Shrine Maiden of Paradise ~ Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

[TheTuninator]

I was actually pleased with Byleth in some ways(I was not expecting that, as I was more of an Edelgard supporter when it came to a possible Three Houses rep), so you can imagine how saddening to see such rage over them. I mean, I get disappointment, but some of the stuff I have seen just feels uncalled for and super vitriolic.

Just remember that this stuff is always the work of an extremely vocal minority. Nintendo caters to the fanbase as it actually exists, not as it's represented in niche online communities. That's why we've gotten Wii Fit Trainer, Incineroar, and Byleth, among others. Try not to let the negativity get you down.

 

[zferolie]

I was actually pleased with Byleth in some ways(I was not expecting that, as I was more of an Edelgard supporter when it came to a possible Three Houses rep), so you can imagine how saddening to see such rage over them. I mean, I get disappointment, but some of the stuff I have seen just feels uncalled for and super vitriolic.

Yeah I wasn't a big fan of them but seeing sakurai talk and show them off won me over. Honestly during the trailer I couldn't help smiling, thinking he's doing it, the mad lad did it. The salt will be insane.

Just remember that this stuff is always the work of an extremely vocal minority. Nintendo caters to the fanbase as it actually exists, not as it's represented in niche online communities. That's why we've gotten Wii Fit Trainer, Incineroar, and Byleth, among others. Try not to let the negativity get you down.

I abosultly LOVE wii fit trainer. I suck as her but I loved her ever since her reveal.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

I am curious to see any live reactions from them, just to see how different it was, or simular haha. I am glad they are taking it better then some people here. I get being upset oabout another FE character but some of the rage is uncalled for

Most of Japanese reactions are coming from Nico Nico. Not many on YouTube.
I haven't watch any of them yet so I don't know how they reacted. Here you can find a lot.
My favorite reactioners always don't upload immediately so I'm waiting for them lol.

Japanese reactions
https://sp.nicovideo.jp/search/日本人の反応シリーズ?sort=h&order=d&f_range=0&l_range=0&genre=

Popular Byleth reactions
https://sp.nicovideo.jp/tag/ベレト&ベレスの反応シリーズ?sort=v&order=d&f_range=0&l_range=0&genre=

 

[Dextructor28]

I was annoyed too but Sakurai also won me over
there are still chances for many chars, and we will get 6 in two years
Maybe we see the first really really soon
Is the Switch in China yet? If not, when is it releasing?

 

[perfectchaos83]

I was annoyed too but Sakurai also won me over
there are still chances for many chars, and we will get 6 in two years
Maybe we see the first really really soon
Is the Switch in China yet? If not, when is it releasing?

Switch released in China on Dec 10th. Smash is still not yet out in China yet, thought grey market copies are compatible with Chinese Switch.

 

[Troykv]

I hope Reimu is one of the six characters.

 

[Brazillian Cara]

A couple of questions about the Doujin leak:
-Considering the dates and how the first pass is now finished, would it be realistic to believe that work on the second pass may have started shortly after the initial sales of the first one - or that maybe the second pass was a part of the equation from the very beginning?
-Do we have ANY updates regarding the AoCF port for the Switch? As far as I know, there hasn't been any news about the PS4 version, either.

Also, I have noticed people have begun mentioning Reimu slightly more often - some hopeful, others skeptical. Still, it's a good sign.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Considering the dates and how the first pass is now finished, would it be realistic to believe that work on the second pass may have started shortly after the initial sales of the first one - or that maybe the second pass was a part of the equation from the very beginning?

I think Pass one was finalized around early 2018 to Summer 2018. This is also where I think Pass two was finalized the following year. For me, in order for Doujin leak to be real (Rumblings of Touhou in Smash in April to Music around August) then She'd have to be one of the first revealed in the pass. I've said the only exception would be if she IS being saved for a China reveal, but that's not something to easily theorize

Do we have ANY updates regarding the AoCF port for the Switch? As far as I know, there hasn't been any news about the PS4 version, either.

Far as I know, no. None of the Console ports have any real information.

In a somewhat related matter, any word on Luna Nights release on the Switch? It was supposed to come out in 2019 and it's still MIA.

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

In a somewhat related matter, any word on Luna Nights release on the Switch? It was supposed to come out in 2019 and it's still MIA.

Nothing new on that front I'm afraid. Be it official news or going through the developers twitter posts.

But hey, on the 8th of December, they received a price for "Best Overseas Game", so that's nice. Even ZUN is there.

プロデュースしたTouhou Luna Nightsが中国WeplayインディーゲームアワードBest Overseas Gameを受賞しました！
製作者のlady bugさん、原作者のZUNさんに尊敬と感謝を捧げます pic.twitter.com/pe785YFwRC

— さいとーだいち/Daichi Saito (@daichittaX) December 8, 2019

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

I've been thinking about if Reimu is in FP2, when would ZUN be asked for permission? We know the FP2 lineup was finalized by the Byleth presentation and not much else. So I thought creating a timeline would shed some light on this. I also tried to put some dates for Doujin Rumor events to hopefully get a fresh perspective on that too.

Spoiler: Timeline

March: ZUN interview and mentions interest in smash; Joker is all but done, Hero and Banjo work is in earnest, Terry starts development
April: Joker is released; doujin rumor made public. preempts a soft confirmation of a switch AoCF port and suggests circles are working on music for smash
May: Not too much iirc
June: E3, Hero and Banjo revealed; This is around the earliest I could see FP2 line up decided July: Hero is released, work on Byleth begins
August: iirc the doujin rumor gets an update, but I can't remember how; also iirc, a demo for the AoCF PS4 port is shown off
September: Banjo is released, work on CP6 begins (?); Terry is revealed
October: ZUN interview is released to the public
November: Terry is released, work on CP 7 begins (?); Byleth reveal recorded, some time before that the FP2 line up is finalized

btw, the reason I selected June as the earliest time for FP2 finalization is: 1. any earlier would be premature, as Nintendo would want to ensure high sales for FP1 before comiting to future plans, and two big characters in Hero and Banjo would likely spike sales; 2. an opportunity to directly talk with other companies at E3

IIRC, the way ZUN talked about Reimu in the March interview implied not only that Reimu wasn't in Smash at that time, but ZUN felt that Touhou needed to grow in some intangible way, maybe popularity or notoriety or something. But from the time table that doesn't leave a lot of time for growth, with a generous window of ~3-8 months.

We know from a Sakurai tweet in December of 2018 that for FP1 they worked on 3 chars at a time. This is probably true at least thru to the release of Banjo, as Banjo, Terry, and Byleth would all be worked on. Now, if we assume peak efficiency is maintained, that implies work on CP6 began around Banjo's release, and if that's true then the FP2 line up must have been finalized by the end of August. Referring back to the March interview, that gives ~5 months for Reimu to be considered, possibly less. However, we also know going from FP1 to FP2 the smash team will be scaled back a bit (I've seen this floating around, I think it originates from the press release but best check PushDustin to be sure). Plus we know the release schedule will likely be slower, since they anticipate releasing 6 characters over 2 years as opposed to the one for PP + FP1. Putting that together, they might not only be taking more time to work on characters but working on fewer at a time. Given this, the optimal start date for CP6's development is pushed back to Terry's release, and concurrently the finalization of FP2 to the start of November. This gives a more generous maximum of ~8 months, but in either scenario FP2 was likely finalized well ahead of the start of CP6's development.

As for the Doujin rumor, from what I can tell, within a month ZUN would have gone from publicly saying Reimu hasn't made it to Smash to circles beginning work on remixes for Smash. This cast further doubt on it's validity. Personally, I've begun to think the Doujin rumor was an inside joke taken out of context: something like, "oh yeah, I've started working on that smash remix (lol)"

 

[Soulor]

Heh I don't know about you guys but I hope Minecraft Steve gets in as a Mii Sword Fighter costume. That'd be hilarious.

 

[ABC Swoops]

This recent Smash trend of taking a popular character from a notoriously difficult indie game with good music and making them a costume with a single remix has me kinda worried for Reimu, not gonna lie

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

Not gonna lie, that would be a real bummer. Not the most popular opinion but I'd rather have no Touhou representation at all than a Mii fighter. Not only would it ensure that she has no chance to get in Ultimate anymore for any future spot, it would also leave a bitter taste that a unique fighter like Reimu would get the Mii moveset.

Thankfully, I don't see it happening for Reimu (or Marisa). Sans and Cuphead work really well as Mii fighters with their proprotions being similar and the moveset being in line what the Mii Gunner offers (at least for Cuphead, Sans doesn't really have a moveset) and Reimu just wouldn't. Maybe as sword fighter with her gohei but thats a stretch.

 

[Blankiturayman]

The Mii costumes with music cover the entire head of the Mii (so far) to give a more accurate looking representation of the original character, which of course works for some like Sans and Cuphead as we've seen, but I wouldn't see it working as well for Reimu or an human character in general due to the face. Unless it was a yukkuri head for whatever reason.

 

[Rikarte]

I'm not worried about Reimu getting ReiMii'd for a multitude of reasons but even if she would I'd still be happy because any form of Touhou recognition would be a tremendously huge thing for ZUN.

 

[cwbaaa]

Not gonna lie, that would be a real bummer. Not the most popular opinion but I'd rather have no Touhou representation at all than a Mii fighter. Not only would it ensure that she has no chance to get in Ultimate anymore for any future spot, it would also leave a bitter taste that a unique fighter like Reimu would get the Mii moveset.

Thankfully, I don't see it happening for Reimu (or Marisa). Sans and Cuphead work really well as Mii fighters with their proprotions being similar and the moveset being in line what the Mii Gunner offers (at least for Cuphead, Sans doesn't really have a moveset) and Reimu just wouldn't. Maybe as sword fighter with her gohei but thats a stretch.

I’m with you on this one. Only thing I would dislike more than ReiMii being a thing would actually be if a Flandre costume with UN Owen was the only form of Touhou presence. At that point, I’d rather it didn’t happen at all.

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

I’m with you on this one. Only thing I would dislike more than ReiMii being a thing would actually be if a Flandre costume with UN Owen was the only form of Touhou presence. At that point, I’d rather it didn’t happen at all.

2010 called, they want their overused meme back!

Flandre would be hype (along with Reimu, not instead). I really like her but damn does one get flack for liking her sometimes. "She is so overrated", "U.N. Owen was her is sooo old", "She has no personality!". I mean, the critisicm isn't wrong, mostly, but come on, talking down on someone for what or who they like is pointless. Then again, "your waifu is ****" has been around for a long time now.
Even ZUN seems to dislike her. For all the attention she gets and how popular she is, you'd think that she would get at least "some" attention in the official literature works, like Sakuya, Remilia or Patchouli. Even friggin Tokiko gets more cameos than out little 4th wall breaking Flan.

Well, she finally got her first appearance in what feels like ages in the new detective Satori Manga, so there is that. I guess I can't complain anymore.

 

[cwbaaa]

Oh, I don’t have a problem with Flandre at all. I just don’t think it would be fitting for her to be the face of Touhou and overshadow Reimu and Marisa outside the Touhou fandom, especially if it was Smash.
But of course, since Sans made it in, I could definitely see it happening.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I don't think ZUN dislikes Flandre. It's just he doesn't know what to do with her. There isn't a whole lot you can do with a small vampire that is mostly mansion/basement bound that even her family does not want her to go out at least story-wise.

Saying that, I know if we get Reimu, we'll get a Flandre spirit for sure. Costume, I kinda doubt it because we have others like Marisa or Yukari unless they pull what they did with Joker and give us a good chunk of Touhou Mii costumes on top of Reimu.

 

[cosmicB]

Honestly, it feels like a Mii costume might be our only hope if we look at this from a logical/pattern perspective. Zun talks about the possibility of branching out, but that doesn't usually start out with something crazy like one of the limited character spots in the biggest video game crossover in history. Yeah, it's a franchise that has history and internet presence and all that, but it's also part of its own bubble in a lot of ways, just like Undertale (albeit to a MUCH lesser extent in Japan).

I of course hope to be wrong and it's not like Sakurai has surprised us before with semi-regional picks, but it just feels like a costume is coming if any content at all.

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

I don't think ZUN dislikes Flandre. It's just he doesn't know what to do with her. There isn't a whole lot you can do with a small vampire that is mostly mansion/basement bound that even her family does not want her to go out at least story-wise.

Thats something I don't really buy. It would be easy to create a plotline where Remilia would be less strict about her going outside after Flandre got beaten by some lazy shrine maiden / ordinary magician, i.e. there are people to able to stop her or that she became more docile after said encounter, or something. ZUN is a creative guy. If he wanted, he could make it work. Additionally to that, Patchouli also shows up frequently but is seldom seen outside her library. The scarlet devil mansions interior is a common scene, so giving flandre not even a cameo from time to time just seems weird to me - well, "seemed". That point is moot now that she showed up.

Honestly, it feels like a Mii costume might be our only hope if we look at this from a logical/pattern perspective. Zun talks about the possibility of branching out, but that doesn't usually start out with something crazy like one of the limited character spots in the biggest video game crossover in history. Yeah, it's a franchise that has history and internet presence and all that, but it's also part of its own bubble in a lot of ways, just like Undertale (albeit to a MUCH lesser extent in Japan).

I of course hope to be wrong and it's not like Sakurai has surprised us before with semi-regional picks, but it just feels like a costume is coming if any content at all.

Which is why I believe that Reimu kinda stands on top of other indie franchises. Nintendo is a japanese company, hence Touhou should be a lot more known to them or Sakurai (It surprised me how many people recognize Touhou characters in Japan). Then again, arguing about this point is sadly pointless as no one of us can look into the mind of the man responsible for the selection.

I still would find it funny if Sakurai is a closet Touhou fan and when he finally gets to show it off, he nerds out kinda like he did with Terry.

 

[Troykv]

Thats something I don't really buy. It would be easy to create a plotline where Remilia would be less strict about her going outside after Flandre got beaten by some lazy shrine maiden / ordinary magician, i.e. there are people to able to stop her or that she became more docile after said encounter, or something. ZUN is a creative guy. If he wanted, he could make it work. Additionally to that, Patchouli also shows up frequently but is seldom seen outside her library. The scarlet devil mansions interior is a common scene, so giving flandre not even a cameo from time to time just seems weird to me - well, "seemed". That point is moot now that she showed up.


Which is why I believe that Reimu kinda stands on top of other indie franchises. Nintendo is a japanese company, hence Touhou should be a lot more known to them or Sakurai (It surprised me how many people recognize Touhou characters in Japan). Then again, arguing about this point is sadly pointless as no one of us can look into the mind of the man responsible for the selection.

I still would find it funny if Sakurai is a closet Touhou fan and when he finally gets to show it off, he nerds out kinda like he did with Terry.

I mean, Sakurai has show he has a thing for shooters considering how it implement it in pretty much all the Kirby games he developed (Kirby Dream Land has the Sweet Potato scenarios like Kabula's fight; Kirby's Adventure has Nightmare Ball, and Kirby Super Star has the battle in Nova), and that ended up turning into a tradition for most of the games.

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

I mean, Sakurai has show he has a thing for shooters considering how it implement it in pretty much all the Kirby games he developed (Kirby Dream Land has the Sweet Potato scenarios like Kabula's fight; Kirby's Adventure has Nightmare Ball, and Kirby Super Star has the battle in Nova), and that ended up turning into a tradition for most of the games.

Yeah, but more the space ship type Life force, galaga, r-type and the like. He even collects miniature models of those ships.

There was no sign of anything Touhou related in his interview about his gaming collection, unfortunately.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

Yeah, but more the space ship type Life force, galaga, r-type and the like. He even collects miniature models of those ships.

There was no sign of anything Touhou related in his interview about his gaming collection, unfortunately.

Can you link the interview where he talks about that?

 

[EarlTamm]

I feel like I am steadily seeing more and more popular Reimu related Smash tweets, so I think that's a good sign.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Either that or I just see a lot of Reimu fans by coincidence.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Yeah, but more the space ship type Life force, galaga, r-type and the like. He even collects miniature models of those ships.

There was no sign of anything Touhou related in his interview about his gaming collection, unfortunately.

There is one thing Touhou has over the other Shmups he brought up and that it's humanoid characters and not full blown ships. Unless we get a sentient Vic Viper, I imagine Sakurai could see a Touhou character would be easier to implement than other Shmup characters, which are mostly ships.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

Getting a sustained, wide, positive presence in the smash community is definitely the way forward to solidifying Reimu's popularity

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

Can you link the interview where he talks about that?

Here's the original interview. (Japanese) From 2016

And here again in English, courtesy of Source Gaming : Part 1 Part 2

Interesting read. I wonder how the man has time to work on and direct games in Japan and work himself like crazy but also finds the time to accommodate time to so many games and franchises.

I feel like I am steadily seeing more and more popular Reimu related Smash tweets, so I think that's a good sign.

If Reimu Hakurei got in Smash. pic.twitter.com/cEKJLpv4KI

— Fran (@franmm127) January 21, 2020

Either that or I just see a lot of Reimu fans by coincidence.

Well, a lot of people came out of their holes recently, with Reimu actually having a resemblence of a chance to get into Smash.

Regarding the gif: The other extreme, each projectile that hits you, makes you go *pichun* and you lose a stock. Would need a smaller hitbox though, especially Reimu.

There is one thing Touhou has over the other Shmups he brought up and that it's humanoid characters and not full blown ships. Unless we get a sentient Vic Viper, I imagine Sakurai could see a Touhou character would be easier to implement than other Shmup characters, which are mostly ships.

Or he avoided Touhou exactly because its uncool girls instead of cool spaceships and has no interest in the series, whatsoever. #pessimism

 

[Paraster]

I feel like I am steadily seeing more and more popular Reimu related Smash tweets, so I think that's a good sign.

If Reimu Hakurei got in Smash. pic.twitter.com/cEKJLpv4KI

— Fran (@franmm127) January 21, 2020

Either that or I just see a lot of Reimu fans by coincidence.

I actually tested, and "reimu smash" or "reimu smash bros" is the first result when typing "reimu" into Google, Bing, or Ecosia. Make of that what you will.

 

[Extremmefan]

Oh I didn't know there was thread for Reimu here.
I'd be down for it. Touhou has amazing music that I'd love to have in Smash.

 

[Troykv]

Reimu has a smaller hitbox around the center that makes her pretty much inmune to low attacks, but it's also extremely light, like Pichu's levels of light.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Here's GDQ's Luna Nights run with Reverse Boss order. They have a nice fumo collection too

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

Here's GDQ's Luna Nights run with Reverse Boss order. They have a nice fumo collection too

Weren't fumos banned at AGDQ a few years ago? I remember that Reimu had always a place on the couch in older AGDQs.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Weren't fumos banned at AGDQ a few years ago? I remember that Reimu had always a place on the couch in older AGDQs.

I always get excited when I see a Reimu fumo on the Couch. lol. Or any Fumo really.

Why would they ban Fumos, though?

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

I always get excited when I see a Reimu fumo on the Couch. lol. Or any Fumo really.

Why would they ban Fumos, though?

Nothing official to go by except their rule that nothing is allowed to be brought on camera without consent, but if a few Twitter and 4Chan posts are to be believed, the reasons include:
- Too distracting for runners to perform.
- AGDQ's change to be more corporate and advertiser friendly made them wary of almost anything, including plushies.
- apparently some girl in the crowd complained vocaly to the event staff that the fumo got more attention than her and threw a fit.
- Event staff having a dislike for Touhou.
- People on camera were seen humping the fumos. (please don't hump the fumos)

But its the internet, so take it with a grain of salt. Though, AGDQ's change to be more advertiser friendly is a safe bet. They've made some questionable decisions in the past few years, like banning a multitude of speedrunners for trifle stuff. Some got even banned for jokes they did on their own stream outside of AGDQ. I wouldn't put it past them to ban, or at least severly limit, the presence of plushies of anime girls.

 

[zferolie]

I really want to play touhou luna nights, but want to wait till the switch version. It is getting a switch version right?

And random touhou vid of the day.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Nothing official to go by except their rule that nothing is allowed to be brought on camera without consent, but if a few Twitter and 4Chan posts are to be believed, the reasons include:
- Too distracting for runners to perform.
- AGDQ's change to be more corporate and advertiser friendly made them wary of almost anything, including plushies.
- apparently some girl in the crowd complained vocaly to the event staff that the fumo got more attention than her and threw a fit.
- Event staff having a dislike for Touhou.
- People on camera were seen humping the fumos. (please don't hump the fumos)

But its the internet, so take it with a grain of salt. Though, AGDQ's change to be more advertiser friendly is a safe bet. They've made some questionable decisions in the past few years, like banning a multitude of speedrunners for trifle stuff. Some got even banned for jokes they did on their own stream outside of AGDQ. I wouldn't put it past them to ban, or at least severly limit, the presence of plushies of anime girls.

I think it's less "Dislike" for Touhou and more Advertiser friendly. I'm sure there's staff who like Touhou otherwise that would be petty. If anything it's the advertisers reasons. Especially given the.... risque reputation of anime fumos and anime merch, even if Touhou is very tame.

Though I wanna imagine being someone advertising AGDQ, they go on to see a stream, and they see someones Koishi fumo staring into their soul.

 

[perfectchaos83]

I got Genso Wanderer Reloded today~ So excited to give that a shot

Nothing official to go by except their rule that nothing is allowed to be brought on camera without consent, but if a few Twitter and 4Chan posts are to be believed, the reasons include:
- Too distracting for runners to perform.
- AGDQ's change to be more corporate and advertiser friendly made them wary of almost anything, including plushies.
- apparently some girl in the crowd complained vocaly to the event staff that the fumo got more attention than her and threw a fit.
- Event staff having a dislike for Touhou.
- People on camera were seen humping the fumos. (please don't hump the fumos)

But its the internet, so take it with a grain of salt. Though, AGDQ's change to be more advertiser friendly is a safe bet. They've made some questionable decisions in the past few years, like banning a multitude of speedrunners for trifle stuff. Some got even banned for jokes they did on their own stream outside of AGDQ. I wouldn't put it past them to ban, or at least severly limit, the presence of plushies of anime girls.

Sounds like a bunch of silly ****. lol

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

I got Genso Wanderer Reloded today~ So excited to give that a shot

Fantastic game that will see you spend hours on hours on it. Still my favorite released fangame. The mechanics need some getting used to but after the initial hurdles, the game is really enjoyable.

The endgame dungeons after the story are just gruelinlgy cruel, however. A no bomb no miss run on any Touhou game is easier than those dungeons.

 

[nessdeltarune00]

What is the consensus here about Reimus chances?

And is the Doujin rumor still in play?