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I agree. I don't want this to turn into a customs on/customs off debate but I, despite being pro-mii, am in the customs off camp atm since they will likely hurt our game in the long run and they throw accessibility completely out of the window.
Again, I'm opposed to having multiple sets moreso than I am opposed to not using 1111. Like, I think 1111 should be the standard. Would I pack up and quit if something else was standard? Not at all. I just think it isn't fair if three characters are allowed more movesets than the rest of the cast. Most characters are worse off without their customs, but that doesn't mean I should make customs legal on my rules.
You missed the point.
If you're adding a rule into your ruleset specifically to screw over Mii mains and then say it's an attempt to not "shaft Mii Fighter mains", then you're already on the road to being a bad TO.
Yeah, I can imagine how something like that would offend you. I have no problem allowing Mii customs because they arent a pain in the ass to get and you can run them instantly on any system.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I've met you at Hitbox and had no problems with you, but I don't think putting in work on a character should mean that you should be allowed to play it. You invented Mii brawler, sure. It's still a custom set you're using though (in my opinion, of course). If I had a customs tourney, I'd have no problem with you playing 2122 Brawler. But if I ran a non-customs tourney, you'll have to play 1111.
Right, but the difference is that the game allows an exception to Miis, it does not provide an exception to other characters. Palutena is definitely worse without customs and she even has the benefit of all her customs being unlocked from the start!
Thanks for what you contributed to the Mii meta. I usually don't post much on Smashboards despite being on here awhile, but I felt the need to speak up since I love using and seeing the Miis in competitive play.
Do you wish to take this string to PMs?
You could say banning customs screws over lots of characters too. Thanks for your input I guess, but I'm not going to allow an exception to a rule because it hurts the feelings of some players. If you don't like your character without customs at a non-customs tournament, use a different character or don't play.
That's probably the nicest way I've ever heard someone say "Come at me, brah".
I respect your opinion on the matter, but I personally don't care about if the game allows it. Items are unfair so we ban them. Some stages are unfair so we ban them. Having 9 possible movesets in a non-custom environment is unfair so I'll ban it.
Well, I do hope that you understand that if that were the case and I came to one of your non-customs tournaments. I'd ask all the tournament participants first to see if they were okay with me using 2122 Mii brawler. If the majority voted yes. I'd use it regardless of your rules. Then you'd have to kick me out.
I'm sorry you feel that way. Unfortunately, players do not override the TO and you'd be DQ'd for using a custom moveset.
Why are you still being that way
It's not unfair though? The game allows it, and they aren't broken or harmful to the meta like certain stages and items. If it's just a simple "have more options than other characters", it's a silly reason to ban them from using their other movesets when the game allows the exception. Is allowing 9 or more possible movesets for Miis harmful? I don't think so. Plus you can't just ban things if they are unfair, they have to be harmful to the meta like say Order Tackle + Amplifying Reflector in doubles prepatched.
Experimenting is fine. But my views are what I would make standard. If I held weeklies or biweeklies like Hitbox, I'd experiment. Unfortunately, I don't have the luxury of running tourneys that often. I'll have to let them do the science for me.
Thanks, I guess. Feel free to take it to a PM if you have anything more to say on this specific matter.
Nah, that's about it. I've said what I've needed to say. You've said what you needed to say. I told you what would happen if I came to one of your tournaments and that's exactly what would happen. There's nothing more to it.
Sure, and I respect that. But like I said before, I don't get to run tourneys as often as somewhere like Hitbox. I don't have the luxury of experimenting and so I'll stick with what I know works and let someone else do the science on customs to work out the kinks. If they can find something that really works and doesn't seem to cause problems, I'll adopt it.
Your views are your own, you shouldn't push your views on your players like that. You are the type to run a 2 stock tournament in a 3 stock region because you don't view 3 stocks as healthy to the game personally. Ignoring your players makes you a bad TO
I actually like 3 stock and may end up trying it out.
Like I said, Custom Palutena would be awesome to have as a thing, but there's no in-game logic to allow this. If we were to add an exception to the in-game logic, that would realistically open the doors as an argument to customs for everyone. (Which I'm also for, but a different scope for this topic)
Items have clear data on why they're harmful and ban worthy to the meta, I do not believe Miis have had their fair shot, not in the very least.
That is fine to try and push somethings but to outright ignore a majority vote on something that won't hurt your tournament at all? Not good TOing in my eyes. They say "hey Miis aren't that bad, lets let them use their sets" and you say "no because of how I personally feel and your view doesn't matter to me" and then boom end of discussion
Even so, I'd prep for them. They'd never necesarily be used, but at the very least I'm able to cater to the specific needs of the players.
Also posting this again since nobody has tried to really argue this.
If you allowed Miis, I could imagine some would complain, but the majority wouldn't even use Miis anyway. /shrug
Miis are better without 1111 sets since they were designed to have varied movesets. No opponent who knew how Miis work would agree to it because Miis are better outside of 1111. It's not a good rule.
This creates problems. If a player prepares using a custom set and is told by their opponent they can not use it, it puts them at an instant disadvantage. The custom Mii meta alone isnt large enough to be unreasonable to learn, taking maybe 3 days of playing to figure out.
Have you used say, a 1111 Mii Brawler before? The moveset makes little sense and does not complement their A moves much at all. I think that + the game allowing them to use all their specials in all modes -FG means they were designed for this. This is why a lot of Mii mainers just say it'd be better to ban them out right.