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Should Custom Mii's Be Seprated From Fighter Customs?

Would you allow Custom Mii's in a non-custom tournament?


  • Total voters
    324

LimitCrown

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Giving people in this thread a warning to ignore LimitCrown.
It's like banging your head against a wall.
Right when I called you out and a few other people out for repeatedly asserting your argument, you suggest others to ignore my comments. If you actually ignore the responses to the arguments that you make, then you are not adequately justifying your position. Not only is it childish, it is also hypocritical since you are accusing me of being hard-headed or stubborn, which would also apply to you. I wouldn't ignore your posts just because you disagree with me.

I've totally missed what's going on here. Care to explain? You seem to be throwing shade at me.


I've slightly edited my stance on this. There is in fact reason to not include them, but if they were to be included, there are very few logistical issues with implementing them.
Are you done being sarcastic?
 

LimitCrown

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I'm seriously not being sarcastic. I'm just curious as to whether you're talking about me or not. I can explain if you are.
I was referring to your previous comment:
I've totally missed what's going on here. Care to explain? You seem to be throwing shade at me.
Also, you seemed to think that I was talking specifically about you even though my comment was a reply to someone else and I was clearly referring to a general group of people and the arguments that are continuously used despite being shown to be incorrect or not having valid reasons provided for them.
 
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CursedJay

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I was referring to your previous comment:

Also, you seemed to think that I was talking specifically about you even though my comment was a reply to someone else and I was clearly referring to a general group of people and the arguments that are continuously used despite being shown to be incorrect or not having valid reasons provided for them.
Ah, alright. I was just curious as to whether I was included or not. :p
 

GeneralLedge

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Alright I'm up to date on the thread and have a dizzy spell now. Two things I've taken away from it:

1) The forum is in desperate need of a
smiley.

2) I'd have quoted Dapuffster at least five times using said smiley and been infracted by now.


For actual on-topic takes on things:

1) I think all Mii customs are valid moves, do not distrupt the game or its meta, and are very easy to set up much FASTER than custom names are. There's very little reason to disallow this.

2) We need need neeeeeed to distribute QR codes for various Mii sizes proper so TOs can set them up effortlessly enough that 1 is valid regardless of size. .san mentioned in the Skype group that 0/0, 25/0, and 50/0 are each different enough to warrant individual body sizes for general purposes.

3) Something I think needs better distinguishing is the difference between Miis as analytical "classes" versus being actual characters. "Mii Sword" is not really a character, but a concept. A 50/0 Mii using Mii Sword's moveset 3231 and the Black Knight costume, named "Blk.Kngt" is, on the other hand, a character. They're the Black Knight. That's who they are. "Mii Sword" be damned.

Could I refer to them as "3231 50/0 Mii Sword"? Yes, but "Black Knight" is both cooler and easier to say repeatedly in a sentence.
 

⑨ball

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I've slightly edited my stance on this. There is in fact reason to not include them, but if they were to be included, there are very few logistical issues with implementing them.
Are logistics actually an issue with customs?

AA doesn't seem to think so, and it seems a lot of the solutions for Mii inclusion that don't involve additional steps outside of the game would also be applicable to every other custom character.
 

iDreamTheater

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Are logistics actually an issue with customs?

AA doesn't seem to think so, and it seems a lot of the solutions for Mii inclusion that don't involve additional steps outside of the game would also be applicable to every other custom character.
The larger the tournament, the more resources you have for getting customs to a logistically feasible level. Not every tournament is enormous. Locals and regionals may not have the manpower to regularly and easily implement customs.
 

Pegasus Knight

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Too tired for what? I'm not going to sit here and debate my reason to keep the status quo
In some venues, the status quo was 'open Mii design'. Anther's Ladder allowed it until someone cried about Brawler's Helicopter Kick combos.

you're job is to give solid reasons as why the rules should change that is what this is. Like I said there have been 0 legit reasons that actually involve competitive play.
Just going to keep this quote in mind for the moment because it will be relevant later on. Emphasis in bold added by me.

Logistics have almost nothing to do with the in game factor so why is that trying to be used as a point to give a character an advantage?
We're talking about logistics because Tournament Organizers have a right to be given reasonable assurances that, no, the Mii players aren't going to add another 15 hours of run-time to events that already tend to go over-schedule. We need a few minutes per tourney station at most.

You guys are pretty much saying " oh well our customs are open right out the gate so we should get them" No, that is not how it works.
No, we're stating these are not 'custom moves.' Our core point is there is no true default move on a Mii Fighter. There is simply the first choice in a series of options, and then options 2 and 3 below it. That doesn't make option 1 on them the 'default' any more than the first burger on the menu at a diner is the default option. A Mii running 1111 starts to make very little sense, since on the design level they were balanced around the idea that they have open movelist selection. That Sakurai has been making extensive fixes to Mii moves, when he rarely extends this courtesy to other characters' specials beyond their defaults, lends credence to this idea.

The user interface, on multiple levels, further backs this up. "When have we ever listened to Sakurai" one might ask. Well, we keep the damage ratios at normal. We keep the game speed at normal. We have options to tweak those in various ways, after all. Apparently we don't, as a matter of reflex, just outright ignore him every single time.

We all know miis are 100% a custom character so why are people sitting here trying say that when custom off is toggled we can pick a custom character so they should be treated as a regular character? No, that is not how this works.
Why not? Why are you afraid of the idea of a trio of characters whose special trick in their otherwise straightforward fighting styles is they can be tweaked to the user's preference? How is that any worse a special advantage than Mac's armored smashes and Rosalina's puppet and Mega Man's multiple projectiles he can use while moving?

Why don't you guys make ACTUAL ingame applications that give us a reason make the entire community have to learn a different set of MUs.
*Nods at you.* Okay. </Ness>

DLC already makes the entire community have to learn a different set of MUs. Apparently this is something the entire community is capable of. Why are you insulting their ability to do so, presuming for every other player that they would be so incredibly put out by the effort necessary to study the Miis?

The game itself allows these characters in their full form even with Customs set to Off. You are applying out of game reasoning and constraints to them without explaining why these limitations make the game better. Remember, the Miis weren't designed around 1111 like everyone else is. When Sakurai balances them, he considers them from the onset to be adjustable characters by the player and the idea one of them would just limit themselves to 1111 was probably alien to him.

So let me ask you something, Competitive Player Burst. Why are you afraid of the Miis? Why are you unwilling to learn their matchups? Why are you so frightened that you must support imposing severe limits on them, ones so harsh they outright gut Brawler and cause Swordfighter to stop making design-level sense? Evo has shown they are not unstoppable (far from it!) in their normal forms with open design freedom. Apparently your fellow 'the entire community' can beat them well enough, but you remain afraid.

Should I take it then that you cannot beat them and are trying to impose limits on Miis so you don't have to deal with a matchup you refuse to learn? I suppose being lazy if you can convince tournament organizers to go along with your sob story does beat actually putting in the work to learn how to fight these characters, doesn't it... Competitive Player Burst?
 

XandeClone

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Upon examination of previous posts in this thread, I've realized that there seems to be a sentiment echoed among anti-mii supporters:
"mii's alternate specials are customs, therefore should be banned, regardless of what the customs toggle dictates"

People need to realize that turning off customs =/= banning them in the same way that turning off items =/= banning them.

For example, even though we elect to turn the item toggle to "off", we still allow peach and diddy to use their items, because that is their "gimmick". Had this not been the case, and iff switching items off equated to banning them outright, then peach and diddy would be restricted from using their items.

That, however, is not the case with items. Why then are we discriminating? Why not allow miis to use their "gimmick" even though it is allowed in the interface?

Just some food for thought.
 

clydeaker

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There are still a few things that I would like to bring up on this topic:
#1
* * * :4palutena: PALUTENA :4palutena:* * *

If Mii Fighters get to use customs in a non-custom tournament why can't Palutena?...
...Let me explain.

PROS - Like Mii Fighters... (A.K.A. unlike"normal" characters... )
  • All of her custom special moves are already unlocked by default. This means you can make any custom set possible with her from the start of the game. No updates, unlocking Characters, or Custom farming required.
  • Each of her custom special moves are unique rather than clones of the of the default special moves.
CONS - Like "normal" characters... (A.K.A. unlike Mii fighters... )
  • Palutena has a her own default set, thus not requiring you to make a custom 1111 move set.
  • Turning customs off prevents her from using custom moves as she is considered a "normal" character.
  • She can NOT alter her hight and weight characteristics (aside from equipment).
  • Other than her alternate colors, Palutena doesn't have any other form of visual customizations like Mii's do with Mii Maker, Mii Colors, Height & Weight, Headgear, Outfits, etc.

#2
A classification of all characters by custom move and character unlock-ability:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Mii Fighters:
No default set, customs pre-unlocked,
[ :4miibrawl: :4miisword: :4miigun: ]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Palutena: * * *
Normal characters with customs pre-unlocked.

[ :4palutena: ]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Normal Characters w/ Challenge Customs:
Normal characters with one custom move that's gained through a challenge. See here.
[ :4mario: :4diddy: :4link: :4marth: :4myfriends: :4falcon: :4metaknight: :4villager: :4wiifit: ]

- Normal Characters:
Character pre-unlocked, one default 1111 set, Customs unlocked normally.
[ :4luigi: :4peach: :4bowser: :4yoshi: :rosalina: :4dk: :4littlemac: :4zelda: :4sheik: :4tlink: :4samus: :4zss: :4pit: :4robinm: :4kirby: :4dedede: :4fox: :4pikachu: :4charizard: :4lucario: :4greninja: :4olimar: :4shulk: :4pacman: :4megaman: :4sonic: ]

- 3DS Only Unlockable Characters:
Normal characters that can be unlocked only on the 3DS.
[ :4bowserjr: :4ganondorf: :4jigglypuff: :4ness: ]

- Unlockable Characters:
Normal characters that can be unlocked (3DS & Wii U).
[ :4wario: :4gaw: :4duckhunt: :4falco: :4rob: :4drmario: :4darkpit: :4lucina: ]

- DLC Characters:
Pay to download; no custom moves available.
[ :4mewtwo: :4lucas: :4feroy: :4ryu: ... ]

#1
Amiibos


Mii Fighters aren't the only things that can access customizations with the customs setting off, so can Amiibos.
Amiibos will use exactly what you customize them to use such as equipment and Special moves regardless of whether the customs setting is on or off. although they can't be used online they arguably have just as much of a reason to be tournament legal as Mii Fighters do.
(Ha ha! Just kidding. I don't think Amiibos should be tournament legal in a legitimate tournament.. :awesome:)
 
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iDreamTheater

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@xande Turning items off in competitive play is more directed towards the disabling of randomly spawning items that can potentially turn the tide of battle based solely on luck, it is not us wanting to disable items that are part of moves. Moves with startup frames and end lag that require skill to use rather than having a golden hammer dropped in front of you.
 
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Magik0722

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I'm confused...can you explain that again if you don't mind?
The decision to not allow miis was not a nintendo decision but a developer decision, so saying the reason for miis not being allowing online wasn't due to fears of insulting miis isn't because other games with mii's allow them online doesnt hold any water since those other games were made by different developers.
 
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XandeClone

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@xande Turning items off in competitive play is more directed towards the disabling of randomly spawning items that can potentially turn the tide of battle based solely on luck, it is not us wanting to disable items that are part of moves. Moves with startup frames and end lag that require skill to use rather than having a golden hammer dropped in front of you.
I understand that items were banned because they're horrible for competition. But what about peach? Her turnips are random, as they can either be regular, stitch, or sword (in melee, at least), or heck, even mr. saturn.

Custom moves themselves have no randomness at all, and require just as much skill as clever item play. And while im not saying peach's items are degenerative (because they still require a degree of skill to use effectively), I do think that both forced items and mii customs can be seen as "character gimmicks" that help competition.
 

GeneralLedge

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(Ha ha! Just kidding. I don't think Amiibos should be tournament legal in a legitimate tournament.. :awesome:)
I had an epiphany the other day: What if you could play as your Amiibo's character?

It would solve so many logistical problems with customs, it isn't even funny. Alas, Nintendo...
 

deepseadiva

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Good post @ clydeaker clydeaker !

I have a question about Amiibos I wonder if you would know. When you "activate" an Amiibo, does that exclusively mean you're activating a computer player, or is there any way you could play as the Amiibo character?

Like, this was something I was curious about when they introduced them. Could I bring a Mii Fighter Amiibo to a tournament, and have my customs and costume all selected on the Amiibo, and instead of taking time to setup an individual Mii, just plug in the Amiibo to speed up the process.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense, I don't own any of the toys. I'm might actually get one to see. xD

LMAO @ GeneralLedge GeneralLedge we had the exact same idea. It doesn't work like that?
 
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iDreamTheater

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I understand that items were banned because they're horrible for competition. But what about peach? Her turnips are random, as they can either be regular, stitch, or sword (in melee, at least), or heck, even mr. saturn.

Custom moves themselves have no randomness at all, and require just as much skill as clever item play. And while im not saying peach's items are degenerative (because they still require a degree of skill to use effectively), I do think that both forced items and mii customs can be seen as "character gimmicks" that help competition.
Let's not go too far off topic here, but how about we consider Judgment? A Luigi misfire? Both involve a certain amount of luck and skill to pull off successfully. How is this much different in than getting a nice 50/50 read punish (other than actual % chances)?
 

⑨ball

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The larger the tournament, the more resources you have for getting customs to a logistically feasible level. Not every tournament is enormous. Locals and regionals may not have the manpower to regularly and easily implement customs.
If TOs are communicating with Pro-customs players like one would expect them to also be doing for Pro-mii players, I'm sure similar solutions can be reached. Do you think that small areas would have issues with players being responsible for their own custom characters? For example if a player wanted to use a 25/0 mii gunner xxxx and Wario xxxx they'd need to bring their own 3DS capable of transfer. This would lessen the workload on TOs for attaining customs while also avoiding the potential nightmare that allowing each mii player to fully customize could bring.
 

iDreamTheater

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This also reintroduces the issue of players sneaking equipment into their fighter, right? I suppose if the tournament is small enough the TO can personally oversee the creation and transfer of each custom fighter.
 

Pegasus Knight

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and have my customs and costume all selected on the Amiibo, and instead of taking time to setup an individual Mii, just plug in the Amiibo to speed up the process.
Unfortunately, Amiibos have inherent stat boosts over the normal form of the character. They'd have to change how Amiibos work for this to be a viable idea.
 

XandeClone

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Let's not go too far off topic here, but how about we consider Judgment? A Luigi misfire? Both involve a certain amount of luck and skill to pull off successfully. How is this much different in than getting a nice 50/50 read punish (other than actual % chances)?
I'm not really sure, but I think that they require enough skill to take advantage of (like Judgement) and are rare enough that they don't hurt the game.

But yeah, thats kind of off-topic and doesn't really pertain to the issue of miis.
 

clydeaker

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Good post @ clydeaker clydeaker !

I have a question about Amiibos I wonder if you would know. When you "activate" an Amiibo, does that exclusively mean you're activating a computer player, or is there any way you could play as the Amiibo character?

Like, this was something I was curious about when they introduced them. Could I bring a Mii Fighter Amiibo to a tournament, and have my customs and costume all selected on the Amiibo, and instead of taking time to setup an individual Mii, just plug in the Amiibo to speed up the process.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense, I don't own any of the toys. I'm might actually get one to see. xD

LMAO @ GeneralLedge GeneralLedge we had the exact same idea. It doesn't work like that?
Sadly no.
The closest thing I can think of would be to have a personally trained amiibo and yourself team up in a doubles tournament... Just saying, that would be awesome.

you could train your Amiibo 1-on-1 so it copies your play style. or use an Amiibo your friend trained. That would be sick!
You would probably need to legalize equipment in order to make it more fair. it's combines the Chicken fighting like Amiibo training aspect and your own personal skill.
On a side note I bet equipment, custom moves, and Mii fighters would be more widely accepted if everyone had their own personal 3DS with all of their own equipment and customs.
Sadly Amiibos wont likely be used in tournaments.

Sorry for being off topic.
 

GeneralLedge

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This also reintroduces the issue of players sneaking equipment into their fighter, right? I suppose if the tournament is small enough the TO can personally oversee the creation and transfer of each custom fighter.
Unfortunately, Amiibos have inherent stat boosts over the normal form of the character. They'd have to change how Amiibos work for this to be a viable idea.
The assumption is that (a) Amiibos under play wouldn't get level boosts, and (b) Equipment would be neglected in a similar sense to customs being off on Miis.

If these were true it would solve the customs debate outright. Need some hackers to get on it. :p
 
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⑨ball

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This also reintroduces the issue of players sneaking equipment into their fighter, right? I suppose if the tournament is small enough the TO can personally oversee the creation and transfer of each custom fighter.
I mean if we're talking a region so small that there isn't a single unlocked 3DS in the entire community there's a good chance they can. I'd also expect that this could function as a temporary solution until dedicated TOs acquire the necessary resources.
 

Jopeja

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While I love the Mii Swordfighter and I have my personal set of moves in place, using custom Miis with different sizes and moves in a non-custom environment just wouldn't be fair for the other people fighting them.
One of the bigger reasons why, in my opinion, is the inconsistent matchup. In a non-customs environment, all of the non-Mii characters are, well, constant. Mario will always have the same weight and speed, Luigi will always have the same fireball, WFT will always have the same header, etc. A person can walk in a tournament and know from the get-go what tools Luigi has because Luigi will be the same no matter what non-customs tournament that person attends.
However, unregulated Miis are not constant. They could be really short and fast, or really tall with insane reach. A Mii Brawler could go in with the Shot-Put Throw or the Ultimate Uppercut. I can assure you that almost every Mii-user out there has a different load out. It's because of these inconsistencies that it'd be near impossible for non-Mii-using tourney goers to properly prepare for the Mii Fighters matchup. Mii-users would have an unfair, for lack of a better term, "element of surprise" over other players.
If Mii Fighters were regulated, with the default "Mii Guest" size, and a "1111" load out, then other people could properly prepare for the matchup.
Anyways, that's just my two-cents on the matter.
 

Magik0722

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While I love the Mii Swordfighter and I have my personal set of moves in place, using custom Miis with different sizes and moves in a non-custom environment just wouldn't be fair for the other people fighting them.
One of the bigger reasons why, in my opinion, is the inconsistent matchup. In a non-customs environment, all of the non-Mii characters are, well, constant. Mario will always have the same weight and speed, Luigi will always have the same fireball, WFT will always have the same header, etc. A person can walk in a tournament and know from the get-go what tools Luigi has because Luigi will be the same no matter what non-customs tournament that person attends.
However, unregulated Miis are not constant. They could be really short and fast, or really tall with insane reach. A Mii Brawler could go in with the Shot-Put Throw or the Ultimate Uppercut. I can assure you that almost every Mii-user out there has a different load out. It's because of these inconsistencies that it'd be near impossible for non-Mii-using tourney goers to properly prepare for the Mii Fighters matchup. Mii-users would have an unfair, for lack of a better term, "element of surprise" over other players.
If Mii Fighters were regulated, with the default "Mii Guest" size, and a "1111" load out, then other people could properly prepare for the matchup.
Anyways, that's just my two-cents on the matter.
Why can't players learn all of the mii movesets? Why do you assume the playerbase can only know so much about the game?
If i played a zelda player today in tournament I wouldnt completely know her toolkit.
 

Jigglymaster

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While I love the Mii Swordfighter and I have my personal set of moves in place, using custom Miis with different sizes and moves in a non-custom environment just wouldn't be fair for the other people fighting them.
One of the bigger reasons why, in my opinion, is the inconsistent matchup. In a non-customs environment, all of the non-Mii characters are, well, constant. Mario will always have the same weight and speed, Luigi will always have the same fireball, WFT will always have the same header, etc. A person can walk in a tournament and know from the get-go what tools Luigi has because Luigi will be the same no matter what non-customs tournament that person attends.
However, unregulated Miis are not constant. They could be really short and fast, or really tall with insane reach. A Mii Brawler could go in with the Shot-Put Throw or the Ultimate Uppercut. I can assure you that almost every Mii-user out there has a different load out. It's because of these inconsistencies that it'd be near impossible for non-Mii-using tourney goers to properly prepare for the Mii Fighters matchup. Mii-users would have an unfair, for lack of a better term, "element of surprise" over other players.
If Mii Fighters were regulated, with the default "Mii Guest" size, and a "1111" load out, then other people could properly prepare for the matchup.
Anyways, that's just my two-cents on the matter.

They wouldn't be as inconsistant as you think. It's been heavily dicussed that the tiny size is the overal best size for the mii fighters, and hardly anyone woudl be using anything different. In terms of size, damage, range, sizes hardly change anything other than a few frames. It will not hinder your ability to combo them at all.

With Mii Brawler specifically, his side B will always be onslaught and his down b will always be feint jump. Anyone who actually doesn't use these two moves isn't a threat because they don't know what they're doing.

Ultimate Uppercut/Shotput and Helicopter kick/Feint jump are just four different moves to learn, not that big of a deal. One is a slow moving projectile, another charges, only hurts fully charged and has super armor, one recovers horizontally, one recovers vertically.

Not much else to it.

It's a poor excuse when you look at Shulk when his physics drastically change between each monado art.
 

GeneralLedge

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If Mii Fighters were regulated, with the default "Mii Guest" size, and a "1111" load out, then other people could properly prepare for the matchup.
I could go into how regardless of preparation it's up to the player themself rather than the character they're using, but I think the thought-process behind it is really narrow.

Mii Fighters ARE NOT "three characters". They ARE "three templates".

From each template stems about 81 combinations (and therefore 81 characters), not including size. However, something to consider is that size has very, very little effect on how Miis actually act. Generally, lower numbers mean they move faster and control better, while higher numbers add a small amount of range but screw frame data a bit.

At high-level play, you should be observing your opponents actions and judging them accordingly. If your opponent's movement is poor, you can assume they're running a taller Mii, and acknowledge their range may be better. If you lack the ability to observe and acknowledge this, then you aren't likely going to win the tournament even if Miis were banned.

On an unrelated note, ZeRo is the best Smash 4 player in the world explicitly because he CAN observe and adapt to his opponents, on an incredibly skillful level. I guarantee you Joe Shmoe isn't going to beat ZeRo because they used a weird moveset on a weird Mii size. And if this sounds like a no-brainer statement, it's because it is.
 
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JipC

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Imo both custom and non-custom tournies should only use guest miis. However non-custom tournies should make them 1111-only, customs can of course be any custom specials.
I also heard an interesting argument that says when customs are off in the game, the Miis remain on the character select screen, so thats what we should agree on what no customs mean. I think its actually a pretty objective way of looking at things.
 

Magik0722

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Imo both custom and non-custom tournies should only use guest miis. However non-custom tournies should make them 1111-only, customs can of course be any custom specials.
I also heard an interesting argument that says when customs are off in the game, the Miis remain on the character select screen, so thats what we should agree on what no customs mean. I think its actually a pretty objective way of looking at things.
Wait are you for or against unrestricting mii?
 

Auramaniji

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Imo both custom and non-custom tournies should only use guest miis. However non-custom tournies should make them 1111-only, customs can of course be any custom specials.
I also heard an interesting argument that says when customs are off in the game, the Miis remain on the character select screen, so thats what we should agree on what no customs mean. I think its actually a pretty objective way of looking at things.
It's better to let mii be in a non-custom environment because he has no defined default specials.
However, we should redefine what customs really are.
 

JipC

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Wait are you for or against unrestricting mii?
In a non-customs ruleset:
Guest Miis only
1111 only

In a customs ruleset:
Guest Miis only
any custom moves (duh)

Customizing Miis height/weight is too many combinations to work with, and also a logistics nightmare unless every Mii player carries around their 3DS with their Mii in it and transfers it to every setup they play on. Guest Miis is somthing everyone can practice as and against instead of just being surprised by one of the many weight/height combinations that you can have.

I dont think it can be a match-changer but its still not something one can reasonably prepare for.
 
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CursedJay

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In a non-customs ruleset:
Guest Miis only
1111 only

In a customs ruleset:
Guest Miis only
any custom moves (duh)

Customizing Miis height/weight is too many combinations to work with, and also a logistics nightmare unless every Mii player carries around their 3DS with their Mii in it and transfers it to every setup they play on. Guest Miis is somthing everyone can practice as and against instead of just being surprised by one of the many weight/height combinations that you can have.

I dont think it can be a match-changer but its still not something one can reasonably prepare for.
I've already said that Miis are in no way a logistics issue. I'm not going to let players port over their Miis, the customs that are currently being used are perfectly fine the way they are.

Edit: please refer to my earlier arguments on the topic of logistics. It's like the only thing I'm concerned with.
 
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JipC

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I've already said that Miis are in no way a logistics issue. I'm not going to let players port over their Miis, the customs that are currently being used are perfectly fine the way they are.

Edit: please refer to my earlier arguments on the topic of logistics. It's like the only thing I'm concerned with.
Thats why I specified guest miis, they're on every system/Smash 4 copy
 

Dooms

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In a non-customs ruleset:
Guest Miis only
1111 only

In a customs ruleset:
Guest Miis only
any custom moves (duh)

Customizing Miis height/weight is too many combinations to work with, and also a logistics nightmare unless every Mii player carries around their 3DS with their Mii in it and transfers it to every setup they play on. Guest Miis is somthing everyone can practice as and against instead of just being surprised by one of the many weight/height combinations that you can have.

I dont think it can be a match-changer but its still not something one can reasonably prepare for.
Lol @ guest miis for custom tournaments.

Custom Moveset Project has their own Mii's. Anyone not using the CMP mii's for custom tournaments is doing it wrong.
 

⑨ball

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It's better to let mii be in a non-custom environment because he has no defined default specials.
However, we should redefine what customs really are.
Every character has very clearly defined customs and default specials. If you have to change the special in the custom menu it's a custom move. Miis are simply unique in that the UI lets them use their customs regardless of custom fighters being set to off, similar to how characters like Diddy and Peach can produce items despite items being set to off.

The issue with Mii customs doesn't hinge on whether they actually have customs or not because no respectable TO is going to let that circular logic slide.

It'll always come down to one or two things:

1.The logistics of running customs in small or inept regions, which Miis and Palutena are immune to creating a disparity among other players that wish to use their customs. Logistics are hardly an issue on a larger scale as resources are more readily available. This may cause strife among pro-customs players who do not use miis, but there are likely to be alternatives that can be reached for them through communication with their TO.

2. A large or larger amount of tournament players have asked that customs be disallowed. This has nothing to do with logistics, and everything to do with preference being responded to by the TO. In this case customs will usually be set to off, and mii fighters will be restricted to their default sets as per the preference of the majority.
 
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Epok

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I am very much a pro Mii fighter advocate, but I do understand the POV of those who do not agree with mii fighters not having a standard build.

Just a thought... What if we did a "Competitive Mii Fighter Project". Where we as a community developed a standard for Mii fighters competitive play.

We have come to the conclusion that the CMP works very well as a system. I think that we could follow the same pattern exclusively for Mii fighters. Therefore giving them a standard for "non custom" tournaments, as well allow Mii fighter mains to not be left out and unrepresented.

With QR codes there would be no real logistical problems. Not to mention if you have a DS you have to do only one upload per setup because you can bulk transfer Mii fighters.

I would also suggest that there would be about 3-5 different sizes (5 Max), and 3-5 different configurations of moves on each theme (sword, gunner, brawler).

I think this may be a solid way to bridge the gap. Does it really have to be all or nothing? I am a TO in my community as well and I have been talking to my team that I personally don't want to make the final call of their legality because I am BIASED. I can provide them with a good reasoning why they should be allowed and how we could do it. But in the end I will respect and adhere to their decision either way.

In respect of the Non customs demographic I think it would be important to stress solid guidelines on what miis are, and are not acceptable. If we are going to have a standard we would need to stick to it.

At the same time though. I do feel that it is a TO's job to provide the best competitive experience possible for your customers (participants). So I think sometimes it is worth it to go the extra mile to do that. People will appreciate it. And if you are worried about time constraints or extra work(I personally hate that excuse btw :p), I think sometimes it just takes a bit of creative thinking to solve some of those problems.

Thoughts?
 

FSLink

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Yeah, I don't see why an equivalent to the CMP wouldn't work for Mii Fighters. Even if you allowed importation, I'd say it's still a good thing to have since honestly the majority of people would stick to "what's best" most of the time. I'd personally be using mostly CMP Miis if Miis were allowed. I really think the amount of people who just want to import their Mii would be a small amount anyway, we're more concerned about the movesets (+sizes, but it's not really a huge deal if most of the preferred sizes are already there).

If you're in a tournament that logistically allows more time to create Miis, you could use the Guest Miis on system to quickly create your own set as well.

I just really think logistics shouldn't really be a problem, the CMP method works really well for Miis, and you can add allowing imports or not depending on the logistics of your region/tournament.
 
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Auramaniji

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Every character has very clearly defined customs and default specials. If you have to change the special in the custom menu it's a custom move. Miis are simply unique in that the UI lets them use their customs regardless of custom fighters being set to off, similar to how characters like Diddy and Peach can produce items despite items being set to off.

The issue with Mii customs doesn't hinge on whether they actually have customs or not because no respectable TO is going to let that circular logic slide.

It'll always come down to one or two things:

1.The logistics of running customs in small or inept regions, which Miis and Palutena are immune to creating a disparity among other players that wish to use their customs. Logistics are hardly an issue on a larger scale as resources are more readily available. This may cause strife among pro-customs players who do not use miis, but there are likely to be alternatives that can be reached for them through communication with their TO.

2. A large or larger amount of tournament players have asked that customs be disallowed. This has nothing to do with logistics, and everything to do with preference being responded to by the TO. In this case customs will usually be set to off, and mii fighters will be restricted to their default sets as per the preference of the majority.
Can you give me some names of said tourament players?
Or even something to prove it?
 
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ThePuffDaddy

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No. Just watch Nick Riddle verses Vinnie at evo. Miis are jank and stupid with customs. Plus that's unfair to the rest of the cast. If miis are the only character that get customs thats unfair.I know the only way the miis become viable Is through customs, but its just not fair. Either ban all of them or keep them.
 
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