Shrine Maiden of Paradise ~ Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

[KarneraMythos]

Dang, the only reasons I can think of the peeps in Japan not wanting her is 1) they think someone else is a better fit to rep touhou on smash 2) they'd rather touhou not be in such a big game or not be lumped with smash fans for some reason. 3) they just plain don't want touhou in smash

It's mostly a combination of 2) and 3).

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Some people really hate the idea of Touhou being in anything mainstream to keep its Doujin status. Some people were even hesitant of the English localizations of the fangames and Steam releases, too.

At least this is what I assume: People afraid of Touhou losing its identity if Reimu gets in Smash because Smash is mainstream.

 

[KarneraMythos]

Some people really hate the idea of Touhou being in anything mainstream to keep its Doujin status. Some people were even hesitant of the English localizations of the fangames and Steam releases, too.

At least this is what I assume: People afraid of Touhou losing its identity if Reimu gets in Smash because Smash is mainstream.

See, this fear would be justifiable in Touhou's case since it's managed to keep on strong for over two decades in spite of its niche status, but there are series that are represented in Smash already and their fanbases haven't increased all that much.

Here's a good example of what I mean (sorry to those it may offend): The Xenoblade fanbase and the Smash portion of the Xenoblade fanbase are two very different factions. While Shulk's inclusion back in Smash 4 certainly brought the series some relevancy with the gaming community, it hasn't grown so much that the Xeno name became mainstream.

To this very day, it remains contentious with the gaming community as a whole, and only slightly better off than it was initially with a niche entry like Xenoblade Chronicles for the Wii. I'd wager that Touhou would fall into a similar well where there will be people who are curious at about her at first, look up some stuff, then bail out when they realize how heavy the fan content already is. Those who enjoy what the series has to offer stick around, but they are few in numbers.

TL;DR, the fears are completely misplaced because we already have niche reps in Smash that haven't garnered a dummy-huge amount of fans like some people assume.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Would Reimu in Smash bring more eyes to Touhou? Yes. Would it change things negatively? The only things Reimu getting into the games would do is likely up Touhous International popularity and maybe give a resurgence to it. It's not gonna do anything too negative. Like the most negative thing I can think of are the reactions people will give when she gets in Smash which.... Let's face it, almost every newcomer is gonna feel the wrath of the Smash fanbase, especially whoever is gonna be shown tomorrow.

And really, with the interview from a while back with ZUN dropping Smash is any indication, even ZUN knows it'll only bring positive things without hurting Touhous identity.

 

[Deleted member]

Good luck for tomorrow contreras.

 

[TheTuninator]

If I were in your shoes, I'd assume they're making fun of me, lmao. The only comments I have ever seen from them regarding Reimu is nothing but sheer disdain for the character, or at least the idea of her being a newcomer in Smash. That's just me though: A certified pessimist.

Touhou's Japanese fanbase is waaayy bigger than its Western one, and seemingly more passionate as well, so this seems like a wildly pessimistic take. I'm sure many Japanese gamers don't like the series, but that's where the core of the fanbase lives as well.

The Reimu For Smash account is getting some traction overseas. More and more Japanese fans are messaging me and quote RTing my stuff. I'm getting kinda nervous, kinda worried that I'll be what Japanese fans think of when they think of overseas Touhou and Smash fans. I can only hope I'm making a good impression.

I think you've been a good and fun ambassador for the series, so don't sweat it too much.

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

We had the "Touhou going mainstream" thing already with the slew of music videos back in 2010-2012. U.N. Owen was her?, Night of Nights and the notorious bad apple pv were pretty much in everyone's recommendations list. Touhou's popularity rose significantly in the west due to these videos and brought a lot of "casual" fans, that enjoyed the franchise without ever having touched the games and a good chunk of those also came to really like the games. The fangames ported to the Switch helped, too and we even got a lot of Touhou games on Steam. Who would have though, ten years ago, that Touhou would show up on Steam?!

But yeah, I'm pretty sure that Touhou fans that are opposed to Reimu's integration are afraid of Touhou going in an unfavorable direction and maybe even opposed to have a new batch of fans. But then again, ZUN is already going in new directions. We even got a friggin gacha game. But he is also still releasing mainline games and manga so its not a change in direction but branching out to multiple routes. And thats a good thing.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Honestly, the possibility of Reimu going into Smash, even if she doesn't get in, is just a sign that the fanbase and franchise is growing. It's not going in a unfavorable direction. If anything, it's just a sign of growing for the Touhou community while still retaining its doujin status.

And will be a growing experience for the Smash fanbase too because we'd potentially get our first Indie character.

That's how I see it anyways.

 

[MindlessMage]

The messages as responses I've received from overseas have always been positive. I've only seen like two negatives but those were just "I don't think she'll ever happen." I think the main argument against her over there has been that she's not as popular over here but the Reimu For Smash account seems to have been a testament against that.

Maybe they respect me in a way? I have no idea.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

Whattup Reimu thread! I haven't posted here in a while (though I have been lurking). Regardless of the outcome for this character reveal, I trust Sakurai's judgment in the character selection, and I'm sure Sakurai understands how important a franchise like Touhou is to so many people. I'm not expecting a Reimu reveal tomorrow, as I've always firmly believed that Reimu is post-pass material if she were ever included.

Regarding the negative reactions on Reimu in Smash, the only opinion that really matters is ZUN and Sakurai. And we know for a fact that ZUN wants Touhou content in Smash. If these people were true Touhou fans, they would have to at least respect the wishes of the head priest. And besides, focusing on the negativity is useless. Look how much Reimu support has grown over the past few months. We're becoming one of the frontrunners in Smash roster speculation, which is pretty amazing considering the type of franchise Touhou is. Anyways, let's all have a fun character reveal and pray we survive the costume purge.

 

[Soulor]

I thought it was Nintendo pulling the strings getting characters and Sakurai giving the OK If he can make them a fighter.

Cus' If it were up to Sakurai we'd probably have another FE or KI rep as DLC by now.

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

Really a bummer that I can't follow the direct live but hey, at least I'll be home a few hours after. So, remember:
With Reimu not being FP5, the important thing is not Reimu's inclusion but the friends we made along the way.

alway rember happy day

 

[TheTuninator]

Really a bummer that I can't follow the direct live but hey, at least I'll be home a few hours after. So, remember:
With Reimu not being FP5, the important thing is not Reimu's inclusion but the friends we made along the way.

View attachment 257908
alway rember happy day

But what if the friends we made along the way are always causing incidents, the jackanapes?

 

[perfectchaos83]

I know Reimu's not FP5, but I'm having my Flandre and Reimu Plushies watching the direct for luck.

 

[TheTuninator]

"Too many swordsmen?" Hahahaha, oh man, this is great. The madman does it again!

 

[Soulor]

Well damn.

F.

So says the livefeed, lol.

This'll be a hoot.

 

[perfectchaos83]

Another Indie Costume and Reimu lives with 6 more spots on the table. If I can't have Ashley, Reimu's the next best thing.

 

[Dextructor28]

I'm not dissapointed because it's not Reimu, I didnt seriously expect her for FP5

I'm dissapointed that it is another Fire Emblem chara with nothing special on it... I dont hate the saga, I've played many games, and heck, this comes from someone who mains Marth since Melee.
It's just.... Same thing again? Sure...

 

[TheTuninator]

Presumably Sans sold so well that they decided to keep adding more costumes in that vein. If the trend of a mii costume plus a music track for series with a strong music focus continues, I actually think Touhou has a pretty good shot at getting one, if Reimu's not an actual rep.

Six more reps is nothing but good news for her chances, in any case, as the more the big names get filtered out the better a B-list option like Reimu looks.

 

[Rikarte]

Well, that's another Indie character out of the running... 6 more chances for Reimu to actually join! 0:

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

But what if the friends we made along the way are always causing incidents, the jackanapes?

Just beat them up and they'll turn up at your door to drink and have fun. Works like a charm.

Byleth... kinda underwhelming but not disappointed. I liked Three Houses.

 

[Soulor]

I like how everyone is focusing on the mii costumes and not the 5th dlc fighter, some not even mentioning it.

That's why wave 2 has 6 slots, 1 extra to make up for this. Let's just pretend this never happened and we are all still awaiting the next DLC fighter to be revealed! lol.

 

[TheTuninator]

I like how everyone is focusing on the mii costumes and not the 5th dlc fighter, some not even mentioning it.

That's why wave 2 has 6, 1 extra to make up for this. Let's just pretend this never happened. lol.

Some people may not want to hear this, but I think the salt is pretty unwarranted, honestly. These kinds of communities can get way too wrapped up in the conventional wisdom about who's a "frontrunner" or which obscure character "deserves" to be in, and in doing so lose sight of what really matters, the mainstream fanbase. The fact is that Fire Emblem is one of the most popular franchises of modern Nintendo, and that Three Houses is one of the most popular first-party games on the Switch. Byleth wouldn't have been my first choice, but they certainly deserve inclusion, they rep FE in a much more holistic way, and they look fun to play. I'm excited to get my hands on the controls with them once the DLC drops.

 

[zferolie]

I think the hate Byleth is gonna get is dumb, and not needed. Still, if this was all the originally planned DLC we were gonna get, this would have been a terrible way to end

Reimu and Shantae are the top Indie characters still having a chance. I think if an indie character isn't that human or have different heads, they may get the mii costume treatment. I can see Hallow Knight getting a mii costume now

 

[TheTuninator]

I think the hate Byleth is gonna get is dumb, and not needed. Still, if this was all the originally planned DLC we were gonna get, this would have been a terrible way to end

Reimu and Shantae are the top Indie characters still having a chance. I think if an indie character isn't that human or have different heads, they may get the mii costume treatment. I can see Hallow Knight getting a mii costume now

I'm very skeptical of Shante's chances, to be honest, given how obscure the series is even by indie standards. Touhou is about a million times bigger, and even Reimu's chances are pretty slim. I can definitely see a Hollow Knight mii costume, though.

 

[Soulor]

Yeah, the smash subreddit is in "shambles". I suppose people on Twitter are losing it as well. Some Smash fans seem to hate FE with a passion now, or even more so lol. Some FE fans don't even know how to feel right now, in a bad way.

I on the other hand, I guess I'm just feeling underwhelmed for this long awaited 5th DLC fighter. I don't even own ultimate or a Switch tho so whatever tbh.

That direct was basically a 3H commercial lol. Im indifferent to FE, most I've played of the series was on the GBA and mobile game. lol. Hav fun y'all.

 

[Chen Yakumo]

it’s been a while huh? It’s pretty amusing to see how much people rage at not having their special little character get in. Honestly, a part of me doesn’t want Reimu in smash because A) Her natural bullet gameplay would piss people off hardcore and B) Some Touhou fans wouldn’t even be happy if there’s small things missing. I don’t anticipate that being the case because like what was shown with Joker, Sakurai has a very elegant way of paying tribute to characters, but I have a feeling 2hu fans, especially the ones on Reddit, wouldn’t be so easily appeased.

 

[zferolie]

I'm very skeptical of Shante's chances, to be honest, given how obscure the series is even by indie standards. Touhou is about a million times bigger, and even Reimu's chances are pretty slim. I can definitely see a Hollow Knight mii costume, though.

Well she is bigger in the west, and Reimu is bigger in the East. I still am routing for both

 

[swinn]

it’s been a while huh? It’s pretty amusing to see how much people rage at not having their special little character get in. Honestly, a part of me doesn’t want Reimu in smash because A) Her natural bullet gameplay would piss people off hardcore and B) Some Touhou fans wouldn’t even be happy if there’s small things missing. I don’t anticipate that being the case because like what was shown with Joker, Sakurai has a very elegant way of paying tribute to characters, but I have a feeling 2hu fans, especially the ones on Reddit, wouldn’t be so easily appeased.

actually, as a frequent member of the Touhou subreddit, the main thing relating to Smash is A. people get really excited just at the concept of Touhou being repped, and B. the mods are afraid of what's gonna happen if Reimu DOES get in, because there's nowhere near enough mods atm for the likely temporary spike in posts.

 

[zferolie]

Hmm, I am seeing talk that this may have been a rushed forced pick, and the actual FP5 was moved to the next pass. Right after they Announced Byleth they showed off more FE three houses DLC, so people are thinking they added Byleth in after the huge success of that game.

How do you guys feel about that theory?

 

[Chen Yakumo]

Hmm, I am seeing talk that this may have been a rushed forced pick, and the actual FP5 was moved to the next pass. Right after they Announced Byleth they showed off more FE three houses DLC, so people are thinking they added Byleth in after the huge success of that game.

How do you guys feel about that theory?

I guess it would explain why this direct came straight outta nowhere, was in line with Three Houses DLC, and also why pack 2 has six instead of 5

 

[TheTuninator]

Hmm, I am seeing talk that this may have been a rushed forced pick, and the actual FP5 was moved to the next pass. Right after they Announced Byleth they showed off more FE three houses DLC, so people are thinking they added Byleth in after the huge success of that game.

How do you guys feel about that theory?

That sounds like more unfounded speculation, honestly. Sakurai stated that he played a dev build of the game before its release specifically to do research for Smash, so Byleth has clearly been in development for a very long time.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

Ok looking forward, we’ve got two years for 6 characters to release at an average of 3 per year. Also, they were decided on by at least November 2019. Thus our most important question: by November 2019, did Reimu have enough acumen for Sakurai and Co. to reach out to ZUN?

If the lineup for the second Fighters Pass is already decided, then our options are 1: she’s in and any campaigning only improves her reception. OR 2: she isn’t in, and any campaigning will only improve her chances after FP2. (FP meaning Fighters Pass, CP is Character Pack)

If FP2 lasts until 2021, and it sells well enough for a FP3, that suggests they’ll decide on FP3 by early 2021 and finalize characters by mid 2021. This gives us a year and change to make Reimu unequivocally the most popular newcomer to guarantee a spot by FP3, assuming she doesn’t arrive in FP2. She might be included in FP2, but we should proceed as if she isn’t. Assume we have to raise her popularity tenfold to get into smash. We should strive to push momentum not coast on what we have; Reimu’s in a good spot in Smash Speculation, with pull from top Players (Samsora, Light, Cosmos) and Alpharad, as well as the second most followed ForSmash twitter, but we shouldn’t rest on laurels. We should shoot higher. I’m not saying give up hope, I’m saying the best strategy is to prep for the worst and affect way we know we can.

Basically, we still have work ahead of us to ensure Touhou representation in Ultimate.


EDIT:
Uh, I just saw the 5chan rumor/"leak" asserting FP3 has already been decided on and negotiations are under way, and if that's true, uh, well...

idk, nothin' to do but pray then

 

[KahunaLagoona DX]

Was kinda hoping for Reimu... Kinda hoping for Ezio too but... Hopefully they're a part of the next pass so I can get them and my music in there.

I guess it would explain why this direct came straight outta nowhere, was in line with Three Houses DLC, and also why pack 2 has six instead of 5

I wouldn't really even call this a Direct, if anything we might get an actual direct on the 28th when Byleth drops.

 

[Soulor]

I'm hoping for a Fighter Pass 3.

Buuuuut that'll be like 2 years from now and who the heck even knows how Smash and the Switch will be by then. Heck, there still hasn't really been a reason for me buy a Switch yet. No telling if I'd have one 2 years from now!

Anywho, they might be done with DLC and release an ULTIMATE version of Smash Ultimate lol. As for the Switch a Pro/2.0 might be released to extend the life of the Switch. Even so, I still think they might just port Ultimate to whatever console is after the Switch.

Also, maybe they'll put Smash on the PS5 and that new XBox. I'd say Smash is more than just a Nintendo game by now or even then, a port of that ULTIMATE version on every console would make so much money. Maybe even on PC lol.

 

[Sc_Ev0lution]

Personally I doubt Nintendo would relinquish it's Crown Jewel.

Regardless, I still think the best way to proceed is as if we still can have an impact. I know Sakurai specifically said asking him on Twitter is futile, and I agree. There's no point asking Sakurai directly, either for FP2 or beyond, but we can popularize Reimu among fans.

While I can't say I have a concrete strategy atm, I think the best approach is a subtle one. Look at how the Geno and Waluigi fandoms are perceived: loud, obnoxious, and intrusive. Getting a reputation as a respectable bunch will go a long way to solidifying Reimu's base.

Like, avoid commenting "Reimu for Smash!" under every NoA tweet, instead try only to comment when Smash is brought up first. Draw Smash x Touhou art, use Touhou music in Smash videos, etc. And, idk, just generally show your better side.

 

[zferolie]

So anyone here have an idea how Japan is handeling the Byleth news? I hope better then some of the fans here and in europe

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

So anyone here have an idea how Japan is handeling the Byleth news? I hope better then some of the fans here and in europe

Pretty much the same mixed feelings but slightly better I guess since people just won't go fully on rampage for these things here really especially smash fans. Nintendo fans here are quite tamed.

 

[zferolie]

Pretty much the same mixed feelings but slightly better I guess since people just won't go fully on rampage for these things here really especially smash fans. Nintendo fans here are quite tamed.

I am curious to see any live reactions from them, just to see how different it was, or simular haha. I am glad they are taking it better then some people here. I get being upset oabout another FE character but some of the rage is uncalled for

 

[EarlTamm]

I am curious to see any live reactions from them, just to see how different it was, or simular haha. I am glad they are taking it better then some people here. I get being upset oabout another FE character but some of the rage is uncalled for

I was actually pleased with Byleth in some ways(I was not expecting that, as I was more of an Edelgard supporter when it came to a possible Three Houses rep), so you can imagine how saddening to see such rage over them. I mean, I get disappointment, but some of the stuff I have seen just feels uncalled for and super vitriolic.