairs will hit at around the same time, but Shulk's is a lot easier to use as a wall.

Cloud's Fsmash has about the same range as Shulk's, BUT it's frame 19. Shulk's is frame 14.

Cloud's Usmash is a lot different than Shulk's but I'll compare them because why not. Shulk's kills better and lingers a looooooooot more.


All of the above doesn't even factor in that a Shulk with MALLC can just negate landing lag AND get invincibility. You literally can't play Cloud like you're supposed to play Shulk.


Oh and blade beam is overrated, it's really easily punished.

/End rant

This was like super early Shulk support days, but remember when I said even if Shulk got in people would arbitrarily compare him to Cloud? I am the prophet.
But yeah, they might have some small similarities, but they really aren't that alike. Cloud's not a "better Shulk".

 

[DuwangAnon]

You know, it's a real crime and a shame that Isaac wasn't included in Sm4sh. Now we can't complete the Blondimu Evolutionary Line: Lucas evolves into Isaac who then in turn has a split evolution into either Shulk or Cloud.
Also, hi guys, haven't been here in a while.

 

[Monado Master]

Pretty sure that sourspot of dair combos into Finishing Touch at certain percents. I think there's a couple of other attacks that'll do it, but not many.

As for his nair, I think it's a little better than Shulk's but I think it's kind of subjective on whether you want it to linger or not. His Fsmash is pretty good imo (you can't be reckless, hitting with it pays off), and his fair's sweetspot it kind of tough but the attack itself is fast enough for its range.

I don't think he'll be as top-tier as people seem to think. That said, credit where credit is due. Just thought I'd give my two cents

Yea. I knew the Shulk vs Cloud thread I wanted to make wasn't goin happen. Oh well, you can't win 'em all.

Anyway. I also believe that Cloud is overrated. Both as a smash fighter and as a character himself (I do think he's really cool though). I'm not saying he's a bad smasher or anything like that. He's a good character. His Dtilt, Fsmash, Nair, and Uair are his best moves. I personally like Shulk's Nair more from that amazing linger, range, and combo-ability (Which is even better with Jump, Speed, or Buster. And with Smash it can kill at a alright percent. And with Shield on, it can be a stalling tool of sorts). Anyway, I just personally think that Shulk is better for me then Cloud. People have opinions and I'm fine with that.

And sorry if I came off as a bit "salty" with my last post. I wasn't trying to be salty or anything. I get into a lot of detail with things like this.

 

[Deleted member]

I beat Chapter 10 in XCX.
I'm almost done with the main quest, but I still have a lot of sidequests to do. I'll focus on those and then do Chapter 11... I dunno what to expect on how powerful the next few bosses will be.

As for Cloud... Shulk and Cloud aren't comparable, so I find it wrong to call Cloud a "better Shulk." Even then, I think Cloud loses the matchup.
That doesn't mean that Cloud is terrible. He is completely viable and he's a pretty damn good character. I wouldn't doubt on Cloud's abilities.

 

[ExcaliburGuy]

I think what's making a lot of people think that Cloud is "the better Shulk" is the fact Cloud has a trait that used to almost be exclusively Shulk's: ridiculous range. And unfortunately for Shulk mains, Cloud has the frame data to back up his range. A frame 5 nair (correct me if I'm wrong) is simply ludicrous for an attack with that range. Not to mention it autocancels from a short hop. All of his other aerials autocancel from at most a full hop. Shulk has one aerial that autocancels from a full hop, and that's his fair. In Jump mode. It is true that Shulk and Cloud's nairs function differently. Shulk's is better as a wall and combo starter, while Cloud's is better as a get-off-me option and combo link. Cloud and Shulk's fairs may look similar, but they function very differently as well. I really don't see how they can be compared, as Cloud's functions as a hefty punish while Shulk's functions as a wall and combo link.
While their moves side by side are not comparable, however, their concepts as characters are indeed similar. And unfortunately, Cloud's far superior frame data makes it hard for Shulk to compete. That's without going into all the neat gimmicks Cloud has. His initial dash animation, for example, is without a doubt the best in the game. If you didn't know, Cloud can dash dance. Like legit. He can also use his down B to cancel his run animation and use any move he wants immediately from the run animation.
That's not to say that Shulk is a bad character by any means. I still think is is at least mid tier. However, it will be hard to convince people to play Shulk, who is easily one of the hardest characters in the game to play effectively, over Cloud, who already has widespread tournament support.

 

[LasermasterA]

Totally off topic, but did you guys know you can reverse your skell (vehicle mode) in XCX with ZL?

Yea that's my last XCX post probably. Going through Xenoblade withdrawal ugh...

You know, it's a real crime and a shame that Isaac wasn't included in Sm4sh. Now we can't complete the Blondimu Evolutionary Line: Lucas evolves into Isaac who then in turn has a split evolution into either Shulk or Cloud.
Also, hi guys, haven't been here in a while.

I now totally have another reason for wanting Isaac in the next Smash. I need that evolutionary line! xD

 

[Nammy12]

Wow, you guys weren't kidding. The g-buster is really strong.
Get a couple cooldown resets with cockpit mode and the boss' health goes down so quickly lol.

 

[LordTakeo]

Wow, you guys weren't kidding. The g-buster is really strong.
Get a couple cooldown resets with cockpit mode and the boss' health goes down so quickly lol.

Oh, just wait until you get the phoenix, with a 50 skell. That damage is insane.

 

[LasermasterA]

I never used the Phoenix to be honest. I personally preferred my G2 Buster.

And with super skells and super weapons, my Antimatter Cannon for crowd killing.

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler: I need help... please!

I am doing a sidequest at level 48 called Definian Downfall and this boss is just difficult...
I can barely do a scratch on it. How do I defeat it?

 

[LasermasterA]

Spoiler: I need help... please!

I am doing a sidequest at level 48 called Definian Downfall and this boss is just difficult...
I can barely do a scratch on it. How do I defeat it?

Oh...!!

Spoiler: Hopefully Helpful tips

The Rexoskell huh? That one is a tough one, especially if you are underleveled. You have to fight it two times during the quest I believe. One time you have to beat it with ground gear which is the tough part you are having a problem with.

Like all bosses, you gotta beat it down quick before it gets enraged and wrecks your party. You could avoid targeting appendages to prevent that for longer. Plus the rexoskell has a really potent decoy move (like Ghostwalker but for the enemy) so you gotta kill it before it uses that. The damage it deals is beam, so you could go for beam resistant armour. I am not sure about this (don't have access to my game atm) but I believe it is weak to gravity weapons.

You could also use mechanoid damage augment/skill to boost your damage. And maybe bring Elma in your team for Ghost Factory (decoy dodging). You should also try start the battle with Overdrive (and have an extend overdrive augment) so that you deal more damage and take less.

Which weapons are you using anyway?

Also just a heads up, but after you finish that quest, a quest will unlock in that region if you have 65% survey rate in Cauldros.

Hope that helps out. I was pretty much overpowered at that point so I didn't have much of a problem during the quest but I know that boss is tough since it has beaten me multiple times in Time Attack mode.

 

[Skyfox2000]

When I first started playing Smash 4 which was around the first month it was released. I picked up I really did like the character however I dropped him. I now picked up I just wanted to post something in the Shulk community because I'm going to pick him back up.

Who wins the MU between vs I would say probably Cloud because Shulk has alot of ending lag. I think our Monado Boy can give him some trouble though.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh...!!

Spoiler: Hopefully Helpful tips

The Rexoskell huh? That one is a tough one, especially if you are underleveled. You have to fight it two times during the quest I believe. One time you have to beat it with ground gear which is the tough part you are having a problem with.

Like all bosses, you gotta beat it down quick before it gets enraged and wrecks your party. You could avoid targeting appendages to prevent that for longer. Plus the rexoskell has a really potent decoy move (like Ghostwalker but for the enemy) so you gotta kill it before it uses that. The damage it deals is beam, so you could go for beam resistant armour. I am not sure about this (don't have access to my game atm) but I believe it is weak to gravity weapons.

You could also use mechanoid damage augment/skill to boost your damage. And maybe bring Elma in your team for Ghost Factory (decoy dodging). You should also try start the battle with Overdrive (and have an extend overdrive augment) so that you deal more damage and take less.

Which weapons are you using anyway?

Also just a heads up, but after you finish that quest, a quest will unlock in that region if you have 65% survey rate in Cauldros.

Hope that helps out. I was pretty much overpowered at that point so I didn't have much of a problem during the quest but I know that boss is tough since it has beaten me multiple times in Time Attack mode.

Spoiler

I fought him more... I still can't beat it even when I'm close.
I get it to the quarter of its HP and then I get owned... I just focus on the whole body instead of the appendages.

I have my character, Elma, and Lin and they all have gear that reduces beam damage and have gravity weapons. I also have Nagi, who has a beam resistance outfit and a sword that doesn't do gravity damage.

I'm just super depressed right now... this boss is hard.

 

[AlvisCPU]

When I first started playing Smash 4 which was around the first month it was released. I picked up I really did like the character however I dropped him. I now picked up I just wanted to post something in the Shulk community because I'm going to pick him back up.

Who wins the MU between vs I would say probably Cloud because Shulk has alot of ending lag. I think our Monado Boy can give him some trouble though.

Generally speaking Shulk doesn't have a lot of ending lag, it's more the startup that's the killer. And if we're speaking start-up lag, if I'm correct, they're actually pretty close. In terms of a comparison, I'll point you to the post earlier on the page:

Time to debunk all the "Cloud is a better Shulk" posts.

Spoiler: Wall of text.

First, time for some objective stuff.

The only similar attacks they have are Nair, Dair and Ftilt.


Nair comes out at a completely different angle and lingers less.

Dair is more similar to Shulk's, but it lingers more. So what? Link's Dair is the same essentially, except he can't auto cancel it.

Cloud's Ftilt is faster, but Shulk's is a lot stronger. You'll only see Cloud's Ftilt kill at really high percentages.


Okay, with the similar attacks out of the way, time for some range talk.

Cloud's fair has pretty much the same range as Shulk's, but it's frame 18 as opposed to Shulk's frame 14. It also lingers a lot less than Shulk's. These two factors makes it a lot worse of a spacing tool.

Nair has about the same range, but the angles are completely different. This means that both Nairs will hit at around the same time, but Shulk's is a lot easier to use as a wall.

Cloud's Fsmash has about the same range as Shulk's, BUT it's frame 19. Shulk's is frame 14.

Cloud's Usmash is a lot different than Shulk's but I'll compare them because why not. Shulk's kills better and lingers a looooooooot more.


All of the above doesn't even factor in that a Shulk with MALLC can just negate landing lag AND get invincibility. You literally can't play Cloud like you're supposed to play Shulk.


Oh and blade beam is overrated, it's really easily punished.

/End rant

In my unprofessional opinion...
What Shulk has over Cloud:

• Range
• Monado Arts
• Longer active hitboxes
• Throws
• Recovery

What Cloud has over Shulk:

• Generally quicker startup on attacks
• Agility
• Limit Breaks for KO power
  
• Spikes
• Has an easier time comboing at high%s

I think the matchup is pretty even, honestly. Both sides have to play carefully around each other.

 

[LasermasterA]

Spoiler

I fought him more... I still can't beat it even when I'm close.
I get it to the quarter of its HP and then I get owned... I just focus on the whole body instead of the appendages.

I have my character, Elma, and Lin and they all have gear that reduces beam damage and have gravity weapons. I also have Nagi, who has a beam resistance outfit and a sword that doesn't do gravity damage.

I'm just super depressed right now... this boss is hard.

You could try a longsword build... They do have tons of damage especially if you have unlocked the strongest move of them all.

Spoiler

Blossom dance!

Alternately you could just level up a bit and come back. That boss is considered one of the strongest bosses in the game before post game. Maybe with better skills and arts as well (if already not maxed em).

You can also try Core Crusher (Psychocorruptor skill) with an Ether weapon, that is very powerful and anyway appendage damage will then become zero.

Since you need to kill it fast, some other nice skills which could help you are Fortified Flesh (Duelist), Yamato Spirit for TP (Samurai Gunner) and maybe some other nice attack boosting move. Background Noise from the Full Metal Jaguar series also boosts damage by 125% from behind! This does depend on which classes you have mastered so far though.

Some people focus on the appendages instead since it has tons and use boost appendage damage skills on weapons (or character).

The fight's tough so yea you have to figure out the best strategy suited to you.

Did you try Overdrive? Farm for TP on some low level thugs and come back to kill this thug. Infinite Overdrive is possible (you mainly need TP improving moves/skills and an Extend Overdrive XX augment) at the point in the game where you are and is VERY powerful.

Or just arm tons of Mechanoid Slayer skill weapons (you should have collected a few by now) to boost your damage. I don't remember which class unlocks the skill for the character though.

I hope that helps. There is so much customization possible with the avatar, that it becomes possible to solo almost all bosses on ground once you reach post game and get decent gear. With overdrive obviously.

Go beat that skell up!

 

[Deleted member]

You could try a longsword build... They do have tons of damage especially if you have unlocked the strongest move of them all.

Spoiler

Blossom dance!

Alternately you could just level up a bit and come back. That boss is considered one of the strongest bosses in the game before post game. Maybe with better skills and arts as well (if already not maxed em).

You can also try Core Crusher (Psychocorruptor skill) with an Ether weapon, that is very powerful and anyway appendage damage will then become zero.

Since you need to kill it fast, some other nice skills which could help you are Fortified Flesh (Duelist), Yamato Spirit for TP (Samurai Gunner) and maybe some other nice attack boosting move. Background Noise from the Full Metal Jaguar series also boosts damage by 125% from behind! This does depend on which classes you have mastered so far though.

Some people focus on the appendages instead since it has tons and use boost appendage damage skills on weapons (or character).

The fight's tough so yea you have to figure out the best strategy suited to you.

Did you try Overdrive? Farm for TP on some low level thugs and come back to kill this thug. Infinite Overdrive is possible (you mainly need TP improving moves/skills and an Extend Overdrive XX augment) at the point in the game where you are and is VERY powerful.

Or just arm tons of Mechanoid Slayer skill weapons (you should have collected a few by now) to boost your damage. I don't remember which class unlocks the skill for the character though.

I hope that helps. There is so much customization possible with the avatar, that it becomes possible to solo almost all bosses on ground once you reach post game and get decent gear. With overdrive obviously.

Go beat that skell up!

Spoiler

I am in the Duelist class and my Arts are Tornado Blade, True Stream Edge, Assault Hammer, Rising Blade, Offensive Stance, Defensive Stance, Furious Blast, and Power Dive.
I really played around with my Arts and Soul Voice just to take down this boss and... ugh.

I have been using Overdrive and it makes the fight easier, but I easily feel gimped when I'm not in Overdrive. I'll need to get that Augment, though.

 

[LasermasterA]

Spoiler

I am in the Duelist class and my Arts are Tornado Blade, True Stream Edge, Assault Hammer, Rising Blade, Offensive Stance, Defensive Stance, Furious Blast, and Power Dive.
I really played around with my Arts and Soul Voice just to take down this boss and... ugh.

I have been using Overdrive and it makes the fight easier, but I easily feel gimped when I'm not in Overdrive. I'll need to get that Augment, though.

Spoiler

Well actually you should technically keep only one aura to max damage (and finish the fight quick) and in this case Offensive Stance (also the most damage dealing Aura with a longsword build).

You could get a debuff move as debuff moves boost your TP when using overdrive. When I had a Raygun/Longsword build, Subterfuge gave me upto +1000 TP per hit, for 3 hits at MAX Overdrive.

Is Furious blast that move which boosts TP? I don't remember the name, but there is an Assault Rifle move which boosts +50 TP per hit (15 hits) at Tertiary cooldown. After extending the overdrive once, maintaining it becomes a lot easier, even without the best Extend Overdrive augment.

So did you beat it?

 

[Deleted member]

Spoiler

Well actually you should technically keep only one aura to max damage (and finish the fight quick) and in this case Offensive Stance (also the most damage dealing Aura with a longsword build).

You could get a debuff move as debuff moves boost your TP when using overdrive. When I had a Raygun/Longsword build, Subterfuge gave me upto +1000 TP per hit, for 3 hits at MAX Overdrive.

Is Furious blast that move which boosts TP? I don't remember the name, but there is an Assault Rifle move which boosts +50 TP per hit (15 hits) at Tertiary cooldown. After extending the overdrive once, maintaining it becomes a lot easier, even without the best Extend Overdrive augment.

So did you beat it?

Yes I did, with the help of recruiting a level 60 BLADE... I have no shame in doing that.
I am embarrassed to admit that, about 85 hours in the game, I just realized that if you master a class, you can use the weapons from that class in any class. The BLADE I recruited had both a longsword and dual guns...

Spoiler

It was a very good set up with Offensive Stance, Ghostwalker, Zero Zero, Primer, Rising Blade, Tornado Blade, True Stream Edge, and Blossom Dance. So, the character would quickly gain TP with True Stream Edge, dish out damage with the offensive arts and more so with Offensive Stance and gain more TP with Tornado Blade, and cancel out the weaknesses of Offensive Stance with Primer and Ghostwalker.
They also had the Skills Core Crusher, Fast Forward, and Supreme Sword.

I'm stealing this set.
I have to say, they should have told you that you can use other weapons in other classes way before. Like, "Nice job mastering a class! Go into other classes and you can use those weapons!"
Had I known that, I would have gone into other classes. I didn't because I was afraid of starting at square one with weapons I'm not used to.

 

[Skyfox2000]

I really do hate it when people say Cloud is a better Shulk. I really like Cloud and all he's one of my new mains but I still don't think Cloud's like some big replacement for our Monado Boy.

I really wish people used Shulk more in Tournaments. How has he done in Genesis 3? Everytime I watch it I never see Shulk being played.

 

[LasermasterA]

Yes I did, with the help of recruiting a level 60 BLADE... I have no shame in doing that.
I am embarrassed to admit that, about 85 hours in the game, I just realized that if you master a class, you can use the weapons from that class in any class. The BLADE I recruited had both a longsword and dual guns...

Spoiler

It was a very good set up with Offensive Stance, Ghostwalker, Zero Zero, Primer, Rising Blade, Tornado Blade, True Stream Edge, and Blossom Dance. So, the character would quickly gain TP with True Stream Edge, dish out damage with the offensive arts and more so with Offensive Stance and gain more TP with Tornado Blade, and cancel out the weaknesses of Offensive Stance with Primer and Ghostwalker.
They also had the Skills Core Crusher, Fast Forward, and Supreme Sword.

I'm stealing this set.
I have to say, they should have told you that you can use other weapons in other classes way before. Like, "Nice job mastering a class! Go into other classes and you can use those weapons!"
Had I known that, I would have gone into other classes. I didn't because I was afraid of starting at square one with weapons I'm not used to.

Don't worry, everyone has stolen that set

Longsword is pretty popular mainly because of its sheer damage dealing moves and the Dual Guns for Decoy.

And late discoveries often happen in games like Xenoblade. I didn't know about reversing a skell till the 120th hour -_-

Here's what I use:

Spoiler: My personal LS/DG set

My skills are Fast Forward, Trigger Happy, Gravity Boost, Night Vision (I just start all battles at Night ) and Red Zone. Will replace Gravity Boost with Core Crusher when I get decent Ether Dual Guns (already have an amazing Ether LS). This will be net 250% overall damage boost during night and 40% increased chance of criticals during overdrive. Nice heh? I also have a couple of Critical Up XX augments....

Arts are Offensive Stance, Tornado Blade, True Stream Edge, Blossom Dance, Ghost Factory, Sky High, Zero Zero and Executioner. Might put in Rising Blade instead of Sky High. I don't have Primer to boost evasion since my set is slightly more offensive and relies on Ghost Factory alone which is the super version of Walker.

I also happen to have an Arts Gain TP: XX and Extend Overdrive XX combo so yea, I never run out of TP or overdrive.

The main two OP tyrant killing sets (as far as I remember) either use Dual Guns/Longsword or Knife/Sniper Rifle for sleep killing. The first relies on dodging, the other just never lets the enemy wake up to attack. Core Crusher is just extremely OP (150% damage boost) so most endgame sets sport Ether weapons.

There are a few Photon Saber sets floating around as well since those also have nice damage dealing potential, just less than a LS. I haven't ever used a shield or a gatling gun though. Love the Raygun as well just because of Beam Bomber.

Wait... so you never changed classes so far? It will take some time to cover the progress you lost. I changed classes for variety and realized you can use the previous weapons once I saw I could still equip them after class change. It is mentioned somewhere in the game or manual, just not super obviously.

 

[Chapter Serf]

X question here: How viable is it to mix 'n match weapons from different classes? More specifically, is it viable to take a Sniper Rifle and Photon Blade? Also, is there a limit to how many classes you can level up? I ask because I can't stand the use of Spears. I like the sniper rifle, but I can eat a five course meal in the time it takes to auto attack wit those things. It's rather annoying. When it comes to melee, I prefer fast over hard hitting.

Edit: Also, what's an ideal path of the treasure unlocking traits (Mechanical, Archaeological and Biological)? For me at any rate, I'd like to be able to drop all of the probes? It seems like I'm limited to 10 points and no reset (that I'm aware of) so I need to make 'em count it seems.

 

[LasermasterA]

Chapter Serf

It is very viable to mix and match weapons, and actually recommended. The best sets come from matching two completely different classes' weapons (whose Arts complement each other).

Spoiler: My (lengthy) opinion on Sniper/Photon Saber

I haven't personally used a sniper rifle (on my list to try the sleep sniper set) but it has immense damage potential due to its highly damaging moves like Slayonet (from Boze) and Afterburner (from Lao). These are both multi-hit moves with 700%+ damage boost at max level. The other base moves usually only have one hit but still deal decent damage.

Eagle Eye in my opinion is a decent Sniper rifle buff as it gives you ranged acc. up and ranged atk. up, with tier boosts on multiple cooldowns. Photon Saber is also excellent for damage with it its melee combo moves such as Starfall Blossom, Rondo and the TP move Galactic Cataclysm (huge multipler but only one hit -_-).


Starlight Duster from Doug is another nice move but it deals Gravity Res Down on the opponent which you won't be able to make use of with beam weapons. And it is yet another TP move so yea, try to keep those to 3 in the moveset (1 aura, 2 attack moves). You could remove Cataclysm for Duster (latter is multi-hit) and use a gravity weapon instead.

The main damage dealing Aura you could use is probably Astrolibrium (beam damage up) with beam weapons or Ghost Sniper. Astrolibrium would boost Galactic Cataclysm nicely. Ghost Sniper looks nice as it boosts your crit rate and increases TP with critical hits. This could work nicely with a crit boosting augment or skill like Red Zone (40% crit boost in Overdrive).

The main problem I see with this set is that although it can deal a lot of damage, it doesn't have any TP gaining moves to capitalize on it. The main move would be either Starfall Blossom from the front (upto 320 TP) or Essence Exchange (from Yelv). The former won't really help you maintain overdrive whereas Essence Exchange has to be used above 0 TP (or you die) and leaves you vulnerable after usage. You would need to get a Arts Gain TP augment or Yamato spirit (melee), Third Eye (ranged) or TP overdrive (only during overdrive). You could also try the cooldown reducing moves like Fast Forward and Trigger Happy (I use both). Or you can compromise and include a debuff move like Phenomenon (from Doug and now it is Ether), or Intercept (rifle) as purple moves boost TP during overdrive.

And then comes the problem of surviving. You will probably have a hard time staying alive against high level bosses due to not having the dodge ability of Dual Guns or sleep of knife. Party members aren't that reliable at keeping you alive so yea, great set till end of the game, not so great due to survival issues post-game. Fortified Flesh can help only to an extent.

Oh and Extend Overdrive XX is pretty much a given.

I hope that helped, and not too long (or confusing) xD

Pros: - Super damage
- Nice blend of melee and ranged super-moves
- Unique set, I haven't seen this much personally

Cons: - Survival (not really a superboss set)
- TP gaining can be an issue
- Beam (and Gravity) aren't as strong as Ether

Looks like I might try this as well later :D

And to the last question, no there is no limit to how many classes you can master.

I have already mastered all classes and set myself back to Drifter to gain advantage of 5 skills.

Spears rely more on arts rather than their auto-attacks as they have the highest damage but also highest cool-down. They do pale in front of the longsword which shares these similarities but has some of the strongest moves in the game!

Edit: Mechanical, then archaeological and finally Biological. 9 level ups would make all of these lvl 4 with level 5 skills unlocking with 3 separate normal missions.

 

[Chapter Serf]

It seems that the Knife has better survivability: lots more heals and regens. Maybe I should consider Sniper Rifle/Knife?

 

[LasermasterA]

It seems that the Knife has better survivability: lots more heals and regens. Maybe I should consider Sniper Rifle/Knife?

Sniper Rifle/Knife is definitely one of the better sets. Won't go full ballistic this time xD

Spoiler

You get access to moves like Full Specs which boosts your Sniper Rifle's already high damage.

The Brainjack and Servant Sacrifice combo is great for one-shotting mooks but doesn't work on bosses so redundant there.

It does have quite a few buffs not that you would need many of them but yea Barrier or Repair are both nice options.

Dispel and Black Butterfly actually have decent damage potential, and belong to Ether element so Core Crusher comes in handy.

Then there is always the solo (or partners with Feather Touch) sleep kill setup. Screamer for sleep, Full Specs for damage boost and Sniper for main damage. Skills like Tactical Analyst, Feather Touch, Unpleasant Dream, Core Crusher, maybe Trigger Happy (or Gentle Approach) let you keep the enemy sleeping while you shoot it to death xD

Funnily enough it even works on the very high level tyrants who are not immune to sleep.

Just TP is an issue which you could probably manage with either a skill or Arts: Gain TP augment.

Long story short:
Go for it! The best thing XCX is the things you can mess around with to create a setup which suits you and then make it broken with Augments, top tier weapons and skills.

Although you could still try the saber/sniper setup (which still sounds great). Has nice potential for enemies around your level, just don't expect to kill Luciel or any lvl 70+ tyrant with it.

 

[Chapter Serf]

Thanks for the advice! I'll try both Knife and Photon Sword. Perhaps I'll switch it up. If I'm just clearing out trash and mooks, I'll go with the Light Photon Saber, but for something more serious, I'll bust out the knife. IE: Sharla isn't exactly needed for trash, but trying to take down any boss without her is just asking for a swift and inglorious beat down. Unless the game cheats, in that case you're screwed no matter what.

Spoiler: Xenoblade Chronicles (No X)

I'm looking at you Mechonis/Egil! Try and kill the boss! All the while fending off 50 unnecessary mooks! Then kill the objectives! All the while trying to fend off 50 unnecessary AoE spamming mooks! Yeah, I haven't gotten by that guy yet. Granted, I am 4 levels under him, but NO FAST TRAVEL! And get a weapon for Fiora! WITH NO FAST TRAVEL! God damn it... Yeah, I'm not going very far in that game anymore... =(

One other question (for now), I have come the conclusion that I am utterly inept when it comes to shopping for anyone but myself. Me? I'm easy, I lean heavily towards the Grenanda Galactic Group's light armor line (it looks like Elma' default outfit on females) for the bonus ranged attack. And while I have that down, I'm not 100% sure that's the best way. As for everyone else (Elma, Lin, Doug, <insert other character name here>)? I'm clueless.

 

[LasermasterA]

Thanks for the advice! I'll try both Knife and Photon Sword. Perhaps I'll switch it up. If I'm just clearing out trash and mooks, I'll go with the Light Photon Saber, but for something more serious, I'll bust out the knife. IE: Sharla isn't exactly needed for trash, but trying to take down any boss without her is just asking for a swift and inglorious beat down. Unless the game cheats, in that case you're screwed no matter what.

Good luck!

Spoiler: Xenoblade Chronicles (No X)

I'm looking at you Mechonis/Egil! Try and kill the boss! All the while fending off 50 unnecessary mooks! Then kill the objectives! All the while trying to fend off 50 unnecessary AoE spamming mooks! Yeah, I haven't gotten by that guy yet. Granted, I am 4 levels under him, but NO FAST TRAVEL! And get a weapon for Fiora! WITH NO FAST TRAVEL! God damn it... Yeah, I'm not going very far in that game anymore... =(

Yea getting a weapon for Seven in that area was such a pain without fast travel. Fun though as I killed everything in the way. I do enjoy the music in that area as well so I guess it helped.

One other question (for now), I have come the conclusion that I am utterly inept when it comes to shopping for anyone but myself. Me? I'm easy, I lean heavily towards the Grenanda Galactic Group's light armor line (it looks like Elma' default outfit on females) for the bonus ranged attack. And while I have that down, I'm not 100% sure that's the best way. As for everyone else (Elma, Lin, Doug, <insert other character name here>)? I'm clueless.

Yea I am not much better. Due to the sheer amount of characters in this game (18), I usually don't do super serious shopping for anyone. I just buy them general armour since the extremely good armour pieces with good skills and all, are obtained from drops. Just give them stuff which will suit them I guess. Like Elma gets more evasive stuff, Lin can get a bit more defensive stuff, Doug can get attack up (boost is not that great for ground gear) stuff. Going for heavy armour with Melee or Ranged Attack Up is a safe general strategy for keeping them alive and let them deal (a bit) better damage. Just slap on fashion gear for your desired looks, and remove any real good armour you give them before you dismiss them from your party.

Since the enemies in this game are slightly more advanced and AI is not that good with much stuff, especially maintaining overdrive (even with most TP gaining moves and extend overdrive -_-) , your armour is what you need to pay most attention to. When you reach level 60, store bought armour will become redundant as it only sells till level 55 and with not that great skills.

I do have a really good party with nice dropped armour sets but they still keep dying >.< ugh. Don't spend too much time on customizing your teammates. The arts and skills have a more important role.

I probably spent more time on fashion gear for them. Like my whole party wearing Formal attire or just sporting Hoodies+Jeans, or I just smacked Sport Glasses on everyone xD

 

[Chapter Serf]

It seems that Lin and Elma are perhaps a bit more important since you need to cart them around more often than not.

One thing I am finding though, $$$ ain't an issue. Just plugging probes is more than enough to fund your operation. Never mind what happens when you start throwing down specialized probes. (Oblivia is probably going to be my Miranium warehouse at this...)

 

[Berserker.]

h0I!!!!

im ur new mod temmie!!! replacing brserkers

also @XenoBrawler610 nice avtars

 

[erico9001]

It has been a while since I last posted here. Well, I have been busy doing Shulk things like usual! Currently looking into how many arts you can actually change through in a second - but my real life partner @notyourparadigm just finished our own montage today! I think we've done some cool things :3...

I hope you enjoy!