sHell's Wario Guide*UPDATED*AUG17 More Matchup changes

[NoobCake]

HAHA! Should be like your main guys.

Wario: What a bunch of losers!!!

...What? What the hell are you trying to say here?

Sorry, I honestly don't understand.

 

[rayecho]

Not to sure if anyone new this, or if it's even in this thread, but Wario can do dair to upair and it will register as a combo on DDD. After the upair hits, DDD will usually air dodge and can easily be followed by and upsmash.

 

[Al_Di_Medola]

HEY!
check this out. If DDD or Kirby tries to suck you up, open your mouth, and you will eat them instead!

 

[RandomLax]

Nice Guide Shell ,Thats why youre my hero when it comes to Warios

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

If you are facing a great Snake, be careful not to get grabbed at high percents. He can use the grab release to bait you into a uptilt.

 

[Blue sHell]

Updated character matchups a bit according to the new advances vs Wario, lol. Playing "don't get grabbed" vs some of the taller people is playing them just like you would normally, but with ALOT less fsmash to leave yourself less open.

PS: Smashbros_7 I haven't done anything to you. Is there really a reason to hate me? Why because I don't update this every waking second? I'm tired of being nice to you, just go away and cry into your Earthbound sheet covers like the little pathetic boy you're clearly coming off as.

I'm sorry but I can't just stand here and let you continue taking blows at me.

 

[exidid]

Smashbros_7 is a douchbag. He is like that in all the boards ;-)

I hope my friends never use a tall character >:3


I still luv Snake

 

[LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME]

Wow this is helping me out alot, great guide!

 

[Smashbros_7]

From my knowledge, I know this works on other Warios, Lucas, Falco, Fox, and Wolf. If Wario just jabs away at the enemy from grab, right afterward if they break free they will be let free but they will still be in reach for another grab or a fsmash. It's extremely unexpected. They could still spotdodge or sideroll but it could be very easily anticipated. This just basically put your opponent in a situation where they are forced to react really quickly with only limited choices, if you predict the right one you could nail a kill or extend your combo. And remember that each grabjab is considered a different move so you are also refreshing your other moves from being stale. Ten grabjabs will refresh all your moves, period.

Ness and Lucas cannot escape a fsmash after grabhits. It's sad. Poor Earthbound.


Grab release to fsmash doesn't work like some had anticipated but overall even if you're overly aggresive on edgegaurds.

stop being fumb. Fix your mistake. Also, if Grab release on Nsss is absolutely broken, then why is it that much of a threat against DDD and Marth. Your kinda of biased dude. DDD should be 8-2, and Marth 3-7.
Besides the grab release, Wario doesn't have much on Ness.

Also, more characters can grab release Wario. DK, ZSS, anyone remotely tall. DO your search.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Updated character matchups a bit according to the new advances vs Wario, lol. Playing "don't get grabbed" vs some of the taller people is playing them just like you would normally, but with ALOT less fsmash to leave yourself less open.

PS: Smashbros_7 I haven't done anything to you. Is there really a reason to hate me? Why because I don't update this every waking second? I'm tired of being nice to you, just go away and cry into your Earthbound sheet covers like the little pathetic boy you're clearly coming off as.

I'm sorry but I can't just stand here and let you continue taking blows at me.

Plenty, your biased annoying and dumb. I don't have EB covers. But your homosexual attraction to Wario might lead to more than just bedsheets of Wario in your room. Naked Wario pics anyone?

 

[Blue sHell]

stop being fumb. Fix your mistake. Also, if Grab release on Nsss is absolutely broken, then why is it that much of a threat against DDD and Marth. Your kinda of biased dude. DDD should be 8-2, and Marth 3-7.
Besides the grab release, Wario doesn't have much on Ness.

Also, more characters can grab release Wario. DK, ZSS, anyone remotely tall. DO your search.

Lol.... I know it works on those characters but YOU clearly don't know how to play Wario if getting grabbed by those characters is common. I changed the matchups that Wario actually has difficulty not getting grabbed in. All the others I took into account too.

And do you see how big my guide is? I fixed the Lucas part on the matchup section but I missed out on one other section I hadn't touched in months. But of course your anal little boy self probabaly read through the whole thing tons of times just to prove me wrong. IT WAS JUST ONE SENTENCE! Jesus, get the hell out of my topic already kid. Really, all your doing is being flat out nasty to everyone. Stop ****ing posting in my guide if all you have to say is crap like that meaningless double post you just made.

 

[PhantomX]

STFU Shell, we all know you fap to Wario, don't deny it!

 

[Blue sHell]

I've cut down though

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

lol! Win post above.

 

[NoobCake]

I've cut down though

It's okay Blue sHell, we all do it.

 

[Ace55]

At higher percent (meaning 60 or so) anyone can get out of the stronger hit of Upsmash by simply holding up. It's a pretty crappy move anyway but did anybody know it was THAT simple to get out of?

 

[Popertop]

Yeah, it's pretty bad.
Fortunately, most people don't do anything about it.
And you're still relatively safe if they do manage to smash out of it as you have enough time to shield or spotdodge IIRC.

 

[Ace55]

Yeah, it's pretty bad.
Fortunately, most people don't do anything about it.
And you're still relatively safe if they do manage to smash out of it as you have enough time to shield or spotdodge IIRC.

I'm gonna have too look more into Smash DI in Brawl, just holding a direction while in a multihit attack seems to work just as well.

 

[PhantomX]

@Ace

No it doesn't... you can't escape Pikachu's downsmash with regular DI, you need Smash DI, you can also survive many moves for a bit longer with smash DI. I've survived a grab release uptilt from snake at 135 (and it was fresh) by smash DI ing with both the control stick and the c stick.

 

[Ace55]

No it doesn't... you can't escape Pikachu's downsmash with regular DI, you need Smash DI

I knew this, but Wario's attacks don't have that 'suck you in' mechanic that some other multihit attacks seem to have.

Well smash DI isn't necessary at all to escape full jump dair for MK (or anyone of his height for that matter), if you hit him while he's grounded all they have to do is push down, and they're out (prepare to be uptilted).

Regular DI seems to have a lot of effect when in Wario dair or upsmash. People have tried smash DIing out of my dair (sideways I think), but because you can steer it so well, that seems pretty much useless. Don't know what would happen if someone would smash DI it perfectly (if that's even humanly possible) up or down though.

 

[Smashbros_7]

Lol.... I know it works on those characters but YOU clearly don't know how to play Wario if getting grabbed by those characters is common. I changed the matchups that Wario actually has difficulty not getting grabbed in. All the others I took into account too.

And do you see how big my guide is? I fixed the Lucas part on the matchup section but I missed out on one other section I hadn't touched in months. But of course your anal little boy self probabaly read through the whole thing tons of times just to prove me wrong. IT WAS JUST ONE SENTENCE! Jesus, get the hell out of my topic already kid. Really, all your doing is being flat out nasty to everyone. Stop ****ing posting in my guide if all you have to say is crap like that meaningless double post you just made.

Crap? IOm saying common sense.
I played a Zelda user who abused this grab release, I lost. Zelda Fair deadly when landed.
The thing is, your guide has Wario listed as an advantage over 80% of the roster. Trust me, it's biased. Why don't we try some truth telling session. Trust me it will help.

Ness vs Wario. 7-3 over grab release
Marth vs Wario. 6-4.
Zelda vs Wario. 5-5

With Ness, all you did was GRAB RELEASE BROKEN, 7-4 BROKEN LOLZ!
But when it's your main in trouble, you totally change the subject.
Marth has the SLIGHT advantage, oh and he has the Grab release on Wario. (your words)
But Who's grab release is better? Marth's or Wario. A simple Fsmash from Wario, or a tipper Fsmash from Marth? Decisions...

Zelda vs Wario is easy. Lightning kick kills early, and any cro-magnon can see that the matchup isn't a perfect 50-50. Again, biased.

Your good Blushell, really good. But seriously, your an idiot in the metagame and need more experience here.

 

[Smashbros_7]

PS: Blueshell, I went to Ebay and looked for those EB covers. Luckily they were cheap. So I bought them. Unfortunately, I didn't find any Wario porn for you. I know how much you dig your sexy beast.

 

[Ace55]

 

[Goodstyle]

Lol. Anyway, In a way I agree with Smashbros_7. he may be an ***, but he has a point. I play Ness here and then, and having him at 7-3 against Wario is a bit much. (grab release isn't THAT broken) I agree with most of your matchups blushell, I play a good Marth, and I think it's 6-4 too. (he grab release Fsmashes) but with Ness, I think it should be the same. 6-4. The Ness I play is wicked. (I don't Fsmash grab release unless my friend needs a bigger challenge.)

PS: Smashbros_7, ever hear of Karma? Stop being a jerk, and others won't be a jerk towards, and they might actually LISTEN.

 

[Blue sHell]

LameName_7, YOU obviously don't know about Wario's metagame if you think Wario can't play a disgusting "dont get grabbed". If Wario chooses he doesnt have to do ANY ANNNNNNNNNNNYYYY ground attacks or unsafe approaches unless theres a clear opening(even forward smash). I'm not fishing stuff out of my *** when I say its hard for most characters to grab Wario on a regular basis. Especially if the Wario is at high %s and will be even more wary of getting grabbed.

And Goodstyle I actually totally agree with you. I'll change the Wario vs Ness to 6-4. No one has really questioned it too much and its why I left it that way for so long. Well except ISuckAtPickingNames_7, but he has as much say as a clot of dirt.


EDIT: Changed Ness Matchup description.(please read)

 

[DMG]

@Smashbros 7

Ness should stay at 7:3, grab release to Fsmash is broken against him. If he doesn't DI away from Wario, you get another grab in. If he does DI away from Wario, you still get a free Fsmash. If you want, you could focus your entire game on the grab to Fsmash, without using any other moves, and the matchup would still be close to 7:3.

Zelda vs Wario is pretty darn even, it's not that hard to avoid a grab from her. You can edgeguard her well, you can juggle her well cause she doesn't really have a good Downwards aerial, you **** her up close (just watch for Fsmash and Usmash or anything else with crazy priority), and her Din's fire is pretty close to useless here. All she really has is a lot of priority and once you get past that wall of priority, she is kinda meh at best.

Marth has a slight advantage. If you aren't playing it safe as Wario (shielding and air dodging a lot) then you are doing it wrong. He has a lot of moves that are punishable if they miss, so you gotta work on baiting him into something and then punishing him after wards. Wario kills a lot easier than Marth and it's not extremely hard to avoid a grab from Marth. He's not like Dedede.

Oh, and Blue sHell watches WarioWARE porn, not Wario porn. Sheez, all the cool kids know the difference.

*Watches Smashbros 7 giggle in delight from hearing this info and watches him jump into his Earthbound/Hello Kitteh bed.

Was the picture too much guys? :D

 

[Ace55]

@Smashbros 7
Oh, and Blue sHell watches WarioWARE porn, not Wario porn. Sheez, all the cool kids know the difference.

and more



@BluesHell

How about you add 3GOD's frame data to the move list? Seems like a shame to let it go to waste.

 

[DMG]

Lol just read the Ness matchup revision... I'm assuming that the only reason Wario's advantage is smaller against Ness now is cause Smashbros just stunk up the place more than any Waft ever could

Well the change is reasonable, Wario still has the advantage of course, and yeah it would be great if we added all of 3GOD's frame data to Wario's moveset.

 

[Blue sHell]

Was the picture too much guys? :D

No it defnitely was not too much.

Adding frame data now.

 

[Ace55]

Adding frame data now.

You the man, man.

 

[Goodstyle]

LameName_7, YOU obviously don't know about Wario's metagame if you think Wario can't play a disgusting "dont get grabbed". If Wario chooses he doesnt have to do ANY ANNNNNNNNNNNYYYY ground attacks or unsafe approaches unless theres a clear opening(even forward smash). I'm not fishing stuff out of my *** when I say its hard for most characters to grab Wario on a regular basis. Especially if the Wario is at high %s and will be even more wary of getting grabbed.

And Goodstyle I actually totally agree with you. I'll change the Wario vs Ness to 6-4. No one has really questioned it too much and its why I left it that way for so long. Well except ISuckAtPickingNames_7, but he has as much say as a clot of dirt.


EDIT: Changed Ness Matchup description.(please read)

If thats okay, I can describe the matchup.

Okay, Ness vs Wario.

Wario and Ness are both aerial fighters. Both have extremely good aerials. Wario's air movement is in a league above Ness, (Ness has pretty decent air movement) Both are also difficult to grab with proper spacing. Me and my friend usually get off 2 or 4 grabs in a match, 7 if Im lucky. The grab release Fsmash is useful on Ness, but not amazing. If a Ness grabs you, it can be death (normally, not some bull **** glitch) Ness has powerful backthrow that kills at 120-130%. On the ground, Ness moves have more range. My friend uses a technique known as PK jump and B sticking.

Setting B specials C-stick allows Ness to use PK fire and retreat, or rise high into the air. It's can be a pain to approach when you get trapped in a PK Fire.

Both are decent on the ground. Our main man Wario has that legendary Fsmash. Ness smashes are damage racking, and are more defensives. (Yo-yo's, Upsmash/Downsmash)
I don't care what anyone says, Ness Fsmash sucks. It's garbage unless Ness traps you with PK fire. (heavies like Wario get trapped slightly longer) Wario's and Ness forward tilts are pretty useful in this matchup. Wario for the strength (if you have decayed the Fsmash) and Ness for the speed and damage. PK Thunder is also dangerous for Wario.

Not for gimping, but for PK Thunder cannon ball. Wario gets trapped in it easier (like all heavies) and when clashing in the air, if Ness PK Thunder's tail touches you (not the head) your stuck until you get hit by the cannon ball. It's powerful, just like the Wario waft, so they're even in terms of deadly moves.

Gimping Ness isn't easy or exactly hard. Just not something you would go for in this matchup. Most of the time you'll be in the air of the center stage, and if Ness or Wario are off-screen, their dead.

Remember, aerials are the Key. Ness can get you into an air combo footstool combo. (Down air, FOOTSTOOL, fast fall, Jab, jab, jab, jab, jab,) you'll know it when you see it.

I say the matchup is 6-4 or 40% Ness and 60% Wario. The grab release Fsmash isn't a titanic matchup changer either.

Ness pros: PK Fire and PK thunder tail whip is good heavies
Backthrow grab kills Wario decently, unlike really heavy heavies (DDD)
Great range aerials/ speed. He can pull of 2 aerials in one short hop.
Yo-yo's are a great defensive tool to stop the Wario onslaught. (for now)
PK Fire to bat is damaging
Ness is not a lightweight. Funny isn't? He's slightly lighter than Mario. Lol
PK Thunder canonball is deadly in a genius' hand


Wario pros:
Heavy is heavy. Ness killer bair takes more % to kill Wario
Grab release Fsmash
Aerials are great and speedy, good to attack and retreat.
Wario Waft counter balances the Cannon ball (in fact, it's better, despite the time limit)
Impossible to gimp his recovery
Possible to gimp Ness' recovery

A really fun matchup. Despite the grab, both players will enjoy facing a challenging character.

 

[DMG]

You forgot to mention that it is pretty easy to DI out of Ness's Fair, and that PK Jump is used more for recovery instead of an approach.

IDK about the matchup being 55:45 (generally considered neutral or even), I think Wario has a more noticeable advantage than that. Having a guaranteed Fsmash after each grab is pretty dangerous against Ness if you ask me. That, and Ness has trouble getting kills other than the Bthrow or the Bair, which seem harder to land than normal considering Wario is a mobile character. His PK fire is hard to land as well and it leaves Ness more vulnerable than he should be if he misses, which is likely. I think that if Ness had a faster Fsmash or if he had better kill options, that he would have it even against Wario.

Blue sHell, when you update the guide with Frame Data, are you gonna add some of our comments/opinions of the moves as well? I didn't know if you were gonna add some of our thoughts from that thread to here or if you were just gonna add the numbers and stick with the stuff you already have typed.

 

[Ace55]

If Ness doesn't have his second jump and you hover around him he's is practically dead, so I think you're not giving that enough weight. And to be honest I don't think Ness's canonball comes anywhere close to the waft in terms of actually landing it on you're opponent.

Perhaps edgeguarding Wario with neutral B when he's really forced to use up B is something that works better against Wario than others, but otherwise I don't see too many advantages.

 

[PhantomX]

I think Shell and the rest a yas need to wizen up an' reconize that Wario goes 10:0 with vs all charas.

 

[Goodstyle]

Yes, I guess so. I was pushed into saying 55-45 for my friend, but looking back, I won more matches.

6-4

 

[Blue sHell]

If you want, you could focus your entire game on the grab to Fsmash, without using any other moves

I've actually done this to a Ness just to prove a point. But then again the Ness wasn't that good. Regardless though, Ness has to do ground attacks every once and a while. His "don't get grabbed" isnt foolproof.

Now lets all fap it to 3GOD's frame data that I just added.

 

[Ace55]

Did you ever take a look at my stage discussion thread BluesHell? You're pretty much the Wario guru around here so any help would be much appreciated.

 

[System Failure 333]

I've been having so much difficulty snakedashing... anyone care to help me out with easy tips as to how to do it? I seem to not be getting it right and I'm sure that once I get it I'll be like: that was easy... I just need that little push lol

 

[Popertop]

It's way faster than Snake's. Almost 3 times as fast I think.
I was gonna make a video of the hand movements/ hand speed but I don't really have the stuff for it.

 

[NoobCake]

I've actually done this to a Ness just to prove a point. But then again the Ness wasn't that good. Regardless though, Ness has to do ground attacks every once and a while. His "don't get grabbed" isnt foolproof.

Now lets all fap it to 3GOD's frame data that I just added.

Dammit, even numbers related to Wario are sexy.