Sheik is nerfed....

[draigaran]

She is still just as fast and she hardly has any lag on any of her moves.

Her strength was nerfed like no other, though. If you hit with a fair in the air on Marth at around 90% he will go maybe a 20 feet forward, if that. It is no longer a kill move unless they are at very high percentages.

Got this info from this thread:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=140614

This is discouraging... but I will probably still try to main Sheik, just because she's my favorite character :D. Hopefully people will discover new ways to use Sheik (wall cling and tether look hawt :D)

 

[FlatSoda]

not saying she is nerfed or not, but overall in brawl it seems like all characters can last longer now at higher percentages.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

If you honestly didn't see this coming...

 

[Warlock*G]

I feel your pain. G-Dorf seemed to have been nerfed into Oblivion.

 

[draigaran]

If you honestly didn't see this coming...

Of course I did. Just a small glimmer of hope :b.

 

[Moon/Sun]

In all honesty who isn't? There's nothing to worry about

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

If you honestly didn't see this coming...

I'm actually glad... and sheik was my secondary!
now sheik actually needs to change into zelda to get KOs... and from what I'm hearing about zelda's lightning kick...

 

[RyokoYaksa]

What I did not see coming though, was a major increase in Transformation time between the two. What's the sense in that?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

What I did not see coming though, was a major increase in Transformation time between the two. What's the sense in that?

because now both are really good? and the transformation for ZSS and PT is long?

 

[Santini]

Why did they have to nerf the FAir? Why couldn't it have been the UAir, USmash, or anything but the FAir!

 

[draigaran]

Honestly, if there is little sense in transforming due to the huge amount of time it takes, why not just have Sheik and Zelda as two separate characters... ah well, Sheik still rocks.

 

[True Fool]

I am sooooo glad she was nerfed. I think the only character who was easier to play well with was Falco. I can pick Sheik again without pissing everyone off.

 

[Micahc]

It was pretty obvious her slap was gonna get nerfed, now we just have to see what other KO moves she has...

 

[Ztarfish]

Really? Of course her aerials have been nerfed. They were ridiculous in Melee, there is no way that Sakurai was going to make the same mistake twice, which is part of the reason I was not that indignant that Sheik was returning.

Aerials aren't combo friendly, she's a combo friendly character. Thus aerials don't equal her.

 

[blueriku]

What I did not see coming though, was a major increase in Transformation time between the two. What's the sense in that?

actually her transformation is like a second i seen it in some subspace vids it seems longer when going from zelda to sheik for some reason but anyways if you want to see the vid just look it up on youtube or let me know and ill post the links

 

[Luthien]

actually her transformation is like a second i seen it in some subspace vids it seems longer when going from zelda to sheik for some reason but anyways if you want to see the vid just look it up on youtube or let me know and ill post the links

What?! WHAT?!

Okay, so it takes a year for Zelda to change into Sheik, but it takes a second for Sheik to change into Zelda so she can change for recovery (I bet)?!

That's logic right there... post the links please, I would like to see despite myself.

 

[Kapusta.KO]

From what I've seen so far in videos, Sheik still looks deadly. I've seen the battle versus the primids somewhere near the Petey Piranha boss, and Sheik pretty much took out all the enemies with her smashes, her air attack still lethal. Also, the video with her fighting the 'invisible marios' makes her look killer too. No idea what people are talking about, but even if it is true, thats fine, lets put Zelda to use.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

From what I've seen so far in videos, Sheik still looks deadly. I've seen the battle versus the primids somewhere near the Petey Piranha boss, and Sheik pretty much took out all the enemies with her smashes, her air attack still lethal. Also, the video with her fighting the 'invisible marios' makes her look killer too. No idea what people are talking about, but even if it is true, thats fine, lets put Zelda to use.

Videos against Primids are not a reliable way at all to judge a character's power. Those enemies have HP, and when that is depleted, the lightest of attacks will KO them.

Invisible Marios are also handicapped.

 

[blueriku]

here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGzkqodfWtE
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zng57bUoz4 (this on is both to zelda then sheik again around 2:40)
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eAIofUYGj7Y ( just threw this in because its a glimpse of dark sheik its around 3:10)

 

[OoNoiRoO]

From playing her, she just seems a bit slower, and that's it. Oh and her Fair got nerfed hardcore. You can still combo two though, which is nice.

But yea, tilts are still sexy, and still pretty fast for Brawl.

 

[DeuceBlade]

All of sheiks brute force from her slap went to Zelda's already deadly heel. I don't understand the logic some times in smash..

 

[Habanero Pepper]

I'm surprised nobody's celebrating in awe that she, like everyone else I've seen, has no chain-grabs anymore.

 

[DuranBlack]

Bound to happen. But oh well.

 

[greenblob]

Aerials aren't combo friendly, she's a combo friendly character. Thus aerials don't equal her.

Wait... what?!?! Aerials=combos.

 

[PyroRyuken]

It's to be expected, I just don't want her to become horrible.

 

[Ztarfish]

Wait... what?!?! Aerials=combos.

Hm, how many aerial combos have you done? All of Sheik's aerials were intended for killing. Except maybe Dair. But seriously, use any aerials in a combo efficiently and I will take back my words.

 

[Yeroc]

The weak hits of Sheik's airs were amazing combo tools. One time I comboed a jab to ftilt, fulljump weak reverse bair, dj fair to needle edgeguard.

 

[Ztarfish]

The weak hits of Sheik's airs were amazing combo tools. One time I comboed a jab to ftilt, fulljump weak reverse bair, dj fair to needle edgeguard.

That would be exactly my point. They weakened her aerials so that she could use them for comboing. Before it was like combo only at low percents, at higher percents they'll mutilate you for some reason. Now it's combo at virtually any percent.

ok so maybe not exactly my point. But I was leading up to it shut up x.o

 

[Tristan_win]

Yeah I notice her Fair was nerfed greatly but now you can use it to combo! Just use sheiks bair, uair, and dair. Those still look intact (also her uair should be more effective now if it kept it’s old strength). I've also heard about other characters with for the most part have lots of lag for their fair but Sheik will mostly not. Are playing styles wont change too drastically.

Frankly the only compliant I have with sheik is how little her needles stun but with the greatly improved chain, and the fact Sheik has keep her speed I can look over this besides it look like theirs enough to still needle storm.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

She needs some move with good knockback that allows a transform into Zelda at reasonably high percent. I'm not really seeing such moves anywhere...

 

[Yuna]

I laugh in the face of all of the Sheik players of the world. She's so nerfed she'll be Low Tier now! I love it how Sakurai's idea of balance is to simply nerf all of the old Top Tiers into infinity (Kirby and Pikachu, anyone?) and not care about the rest of the characters being imbalanced.

This video reveals it all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmIkv9S0nwc

* Fair is next to useless. Very little knockback.
* Upair is useless. Much worse than Melee PAL Uair! At most, it's a move to combo off (uair to uair).
* Dthrow no longer has set knockback. No comboing off dthrow for you!
* Needles seem slower and more laggy.
* Backthrow has been seriously nerfed. No more backthrowing Sheik, edgehogging, getting up, backthrow.
* Jab no longer launches you! No more Jab to anything!
* Everyone's Up B seem to be better (longer reach). Sheik's looks the exact same. But then again, she's got the Chain now. Because everyone's so **** floaty, she'll survive longer as well.
* Dashattack is so sucky. She practically stops for a split-second before dashattacking. It seems slower, it's got less range and the knockback has been nerfed to Hell.
* All of her tilts seem to do more knockback... though it doesn't increase that much as the %s pile up. D-tilting Marth at 39% (after it connects)? Yeah, no combo off that. F-tilt at 149% (after it connects)? Almost no knockback (though still no combo for you!).
* Fsmash has very little knockback, at least the 2nd hit.

I laugh at your pain, Sheiks! Muahahahaha. Now excuse me while I enjoy my new probably-Top Tier Peach.

 

[draigaran]

It seems that her killing abilities has obviously decreased, however her speed will definitely be a major selling point. Her combo abilities seem to be in tact, and that video actually just convinces me that Marth's range is broken :\.

 

[Yuna]

It seems that her killing abilities has obviously decreased, however her speed will definitely be a major selling point. Her combo abilities seem to be in tact, and that video actually just convinces me that Marth's range is broken :\.

* What speed? There are characters faster and stronger than her. Speed without good comboability and KO-ability also means ****. Remember Pichu?
* What comboability? Her tilts have been nerfed so that it's harder to combo off them and even if you do combo off them, it's not like you can even combo into a KO-move. Her jab doesn't even launch (unless you have, like, 300% I presume) anymore.
* Marth's range seems to be slightly smaller than in Melee. It's not in any way "broken" (or at least more broken than in Melee). The fact is just that Sheik's been thoroughly nerfed. Look at all her moves when they hit. Reduced comboability and KO-ability, that is never good.
* Marth's tipper looks slightly weaker than in Melee.

 

[joeysmash]

well i mean she really honestly needed to be nerfed...

 

[DeuceBlade]

Who needs sheik when Zelda has that demonic heel kick

 

[draigaran]

There are also characters slower than her. Stronger, no doubt. But she has little lag compared to other characters, and that's what I meant by speed.

I said broken but I really meant... extremely advantageous, I suppose. Anyone with a disjointed hitbox will have that advantage, and Marth definitely has a larger disjointed hitbox than most of the cast with swords, for example Link or MK.

Comboability is refering to Sheik's tilts. Launches the opponent high enough to get in an uair or another tilt. It's always possible that the player in the vid did not combo effectively because of the new game physics. However, Sheik's absolute comboability is of course nerfed because of her lack of killing moves.

 

[Pokec]

I laugh in the face of all of the Sheik players of the world. She's so nerfed she'll be Low Tier now! I love it how Sakurai's idea of balance is to simply nerf all of the old Top Tiers into infinity (Kirby and Pikachu, anyone?) and not care about the rest of the characters being imbalanced.

This video reveals it all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmIkv9S0nwc

* Fair is next to useless. Very little knockback.
* Upair is useless. Much worse than Melee PAL Uair! At most, it's a move to combo off (uair to uair).
* Dthrow no longer has set knockback. No comboing off dthrow for you!
* Needles seem slower and more laggy.
* Backthrow has been seriously nerfed. No more backthrowing Sheik, edgehogging, getting up, backthrow.
* Jab no longer launches you! No more Jab to anything!
* Everyone's Up B seem to be better (longer reach). Sheik's looks the exact same. But then again, she's got the Chain now. Because everyone's so **** floaty, she'll survive longer as well.
* Dashattack is so sucky. She practically stops for a split-second before dashattacking. It seems slower, it's got less range and the knockback has been nerfed to Hell.
* All of her tilts seem to do more knockback... though it doesn't increase that much as the %s pile up. D-tilting Marth at 39% (after it connects)? Yeah, no combo off that. F-tilt at 149% (after it connects)? Almost no knockback (though still no combo for you!).
* Fsmash has very little knockback, at least the 2nd hit.

I laugh at your pain, Sheiks! Muahahahaha. Now excuse me while I enjoy my new probably-Top Tier Peach.

thats why sheik's attached to zelda; ergo: lightning kick

 

[Yuna]

I'm surprised nobody's celebrating in awe that she, like everyone else I've seen, has no chain-grabs anymore.

We're not surprised. She didn't have any chaingrabs in PAL (though people could still chaingrab her).

The weak hits of Sheik's airs were amazing combo tools. One time I comboed a jab to ftilt, fulljump weak reverse bair, dj fair to needle edgeguard.

You cannot combo from fair to something else. You cannot combo from nair anything else (because of the long recovery time), you cannot combo from bair into anything else because of long recovery time and high enough knockback to prevent it unless you only got in a non-sweetspotted hit. Heck, you cannot combo from dair unless you land while doing it and if so, you've gotta hit with it right before landing because the horrendous un-L-cancellable lag will prevent you from comboing the opponent.

Remember, the opponent can still DI out of your combos and it's much easier now that there's tons of freeze frames.

So you can combo from uair. Yay.

thats why sheik's attached to zelda; ergo: lightning kick

Then why wasn't Zelda Top Tier in Melee? That's right, she's slow... and easy to kill. She's got Lightning Kick and that's pretty much all she has.

Comboability is refering to Sheik's tilts. Launches the opponent high enough to get in an uair or another tilt. It's always possible that the player in the vid did not combo effectively because of the new game physics. However, Sheik's absolute comboability is of course nerfed because of her lack of killing moves.

Study the video closely. Even at extremely low percentages, D-tilt launches you pretty high. With DI, it's impossible to combo even when they'reat 34% after the hit.

At "higher" percentages ("80%-ish"), they won't really fly that high, just high enough to prevent you from comboing them. The lag seems to be less as well as Marth could fair pretty fast out of getting tilted. DI, nair/fair/airdodge = No combo for you, Sheik!

Also, she still can't combo into anything that kills. That's her problem. So she can combo you to 120% with a few two-three-hit comboes. And? One tilt at 120% and you either won't be able to combo them or you'll get off an extremely weak aerial which won't actually kill them.

She's been thouroughly nerfed... robbed of pretty much everything that made her good. She might not be part of the new Low Tier, but I doubt she's gonna be very high up on the Tier List.

 

[draigaran]

She's been thouroughly nerfed... robbed of pretty much everything that made her good. She might not be part of the new Low Tier, but I doubt she's gonna be very high up on the Tier List.

Right now that seems pretty likely, but I'm hoping first impressions are deceiving. I play Sheik because I like the character, not the brokenness of her combos/chaingrabbing/smashes/aerials. Marth on the other hand, I play for his stupid huge disjointed hitbox

 

[Ztarfish]

I don't know what video's your watching, but from what I've seen yes, Sheik's been nerfed. But she's not impossible to play. Robbed of everything she had? She can still rack up damage like no other, and in case you haven't noticed her Usmash looks deadly no matter where you hit it from, and all of her specials seem to be buffed. Just because a character becomes harder to use effectively doesn't mean she's impossible to use.

@Pokec: Yes, and when Sheik users find out how hard it is to sweetspot with that thing they'll be sorely disappointed. (I'm not accusing you, as if I recall you used both Sheik and Zelda). I saw a video where Sheik couldn't kill anyone in a FFA and so she turned into Zelda, started spamming the lightning kick, and for the remainder of the video never connected.