ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
THis is smashboards, I mean look at what happened with me and thinkaman.seriously people, ignore the first 1/4 of my post and instead the actual message its sending -____-
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THis is smashboards, I mean look at what happened with me and thinkaman.seriously people, ignore the first 1/4 of my post and instead the actual message its sending -____-
For some reason, you like to post **** that has been refuted, **** that's wrong, and **** that doesn't matter pretty often.<stuff>
Can we just stop comparing MK to Street Fighter characters?
what was his reasoning?
They're both being applied to the same ban criteria, so it's a valid comparison. They're being compared in two things which they can be logically compared in, match-up dominance and tournament dominance.(I don't play street fighter) is this guy (Akuma) really being compared to metaknight?
......
i hate smashboards
This isn't Super Turbo Akuma, this is HD remix Akuma.You're actually comparing Meta Knight to Akuma?
Just when I thought pro-ban couldn't get any more illogical.
*fixedHD Akuma can do that?
I thought it was only SF2 Super Turbo* Akuma.
☆ You already know that 71% of the time that people will just look at a post and just reply when a few words get their attention like I were to say that Meta Knight shouldn't be ban because it's too soon and have a few words after it. But the mindset of some people will just say that I just want Meta Knight ban because it's too soon and nothing further of what I typed. ☆seriously people, ignore the first 1/4 of my post -____-
Then your post didn't even make any sense."I **** MK again"
Pierce is awesome, but his reliance on personal experience rapidly changes his opinion one way or another.
@everyone, stop saying I was comparing MK to Akuma. I was comparing one smart community to this one. read the bulk of my post.
not quiteI think people are putting too much emphasis on whether or not MK dominates tournaments.
HD Akuma wasn't dominating ****, yet they banned him. They had no real evidence of his tournament dominance, it was out of fear because they looked at his tools and knew exactly what to expect. This logic is widely lacking in the Smash community.
Well I'll leave all of that for someone else to go through with.They're both being applied to the same ban criteria, so it's a valid comparison. They're being compared in two things which they can be logically compared in, match-up dominance and tournament dominance.
I suppose SWF will never wreak of intelligence like other fighting game communities do :/THis is smashboards, I mean look at what happened with me and thinkaman.
Holy **** dude.Then your post didn't even make any sense.
You were saying that the SF community was smart in banning Akuma and that the same logic should apply to the Smash community in regards to Meta Knight. I said that was bull**** and you replied with.....your post had nothing to do with Akuma? WTF?
I can totally not believe you just compared Akuma to MK.Holy **** dude.
How can you not comprehend this? Take out the two sentences I said about AKUMA and read it.
"People need to go and look back at the basics, not just meta's crazy stuff.
Look at his range compared to execution speed. He outranges characters such as Marth, but has the attack speed of someone who would lack a weapon. That's an imbalance right there. You shouldn't be attacking within 3 frames while still outranging the majority of the cast. That's just dumb.
His sword can't clash, thus having REAL priority. You can't just stick something out against this guy because he can hit your hand/leg etc if you do. The concept of zoning him kinda goes out the window right there.
The list goes on. He has too many options in many scenarios. Some character's just aren't meant to be competitive. I don't see how some people in this community can't realize this."
Youre not really debunking what hes saying your basically saying play smarter. he didnt say that was all that matters ether but what he say does hold significance.There are many characters fast enough to get in MK's face and hit him with quick enough moves that they can go blow for blow, priority is not the only thing that matters, look at Wario. Having the ability to punish a lot of things is fine, just don't be an idiot when going up against it. Doesn't make ban with that alone.
This is the smash community after all.Its funny how many times Steel said to ignore the first part. lol
You've said nothing that the pro-ban hasn't said from the dawn of time. Your argument here is basically an appeal to emotion built on top of a lot of whining about how MK is too good.Holy **** dude.
How can you not comprehend this? Take out the two sentences I said about Akuma and read it.
"People need to go and look back at the basics, not just meta's crazy stuff.
Look at his range compared to execution speed. He outranges characters such as Marth, but has the attack speed of someone who would lack a weapon. That's an imbalance right there. You shouldn't be attacking within 3 frames while still outranging the majority of the cast. That's just dumb.
His sword can't clash, thus having REAL priority. You can't just stick something out against this guy because he can hit your hand/leg etc if you do. The concept of zoning him kinda goes out the window right there.
The list goes on. He has too many options in many scenarios. Some character's just aren't meant to be competitive. I don't see how some people in this community can't realize this."
Good thing he caught himself too, because he completely shuts down his entire argument in the space of one post.Its funny how many times Steel said to ignore the first part. lol
...I can totally not believe you just compared Akuma to MK.
You are right. And?Youre not really debunking what hes saying your basically saying play smarter
Not really, priority allows you to wall opponents with hitboxes, preventing you from ever getting in. This is an aspect of zoning.You are right. And?
If you lose to any character because their moves come out faster and have larger hit boxes when you atack at the same time they do, you are doing it wrong because you are probably attacking at the wrong time. Good players don't lose to priority alone, because they know how to handle it.
Sigh.........You are right. And?
If you lose to any character because their moves come out faster and have larger hit boxes when you atack at the same time they do, you are doing it wrong because you are probably attacking at the wrong time. Good players don't lose to priority alone, because they know how to handle it.
Except that MK does not place as high or as often as everyone says he does. Does anyone care to debate this point? We have no shortage of data available, it's quite easy to prove, and has been done many times.Good lord. He's not pro-ban; he's replying to Thinkaman's post, which erroneously stated that MK did not place as high and as often as everybody said he did.
Nice try, but this has nothing to do with anything.Don't forget the part where Thinkaman apparently believes Brawl and Melee have the same roster size.
Please, enlighten us all to my mathematical errors.Thinkaman's original post was bad math.
Yes, because counters are a unique concept to Brawl, and no fighting game has ever had strong counters in its cast before, especially Melee.But even when you corrected it you completely ignored several posts that addressed the strange counterpick mechanic Brawl has.
So saying Brawl has a wider range of characters that are able to be used in tournaments when compared with Melee still means next to nothing when you consider the large amount of hard and soft counters that make up the entire roster.
Listen.Too busy posting a wall of text to catch the clue train.
Sorry, we were too busy actually beating Meta Knights. But I'll address your point anyway.People need to go and look back at the basics, not just meta's crazy stuff.
Look at his range compared to execution speed. He outranges characters such as Marth, but has the attack speed of someone who would lack a weapon. That's an imbalance right there. You shouldn't be attacking within 3 frames while still outranging the majority of the cast. That's just dumb.
His sword can't clash, thus having REAL priority. You can't just stick something out against this guy because he can hit your hand/leg etc if you do. The concept of zoning him kinda goes out the window right there.
By all means, go on. Do share these mythical options and scenarios that put MK so far above the rest of the cast!The list goes on. He has too many options in many scenarios.
Which has to do with Meta Knight........ how?brawl has 35 characters.
melee has 25 characters.
Um, never?How many times have you played a tournament match whenever someone loses the first round with their favorite character and plays MK throughout the rest of the set? It gets old.
MK does not have a 100% safe jump in, and with alert DI he doesn't combo people completely beyond what other characters are similarly capable of. It's cool we both see it's a fundamental disagreement here. If you think MK is so pervasively good that he has manifold options that are godlike compared to everybody else in terms of damage and their safeness from prediction and optimal reaction, which means everything in levels of play that aren't garbage, then I have nothing else to say to you.Look if the answer was that simple we wouldnt be here would we. Also he didnt say that is all that matters did he. You could say your answer to anyone in any fighting game facing any character. Even the banned ones. By your standards no character should be banned. Well In short words.....your wrong. You are trying to debunk a entire history of fighting game standards with a psuedo answer. Yes play smart is important but knowing the interior contingensies of the game is important too.
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You seem to be failing to understand WHY Captain Falcon is pathetic.Oh please dude Captain Falcon? Even if he gets in he does 12% if he's lucky then degrades one of his only kill moves, zoning doesn't ruin Falcon Falcon ruins himself. You don't need gdlk priority if you outmaneuver the other guy to the point where you're in position to put a legitimate hurt on him, which is what Wario is all about. You probably need to be a somewhat good enough character to pressure shields and be hard to punish to do this, and metaknight won't make it easy, but saying it's not doable is saying real play doesn't happen.
That, and his lack of means to pressure, inflict damage, kill at reasonable percents without resorting to randomsmashandpray or putting himself at a terribly punishable position afterward like say the knee does, and his generally terrible characteristic in everything from grab range to throws to shield options to how easy he is to string random BS on to recovery.You seem to be failing to understand WHY Captain Falcon is pathetic.
It's priority he lacks any descent semblance of priority, therefore ANYBODY can zone him to death, well at least pretty much anybody.
Oh, I can give tons of match-up based examples, but captain Falcon is the universal priority fail in this game, and that's why he's terrible
All of which he'd have if he had reasonable priority on some of his moves.That, and his lack of means to pressure, inflict damage, kill at reasonable percents without resorting to randomsmashandpray or putting himself at a terribly punishable position afterward like say the knee does, and his generally terrible characteristic in everything from grab range to throws to shield options to how easy he is to string random BS on to recovery.
Because Wario has other attributes that make him work? Like amazing aerial mobility?Again, Wario. If I attack at the same time as anybody else is, short of baiting with bite or timing armor frames with fsmash or whatev, I am doing it wrong because I can be **************** grabbed out of dair for god's sake, that doesn't make it a move that isn't amazing. I am still a good character because I have terrific pressure, damage racking power, killing power and general attributes.
MK does not have a 100% safe jump in, and with alert DI he doesn't combo people completely beyond what other characters are similarly capable of. It's cool we both see it's a fundamental disagreement here. If you think MK is so pervasively good that he has manifold options that are godlike compared to everybody else in terms of damage and their safeness from prediction and optimal reaction, which means everything in levels of play that aren't garbage, then I have nothing else to say to you.
You can't just say that. Stop putting MK on this pedestal on Mt. Olympus, you're not fooling anyone. We've all played MK. We've all beaten MKs. We know how much of an advantage he really has, for better or worse, in most of his matchups.Yes to a majority of the cast his options are godlike.
Never denied it, because the people who here things like it take it the wrong way entirely when it is in fact the answer at the end of the dayYour still giving that play smarter jazz
seriouslydudewow, read in contextAlso metatknight isnt akuma i never said he was..... I even said that the games were different a couple posts ago.
You can't just say that. Stop putting MK on this pedestal on Mt. Olympus, you're not fooling anyone. We've all played MK. We've all beaten MKs. We know how much of an advantage he really has, for better or worse, in most of his matchups.
Exaggeration does not change the reality of tourney results.
Ok... So...Steel2nd said:@inui
I think neo is a stronger player than all of them, either that or he knows the match far better than they do. he also recently beat omni. doesn't really change my opinion
Apex results.Successor of Raphael said:what was his reasoning?
Dark Peach took a risk and got punished for it.P. O. F. said:You know....I never thought about that. I can't remember the last time I "clanked" with one of Meta Knights moves. I was talking with Dark Pch last night and he lost to a Meta Knight that he felt he should not have lost to (a tourney in CT....bi weekly.) He was playing Unknown Force (A great player nonetheless) but I personally, think and know hes just a better overall player than Unknown. Now, I'm not saying Unknown did not earn his victory or anything of the sort but i'd stake my life on it had he used any other character, he would have been *****. Dark Pch was actually WINNING the match but went off stage and mk did some typical dair crap and killed him. The point is this: Meta Knight is not a PERFECT character but the fact is that all it takes is a simple gimp...and you die. F that.
Ok, Emblem Lord. Go play those games, then.Steel2nd said:I suppose SWF will never wreak of intelligence like other fighting game communities do :/
He doesn't. I was goign to leave the burden of proof on you, but heck, I'm bored.OMG.....You are acting like rehab. You are simply saying play smarter. I know this. By the way you arent saying he doesnt have a astronomical amount of options. Who am i trying to fool.
I really don't care, this isn't kickball teams. Someone says something wrong, I'm going to correct them. If someone insists on a wrong point while not having any background to give it validity at all, I'm going to point that out.Also....... dammit thinkman bringing adambrodus playing skill into context has no place in this debate. Dont try to hit below the belt. HES NOT EVEN PRO BAN.
By the way I'm not proban ether. Im on the fence.
Hey crash, you're a cool guy and should know better.A character with range and priority on their moves is given far more opportunities to read and punish their opponents. Because, when they predict correctly which move an opponent will use, they have the option to throw out a rangier/higher priority move. Options.
Thats the problem with falcon, and thats the problem with MK. options.
I'd also just like to throw in, MK is completely broken. What other game, when faced with a broken character, creates goofy rules to try to balance that character instead of just banning it. (idc, planking)