Roy_R
Smash Apprentice
Look at my signature
:ouch:
EDIT: signature is gone! some other time then
:ouch:
EDIT: signature is gone! some other time then
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42.^^^^^^^^^^
I don't know where these people get these numbers from anyway.
It's like they say 50:50 can go either way, and then 55 and 60 are disadvantaged... but the NUMBERS are close so it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what the numbers represent, the numbers themselves are close! You can beat that matchup!
Nothing else exists until you get to 70:30 matchups and people say "ROFL more like 60:40". Thne there are 90:10 and 100:0 matchups which are the exact same thing.
People with numbers make me full of rage.
You need to stop and think about what you say for a second.Yeah, screw listening to people that actually play the game and the characters we're talking about. Let's listen to Yuna (who?) and Emblem Lord, who doesn't play.
A major part of it is the thread.We had this issue before. The main problem with the D3 vs Marth match-up is not that Marth has the disadvantage. Nobody ever said so, neither EL nor OS, Atomsk or me...the thing is that many people "consider" a 55/45 to be "even". It's by no means "****" but saying it's even is kinda absurd since 5/5 is even...if somebody has the advantage in a match-up how can it be even?
Personally, I think 6/4 D3s favour is correct though and since top Marths (Neo, Hrnut) and top D3s (atomsk) agree... it confirms my thoughts on this match-up.
@Steel
I always thought you disagree with 6/4? IIRC you were always on the "45/55" side? When did you change your mind?
50/50 is perfectly neutral/even. 55-45 is even/neutral. But if you wanna anal, then a very slight advantage/disadvantage. But that's just up to preference.he thing is that many people "consider" a 55/45 to be "even". It's by no means "****" but saying it's even is kinda absurd since 5/5 is even...if somebody has the advantage in a match-up how can it be even?
if we did a job together and the pay was 100 dollars so i said even split and gave you 45 would you say that its even?50/50 is perfectly neutral/even. 55-45 is even/neutral. But if you wanna anal, then a very slight advantage/disadvantage. But that's just up to preference.
In the world of Competitive gaming, 55-45 is often considered "neutral". Maybe "even" is the wrong word to use here. "Neutral" is perfectly acceptable. I was wrong in using the word "even".if we did a job together and the pay was 100 dollars so i said even split and gave you 45 would you say that its even?
Did you answer my question?In the world of Competitive gaming, 55-45 is often considered "neutral".
Did I or did I not say that I was wrong in using the word "even" just now? I never use the word "even" to describe 55-45, I always use "neutral". A slip of the mind randomly have me suddenly use "even" for a few days. That was wrong.Did you answer my question?
I've never claimed to be a Marth expert or an expert on all match-ups in the entire game. If it's 60-40, then it's no longer "Neutral" to me (Neutral, to me (and it's just a preference) extends from 50-50 to 55-45).okay then, but i personally think its 6-4
i like the way your sounding, i'm glad you're not another stubborn ****** on smashboards, well yeah on a high level of play, D3 wins alot, however marth can possibly win if he plays extra careful/gay and campyI've never claimed to be a Marth expert or an expert on all match-ups in the entire game. If it's 60-40, then it's no longer "Neutral" to me (Neutral, to me (and it's just a preference) extends from 50-50 to 55-45).
What kind of a stupid post #1337 is this?i like the way your sounding, i'm glad you're not another stubborn ****** on smashboards, well yeah on a high level of play, D3 wins alot, however marth can possibly win if he plays extra careful/gay and campy
But then we would be left with this.I think every character except metaknight should be banned.
I'm with Overswarm on this. Trying to justify numbers as a means to represent a match up is more arbitrary than attempting to argue who in fact has an advantage, and therefor is a waste of time.People with numbers make me full of rage.
Yes, but at least then we'd be able to shut up those twits yapping about banning a jillion things since "skill" to be the most deciding factor.But then we would be left with this.
i'll have to disagree. The number ratios provide the most accurate method of determining the extent to whch a character has an advantage. Otherwise, no one would agree to how much of an advantage, they would say he has an advantage but what exactly?I'm with Overswarm on this. Trying to justify numbers as a means to represent a match up is more arbitrary than attempting to argue who in fact has an advantage, and therefor is a waste of time.
By Marth standards, anyway.Dedede vs. Marth is an extremely gay matchup for marth.
a lot of people would already disagree with what are prominent match up ratio's, it does help to give a rough idea of what you think the extent of advantage is but the more specific you get the more opinionated it all is.i'll have to disagree. The number ratios provide the most accurate method of determining the extent to whch a character has an advantage. Otherwise, no one would agree to how much of an advantage, they would say he has an advantage but what exactly?
Because there's a noticable difference between, "this character performs a tiny bit better then this character in this match-up, the amortized win rate should be very close to 50%", and "this character should win well over two thirds of the amortized matches between the two", and "this character should win every match-up where the player isn't seriously impared, as in on acid, totally drunk, or dead, when these two characters face each other".So why are we overly concerned with what the number ratios are, or what they're supposed to represent, if it is already agreed upon as to how well each character performs?
It sounds like "neutral" "slight disadvantage" "disadvantaged" "soft countered" and "hard countered" would be enough. When the numbers vary so much by interpretation (Some people toss things around like "No bad matchups" because the worst someone has is 60:40, others consider that a bad matchup. Same issues with 55:45, some call it even while others call it slight disadvantage -- which is where it should go given the list of labels I included, because it is simply a slight disadvantage. The biggest problem with the numbers is that nobody can quite agree what they represent when they use other terms along with the numbers.)Because there's a noticable difference between, "this character performs a tiny bit better then this character in this match-up, the amortized win rate should be very close to 50%", and "this character should win well over two thirds of the amortized matches between the two", and "this character should win every match-up where the player isn't seriously impared, as in on acid, totally drunk, or dead, when these two characters face each other".
Those ARE differences in performance, they are substantive, and they need some sort of quantification because THAT allows people to make informed character decisions.
In all honesty, people are never going to shut up, there will always be opposition for everything, we are only human after all. If it truly required that much to "shut people up", then the game itself would not be worth playing. Yes, it is true that skill would be the ultimate deciding factor if the game were changed in that way, but the repetition would eventually become too overwhelming for most to handle, resulting in very few people playing the game anyway. A vicious cycle, I know.Yes, but at least then we'd be able to shut up those twits yapping about banning a jillion things since "skill" to be the most deciding factor.
With only Meta Knight in the game, it will truly be about who is the most skilled player, character choice no longer playing any part in the equation.
soft counter would be like MK > yoshi 45:55heavy disadvantage: Cap Falcon and most of the cast
soft counter: can't think of good example
Switch your soft and heavy.
A heavy disadvantage implies it being more than something that is soft.
No its the other way around.that's like saying a B- is lower than a C+, because plus implies greater. I explain what I me by disadvantage, as opposed to counter ^_^
Yeah, I was just pointing out another thing that would need addressing with it that I hadn't seen mentioned yet.@Salabob, that's why I think we should have a unified guideline (made by SBR or something)
Its more of an issue in that when I hear soft and then counter, the soft preceding it automatically makes me think of light. So whenI see something above it that says heavy, it gets rather confusing. @_@@Shadow. No. Even, disadvantage, counter, unwinnable are like a, b, c, d, f. Heavy, light, and "_" are like the +, -, and base.
So because a soft counter is a counter, it doesn't matter that it's after heavy disadvantage, because under my (as explained below), it being in a counter class means that it's automatically tougher than disadvantage.
I don't see your confusion.