Shrine Maiden of Paradise ~ Reimu Hakurei (Touhou Project)

Sysreq

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2018
Messages
221
Location
The Wired
I agree with a lot of your post, but this part is probably a bit more relevant to what I'm about to say.

It also doesn't help that a huge amount of the western player base resorts to piracy (For fairly obvious reasons). It's not exactly a series you can tell someone to get on steam (Though, that has changed, but still only in Japanese). Telling someone to pirate a game to be able to play it isn't something a lot of people would be willing to do, even if it is as simple as downloading an executable. It's really only within the past 3 years (When NISA released Genso Rondo) That Touhou has been officially penetrating the western market rather than through the essential Internet Black Market.
This is an interesting point and, to be honest, I think it kind of hurts Reimu's chances. Say Reimu is added, people think she looks really cool, but there's no real way to actually support the series (in the west) outside of a few fan games. If some of the original games got an eShop release proper like the Neo Geo arcade classics, I think Reimu would be in business.
 
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
1,751
This is an interesting point and, to be honest, I think it kind of hurts Reimu's chances. Say Reimu is added, people think she looks really cool, but there's no real way to actually support the series (in the west) outside of a few fan games. If some of the original games got an eShop release proper like the Neo Geo arcade classics, I think Reimu would be in business.
We already know Antinomy of Common Flowers is coming to the Switch. So it's something. I doubt we'd get any sort of collection though, I heard ZUN lost the Source code to a few of the early Windows games.
 

SneakyLink

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
6,212
Location
Oz
NNID
bne9635
Switch FC
SW 6259 3694 6593
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
1,751

KarneraMythos

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
2,412
Location
KarneraMythos#2374 (on Discord)
NNID
KarMythos
Switch FC
SW-3554-9727-0109
This is an interesting point and, to be honest, I think it kind of hurts Reimu's chances. Say Reimu is added, people think she looks really cool, but there's no real way to actually support the series (in the west) outside of a few fan games. If some of the original games got an eShop release proper like the Neo Geo arcade classics, I think Reimu would be in business.
If it's any consolation, Joker's presence in Nintendo titles is very small, and there doesn't seem to be any real incentive in bringing Persona 5 on the Switch. There's also Banjo being a console-rep who's in a similar spot to Joker. That being said, both characters have games available that can be purchased officially in the West, so they're an exception. On the flip side, they attract customers to their games on their consoles, so Nintendo still "loses" either way. Hypothetically, Reimu's potential inclusion – in spite of the unfavorable circumstances – would not be that unusual.
 

Sysreq

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2018
Messages
221
Location
The Wired
We already know Antinomy of Common Flowers is coming to the Switch. So it's something. I doubt we'd get any sort of collection though, I heard ZUN lost the Source code to a few of the early Windows games.
Dang, that sucks. Good about Antinomy of Common Flowers though.

For the curious, we could get news on the fifth fighter around this time.

Originally found in the Doomguy thread.
I'm just expecting them to be revealed at the same time Terry is shown off. That's the assumption I'm making and if I'm wrong I don't really mind lol
If it's any consolation, Joker's presence in Nintendo titles is very small, and there doesn't seem to be any real incentive in bringing Persona 5 on the Switch. There's also Banjo being a console-rep who's in a similar spot to Joker. That being said, both characters have games available that can be purchased officially in the West, so they're an exception. On the flip side, they attract customers to their games on their consoles, so Nintendo still "loses" either way. Hypothetically, Reimu's potential inclusion – in spite of the unfavorable circumstances – would not be that unusual.
Sure, but the immense power Smash wields in spreading knowledge shouldn't be wasted, whether it be to Nintendo's benefit or not. The fans should have a way to support the creators. So instead of Reimu coming out and every interested casual being forced to google Touhou and then DL a game on their computer, there'd be something on the eshop they could get instead. That's just how I feel at least.
 

KarneraMythos

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Messages
2,412
Location
KarneraMythos#2374 (on Discord)
NNID
KarMythos
Switch FC
SW-3554-9727-0109
Sure, but the immense power Smash wields in spreading knowledge shouldn't be wasted, whether it be to Nintendo's benefit or not. The fans should have a way to support the creators. So instead of Reimu coming out and every interested casual being forced to google Touhou and then DL a game on their computer, there'd be something on the eshop they could get instead. That's just how I feel at least.
Oh no doubt. I like to think that the possibility suggests something like that in the future, but it all depends on how ZUN would want to approach that himself. If he truly seriously lost that sort of content, nothing is stopping him from porting the latest entry to the Switch and giving the older entries a revisit (i.e. remaking them from the ground up).

If there are no plans for Western market exposure with his fingerprints laid out, then her chances could be alarmingly low. She's already on thin ice anyway.
 

Sc_Ev0lution

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 22, 2016
Messages
22
Oh no doubt. I like to think that the possibility suggests something like that in the future, but it all depends on how ZUN would want to approach that himself. If he truly seriously lost that sort of content, nothing is stopping him from porting the latest entry to the Switch and giving the older entries a revisit (i.e. remaking them from the ground up).

If there are no plans for Western market exposure with his fingerprints laid out, then her chances could be alarmingly low. She's already on thin ice anyway.
I mostly agree, if ZUN doesn't start making moves Reimu's chances might go down. Still, it's worth considering if, say, tomorrow a set of Megaman-legacy style collections for Touhou were announced (Just for fun: 1-5, 6-9, 10-13, 14-17), would that make it too obvious Reimu is in? And now there's the Xbox factor to consider; what if Sakurai says something like: "these games are great for shooter fans; please go play them, on Steam?"

I still think it would be a missed opportunity for all parties if Touhou wasn't made easily available worldwide on Switch, but at least many are on Steam and the main demographic, Japan, should already have easy enough access.
 

Exiliify

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
102
I mostly agree, if ZUN doesn't start making moves Reimu's chances might go down. Still, it's worth considering if, say, tomorrow a set of Megaman-legacy style collections for Touhou were announced (Just for fun: 1-5, 6-9, 10-13, 14-17), would that make it too obvious Reimu is in? And now there's the Xbox factor to consider; what if Sakurai says something like: "these games are great for shooter fans; please go play them, on Steam?"

I still think it would be a missed opportunity for all parties if Touhou wasn't made easily available worldwide on Switch, but at least many are on Steam and the main demographic, Japan, should already have easy enough access.
Honestly the longer she goes the more likely her chances are as long as DLC is being continued. ZUN will still be the main factor though whether she does get in. With how much exposure Touhou is getting with fangames have been getting seems like he is more open to allow Reimu into something like smash. But i would expect him to be heavily involved with the design process like with Twilight Frontier and the fighting games
 
Last edited:

Sysreq

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2018
Messages
221
Location
The Wired
Honestly the longer she goes the more likely her chances are as long as DLC is being continued. ZUN will still be the main factor though whether she does get in. With how much exposure Touhou is getting with fangames have been getting seems like he is more open to allow Reimu into smash.
I think most game developers would welcome their character's inclusion into Smash. Like, I have a hard time imagining someone creating a character, having them being invited to Smash Bros., and being like "Nah."
 

Exiliify

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
102
I think most game developers would welcome their character's inclusion into Smash. Like, I have a hard time imagining someone creating a character, having them being invited to Smash Bros., and being like "Nah."
I am pretty sure Skullgirls won't happen because the creator doesn't want their characters being made in MUGEN. Though kind of like Skullgirls, FeelsBadMan
 
Last edited:

Sc_Ev0lution

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 22, 2016
Messages
22
I think most game developers would welcome their character's inclusion into Smash. Like, I have a hard time imagining someone creating a character, having them being invited to Smash Bros., and being like "Nah."
I think healthy debate can be had as to how open ZUN would be to lending his characters to smash. On the one hand ZUN has traditionally not wanted to associate with the more mainstream games industry, he partly started Touhou to get away from that after all, and Smash in some ways feels like the epitome of that. On the other, ZUN has been increasingly lax with Touhou in recent years, even more than it has always been, from official games on Steam, PS4, and soon Switch, to Touhou characters cameoing in Taiko Drum Master on 3ds alongside Kirby, and most recently Cannonball; ZUN used to be very against the idea of a Touhou gacha, but obviously he changed his mind. Ultimately, I think ZUN would give the go ahead, but I don't blame anyone for thinking he wouldn't.
 

Exiliify

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
102
I think healthy debate can be had as to how open ZUN would be to lending his characters to smash. On the one hand ZUN has traditionally not wanted to associate with the more mainstream games industry, he partly started Touhou to get away from that after all, and Smash in some ways feels like the epitome of that. On the other, ZUN has been increasingly lax with Touhou in recent years, even more than it has always been, from official games on Steam, PS4, and soon Switch, to Touhou characters cameoing in Taiko Drum Master on 3ds alongside Kirby, and most recently Cannonball; ZUN used to be very against the idea of a Touhou gacha, but obviously he changed his mind. Ultimately, I think ZUN would give the go ahead, but I don't blame anyone for thinking he wouldn't.
I still think the one thing he will not allow is an official anime.
 

Ayumi Tachibana

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
215
Ah, you just meant some character in general. But where did you hear that another character got "NO" in the first place?

From Sakurai's book where he is talking about Bayonetta.
Bayonetta was the first pick of the ballot for Sm4sh DLC among the realizable characters.
But above her, there were characters such as smash veterans like Snake and others already tried negotiating but got rejected.
 
Last edited:

Neosonic97

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
190
Ah, you just meant some character in general. But where did you hear that another character got "NO" in the first place?
My guess? Bayonetta's announcement. Bayo was considered the most popular 'realizable' pick, meaning that there were characters who were rated higher than her on the ballot, but weren't considered possible.
 
Last edited:

Thatchner

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
17

From Sakurai's book where he is talking about Bayonetta.
Bayonetta was the first pick of the ballot for Sm4sh DLC among the realizable characters.
But above her, there were characters such as smash veterans like Snake and others already tried negotiating but got rejected.
Now that's interesting! I've never heard of this before. Then it really makes one wonder what other characters could have gotten rejected. Sadly, I don't think that's something that we'll know, unless it gets leaked somehow.
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
1,688
I don't think that the presence (or lack thereof) of mainline Touhou games readily accessible to Westerners on Nintendo consoles has much bearing on Reimu's potential for inclusion, honestly. She'll already live or die by her popularity in Japan, and inclusions such as Joker and Banjo evidence the fact that Sakurai isn't particularly concerned about including only characters with strong cross-promotion potential. With that said, it'd be very funny if her (hypothetical) reveal was built around a reveal of the official AoCF for Switch trailer. Maybe it runs like a normal trailer for a minute and a half, and then Palutena shows up in sprite form at the end? Could be funny.
 

RetrogamerMax

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 3, 2018
Messages
3,432
Location
Houston, Texas
NNID
RetrogamerMax2
The only characters I can probably think of that did better in the Smash Ballot then Snake, Bayonetta, Ridley, K. Rool, Banjo & Kazooie, Castlevania, and the rest of the returning veterans is Sora and probably Goku.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
1,751
Quick question, it's something that just came to mind, but what games actively have soundtrack names pop in at the start of a stage? I remember my first thought upon seeing it in Brawl was "Oh Neat, kinda like Touhou". Now, I'm not trying to say that Touhou out and out inspired it since it does seem rather generic a thing to do, but to my knowledge, Only Smash, Touhou and Rhythm games are the only games that really do such a practice.
 

Tabbender

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 1, 2019
Messages
15
This is an interesting point and, to be honest, I think it kind of hurts Reimu's chances. Say Reimu is added, people think she looks really cool, but there's no real way to actually support the series (in the west) outside of a few fan games. If some of the original games got an eShop release proper like the Neo Geo arcade classics, I think Reimu would be in business.
We already have official Touhou games on Steam, and ZUN doesn't care that much about people supporting the series. They can just crack the games, which is very easy to do.
 
Joined
May 2, 2015
Messages
40
Location
Germany
NNID
PurpleXCompleX
Switch FC
SW 3371 1386 0430
Like Tabbender said about ZUN not caring much about people supporting the series,
ZUN doesnt really make games for money (unlike other companies). He does all of this just for fun because he likes creating games.
Even claiming that "even if all the fans were suddenly gone, he would still keep going"

Also Touhou Cannonball, the mobile fangame by Quatro A (Aniplex) is out in Japan in case it hasnt been mentioned yet.

Oh yeah also Touhou 17.5 has been revealed. A beta will be at this years Autumn Reitaisai (October 6th)
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
1,688
Neat! And huh, it's a platformer, apparently? Didn't see that one coming. Pretty neat, though! Guess that means the next fighter's a ways out, which is fine by me, since AoCF is pretty great.
 

Sysreq

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2018
Messages
221
Location
The Wired
We already have official Touhou games on Steam, and ZUN doesn't care that much about people supporting the series. They can just crack the games, which is very easy to do.
It would still feel a little weird. Sakurai would have to pull another "Play this game on Xbox" except say "You can play her games on Steam or PC" *wink wink*
 

NobleClamtasm

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 1, 2013
Messages
266
Oh yeah also Touhou 17.5 has been revealed. A beta will be at this years Autumn Reitaisai (October 6th)
Awesome news! This is actually our first official 2D platformer, which is interesting. It seems like ZUN is tapping to the more casual-friendly audience, which is fine by me. If this were to get a Switch port, it can serve as the perfect introduction to Touhou for many people.
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
1,688
It would still feel a little weird. Sakurai would have to pull another "Play this game on Xbox" except say "You can play her games on Steam or PC" *wink wink*
If he did it once already, why not twice, right? People tend to attach a little too much importance to the arbitrary inclusion rules whipped up by the fanbase. At the end of the day, Sakurai's gonna do whatever he wants without any regard for the restrictions people here have come up with. You could technically support Joker on Nintendo consoles via purchasing PQ2, but I very much so doubt if more than a handful of people did that. Plus, Antimony of Common Flowers is officially coming to the Switch, so it's a non-issue either way.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
8
Mainline Touhou platformer, huh? That's new, but pretty cool! It's neat to see ZUN take this direction. I hope we can see more of these down the line, the only platformer I recall playing was MegaMari, but alas, that was more of a fangame than mainline.
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
1,688
Mainline Touhou platformer, huh? That's new, but pretty cool! It's neat to see ZUN take this direction. I hope we can see more of these down the line, the only platformer I recall playing was MegaMari, but alas, that was more of a fangame than mainline.
Yeah! The more I think about it, the more this seems like a fantastic idea. Touhou could really use a mainline game that's easily accessible for recommendation purposes (think like if Luna Nights was mainline), and a platformer is just the ticket.
 

Prince777

Triforce of Wisdom
Premium
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
40
Location
Palmdale, California
NNID
songokuthegreat
Switch FC
SW-3912-2310-8722
I think most game developers would welcome their character's inclusion into Smash. Like, I have a hard time imagining someone creating a character, having them being invited to Smash Bros., and being like "Nah."
I was thinking the same thing to myself. If proposed by Nintendo or Sakurai, why would a developer pass up the opportunity to include their character in one of the biggest official cross overs of all time? They have all to gain and seemingly nothing to lose what so ever. They would be introducing their IP's to greater audiences, satisfy many of their fans, and profit massively. Why would any company (Square Enix or Sony) even be hesitant or stubborn about the idea? Makes no sense to me.
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
9,217
Location
Somewhere
Saw some gameplay of 17.5. Looks really fun.

Was surprised on all the action game combat elements in it since I only just looked at it now. But it's pretty cool.
 
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
1,688
Yeah, the demo looks neat! It's pretty funny to see everyone spinning around like Sonic. I particularly like how the aesthetic leans into a traditional Japanese brush stroke style a bit; the effect is quite striking. I'm more convinced than ever that this should be a great entry in the mainline, and wouldn't mind at all if Tasofro ends up doing some more games along these lines before the next fighter. Touhou definitely needs more accessible canon games! With that said, I will be a little bummed if Marisa isn't playable! Hopefully she has her own route.

Oh, and not that Smash roster polls mean anything at all, but it looks like Reimu might have placed #6 in this one? The post-Sans surge in discussion in enfranchised communities seems pretty real. We must all be coming out of the woodwork now that a chance seems to actually exist.
https://twitter.com/New_WabiSabi/status/1180633531967397888
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
1,688
Here's what seems to be a preliminary breakdown of the poll results. I'll admit I'm quite surprised to see Reimu that high, but I imagine her requests are only likely to go up. Of course, as stated, these polls mean absolutely nothing, but I wouldn't have expected to see her there even among the ultra-enfranchised community.

IMG_20191006_133814.jpg


Speaking of 17.5, that spinning move would be perfect for a Nair.
Hah, definitely.
 

Neosonic97

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 18, 2018
Messages
190
Here's what seems to be a preliminary breakdown of the poll results. I'll admit I'm quite surprised to see Reimu that high, but I imagine her requests are only likely to go up. Of course, as stated, these polls mean absolutely nothing, but I wouldn't have expected to see her there even among the ultra-enfranchised community.
What surprises me the most about this is the fact that she beat out several big names: Note how she beat out Crash, Rayman, Phoenix Wright, Bandana Dee, Lloyd Irving and Doomguy.
 
Top