Shoot First, Ask Questions Later: The Samus Tactical Discussion & Q&A Thread

[Cherry64]

50:50 Pit
60:40 Marth

I don't see how you guys are finding Pit hard. I can understand Marth. All I can say to that is play smarter.

Woah now. I never said pit was Hard He's pretty much even, but he has Teh Arrowz. That makes it 55:45 if he uses Teh Arrowz/ otherwise it's relatively fair

 

[NO-IDea]

Wasn't specifically directed to you. >.>

 

[DtJ Composer]

I'm not sure who you were directing it at then. <.<

 

[Cherry64]

I'm not sure who you were directing it at then. <.<

Quoted for Truth

Anyways, that's literlly my pit write-up. He has Teh Arrowz.

 

[KillerJawz]

Noid stop targeting innocent Cherry ;______;

 

[Throwback]

I dunno, I just never have huge amounts of trouble with marth. fair is ok for him but if he rises it you can zair OOS, if he falls it you get a grab. homing missile to whatever approach you want (personally I tend to mix up zairs & dash-grabs). Charge shot makes him scared about rushing you. forward tilt is awesome. He may be great offstage but samus has it better than most other characters here, plus if he misses the edgeguard you have a very good chance of gimping him. To top it off, he's fairly light and really only kills on tippers. The biggest advantage he has is dancing blade, that **** is so broken.

That's my experience, anyway.

Also he's tall which I love to play against, despite his low hitbox running animation.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

I also never have that much trouble with Marth. Zair beats his near everything and Utilt wrecks his aerial approaches.

I give marth 65:35

Pit, i have a lot of trouble on, mainly from his arrows. They come out much faster than our missles, but CS takes care of those nicely if you can find the time to charge it, but he still has his reflectors so it is hard to say.

I give Pit 50:50 or maybe 55:45 Pit's favor.

Is it possible to screw attack out of a Snake's nair? I have done it once but have been unable to recreate it.

 

[NO-IDea]

*sighs and walks away*

EDIT: Wow, this post got an infraction for sensor dodging.

EDIT2: Wow, this post got changed into an infraction for minor spam.

EDIT3: Oh, it was a warning.

 

[KillerJawz]

Reversed, then warned lol. My browser lagged on me :/. It's not an infraction you noob

Spoiler

I would never infract you anyway <3

Also guys, we don't happen to have IASA data for Samus' moves do we?

 

[Cherry64]

I also never have that much trouble with Marth. Zair beats his near everything and Utilt wrecks his aerial approaches.

I give marth 65:35

Pit, i have a lot of trouble on, mainly from his arrows. They come out much faster than our missles, but CS takes care of those nicely if you can find the time to charge it, but he still has his reflectors so it is hard to say.

I give Pit 50:50 or maybe 55:45 Pit's favor.

Is it possible to screw attack out of a Snake's nair? I have done it once but have been unable to recreate it.

I've done it out of the first hit only, and only once. Maybe if you trained to do it then yes, but to a regular samus the timing is too hard to get lucky with. You can SDI it a little bit, I like to SDI up because usuallySnakes FF their kick. Not entirely sure why but it's a trend I've noticed in most

And thanks for the Back up there KJ <3

Don't feel bad NOID, he gave me a warning for the same thing a while back too :\ He's ruthless this one.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Reversed, then warned lol. My browser lagged on me :/. It's not an infraction you noob

Spoiler

I would never infract you anyway <3

Also guys, we don't happen to have IASA data for Samus' moves do we?

Don't think so. I can't seem to recall if any of her moves have any IASA frames

@Cherry: Interesting. Perhaps it is just luck of the draw.

 

[KillerJawz]

I recommend that you always SDI inwards, regardless of speed, if you can get out on the first hit, he is asking for a bair to the neck/back/where ever <3.

Also you can screw attack out of the first hit.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

I recommend that you always SDI inwards, regardless of speed, if you can get out on the first hit, he is asking for a bair to the neck/back/where ever <3.

Also you can screw attack out of the first hit.

I find that inwards is better as well. You may even be able to get a reverse CS on him if you have the shot available.

Does it work every time?

 

[KillerJawz]

Buffered perhaps, but it's more of a subconscious thing tbh. Try experimenting with it next time you play that Denver guy and give us the results.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Buffered perhaps, but it's more of a subconscious thing tbh. Try experimenting with it next time you play that Denver guy and give us the results.

I will see if i can enlist his help. I will be sure to give you the results. If it proves true that you can do it every time, it is less damage on us and more damage on him.

 

[KillerJawz]

At least now we will get it. I have been hearing about it throughout the pages, but i was wondering if it would ever happen. Looks like that guy is owed a huge thanks.

I found something very interesting, if not useless, thing about Samus's bombs. It seem that they cancel almost all launch momentum if hit by it. I know because i was playing a decent Lucario. When i was above him and slightly to the left, i stalled with a single bomb and he usmashed. I had enough time to land safely behind him and fsmash him. He was at least 150+. The bomb exploded right before i fsmashed him and he was very quickly launched into the hitbox of the exploding bomb. I expected him to keep flying, however, his launch momentum was almost completely canceled and he fell safely to the ground.

I am not sure what kind of applications this may or may not have. Certainly next to useless in singles, but it may do something for singles. Or may even set up for decent combos if used right

I am thinking that it may have some use against a Snake at high percent trying to get his cypher back with a c4 jump when you don't think you can dair him, and cause him to fall right back down from the bomb.

Interesting no-less, tell me what you think

Another neat thing about bombs, Play a lucas and bomb when you get hit with the tail of his Thunder bolt, just say cherry had some fun with this yesterday :D. Get a friend to use Lucas' UpB and hit you with it then bomb. It breaks the physics of the game, Similar to DACUS. Except we get boosted up or to to the side a little bit. I'm wondering why this happens, and maybe if we get a hackxor to look into this more we cold find diff scinerio's where this happens.


BTW saviorslegacy had it right. He said bombs could do this.

Hmm, interesting. Does this also happen with Ness? If so, it could depend on the type of move used against Samus.

I wonder. Is it possible to screw attack out of Snakes nair? I did it once in an online match, but when i tried to do it in Training, i couldn't recreate the result.

Lol didn't mean to. Accidently pressed submit twice

Continue your discussion. Copied on request of Cherry.

 

[Cherry64]

Continue your discussion. Copied on request of Cherry.

I love you more and MOAR everyday. Thought you should know.

ALSO I only IASA Frames we have are on our Utilt. It comes out faster the more times we use it in succession. So you'll see me edge guard a lot with it because of it's increased speed. Makes getting up harder.

Didn't actually know you could SDI through him tbh. I'v always gone up, but I'll give that a try next time

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Lol clever of you KJ

Anyway, i am still interested in the result of bombing while being hit with the tail of Lucas's PK Thunder. If it happens with Lucas who is to say it doesn't happen against other attacks?

I actually think i remember stage spiking with the tip of Samus's heel on BF during utilt. I may conduct some research on it.

Also, how far does the disjointed hitbox of Samus's utilt extend, specifically, does it extend under her as well?

 

[Cherry64]

Lol clever of you KJ

Anyway, i am still interested in the result of bombing while being hit with the tail of Lucas's PK Thunder. If it happens with Lucas who is to say it doesn't happen against other attacks?

I actually think i remember stage spiking with the tip of Samus's heel on BF during utilt. I may conduct some research on it.

Also, how far does the disjointed hitbox of Samus's utilt extend, specifically, does it extend under her as well?

I've killed Xyro that way before. it was on RC. T'was good.

The most infuriating thing I'm finding right now, is that I suck worse than samus does. I cannot control her right. I'll land and then turn around and jab, or I'll land and try and shield dash to anticipate their roll, but just stand there and get hit.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

I've killed Xyro that way before. it was on RC. T'was good.

The most infuriating thing I'm finding right now, is that I suck worse than samus does. I cannot control her right. I'll land and then turn around and jab, or I'll land and try and shield dash to anticipate their roll, but just stand there and get hit.

I have two problems with Samus at the moment. One is that i roll WAY too much. Samus's roll sucks yet i keep using it and getting punished, especially against snake. Also, when MCing or Zairing, my opponents manages to get too close and punishes me before i land. Think i should ffuair if this is the case?

 

[Cherry64]

The first one I can help you with. It's called shield dashing and being manoeuvrable, the second though is a basic problem all samus' have. Either z air better, or fake a jump so they get close but FF the jump and then Side Tilt. orr just Space better., Peace out.

Alright guys, I'll be back on later

 

[Throwback]

you've got plenty of options from a short-hop, but you have to be aware enough to adjust your response based on your opponent. Due to zair disabling fast-fall and (imo) reducing your aerial maneuverability, preparation to NOT zair is the key here. Options include double-jump and falling aerial. Bombing will work on occasion because opponents are looking to punish on the ground. Finally, Samus' deceleration is equal to wario's - you can change direction very quickly, and should use this to find a safe landing spot. You can also ff -> dtilt depending on the range.

 

[Xyro77]

never use bombs for anything but air stalling.

pro tip^

 

[Cherry64]

never use bombs for anything but air stalling.

pro tip^

technically that's what this is. anyways, all of you should try it. Get a lucas to use upB, then use your bombs and you will fly.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

never use bombs for anything but air stalling.

pro tip^

I never do. The only things i ever use bombs for is air stalling or setting up for awesome spikes on characters whom have vertical recovery such as Marth, etc.

Then what say, would you use against a Snake? He can grab us out of just about all of our aerial moves.

 

[Cherry64]

I never do. The only things i ever use bombs for is air stalling or setting up for awesome spikes on characters whom have vertical recovery such as Marth, etc.

Then what say, would you use against a Snake? He can grab us out of just about all of our aerial moves.

Don't use Aerials?

 

[Xyro77]

Then what say, would you use against a Snake? He can grab us out of just about all of our aerial moves.

Dont ever use air moves on snake. Even if he cant grab u, his utilt will hit u. Correctly guess and punish his rolls/air dodges/ground dodges and also try to combo or KO from the walls of spam u create.

 

[Dragonmaster_Omega]

Dont ever use air moves on snake. Even if he cant grab u, his utilt will hit u. Correctly guess and punish his rolls/air dodges/ground dodges and also try to combo or KO from the walls of spam u create.

I try, but the Snake i face is very proficient at PSing so it is a bit complicated in getting that KO. He also, as i stated before, closes the distance between us quickly and since i am usually in the air he punishes me before i even land

 

[KillerJawz]

I really just don't have problems with Snake, just play the edge and he's like a puppy without a leash.

 

[Throwback]

always push your aerials behind snake. That leaves utilt & uair as his only options, which will still KO you at some stupid %.

If he powershields, approach with missile cancels.

 

[ViceGrip]

question: instead of rolling (cause samus's roll sucks) how good of an idea is it to use a bomb and then cancel out of it with a run? Just a thought. Can you down B oos? Sounds like a nub question but I'm not sure. Also is it worth it to learn to play samus with tap jump on? I know she can up B oos with tap jump on but how much of an advantage is that compared to dropping sheild and using up b? I think it has been determined that samus does NOT have invincibility frames when using up B out of sheild. I'm asking because I can't seem to control Samus as well with tap jump on because she'll sometimes double jump when I don't mean her to. Thus if it's not THAT much more of an advantage to play with tap jump on then i probably won't. This post has been more than one question, sorry about that- I just keep typing questions as i think of them haha.

 

[Xyro77]

question: instead of rolling (cause samus's roll sucks) how good of an idea is it to use a bomb and then cancel out of it with a run? Just a thought. Can you down B oos? Sounds like a nub question but I'm not sure. Also is it worth it to learn to play samus with tap jump on? I know she can up B oos with tap jump on but how much of an advantage is that compared to dropping sheild and using up b? I think it has been determined that samus does NOT have invincibility frames when using up B out of sheild. I'm asking because I can't seem to control Samus as well with tap jump on because she'll sometimes double jump when I don't mean her to. Thus if it's not THAT much more of an advantage to play with tap jump on then i probably won't. This post has been more than one question, sorry about that- I just keep typing questions as i think of them haha.

Leave tap jump on.

NEVER USE BOMBS AT ALL.

Never roll ever.

 

[KillerJawz]

^What he said.

I improvise with tap jump off with the CCpro, since it has an extra button, I just slap jump on that.

 

[ViceGrip]

Thast's a good suggestion KillerJawz, I already have my jump set to L so I'll just use that and keep tap jump off. Thanks for the advice guys. How important is it to air dodge just before you use zair? I see samus's doing this a lot and I'm wondering how important of a technique it is for me to utilize. I normally just hop around and zair without using the airdodge. If so, what button is most convenient to set to dodge? Just wondering because my L is set to jump and Pressing the Y and then R button in quick succession is kinda difficult. Hope I'm not being a pest with all these questions, just new to samus but I am a experienced player in general.

 

[Cherry64]

I try, but the Snake i face is very proficient at PSing so it is a bit complicated in getting that KO. He also, as i stated before, closes the distance between us quickly and since i am usually in the air he punishes me before i even land

You'll have the same problem, with a lot of fights. Takes getting used to.

As it wasn't elaborated on in the slightest. Missile cancel a homing missile, it SHOULD stop snake, if he hasn't brought his mortar out yet, While a Smash missile WILL stop his slide completely.

As for his power-shielding shenanigans, that just means you KNOW when he's going to shield, Missile Cancel a homing missile and chase it, he should put his shield up, in which case, grab him. Keep doing this, he'll have to figure out a new way to deal with your spam, because the shield can be grabbed,

 

[Throwback]

yeah I meant what Cherry said. If he decides to spot-dodge your Missle -> grabs, then you can start having some fun. Mix up your grabs with tilts, delayed dash attack, SH uair, RAR Bair, even run through him to pivot grab. You should dash into all of these, by the way.

Also MC to fully CS works great on powershielders - they powershield then take the CS in the face.

 

[Zatchiel]

I was wondering if we'd need a secondary for Samus since we're going to need one, lol
Any suggestions on who feels to play like Samus the most?

 

[Xyro77]

I was wondering if we'd need a secondary for Samus since we're going to need one, lol
Any suggestions on who feels to play like Samus the most?

Toonlink.

He relies on projectiles/zair and he stays in the air most of the time. ALL 3 of those things is whats samus does too.

 

[NO-IDea]

I was wondering if we'd need a secondary for Samus since we're going to need one, lol
Any suggestions on who feels to play like Samus the most?

lol

You're totally missing the point of choosing a secondary if you choose a character that "feels like Samus."

Pick a character that accounts for her flaws, not one that accentuates her strengths.

 

[Zatchiel]

Toonlink.

He relies on projectiles/zair and he stays in the air most of the time. ALL 3 of those things is whats samus does too.

Thing is, i suck with Tink =(
D'aw.

lol

You're totally missing the point of choosing a secondary if you choose a character that "feels like Samus."

Pick a character that accounts for her flaws, not one that accentuates her strengths.

Oh well, i don't really have seconds, since i main Samus/Falcon/Sonic, can't decide since they split the matches, and i really was just hoping to get a good secondary.
Seems Toon Link is the best option?