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uh, he's an extremely fun character to play, this coming from someone who plays several other characters at a better level than him and voted for the ban, just because he's ban worthy doesn't mean he deserves the hate, at least he's not one of the lamers that depends almost totally on camping.
Uh, hi? It's not hard.
Nah, it's just my favourite point to make. It's also hilarious when people say MK doesn't lose the match-up and it's funny when people do so because they're usually randoms and then top players like me, Mew2King, Atomsk, and NinjaLink can come in and say otherwise and get ignored despite being billions of times better and more educated on Brawl.
Ugh.
Yeah, it's not hard to powershield Peach and ZSS's jabs and MK's u-air. The thing is, the motion of the characters, flow of the match, and the known strategies you know are coming will let you know that the move is coming, so you can block it easily.
wut
Probably because you act as if your word>everyne else's when this is not true. You rarely support your arguments, you rarely say anything that is actually applicable.
Insult you? Nay, I am poking fun at you for what you did to yourself.
Which is why at the highest levels, we also see MK trumping Snake repeatedly.
WOMG If u prfct cmp wih Olimr and snack u'll beet meatknight!
translation: inui gives Snake blowsjobs like Hideo gave sakurai.
3 frame moves? yeah. Unless yu predicted it, you're not going to powershield it consistently.
I removed you cause you're not as god as M2K.
Captain obvious is obvious.
Stupid statement is stupid.
Yet that isn't what anyone cares about. We regard the character not the player as part of the debate.
translation: if you predict really well you can powershield ANYTHING.
I am going to make it big and it will be the last time I say it Vids or it didnt happen
If you're quoting me, it obviously is, because that is what I was addressing, and you're responding to it.
Congrats, you've managed to state (what you believe to be) "what", now please address the "how". You're really making no sense at all.
Meta Knight will never have any reason to remove the need for secondaries unless he somehow obtained a 7:3 matchup advantage on the entire cast. Secondaries are meant to deal with bad match ups, or provide beneficial match ups. Even assuming Meta Knight didn't have bad match ups, he isn't the best character to use in every circumstance, both for stages as well as opposing characters.
There have been no consistent match up ratios regarding Meta Knight versus Snake from a significant group of credible smashers at all. Everyone has their own minds made up, and very few people can agree appropriately.
Again, I don't know why you're stating the obvious. No one with a brain is going to disagree on these particular points.
You just went ahead and assumed right off the bat that Snake is his one possible disadvantage, and thus you're argument is valid. Tell me, why is it that Snake is the only possible match up disadvantage in your argument? Why not Falco? Why not Diddy Kong? If Meta Knight only had one disadvantage, there is a slight possibility you might have an argument. Unless you claim that you are knowledgeable enough to know who does and doesn't have an edge against Meta Knight over everyone else, which you clearly are not, you have no grounds at all on this. Snake isn't the only possibility, nor is he generally accepted as the only possibility.
Snake wins more than he loses at the highest levels. By "highest levels" I mean known top players, such as Atlantic North players, most notably MD/VA, and not random tournament winner #44 from Oklahoma that gets his results posted.
Running away and throwing Pikmin forever and camping grabs is extremely easy to do. Doing anything both frame-perfectly and pixel-perfectly isn't humanly possible. Biiiiiiiiig difference that you refuse to see here.
If by "refuted" you mean "random players have posted incorrect things to say that MK wins" then okay.
I do not find punishing MK to be hard at all and I've yet to meet a top player that thinks it's too hard. Basic Sausage, a Dedede player from NY, thinks punishing MK is easy despite the match being against his character.
So if I say "Okay we're talking about rainbow unicorns" and then launch into a discussion about horses, you responding to me would mean we were talking about rainbow unicorns?
There are major differences. First, MK does not require 7:3 to break the CP system and not require a secondary -- you can use him anytime you're worried about being CP'ed and have at worst a 55:45 against you, and then you can pick a stage you're good at with him for the second round if you lose the first (And then get a 55:45 worst case against you for the last). So just by having at worst an almost-neutral against him, MK can in fact remove the need for a secondary. Will you do better if you CP your opponent on that second round if you lose the first? Sure, unless they pick MK -- then you're pretty much as well off using MK yourself (Or can get a whopping 55:45 against them, with a character that you've spent less time practicing as...).
Because that's why he breaks the CP system, a point which you've simply ignored in all your disproving of the claim.
Because none of these other possibilities have proven true in tournament results, or even really looked likely based on them. Like Diddy Kong being used with NL as an example...NL says he beats MK with all the characters he uses, including a couple who are recognized as solidly disadvantaged against him. This means that NL winning with Diddy isn't Diddy > MK, it's NL > MK.
I can see that. One of my crew members plays Lucario and when he DIs well it's like 'wtf?'
I'm saying it's not much of a problem in the first place, especially in Metaknight's case.
But Fox had the same advantages as MK in terms of match-ups and stages and nobody cried.
I'm doing the opposite for some reason o_O I somewhat favor a ban because MK will only become more popular and totally inundate everything, but he's not the broken, undefeatable monster people try to make him out to be, the match is very winnable for a decent number of characters. bad arguments are bad arguments regardless of whether or not they support my agenda(although I've admitted to being near neutral)
According to you? Who are you again?
There are plenty of credible people on both the anti and pro ban side that consistently disagree on this account. You're wrong.
So does King Dedede. What's your point?
Really? So me telling you that Marths Fair beats Meta Knights fair is false information because you disagree with me, even though it is clearly the truth? How about Falcos Nair going through Glide Attack?
Huh? I don't even understand this post at all. I can't tell who you're insulting and if you're pro-ban or anti-ban.
Who countered Sheik worse than 55:45?But Fox had the same advantages as MK in terms of match-ups and stages and nobody cried.
I think Sheik loses to both Fox and Falco by that much or more(depending on stages) and I think Sheik loses to Ice Climbers, but that's debatable. DK can also do some nasty stuff to Sheik. She also was bottom tier in terms of recovery options.
How can you possibly vote anti-ban and then say this? Do you actually believe that MK has no weaknesses?
Really? So why is it you don't powershield EVERYTHING?
key word is exploitable weaknesses smart one.
-Being perfect isn't humanly possibly.
Meta Knight's low weight is exploitable. Tornado and shuttle loop are also extremely punishable. Basic Sausage explained a lot of things about punishing MK already and I don't feel like repeating all of it.
I was referring to the Counter Picking system, in which the match up ratios are relevant.
Again, this all comes down to you assume he only has a 55:45 match up in the worse scenario. You're making assumptions to best suit your argument.
It still doesn't matter. You are arguing that there is no reason to pick anyone other than Meta Knight. Fox was statistically the best, both in terms of character ability and match ups. Whether or not Marth or Sheik or Falco could compete in this respect isn't the point, they're inferior, meaning you still have no reason to pick anyone other than Fox. I could sit here and argue all day about how x character is perfectly capable of competing with Meta Knight.
Meta Knight being the most CP resistant character doesn't mean he breaks it. If Meta Knight were gone, Marth would clearly be the character with the most CP resistances. He still wouldn't break the CP system though, because he has disadvantages. Meta Knight does too. You're just not in a position to agree with that, so you assume he does break the system based on that, and that alone.
Do you know NinjaLink? Do you know the players that he beats who use Meta Knight, and how good they are in comparison to him? Do you know what stages they played on, or exactly what characters he used to win? No. You're going by word of mouth. Nice evidence you have there.
Please tell me what the current results are. Who exactly is the credible source you are getting these results from? Link me to these credible sources of yours so I can start correcting, because I would like to see where these results are coming from.
He's a safe choice based on your assumption that he has no disadvantages. Key word here is your "assumption". I
Rainbow unicorns.
You're the one making assumptions, I'm going off the current known facts. And that's really all it comes down to for the rest of your points -- I'm basing my arguments off the actual results and how things are happening, you're basing yours off of peoples' opinions and your own beliefs. This is just like when you declared so confidently that Peach was bad on Jungle Japes and you'd stick with that opinion, even after multiple people explained why you were wrong (Including one video of how annoying it was to finish off a Peach on that level). You're mixing your own beliefs into your argument and trying to claim them as facts.
M2K believes Sheik is the best character in Melee. Fox also took more technical skill to get up to that level than the others -- so if you lacked that, you were in fact better off with a different character. MK does not require more technical ability to raise him above the other characters. In fact, to even come close to even against him many of them must have better technical ability. Fox fails as a direct comparison to MK.
I'm going by NinjaLink's own words. Who else should I be putting priority for quoting about his performance than himself?
Tournament results. Go look through all the results and find me multiple examples where all these characters that you claim might be advantaged vs. MK actually are taking down multiple MKs to claim the top position. If they only beat one it's nice but not really proof of it -- an advantage should be allowing them to defeat multiple MKs to claim that top spot. Oh, I can link you to the NinjaLink thing from a credible source, here...
Tell me, where can I find a more credible source to refer to NL from than this? He hasn't said anything retracting it since he posted this either.
And exactly how does this prove that he has no disadvantaged match ups?
And exactly how have you proved that MK does in fact have disadvantaged match- ups?And exactly how does this prove that he has no disadvantaged match ups?
Marth was clearly the most dominant character in melee in terms of results. Even against Falco, who was the second most dominant character, he won significantly more tournaments. He was still not widely agreed to be better than Fox, or to have less disadvantages than Fox.
Tournament results do not determine anything but tournament results. Congratulations on looking like an idiot though.
Then why do you often bring up the perfect camp argument. I ahve heard yu say if Olimar camps perfectly MK can't do anything.
there is a reason we don't go around using throws and command throws all the time dude.
Then let me rectify my error. We would powershield things that should be powershielded and not those that shouldn't .
Videos please?
basic sausage is nt here to make any statements. Thats just word of mouth.
If I didn't see it, it didn't happen.
Wrong. I put alot of time correcting the errors made on the anti ban side. I have corrected those on the pro ban side when they made an error unless someone was already preoccupied with doing so. (usually)
Probably because they often use bad arguments.
Like I said I already gave the reasons for why I am against the ban repeatedly.
Tell you what Ulevo.
