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Q&A Sheik Strategy & QnA

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brickman

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on a far more thread oriented note, I've been noticing a resurgence of sheiks taking on fox and doing okay. The play style is measured as hell. Lots of waiting, throwing out tilts and tech chase combos. Is this just me noticing it, or am I dumb. Probably the later, but what are peoples opinions on this as of late?
 
RaynEX

RaynEX

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brickman said:
on a far more thread oriented note, I've been noticing a resurgence of sheiks taking on fox and doing okay. The play style is measured as hell. Lots of waiting, throwing out tilts and tech chase combos. Is this just me noticing it, or am I dumb. Probably the later, but what are peoples opinions on this as of late?
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Its because alot of Foxes these days are dumb, mindless and randomly technical. trufax.

edit: and campy, really campy. oh and they're bad at being campy too.
 
DtJ Jungle

DtJ Jungle

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thats why you need to make your own thread...like mogwai..talking about the disadvantages of camping and how you are successful without using it
 
elvenarrow3000

elvenarrow3000

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Well Sheik doesn't combo Fox particularly well at lower damages because of his fall speed, so you pretty much have to tech chase. The match up isn't/wasn't really as bad as a Marth main might hope, so there's that too.
 
RaynEX

RaynEX

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all you need with Sheik vs. Fox is a full set of needles and a competent tech-chase game.

Needles, then grab, its over. I actually like Marth vs. Sheik...

in doubles. It feels like she isn't as gay as she normally is.
 
elvenarrow3000

elvenarrow3000

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Dammit RaynEX, don't SAY that! I need SOME hope of having a good matchup against Sheik.

Generally if I'm being tech chased as Fox, I just spam shine whenever I get up and hope it works. Or buffer spotdodges.
 
NeighborhoodP

NeighborhoodP

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needles are super predictable, if you're getting needle grabbed a lot you probably suck

harsh but true. sheik should get the balls off her punished if she's needling too much
 
DtJ Jungle

DtJ Jungle

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can someone point to some match where needle camping has ever worked? ive never seen it work. or seen any top tier sheiks do it..so why is it discussed so much?
 
NeighborhoodP

NeighborhoodP

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exactly. it's just theory smashing. try it in reality v anyone good and you'll get butt ****ed with the quickness
 
RaynEX

RaynEX

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NeighborhoodP said:
needles are super predictable, if you're getting needle grabbed a lot you probably suck

harsh but true. sheik should get the balls off her punished if she's needling too much
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I didn't say/mean needles THEN link to a grab.

I meant:

you hit with the needles so when you grab Fox you subtract the amount of tech-chase grabs you need to perform in order to rack up damage before a super combo.

edit: super run-on sentence.
 
RaynEX

RaynEX

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alright I'll try again.

Elven pointed out that Sheik can't do much from a grab at low percents. To combat this, you needle to do some damage. When you finally get around to grabbing, they'll already be close to 20%-ish or more if you hit with anything else, so all you'll need is one or two techchase grabs to start a combo. Whereas if you grabbed from 0 without needling you'd need alot more tech-chase grabs to start anything.

its not really a strategy or anything like that. Its common sense.

edit: maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. *shrug*
 
Cia

Cia

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I needle camp all the time. (especially against samus) it's not exclusive to needles like laser or missle camping, but it's about keeping your distance and abusing the needle cancels. But it does work.
 
NJzFinest

NJzFinest

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NeighborhoodP said:
needles are super predictable, if you're getting needle grabbed a lot you probably suck

harsh but true. sheik should get the balls off her punished if she's needling too much
Click to expand...
Laser cancel to SHFFL aerial + shine = super predictable but people still get hit >.>
 
elvenarrow3000

elvenarrow3000

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I dunno, needle cancel approaches are half of my approach when I play Sheik, the other half being jump cancel grabs. My approaches with Sheik are so limited =(
 
soap

soap

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junglefever6478 said:
can someone point to some match where needle camping has ever worked? ive never seen it work. or seen any top tier sheiks do it..so why is it discussed so much?
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NeighborhoodP said:
exactly. it's just theory smashing. try it in reality v anyone good and you'll get butt ****ed with the quickness
Click to expand...
RaynEX said:
alright I'll try again.

Elven pointed out that Sheik can't do much from a grab at low percents. To combat this, you needle to do some damage. When you finally get around to grabbing, they'll already be close to 20%-ish or more if you hit with anything else, so all you'll need is one or two techchase grabs to start a combo. Whereas if you grabbed from 0 without needling you'd need alot more tech-chase grabs to start anything.

its not really a strategy or anything like that. Its common sense.

edit: maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. *shrug*
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VaNz said:
I needle camp all the time. (especially against samus) it's not exclusive to needles like laser or missle camping, but it's about keeping your distance and abusing the needle cancels. But it does work.
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This is the only match i can recall where i sat back and shot alot of needles, im usually much too impatient and stupid to do such things, but it does work and is an easy way to mess up their dash dance game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cStX5rkCKYM&feature=channel_page

What raynex said was spot on. not only is it less techchasing u have to do but it makes your aerial approaches and dash attack hella safer as they cant just be autoCC shined.

P is correct that blatantly obvious needle cancel camping will get u ***** against a fast character like fox/falcon/marth.

VAnz is also right in that it does **** samus and like the rest of the cast cuz they dont have the magical ability to teleport under u in half a second and instantly destroy your spacing and u can really control alot of space this way.

pretty much as u can see in the match i learned that early on as i tried to platform camp he just got under the needles and ***** and i just switched to more effective standing needle fakeouts for early damage.

thats not to say that needle cancels are useless, what u do is a jumping charge, this will a. keep u from getting pegged with lasers as u r a moving target.

b. prevent them from rushing u provided u are spaced right cuz u now control the area from the farthest needle to yourself based on the fact that u can needle cancel into grab should they approach, which they prolly wont.

so u just hold the charge till u land and it will turn into a standing charge which u can now unload on them assuming they started shooting lasers and u gain like a net 11 damage or something. (this ***** falco too if u get their rhythym down in between lasers) or u just store and u just scored yourself a full charge for later use.

and u have infinite mixups such as holding the standing charge and they jump u store and u can now stalk their landing, add to the fact that u can store in the air fastfall waveland, aerial, doublejump away, dj waveland onto platforms away dj into another needle or pretty much anything, and needle cancels and whatever are pretty **** if u r sneaky.

But if u spam predictably u get ***** just like any other tactic, its not magically safe, neither are lasers, read that cactuar laser spacing theory, it ***** lasers
 
soap

soap

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NeighborhoodP said:
i really like how different your sheik is
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thanks dude, i drew from many sources, first i tried being drephen, then i tried being forward, now i just have my own weird little sheik

edit- wow, i was watching my match over and what kind of bull**** tech was that 0:57. never seen that before
 
NJzFinest

NJzFinest

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soap said:
wtf NJzfinest, i thought there were bugs crawling on my screen
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LOL, don't hate on the birds :p

Oh yeah, WTF @ YOU!!! Those vids were taken before SSBO, and when I saw your Sheik at that tourney, you were SDing and shiz.
 
soap

soap

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yes to all of the above

man i wonder how zhu feels about being continously comboed in everyones sig across the boards.

edit- felt like youtubing it again and i saw the wombo combo remix..... wtf ****
 
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