Guzzler Guzzler
Melee Elitist
You forgot to turn the timer on
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Official Sheik Match Video Critiquing Thread
- Thread starter Elyssa Xey Hexen
- Start date
Downsmash seems to be your 'panic' button for when Fox is nairing you. You should only use it to get Fox off you if you know that you won't get shined after since it eats you up. You dropped some really easy links (forward tilt -> fair, dash attack -> fair). Good tech chasing though I didn't see your buddy shine after their grab so we don't know if you did hit the grabs in time or not (tell him/her to do that!). At 1:52, you had a free edgehog - Anything would've worked (RNS bair, wavedash to ledge into rising nair, etc) but you didn't convert on a really easy edgehog opportunity and instead, opted for downsmash even though he didn't have a chance of illusion onto the stage. Sometimes you hit random forward smashes (tech errors I'm sure). At 2:10 you seem to have spotdodged Fox's grab - You should not downtilt him but rather, grab him and get your stuff going (remember how crucial the first 40% is in this matchup). Learn how to deal with hitstun after a shine so you can wavedash oos right after you shield his shine. You don't know your percents too well and let Fox get away too easily at higher percents - Sometimes you fair him to the right side at like 70% while you are both close to the left side of the stage - As a result, he doesn't get killed and the situation resets back to neutral when you could've kept juggling him for percent or hit him with lighter moves to keep him close to you so you can continue threatening with aerials/dash attack/grab. DI away from Fox's upthrow some more. Again, another edgehog opportunity at 4:15 but you just f-tilt'd him this time. You only seem to be using downsmash as an edgehog tool. More needles. More bair. More nair. They cover practically the entire stage and you can hit spacies anywhere with them. Watch out for spacies that CC your tilts at early %s, it can be really devastating. 6:17 ish you could've stuffed his full jump with some tilt. Kind of busy atm - might add some more things later but hopefully this is good enough for you.
Cantus
Smash Cadet
Thanks for all the helpful feedback! I do have a question about this part though. What could I have done more optimally here?
Given that you're in a bit of lag from the Sheik's up-B, you could wavedash back to grab the ledge and rising nair the moment he comes back up since Sheik's nair has an insane hitbox in its earliest few frames (not sure if you'll still have invincibility from the ledge by then though).
If you weren't in lag then stuff like wavedash back, drop then rising fair is fantastic too (though harder to perform).
Had you gotten that nair there, you would have only required to do some rinse and repeat bairs to have successfully gimped fox.
Last edited:
joejoe22802
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2005
- Messages
- 873
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmN-ZGpx_1o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aUsGOzQxvk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O60hNijQvJQ
Hey guys here's me against some foxes. In the first two, I'm playing really high caliber players that I feel really either knew the match up or knew me personally. I had such a hard time getting anything started in the neutral. Didn't know which risks to take and when my "safe" options were bad. Any tips would be helpful!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aUsGOzQxvk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O60hNijQvJQ
Hey guys here's me against some foxes. In the first two, I'm playing really high caliber players that I feel really either knew the match up or knew me personally. I had such a hard time getting anything started in the neutral. Didn't know which risks to take and when my "safe" options were bad. Any tips would be helpful!
SacaSuMoto
Smash Journeyman
I think you need to be willing to wait out your opponents more often from the other side of the stage.
Hax was very willing to dd camp you from the other side of the stage, waiting under the platforms. You just went up to the inside edge under platform got into a close encounter and he just punished your whiffed attacks or called you out on your running away baits. I really wanted you to throw needles to annoy him and force him to approach more.
Similar thing seemed to happen against Makise Kurisu. Except this time he was being more controlling of the outside edge platform, jumping and running around. This caused you to jump and throw tilts more often, out of panic? You should try waiting on the other side more, test their patience, charge some needles, and mix up your approach timings.
Against DanteFox, he did not have that kind of game plan. He was more willing to run at you, to escape from being in the corner. Which caused him to get hit by your stray tilts and stuff. In this set, he was way more scared of you than you were of him.
Last edited:
Local crew battle at a recent smashfest, been playing for about a month at this point, been to one tournament. I play both Marth and Sheik but didn't that day because my Marth was really off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgzXWX4QfYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw7tUzaH9_M
I show up in the first video starting at 4:50. All advice is appreciated.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgzXWX4QfYU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw7tUzaH9_M
I show up in the first video starting at 4:50. All advice is appreciated.
Last edited:
Guzzler Guzzler
Melee Elitist
You roll too much and throw out too many random attacks. You also need to work on your edge guards, for example one time I saw you just stand behind the ledge and watch your opponent recover. Sheik has too many options to edge guard to let something like this happen.
You mentioned you've only been playing for a month, I think right now you shouldn't worry about critiques. Instead you should spend a lot of time watching m2k's sheik on youtube. Maybe KK or Ice (not PAL though) as well. Try to emulate a lot of the things m2k does because all of the decisions he makes are really really solid. Also learn to reverse needle cancel.
Charlesz
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2007
- Messages
- 2,043
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=SYTzcBwbrL0
Need some advice against Link' projectiles and other aspects of my game. I didn't really want to post a winning match but this is the only footage I have.
Need some advice against Link' projectiles and other aspects of my game. I didn't really want to post a winning match but this is the only footage I have.
hello friends. ive never done this on the boards, but id appreciate some critique.
me vs hax
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_0WuhzkTSo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGNrFYO6GIU
me vs a friend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FHUJMI_SI4
sheik dittos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkaAwVsYaL4
me vs hax
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_0WuhzkTSo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGNrFYO6GIU
me vs a friend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FHUJMI_SI4
sheik dittos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkaAwVsYaL4
Guzzler Guzzler
Melee Elitist
oh god that stream layout again...
HodgyDot
Smash Apprentice
Okay so, i got my first match on stream this month. I had to play one of the top 5 players in Texas, so besides being completely outmatched i felt pretty bad about it afterwards. He gave me some tips but just wanted to see what the Sheik players might have to say.
Heero Yuy
#sweg
Care to comment on me on this match against my friend's Peach?
(P.S. Ignore the first match... I was playing terrible and I could even point out all of my mistakes.)
http://youtu.be/WY5PsVj6Q4w?t=4m18s
(P.S. Ignore the first match... I was playing terrible and I could even point out all of my mistakes.)
http://youtu.be/WY5PsVj6Q4w?t=4m18s
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2014
- Messages
- 559
@Hodgey
I am a beginner myself so take my advice with a grain of salt.
First off I'd like to say good job! Making it out of pools is great! And that edge guard must have felt really good!
Other than that you were basically out classed. Do not feel bad about that! You can compare it to you playing against someone who haven't played at all. You would steam roll them haha
In a matchup like that it is really hard not to get rushed down, but try and stay out of close combat more. Stay back, charge needles, avoid attacks and look for punishes, constantly. Let them chase you and capitalize on those punishes.
When you approach, on him waiting, do it with movement and not an attack.
If you wanna approach with an attack bair has great range (safest option). I also like dash back -> DA. Link tilts (tilts are godly) to that, preferrebly f-tilt -> fair.
As soon as you know the combo is not working out catch your ground in the middle of the stage asap and get your spacing dashing back or back roll.
Delete Fsmash from your arsenal like the commentators say. It's too situational to earn any of your attention at this point.
Also try and stay more grounded. Never try and appoach from say a double jump. I you wanna get off the ground, use platforms.
You seem to be able to wave land onto them, great. I dont know the correct name for it, but try a drop-fair/nair/bair from the platforms. Basically dropping throughand smashing C stick forward asap.
Another easy thing to learn is to fast fall consistantly. Try and fast fall on all of your jumps. This will emediatly boost your speed further.
Every time your sent into the air, by his attack, try and shield just before hitting the ground (tech). It will help your recovery speed alot.
This is all stuff I am working on myself and some if not all of it might seems obvious, so I am sorry if that was too basic for you.
A great learning tool is to try and teach others
I am a beginner myself so take my advice with a grain of salt.
First off I'd like to say good job! Making it out of pools is great! And that edge guard must have felt really good!
Other than that you were basically out classed. Do not feel bad about that! You can compare it to you playing against someone who haven't played at all. You would steam roll them haha
In a matchup like that it is really hard not to get rushed down, but try and stay out of close combat more. Stay back, charge needles, avoid attacks and look for punishes, constantly. Let them chase you and capitalize on those punishes.
When you approach, on him waiting, do it with movement and not an attack.
If you wanna approach with an attack bair has great range (safest option). I also like dash back -> DA. Link tilts (tilts are godly) to that, preferrebly f-tilt -> fair.
As soon as you know the combo is not working out catch your ground in the middle of the stage asap and get your spacing dashing back or back roll.
Delete Fsmash from your arsenal like the commentators say. It's too situational to earn any of your attention at this point.
Also try and stay more grounded. Never try and appoach from say a double jump. I you wanna get off the ground, use platforms.
You seem to be able to wave land onto them, great. I dont know the correct name for it, but try a drop-fair/nair/bair from the platforms. Basically dropping throughand smashing C stick forward asap.
Another easy thing to learn is to fast fall consistantly. Try and fast fall on all of your jumps. This will emediatly boost your speed further.
Every time your sent into the air, by his attack, try and shield just before hitting the ground (tech). It will help your recovery speed alot.
This is all stuff I am working on myself and some if not all of it might seems obvious, so I am sorry if that was too basic for you.
A great learning tool is to try and teach others
HodgyDot
Smash Apprentice
@Hodgey
I am a beginner myself so take my advice with a grain of salt.
First off I'd like to say good job! Making it out of pools is great! And that edge guard must have felt really good!
Other than that you were basically out classed. Do not feel bad about that! You can compare it to you playing against someone who haven't played at all. You would steam roll them haha
In a matchup like that it is really hard not to get rushed down, but try and stay out of close combat more. Stay back, charge needles, avoid attacks and look for punishes, constantly. Let them chase you and capitalize on those punishes.
When you approach, on him waiting, do it with movement and not an attack.
If you wanna approach with an attack bair has great range (safest option). I also like dash back -> DA. Link tilts (tilts are godly) to that, preferrebly f-tilt -> fair.
As soon as you know the combo is not working out catch your ground in the middle of the stage asap and get your spacing dashing back or back roll.
Delete Fsmash from your arsenal like the commentators say. It's too situational to earn any of your attention at this point.
Also try and stay more grounded. Never try and appoach from say a double jump. I you wanna get off the ground, use platforms.
You seem to be able to wave land onto them, great. I dont know the correct name for it, but try a drop-fair/nair/bair from the platforms. Basically dropping throughand smashing C stick forward asap.
Another easy thing to learn is to fast fall consistantly. Try and fast fall on all of your jumps. This will emediatly boost your speed further.
Every time your sent into the air, by his attack, try and shield just before hitting the ground (tech). It will help your recovery speed alot.
This is all stuff I am working on myself and some if not all of it might seems obvious, so I am sorry if that was too basic for you.
A great learning tool is to try and teach others
After asking for advice i realized i was really just out matched, Jake is extremely good and after that event he helped with the match up along with another good falco. Now its just up to me to improve and get better, thanks for the advice man!
straydoggywog
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2014
- Messages
- 559
Looking good. You can follow up well in your combos. And you got pretty good movement control.
I see a few things I'd practice and rely more on though (but I am not 100% sure on the Peach MU).
Sheik's main strength is her ground game. Her mobility on the ground is great, so I'd say work on your spacing.
Bait out approaches, punish them and tech chase until you can pop them into the air with a DA, Ftilt or Dtilt into Fair -> Edge Guarding.
Being on the ground brings up shielding. You should be shielding alot more, in close combat that is.
Know all your OOS options.
Grab, WD, spot dodge and Nair comes to mind (There might be more haha)
When the opponent is grounded stop approaching from the air altogether. Sheik's horizontal control in the air is not that great so you tend to commit with aerial approaches and get punished for it. If you really want to approach with an aerial, Bair is probably your best bet.
A few other tips:
Dont dash dance at all. (Easy to mess up and it doesnt provide much for you). Charge needles instead!
Incorporate (learn) wavelanding from ledge. (Quickest way to get back towards the centrer of the stage).
Stop UpB-ing onto the stage. (Insane landing lag so basically a free punish).
edit: spelling mistakes.
Last edited:
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
@StrayDoggy: I'd like to see you play more opponents because the Sheik vs Peach matchup is a bit slower and it felt like he didn't pressure you or scare you much. But I would say your best bet is to work on refining your game, execution and matchup knowledge.
On the execution, (as Trip stated) there were several times when you could have easily sweetspotted your up-b but either went through the ledge or landed on the stage and got punished unnecessarily (or even if you didn't get punished, a good player would be able to hit you during your poof landing lag).
As far as matchup knowledge is concerned, you started out the first game really defensive with needles. Actually, you need to be aggressive against Peach because her turnips are more powerful than your needles at long range and will cause lots of problems for you if you don't get in her face and force her to fight at close quarters.
To go beyond that on advice I need to see you against better opponents or at least in a different matchup. (Again, it didn't seem like the Peach player was quite on your level). Or if you want more Peach matchup tips I can go into that more definitely.
On the execution, (as Trip stated) there were several times when you could have easily sweetspotted your up-b but either went through the ledge or landed on the stage and got punished unnecessarily (or even if you didn't get punished, a good player would be able to hit you during your poof landing lag).
As far as matchup knowledge is concerned, you started out the first game really defensive with needles. Actually, you need to be aggressive against Peach because her turnips are more powerful than your needles at long range and will cause lots of problems for you if you don't get in her face and force her to fight at close quarters.
To go beyond that on advice I need to see you against better opponents or at least in a different matchup. (Again, it didn't seem like the Peach player was quite on your level). Or if you want more Peach matchup tips I can go into that more definitely.
Last edited:
straydoggywog
Smash Cadet
We plan on recording more, this was just the only one that survived unfortunately. I plan on getting more real soon. Thanks for the advice so far, it's really helpful.
straydoggywog
Smash Cadet
We planned on recording more, unfortunately, this is all that happened to be recorded. I'll be getting more soon. So far though the advice is really good, so thank you very much.
virtuososteve
Smash Apprentice
http://www.twitch.tv/azmeleecommunity/b/550612542
http://www.twitch.tv/azmeleecommunity/b/550602849
Just a local smashfest where I play on stream. On one of those after playing the puff I play Axe's Falco and Pikachu. Just looking for tips and awareness of bad habits that I am not seeing. Thanks everyone!!!
http://www.twitch.tv/azmeleecommunity/b/550602849
Just a local smashfest where I play on stream. On one of those after playing the puff I play Axe's Falco and Pikachu. Just looking for tips and awareness of bad habits that I am not seeing. Thanks everyone!!!
_Rappy_
Smash Rookie
Hey guys!
So, I'm a new Smasher from Germany and I've been playing for roughly 4.5 moths now. Im uploading a compilation of 3 matches which I recorded in Netplay with NVidia ShadowPlay. Unfortunately I had to sacrifice the beautiful HD quality in order to cut the videos with Windows Movie Maker (if anyone knows a video editor which does not compress my .mp4s so they look like **** please let me know).
There are 3 matches vs 3 player: 1 that I win, 1 that I lose and 1 which is pretty close.
(maybe I'll also upload matches where i get thrashed by a guy I could never beat yet tomorrow or so).
Video: /watch?v=LGH5NdjWNbc&list=UUY56HoVudTqxTmpbtBGHFrQ
EDIT: I have to remove the first part of the link because I'm not allowed to post links yet.
I am really thankful for every critique I get and hope that I'll improve! Also a huge thank you to justZ, Jonte and SNK from Netplay!
If you wanna play me on Netplay hit me up (Tag = Rappy).
Thanks alot guys!
So, I'm a new Smasher from Germany and I've been playing for roughly 4.5 moths now. Im uploading a compilation of 3 matches which I recorded in Netplay with NVidia ShadowPlay. Unfortunately I had to sacrifice the beautiful HD quality in order to cut the videos with Windows Movie Maker (if anyone knows a video editor which does not compress my .mp4s so they look like **** please let me know).
There are 3 matches vs 3 player: 1 that I win, 1 that I lose and 1 which is pretty close.
(maybe I'll also upload matches where i get thrashed by a guy I could never beat yet tomorrow or so).
Video: /watch?v=LGH5NdjWNbc&list=UUY56HoVudTqxTmpbtBGHFrQ
EDIT: I have to remove the first part of the link because I'm not allowed to post links yet.
I am really thankful for every critique I get and hope that I'll improve! Also a huge thank you to justZ, Jonte and SNK from Netplay!
If you wanna play me on Netplay hit me up (Tag = Rappy).
Thanks alot guys!
M@v
Subarashii!
Hey guys, figure I finally post a video of my sheik here. This Sheik's roughly 7 months old (Made the full switch off of brawl to Melee in January). This is vs a Fox, which historically I've been pretty bad against, although I beat like 6 of them at the tourney this video is from, so I guess I'm finally getting better at it? Also, one thing I already know is I try to shield grab too much, so instead of asking you to point that out below, tell me this instead: A.Good options INSTEAD of going for the Shield grab B. WHEN is it safe to go for it on Fox (and in general too I guess) because its really hard to do it during his shield pressure (You will see I get punished a couple times for trying it ).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isfqvKpaPKs&index=7&list=PLJCuP6Odsy64OB7ts-Od3IO_LRgFgS2iP
).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isfqvKpaPKs&index=7&list=PLJCuP6Odsy64OB7ts-Od3IO_LRgFgS2iP
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2014
- Messages
- 559
@ M@v
Great game! It looked like alot of fun
I'd like to see you work on your edge guards alot. Aside from shooting needles at his upB you attempted a few, not so well timed, run off nairs. But for the vast majority of the time you let him come back for free, waiting center stage. As soon as you get that Fair, Bair or Back throw off, make sure you run to position youself for an effective edge guard.
Most of the time that means kncoking him back off with a Dsmash or run off Nair, then quickly grab the ledge -> ledge hop Bair or Sh needle run off Fair (There are tons of options with Sheik (my favourite part of her arsenal))
As for the shield grab, you seem to do them quite nicely honestly. But I dont think they are that great as an option while being shield pressured by fox. I'd probably go for Nair OOS or Dsmash to get him off me. I am no expert on the subject though, but fox has one of the most intense shield pressures in the game if not the very best, meaning its hard to find a punish window. Again I am not awfully experienced with the MU, so there might be an obvious window I am unaware of.
An option, you probably know already, for getting a grab, is the SH needle JC grab. For this to be effective you should condition your opponent to be affraid of you in the air by doing SHFF Fairs in neutral game. If you happen to get one of them in, you can get a grab off of that on very low percents too, but more importantly it will make him shield when you jump at him and in effect being able to shield stun him with the needle (-storm) and grab his shield.
Making a fox become affraid of you, Sheik, approaching from the air, can be a daunting task, but deffinatly possible
If you don't have it already you should get 20XX and really work hard on the grab tech chasing too.
Great game! It looked like alot of fun
I'd like to see you work on your edge guards alot. Aside from shooting needles at his upB you attempted a few, not so well timed, run off nairs. But for the vast majority of the time you let him come back for free, waiting center stage. As soon as you get that Fair, Bair or Back throw off, make sure you run to position youself for an effective edge guard.
Most of the time that means kncoking him back off with a Dsmash or run off Nair, then quickly grab the ledge -> ledge hop Bair or Sh needle run off Fair (There are tons of options with Sheik (my favourite part of her arsenal))
As for the shield grab, you seem to do them quite nicely honestly. But I dont think they are that great as an option while being shield pressured by fox. I'd probably go for Nair OOS or Dsmash to get him off me. I am no expert on the subject though, but fox has one of the most intense shield pressures in the game if not the very best, meaning its hard to find a punish window. Again I am not awfully experienced with the MU, so there might be an obvious window I am unaware of.
An option, you probably know already, for getting a grab, is the SH needle JC grab. For this to be effective you should condition your opponent to be affraid of you in the air by doing SHFF Fairs in neutral game. If you happen to get one of them in, you can get a grab off of that on very low percents too, but more importantly it will make him shield when you jump at him and in effect being able to shield stun him with the needle (-storm) and grab his shield.
Making a fox become affraid of you, Sheik, approaching from the air, can be a daunting task, but deffinatly possible
If you don't have it already you should get 20XX and really work hard on the grab tech chasing too.
Last edited:
Hey! I'd love some critique on my PAL sheik! Advice please!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgEuVTEdP1w Puff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi9MyYZDVUI (C.falcon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QwI48ag690 fox ganon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgEuVTEdP1w Puff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi9MyYZDVUI (C.falcon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QwI48ag690 fox ganon
DrLobster
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2014
- Messages
- 241
- NNID
- DrLobster
- 3DS FC
- 4699-5880-7408
Hey guys. Here's a video from a super local tourney that I attended recently. It was the only games/set that I lost of the night, and I ended up resetting the bracket and winning the tournament later on. But I figured I'd shoot this here to see peoples' opinions on what I did wrong (minus the obvious SDs) and what I did right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x7_VyaCtds&list=UU2tQWcVJzNKVDD4n8i6LLoQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x7_VyaCtds&list=UU2tQWcVJzNKVDD4n8i6LLoQ
Drephen
Smash Master
I was playing some scrub no name peach player but he somehow managed to beat me. Any advice? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHODXto1sww
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2014
- Messages
- 559
@dreffen
honestly you could use WD back more. It's such a safe option especially against noob peaches. Just wait for their whiffed forward smash WD back and punish with F-smash. WD away.
For a simple edge guard you can try using Sheik'd side B. Swing it with the control stick. It covers all options and sends them right into the abyss.
I'd say you can work on your reaction time. You got hit by way too many turnips bro
Other than that it seems like you have a solid foundation
Oh wait, before I forget.. D-smash more
EDIT: For any newcomers reading this, it was completely sarcastic and not a real critique.
Drephen is obviously a high level player most likely trying to show off
honestly you could use WD back more. It's such a safe option especially against noob peaches. Just wait for their whiffed forward smash WD back and punish with F-smash. WD away.
For a simple edge guard you can try using Sheik'd side B. Swing it with the control stick. It covers all options and sends them right into the abyss.
I'd say you can work on your reaction time. You got hit by way too many turnips bro
Other than that it seems like you have a solid foundation
Oh wait, before I forget.. D-smash more
EDIT: For any newcomers reading this, it was completely sarcastic and not a real critique.
Drephen is obviously a high level player most likely trying to show off
Last edited:
King Destro
Smash Cadet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0-CL3IbZhk&list=PLNaRrdCO2At-H_DWNKknOaGa9TxLpl27T&index=5
Hey everyone, here's my sheik from a local tourney last Friday. I really need critique because after watching it, I noticed how many dumb things I did but I'm not 100% sure what are good alternatives. I'm super unfamiliar to the fox matchup too (surprisingly) so pointers on that would help a lot too. Some things I noticed:
- I roll way too much
- I dash attack way too much
- I fsmash way too much
- I'm overly aggressive
- My edgeguard game sucks beefy d
- I do a predictable roll-behind -> down smash
Any pointers are appreciated. Thanks!
Hey everyone, here's my sheik from a local tourney last Friday. I really need critique because after watching it, I noticed how many dumb things I did but I'm not 100% sure what are good alternatives. I'm super unfamiliar to the fox matchup too (surprisingly) so pointers on that would help a lot too. Some things I noticed:
- I roll way too much
- I dash attack way too much
- I fsmash way too much
- I'm overly aggressive
- My edgeguard game sucks beefy d
- I do a predictable roll-behind -> down smash
Any pointers are appreciated. Thanks!
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2014
- Messages
- 559
@
King Destro
First of all I can't give you fox specific MU advice, this will be more of a general list of pointers.
You're doing well. You do alot of things nicely, namely being consistant with short hopping Fair and using D-Smash.
As for your own pointers, yes you dash attack alot but thats not a bad thing. It's a great option since it's hard to react to and easy to hit a punish with. I also won't say you are too aggressive. It's fine to run up to them like you do. I totally understand the habbit too, since you're used to follow up on your attacks by running up, but if your opponent isn't in stun, he can simly avoid most of all things you throw at him, so do it carefully.
You can try and use some other tools out of your run, when approaching from neutral.
A great tool is run up Shield (at least as a mix up). If you see them shield as you put yours up, you can shield grab. If they counter your "attack"(being the shield) with an attack of their own you shield it and you can also shield grab
Getting grabs with Sheik is very important and a reliable way of racking up damage, especially early on.
Make sure to hit them one or twice then down throw. It's a guaranteed knockdown which means they have to tech or not tech. Try and follow that tech with another grab or a dash attack.
An alternative to rushing him down is to bait him into approaching. Do not stand idle though. Throw needles at him standing and from a full jump, forcing him to approach.
I saw you used dash attack a few times when fox was at very low percents. It didn't knock him over and he could punish you for it.
To rack up the earliest damage use your needles, crouch cancel down smash and grabs.
When you got a few of those in you can start using your dash attack and tilts to pop him up for a Fair setup.
When ever you do send your opponent into the abyss I wanna see you start chargin your needles emediatly by holding B then pressing L or R to store them. Make that a true habbit.
Don't waste that needle storm by shooting at him as your first move, when he spawns. He knows you have those needles stored and will fear them.
That's a great tool as a mind game. "When will he shoot those needles at me?? :S"
As soon as you got those needles stored, make sure to try and evade him at all costs. When he is invincible (2 seconds) there is nothing you can do but run away.
You should obviously delete Fsmash from your arsenal asap.
I bet you don't press forward on your Cstick but actually try and do ftilt (I know that happened to me alot).
If you actually wanna smash him when hes right infront go for the down smash.
One fox MU thing I can tell you is DI'ing away when you get grabbed. He will most likely Uair you out of it (for the kill). And holding away will most likely save you
I hope that helped
King Destro
First of all I can't give you fox specific MU advice, this will be more of a general list of pointers.
You're doing well. You do alot of things nicely, namely being consistant with short hopping Fair and using D-Smash.
As for your own pointers, yes you dash attack alot but thats not a bad thing. It's a great option since it's hard to react to and easy to hit a punish with. I also won't say you are too aggressive. It's fine to run up to them like you do. I totally understand the habbit too, since you're used to follow up on your attacks by running up, but if your opponent isn't in stun, he can simly avoid most of all things you throw at him, so do it carefully.
You can try and use some other tools out of your run, when approaching from neutral.
A great tool is run up Shield (at least as a mix up). If you see them shield as you put yours up, you can shield grab. If they counter your "attack"(being the shield) with an attack of their own you shield it and you can also shield grab
Getting grabs with Sheik is very important and a reliable way of racking up damage, especially early on.
Make sure to hit them one or twice then down throw. It's a guaranteed knockdown which means they have to tech or not tech. Try and follow that tech with another grab or a dash attack.
An alternative to rushing him down is to bait him into approaching. Do not stand idle though. Throw needles at him standing and from a full jump, forcing him to approach.
I saw you used dash attack a few times when fox was at very low percents. It didn't knock him over and he could punish you for it.
To rack up the earliest damage use your needles, crouch cancel down smash and grabs.
When you got a few of those in you can start using your dash attack and tilts to pop him up for a Fair setup.
When ever you do send your opponent into the abyss I wanna see you start chargin your needles emediatly by holding B then pressing L or R to store them. Make that a true habbit.
Don't waste that needle storm by shooting at him as your first move, when he spawns. He knows you have those needles stored and will fear them.
That's a great tool as a mind game. "When will he shoot those needles at me?? :S"
As soon as you got those needles stored, make sure to try and evade him at all costs. When he is invincible (2 seconds) there is nothing you can do but run away.
You should obviously delete Fsmash from your arsenal asap.
I bet you don't press forward on your Cstick but actually try and do ftilt (I know that happened to me alot).
If you actually wanna smash him when hes right infront go for the down smash.
One fox MU thing I can tell you is DI'ing away when you get grabbed. He will most likely Uair you out of it (for the kill). And holding away will most likely save you
I hope that helped
King Destro
Smash Cadet
@
Scroll
Awesome, thank you so much! I have been asking for a lot of advice since that game and a lot of it seems to be relatively falling into the same places. I'll definitely try out a lot of the things you suggested, they definitely seem like a lot better options than what I was trying to do at first.
+1 to the accidental fsmash when I meant to f tilt. That's been a huge problem of mine for a while. I have been working on it A LOT since that game though and I'm way more consistent with the tilts already.
Scroll
Awesome, thank you so much! I have been asking for a lot of advice since that game and a lot of it seems to be relatively falling into the same places. I'll definitely try out a lot of the things you suggested, they definitely seem like a lot better options than what I was trying to do at first.
+1 to the accidental fsmash when I meant to f tilt. That's been a huge problem of mine for a while. I have been working on it A LOT since that game though and I'm way more consistent with the tilts already.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2014
- Messages
- 559
Maybe you can answer me something. Stuff like this interest me, so bare with my stupid question@
Awesome, thank you so much! I have been asking for a lot of advice since that game and a lot of it seems to be relatively falling into the same places. I'll definitely try out a lot of the things you suggested, they definitely seem like a lot better options than what I was trying to do at first.
+1 to the accidental fsmash when I meant to f tilt. That's been a huge problem of mine for a while. I have been working on it A LOT since that game though and I'm way more consistent with the tilts already.
At 7:37 you come down with a Nair. Once you hit the ground you move forward in an irregular fashion. Can you describe what you did? Is it a simple fox trot?
I rewatched the match. I have some more stuff to say haha
I noticed you actually DI'ed his Up Throw, so thats good. You also started charging the needles after kills later on. So sorry for telling what you already know. Try and go for the needle charge every single time though (the needle storm is beast!*)
One thing you can do after you got the needle storm stored is run and grab the ledge (get your own invincibility). There are a few ways to grab the ledge quickly. One is the infamous RNC. Learn this tool asap, since it has a large amount of uses. Especially later on. So it's never too early to start practicing it.
If you choose to do so, you need to know how to get back to the center of the stage from the ledge safely though. I am working on this myself, so I can't give you any great ideas other than learning the infamous Shino Stall, to simply stalling the ledge. Well practicing all options you have from the ledge onto the stage can't hurt
Such as Ledge Dash (into Shield or grab or attack), Aerials, Ledge Roll, Ledge Attack etc.If you choose not to do so, then you need to move fast. Learn a few quick maneuvers across the stage to evade him.
You can practice evasion on your own. Set a CPU to level 9. Now run around the stage with him chasing you. For this to work you need to have Wavelanding and FF'ing down. That's it.
I bet you are looking for pointers on being more successful and playing better in neutral.
I wanna see you WD back more.
Walk or run towards him and WD back. Mixing that up with your dash attacks, FJ and SH needle, Run cancel D-Smash and other approaches will make him uncertain if your coming or not and he will have a harder time knowing what's coming, BUT:
You actually dont wanna initiate most fights. You must have heard this before. I feel like I need to mention this, since it's very important.
In neutral you wanna mix up your approaches so that most of them are actually trolls, baiting him to commit with attacks that wiff or shielding. You wanna time your attacks so they hit him right when his attack animation is over and he enters lag (punish). This is the safest way to get anything started. For this to work reliably, you need to keep yourself spaced and in control of your character, having every tool you got, ready at hand.
The best punish is your needlestorm* BEAST!. If that's used already you wanna go for your grab. There are a few variations on how to grab from a distance. Look those up and learn them. The most important one, if you ask me, is the Boost Grab. Another is the JC Grab. They are equally easy to learn and serve different purposes (One is slightly longer range and the other has a bit less lag (safer)).
I wanna see you get at least one successfull Down Throw tech chase. On every stock.
If you don't already do youself a favour and get 20XX hack pack and practice the tech chase on any cpu level. I personally use a lvl 1 fox. He will shine as soon as he can after the tech is over, so you'll know if you did the tech chase right.
Try and shield his attacks as much as you can. The worst thing that can happen when you shield is that he grabs you. You know how to handle grabs, so you got that under control. Obviously you wanna avoid getting grabbed as well, but you can't do everything perfect
Along with punishin, shielding his attack and grabbing him is the most reliable way a beginner can get grabs. You feel smart for doing so too hah. Be prepared though. If he spaces his attack well enough you won't be able to grab him everytime, therefore:
Know your OoS options. A really powerful one is Nair OoS. Another is WD OoS. Learn those two and use them in place of your rolling. Find what all the other options OoS are.
Rolling forward is generally a bad idea (its a long animation with alot of lag in the end, thus easy to punish) You were kinda lucky that roll forward D-Smash worked a few times. If anything you wanna use roll back to escape certain things. Try and avoid rolling forward.
I know that's alot of stuff to take in, so I am sorry for that.
I think that's all for now though. I might come back with more.
Also, if any of the terms I used doens't make sense ask and I shall explain.
I have edited this post multiple times. I hope that's alright
I also wanna excuse for the extreme wall of text this became. I am happy if it was even just a tiny bit helpful to you. It became more of a ramble than poiters on your match. I obviously need to work on my teaching skills '-'
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2014
- Messages
- 559
Aw man, I just can't stop.
If possible, avoid Up-B'ing onto the stage. It's literally the last priority you got.
From all of Sheik's moves it's the easiest one to punish.
Use it only to get to the ledge. On very rare occasions you can Up-B onto a platform, but never the stage.
On that note step one on learning how to edge guard with Sheik is grabbing the ledge. If you can time it right thus forcing your opponent to Up-B onto the stage it should be a free punish such as Ledge Dash Grab > Back Throw repeat. Or Ledge Hop Fair.
There are many many variations on how to Edge Guard with Sheik, all depending on MU and percentage, but a standard edge guard kill is Ledge Hop Bair Regrab og the deep Ledge Drop DJ Bair Up-B.
If possible, avoid Up-B'ing onto the stage. It's literally the last priority you got.
From all of Sheik's moves it's the easiest one to punish.
Use it only to get to the ledge. On very rare occasions you can Up-B onto a platform, but never the stage.
On that note step one on learning how to edge guard with Sheik is grabbing the ledge. If you can time it right thus forcing your opponent to Up-B onto the stage it should be a free punish such as Ledge Dash Grab > Back Throw repeat. Or Ledge Hop Fair.
There are many many variations on how to Edge Guard with Sheik, all depending on MU and percentage, but a standard edge guard kill is Ledge Hop Bair Regrab og the deep Ledge Drop DJ Bair Up-B.
Last edited:
King Destro
Smash Cadet
@
Scroll
I appreciate all the pointers! You definitely make a lot of solid points. Some stuff I definitely do out of habit or naivety, and some stuff I do cuz I usually clench up and freak out when I'm playing tournaments (probably from lack of knowledge of the high-skill moves and options). I'll definitely practice a lot of the stuff you suggested, and hopefully this Friday I'll be able to play competitively again and hopefully it'll go a little better!
As for the fox trot, that's definitely not an intentional thing. I think that's just from me stopping my sprint and then sprinting again just because I was trying to figure out how to approach the next situation.
Scroll
I appreciate all the pointers! You definitely make a lot of solid points. Some stuff I definitely do out of habit or naivety, and some stuff I do cuz I usually clench up and freak out when I'm playing tournaments (probably from lack of knowledge of the high-skill moves and options). I'll definitely practice a lot of the stuff you suggested, and hopefully this Friday I'll be able to play competitively again and hopefully it'll go a little better!
As for the fox trot, that's definitely not an intentional thing. I think that's just from me stopping my sprint and then sprinting again just because I was trying to figure out how to approach the next situation.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2014
- Messages
- 559
Thanks. That movement standed out for some reason. If you didn't do anything fancy it probably was just a fox trot.@
I appreciate all the pointers! You definitely make a lot of solid points. Some stuff I definitely do out of habit or naivety, and some stuff I do cuz I usually clench up and freak out when I'm playing tournaments (probably from lack of knowledge of the high-skill moves and options). I'll definitely practice a lot of the stuff you suggested, and hopefully this Friday I'll be able to play competitively again and hopefully it'll go a little better!
As for the fox trot, that's definitely not an intentional thing. I think that's just from me stopping my sprint and then sprinting again just because I was trying to figure out how to approach the next situation.
The next time you play at a tournament play by one simple and relaxing rule of thumb, that most likely will take away all your stress and emediatly improving your game: Start out overly evasive. Do not approach at all. Slowly build confidence and watch for openings.
Don't expect to improve over night. Also don't feel embarrased if you keep doing old habits. The fact that you do realize it was bad is the biggest step towards removing them thus improving.
Good luck! And make sure to post a video
Cantus
Smash Cadet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwsEn0EAuG4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzX9_KXDuJo
A couple of matches between a local Fox and I. Also looking for more general options to improve my game against space animals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzX9_KXDuJo
A couple of matches between a local Fox and I. Also looking for more general options to improve my game against space animals.
Last edited:
Jeffrey Taylor
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2014
- Messages
- 15
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAYInccmRqg&list=UUI4tmsRZPBwmtOKcw1S36WQ#t=5m14s
First time playing while being recorded so i figured id post it on smash boards and get some feed back.
First time playing while being recorded so i figured id post it on smash boards and get some feed back.
King Destro
Smash Cadet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT_na0-Djqk&index=2&list=PLNaRrdCO2At9pbM84Bo1sUJq7fJ-q3c9x
Round 2 of my critique vids. I'm playing my friend Ira in this one, and I have always had a horrible time dealing with his Falcon pressure. I focused a lot more on keeping a less aggressive and more opportunistic style than usual. It helped, but obviously not enough lol. Let me know if I'm improving.
P.S. @
Scroll
Round 2 of my critique vids. I'm playing my friend Ira in this one, and I have always had a horrible time dealing with his Falcon pressure. I focused a lot more on keeping a less aggressive and more opportunistic style than usual. It helped, but obviously not enough lol. Let me know if I'm improving.
P.S. @
Scroll
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2014
- Messages
- 559
Oh wow King Destro! Massive improvement on your neutral game and some sexy edge guards too! You look more in control of your character and making good decisions, getting lots of shield grabs and punishes with OoS options.
What I wanna see you do from now on is keep practicing tech skill. Moving fluently across platforms etc. working on SH consistantly. L-Cancels. And maybe add some flavour stuff like Wave Land off a platform and drop with a Bair.
I still wanna see the Down Throw tech chase.
And that you delete that Fsmash completely.
And that you really concider when to shoot that needle storm to make sure it hits.
From that I'd say keep doing this and keep improving on the same points.
Feel comfortable before trying to improve drastically further.
Then you can worry more about stuff like improving your DI further and MU specific things.
What I wanna see you do from now on is keep practicing tech skill. Moving fluently across platforms etc. working on SH consistantly. L-Cancels. And maybe add some flavour stuff like Wave Land off a platform and drop with a Bair.
I still wanna see the Down Throw tech chase.
And that you delete that Fsmash completely.
And that you really concider when to shoot that needle storm to make sure it hits.
From that I'd say keep doing this and keep improving on the same points.
Feel comfortable before trying to improve drastically further.
Then you can worry more about stuff like improving your DI further and MU specific things.