Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

Do you think shantae can make it?

  • Yes, as a fighter

  • Yes, as a assist trophy

  • No, not as a assist trophy

  • No, not at all


Results are only viewable after voting.

LaBeteNoire

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Don't take this one seriously(maybe) but I think Sora(Kingdom Hearts) might not come to Smash Ultimate thanks to Disney Japan.


Your thoughts?
I don't really know why Disney of Japan would specifically be the ones against it, but if it were true it wouldn't bother me much. I know a lot of people like Sora, but I don't like Smash having characters who only pay lip service to Nintendo while having their main material specifically not on Nintendo consoles.
 

Paragon-Yoshi

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I've been saying it the moment people started spouting the "Zelda timeline" phrase back in, I believe Wind Waker? I'm thoroughly concinced this "timeline" nonsense was conceived because the creators have some strange psychological shame in acknowledging they hit the reset button from time to time.
Or maybe the endless timeline-debates among fans annoyed them so much, that they eventually decided to make one on their own, to finally shut them up?
Who knows?

It's a convoluted load of crap imo, and totally irrelevant to what makes the Zelda series so great.
Exactly.
Titles like "Twilight Princess" work much better on their own, than connected to another game.
And it's the best example on why the timeline is nonsense.

According to the timeline in Historia, TP Ganondorf was stopped before he could get into the Sacred Realm and obtain the Triforce of Power, right?
If that's the case, WHY DOES HE HAVE IT IN TWILIGHT PRINCESS?!
This contradiction kills it for me already.

The biggest reason I hate the "It's just a legend!" chestnut is Wind Waker. That game is such a perfect continuation of Ocarina of Time. We see that OoT/MM!Link left a lasting impression on his world. That moment when the grown Deku Tree sprout sees WW!Link, mistakes him from OoT/MM!Link and speaks old Hylian at him is one of my favorites in gaming.
I was more speaking about stand-alone games, like Twilight Princess or Breath of the Wild.
Which have no connection to other games in the series at all.
(Except for some Easter Egg's and cameo's.)

Of course, there are titles that are obviously sequels.
But other games in the series are either very loosely connected or not at all.
 
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GoldLiger

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It happened when Link went back to the past for the final time after the victory ending(child timeline) it caused the Triforce in the sacred realm to split back into 3(Power in Ganondorf, Wisdom in Zelda and Courage in Link). You can say that it is a consequence of the decision that the future Princess Zelda caused. The one from her time(which led to a Ganondorf freeing himself from the seal to a world with no hero) and the past(for which Ganondorf obtain the Triforce of Power).

Also saying the game has no connection to any game of the past when in BotW it mentions characters from Ocarina of Time(like Ruto and Nabooru). So yes the Zelda team does indeed take the timeline into account.
 

Paragon-Yoshi

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It happened when Link went back to the past for the final time after the victory ending(child timeline) it caused the Triforce in the sacred realm to split back into 3(Power in Ganondorf, Wisdom in Zelda and Courage in Link). You can say that it is a consequence of the decision that the future Princess Zelda caused. The one from her time(which led to a Ganondorf freeing himself from the seal to a world with no hero) and the past(for which Ganondorf obtain the Triforce of Power).
And where was that even remotely implied in the games? :ohwell:

In fact, wouldn't that render the ending of Ocarina of Time pointless?
Where the entire point was to prevent the disaster from happening again?

Also saying the game has no connection to any game of the past when in BotW it mentions characters from Ocarina of Time(like Ruto and Nabooru). So yes the Zelda team does indeed take the timeline into account.
Those are just Easter Eggs/Cameos.
There is nothing connecting BotW to other titles in the series, outside of shout-outs and references.
Except for Fi maybe...

(Also, where was Ruto mentioned in BotW? O_o
I know about Nabooru. But Ruto?)
 
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GoldLiger

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In Wind Waker we see how in it's history we have no Hero when Ganondorf was released(the fact that they mentioned Hero of Time means that he should still be alive when Ganondorf freed himself). Also that is just life sometimes. You make a decision thinking it is the right thing to do in the heat of the moment and later come to regret it. In BotW this happen when the King of Hyrule of 10,000 years past banish both technology and order the Shiekah back into hiding. His actions caused the birth of the Yiga clan.

In TP as you know the Ganondorf got that Triforce of Power yet the Sages didn't know why. They probably were not aware of what happened when it comes to time travel since Link traveled back before he even first met Princess Zelda. Ruto and Nabooru were both mentioned in the game and was tied to the naming of the Divine Beasts themselves(Vah Ruta after Ruto and Vah Naboris after Nabooru).

Saying nothing connects is false and you know it. I have been playing Zelda games since the first game on the NES. Also the fact that you mention Fi contradicts you previous sentence.

Ruto was mentioned on the tablet located around Zora Village. It mentions her being a Princess who awoke as a Sage and was celebrated by the Zora(in which one of the Divine Beasts Vah Ruta was named after).

EDIT: Also while MatPat's theory of the Downfall timeline being the history of Breath of the Wild due to Link's Hero of the Wild cap having a yellow like stripe on it was met with negative responses he was indeed correct in his choice. In Creating a Champion's Guide page 186 the finalized concept art for that outfit has a obvious YELLOW band on the cap. Heck it probably was changed by the modelers last minute like what happened with Sidon(page 114). His final design was Grey in color not red. The reason for the change? because he didn't stand out against the background.

So yes while people make fun of him he is indeed correct in that the Zelda team was mostly thinking(story wise) about the events of the Downfall Timeline and it's theme and used that for BotW's history.
 
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Paragon-Yoshi

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In Wind Waker we see how in it's history we have no Hero when Ganondorf was released(the fact that they mentioned Hero of Time means that he should still be alive when Ganondorf freed himself). Also that is just life sometimes. You make a decision thinking it is the right thing to do in the heat of the moment and later come to regret it. In BotW this happen when the King of Hyrule of 10,000 years past banish both technology and order the Shiekah back into hiding. His actions caused the birth of the Yiga clan.

In TP as you know the Ganondorf got that Triforce of Power yet the Sages didn't know why. They probably were not aware of what happened when it comes to time travel since Link traveled back before he even first met Princess Zelda. Ruto and Nabooru were both mentioned in the game and was tied to the naming of the Divine Beasts themselves(Vah Ruta after Ruto and Vah Naboris after Nabooru).

Saying nothing connects is false and you know it. I have been playing Zelda games since the first game on the NES. Also the fact that you mention Fi contradicts you previous sentence.

Ruto was mentioned on the tablet located around Zora Village. It mentions her being a Princess who awoke as a Sage and was celebrated by the Zora(in which one of the Divine Beasts Vah Ruta was named after).
In Twilight Princess, none of the events of OOT were ever mentioned.
It stood on its own. And again, it worked much better that way.

Wind Waker directly references the events of OOT at the beginning, so yes, it's a sorta sequel.
So the connections the game implies make sense.

Breath of the Wild however, stands on its own, again.
With none of its lore connecting to other games.
The only exceptions being Fi (though only her sound effect is heard) and the Easter Eggs and Cameos.

Easter Eggs and Cameos however are just that.
They are not meant to be taken that literal.
Kinda like the Stan Lee cameo's in the MCU movies.


As for Ruto and Nabooru: They are obvious references, yes.
But then again, it wouldn't be the first time in the series, where characters have the same name, yet are different entities.
The prime example being "Impa".
Each any every Impa in the series, is NOT the exact same character.
Same is true for both Link and Zelda.

Even in Majora's Mask, we see characters like Koume and Kotake returning as friendly characters.
But they're not the same Koume and Kotake from OOT.
 
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GoldLiger

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Nintendo themselves confirmed that the Hero's Shade is INDEED the Hero of Time(that skeleton that teaches you moves).

Dude you got to play BotW better if you are telling a long time Zelda fan who knows how to connect games with it's history that BotW is a stand alone title. Also again you went with "nothing but" argument which doesn't help your argument.

The only Easter Eggs found belong to the other two timelines(adult and child) as they have no story impact for BotW. Heck even ZELDA'S NAMING(as in the reason why the King named her Zelda) was told in game and that connects with a previous Zelda game(Zelda 2).

Also the Stan Lee stuff would make sense if say Iwata appeared in the game(although in BotW they do have an NPC that looks like Robin Williams who is a long time Zelda fan who famously named his own daughter after the Princess).

EDIT: Koume and Kotake in Majora's Mask story wise are ALTERNATE DIMENSION version of Hyrule's witches. Meaning those are not the same characters lore wise. Anju is not the Cucoo lady from OoT. The only person in OoT who makes a return in Majora's Mask was the Happy Mask Salesman(not counting Zelda as she appeared in a flashback scene).

EDIT(2): Impa in almost every game is a descendant of a previous one. You do know these games have a 100 to 10,000 years+ separation right?
 
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Paragon-Yoshi

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Hyrule Historia is as credible of a source for me, as the Pokedex is in Pokemon.
(You know, a Pokemon that dies if it stops hopping, according to the Pokedex. Yet that never happens in-game when it's KOed?)
So yeah, again, the Hero's Shade being the Hero of Time, I don't buy.

Just because Nintendo said it, doesn't mean I have to accept it.
Especially if the explanation they give is flawed.
Just like the entire Historia feeling like they just impulsively spat out the entire thing, because the fan debates got on their nerves or something.

I just go by the major lore the games give me, see cameos and references as nothing more than that, unless the game makes a major plot point out of it (like Wind Waker's Intro) and everything beyond that, is personal interpretation to me.


Also, why does all of this even matter?
Why do all the games have to connect with each other?
Aren't they good as they are, with or without connections?

Why are we getting offended again? oO

If you prefer the games all connecting with each other, you do you.

But me personally, I prefer only to connect them, when the games explicitly say it.
Otherwise, I think they should be left alone and be their own things.
It just works better that way, in my book.
 

meleebrawler

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What started all this Zelda continuity stuff? Wondering what game Skull Kid appeared in? :yoshi:
No, it was someone trying to argue why characters like Skull Kid or Midna have enough clout to be playable in Smash. Then someone else came along and proclaimed their hatred of any theorycraft not explicitly and officially described in games, which actually explains a lot about their prior behaviour regarding moveset speculating.

Look, it's just something that passes the time and is fun for fans to do, OK? No reason for anyone on either side to get all uppity, even if you disagree with how you see some things.
 

ChadTR

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I've always had the feeling that Nintendo didn't care at all about the continuity between the Zelda games, and were just making it up as it went to please the fans who are insistent on the matter. Therefore I largely ignore all the debates over it and I'm confident that if one day Nintendo just comes up with a story for a new Zelda game which would screw up the entire continuity as established so far, they would just roll along with it as long as it's cohesive in the context of that particular game and they like it.

For example, nobody has ever tried to establish a continuity between Final Fantasy games, because there's none (apart from internal subseries and the whole FFVII-FFX debate which already annoys me) and I generally feel like people should just relax a bit on all these matters.
 

Paragon-Yoshi

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I've always had the feeling that Nintendo didn't care at all about the continuity between the Zelda games, and were just making it up as it went to please the fans who are insistent on the matter. Therefore I largely ignore all the debates over it and I'm confident that if one day Nintendo just comes up with a story for a new Zelda game which would screw up the entire continuity as established so far, they would just roll along with it as long as it's cohesive in the context of that particular game and they like it.

For example, nobody has ever tried to establish a continuity between Final Fantasy games, because there's none (apart from internal subseries and the whole FFVII-FFX debate which already annoys me) and I generally feel like people should just relax a bit on all these matters.
Agreed.

And honestly, I'm just needlessly repeating myself on this matter.
So I will just leave this video here, that perfectly sums up my feelings on this matter.
And I'm done talking about this.

 

GoldLiger

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First, Pokemon =/= Zelda
Second, I never mentioned Hyrule Historia since I mentioned Creating a Champion's guide as a source of finalized concepts
Third, In TP The Hero's Shade confirms his identity as a previous Hero since we know TP Ganondorf is the same one as OoT Ganondorf
Fourth, You probably didn't read up on the lore to be able to connect games as their plenty of story evidence within each game.
Fifth, It might not matter to you personally be to me it does. Just like Shantae matters to the people here to be in Smash due to HISTORY with Nintendo
Sixth, I am the same of the you do you mentality but don't go around to other people stating the Timeline is BS. That isn't a "you do you" thing.

The games do say it. You just have to know where to look. Historians of our world didn't figure out about humanities past by just looking things at surface level.

If the world was that simple things would get boring rather quickly.

EDIT: Also using the video opinion of a user who doesn't even care enough to go deeper within the lore doesn't help.

Also remember this. I as a Zelda fan love the series that much like you all do love Shantae. I remember the discussions here about learning about her history(like who is her mom and dad) to crazy things like shipping. But I don't tell you guys that all that doesn't matter now do I?

Telling me the Zelda Timeline doesn't matter is the same as the trolls at Gamefaqs telling you guys that Shantae ****ing **** that doesn't have history to be in Smash Ultimate.

But like you said previously. You do you but don't try and change what we like or misinform people about the Zelda Timeline as a whole.
 
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Jorichi

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Came here to share my enthousiasm for the Funko Pop announcement, had to check twice if I was in the right topic... >.<

Anyways, not a massive fun of Funko either, but I think they're cute for characters with unique enough designs. Shantae definitely works for this since her design is still very recognizable in such a deformed style. Only other Funko I have is Hatsune Miku and she's held up by her pigtails, was hoping they'd do something like that for Shantae so she wouldn't need a stand. But I really like the pose they went for so I don't mind the stand XD
Definitely picking one up if I can manage to find it here somewhere... importing is always such a pain for me, sadly.
Fingers crossed that more characters from Shantae or even other WayForward titles get some love and attention like this.

I have taken a bit of a step back from speculating and destracting myself with drawing, helped time move faster :p
Group Genies 50%.png

Finished this a while ago though XD
Any new developements on Shantae's case for Smash that I might have missed?
Heard rumors of a Nindies coming in March I believe? Wonder if WayForward will finally put something in there, I'd love to see it happen!
 

RetrogamerMax

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The dream is real bois! Really, this is more than a sign Shantae has a overwhelming fanbase that wants her in Smash. People who still don't see this have to be delusional. But hey, I guess delusionality comes with hatred doesn't it?

Wondering what game Skull Kid appeared in? :yoshi:
Mainline wise? Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, and Twilight Princess.

Spin off wise? Hyrule Warriors.

Crossover wise? In Smash 4 and Ultimate as an Assist Trophy.
 
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GoldLiger

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Well now that I have calm down. Another possible Smash candidate's trilogy is now on sale 50% off. Has something in common with Shantae.

Can you guess who I am talking about?
 

SoupCanMafia

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Unfortunately for the Sora men, he's likely not going to make it. Disney vetoed the decision.

Actually, a slight redaction: This might simply be a speculation or a full-blown rumor. If it is true, however, it can kill Sora's chances entirely.

 
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psb123

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*sigh* I apologize for the vent, but sometimes when the ill-informed act ignorant, I need to hear people be reasonable to calm me down.

For context, I was watching a stream of Pirates Curse from a Youtube reviewer I follow and some of the things he and a member of his chat that tends to be overly negative irked me.

Mainly their labeling of a large portion of the Shantae fanbase as only liking the series as much as they do because of fanservice which I didn't appreciate. I mean yeah the games have their moments, but there are a lot of Shantae fans who like the series for so much more than that. So to hear a youtuber I respect stoop to this because he doesn't see why the series gets as much praise as it does was a tad upsetting.

And let's be real, fanservice isn't inherently a bad thing. Don't get me wrong there are more than a handful of cases where it's used in ways that are just BAD but come on. Sexual desires are a part of every human being. There's nothing wrong with liking a little bit of fanservice here or there.

Again, sorry for the vent. I just need to let it out and hear some actually reasonable thoughts on this.
 

Dukefire

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Hey, we do have things we just can't hold back at times. All of us has those moments.
Screenshot_20200206-234251_YouTube.jpg
 

psb123

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This seems either like an AlphaRad move, though I haven't watched his content in a long time, so I don't know his opinions on her at this moment.
While I won't reveal the name of the Youtuber in question. I will confirm that it is most certainly not Alpharad. And for what it's worth, I did talk to this youtuber about it and he apologized for it as it wasn't his intent to come off that way.
 

SoupCanMafia

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While I won't reveal the name of the Youtuber in question. I will confirm that it is most certainly not Alpharad. And for what it's worth, I did talk to this youtuber about it and he apologized for it as it wasn't his intent to come off that way.
I'm sorry about that. I was on-edge already because of something IRL that stressed me out and I basically went tone-deaf on my logic and reasoning portions. I hope you have a good night, I'm gonna be reporting myself.
 

psb123

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I'm sorry about that. I was on-edge already because of something IRL that stressed me out and I basically went tone-deaf on my logic and reasoning portions. I hope you have a good night, I'm gonna be reporting myself.
I have to admit I'm not really sure what you're apologizing about. In any case, sorry to hear you had something stressful happen IRL. Hope things get better soon.
 

Chaosmaster8753

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Part of why I think this might still be a long shot is if Nintendo would rather prioritize adding characters that aren't already in Smash Ultimate in some capacity. That and nothing so far indicating if they're willing to add characters represented as Spirits if the demand is high enough or something. In the end, this is just mere speculation.
 

Morning Raven

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Well now that I have calm down. Another possible Smash candidate's trilogy is now on sale 50% off. Has something in common with Shantae.

Can you guess who I am talking about?
Thank you for providing Zelda lore depth so I didn't have to explain the Zora monuments mention Ruto, among other things.

Also, I'm guessing Crash? I dont think Spyro has a trilogy thing yet in this era. How many games are in the Master Chief connection again?

Unfortunately for the Sora men, he's likely not going to make it. Disney vetoed the decision.

Actually, a slight redaction: This might simply be a speculation or a full-blown rumor. If it is true, however, it can kill Sora's chances entirely.

I heard something about it being the Disney of Japan branch instead if disney proper. Wouldn't that mess up on if he would be officially vetoed or not? I feel like we dont have enough info.

*sigh* I apologize for the vent, but sometimes when the ill-informed act ignorant, I need to hear people be reasonable to calm me down.

For context, I was watching a stream of Pirates Curse from a Youtube reviewer I follow and some of the things he and a member of his chat that tends to be overly negative irked me.

Mainly their labeling of a large portion of the Shantae fanbase as only liking the series as much as they do because of fanservice which I didn't appreciate. I mean yeah the games have their moments, but there are a lot of Shantae fans who like the series for so much more than that. So to hear a youtuber I respect stoop to this because he doesn't see why the series gets as much praise as it does was a tad upsetting.

And let's be real, fanservice isn't inherently a bad thing. Don't get me wrong there are more than a handful of cases where it's used in ways that are just BAD but come on. Sexual desires are a part of every human being. There's nothing wrong with liking a little bit of fanservice here or there.

Again, sorry for the vent. I just need to let it out and hear some actually reasonable thoughts on this.
You're fine. This is a problem I have quite often. It is hard to convince outsiders that there's depth to the games when there's a good vocal percentage that does prove them right in a way. It's why when my friend saw that the NSFW Shantae subreddit had a greater amount of followers than the normal one and expressed how depressing that is, I just nodded my head and said "trust me. I know". I just wish the actual discussion topics would receive some well deserved respect on the subreddit. Every fandom needs a fluff section and a r/truezelda de-fluffed section.

I'm sorry about that. I was on-edge already because of something IRL that stressed me out and I basically went tone-deaf on my logic and reasoning portions. I hope you have a good night, I'm gonna be reporting myself.
Not gonna lie, as coincidence as it is, there was a certain group of days, most notably mid last week, where everyone I knew, and everywhere I read, had some bad luck or drama that happened. A couple of them happening within the same hour or two as well.

Came here to share my enthousiasm for the Funko Pop announcement, had to check twice if I was in the right topic... >.<

Anyways, not a massive fun of Funko either, but I think they're cute for characters with unique enough designs. Shantae definitely works for this since her design is still very recognizable in such a deformed style. Only other Funko I have is Hatsune Miku and she's held up by her pigtails, was hoping they'd do something like that for Shantae so she wouldn't need a stand. But I really like the pose they went for so I don't mind the stand XD
Definitely picking one up if I can manage to find it here somewhere... importing is always such a pain for me, sadly.
Fingers crossed that more characters from Shantae or even other WayForward titles get some love and attention like this.

I have taken a bit of a step back from speculating and destracting myself with drawing, helped time move faster :p
View attachment 261341
Finished this a while ago though XD
Any new developements on Shantae's case for Smash that I might have missed?
Heard rumors of a Nindies coming in March I believe? Wonder if WayForward will finally put something in there, I'd love to see it happen!
Love the art. I havent seen many with all the half genies yet. (Though Fillin is totally Rotty).

The Funk pop is preordered on my end. My friend also flipped when she found out there will finally be a figure. I'm just happy to finally have official merch. Now if only I could find a car decal....
 

Paragon-Yoshi

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Part of why I think this might still be a long shot is if Nintendo would rather prioritize adding characters that aren't already in Smash Ultimate in some capacity. That and nothing so far indicating if they're willing to add characters represented as Spirits if the demand is high enough or something. In the end, this is just mere speculation.
People used to say the same thing about Trophies.
But see what happened in Smash 4.

Can we just wait and see and be open for anything, please?

Thank you for providing Zelda lore depth so I didn't have to explain the Zora monuments mention Ruto, among other things.
Can you not, with the gang up?

That conversation is over.
So what the heck? <<
 

WingedSupernova

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Lmao imagine being happy about a popular character possibly being deconfirmed just because you want fans to be sad. Everyone I've seen doing this (and those enabling them like Leffen) are pathetic.
 

GoldLiger

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Any way you were right on the matter of Spyro. His Reignited Trilogy on Switch is now 50% off on the Eshop($19.99USD).
 

Dukefire

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Here is a Shantae Artwork for Today
Artist: gpwlghr123
shantae___hall_of_magic_by_gpwlghr123_ddpx7eg-pre.jpg
 

RetrogamerMax

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Well now that I have calm down. Another possible Smash candidate's trilogy is now on sale 50% off. Has something in common with Shantae.

Can you guess who I am talking about?
Phoenix Wright? I don't know what would make him similar to Shantae if you're talking about him. Simon? He would make sense since him and Samus are pretty much Shantae's forefathers.

I don't personally think the Spyro thing has anything to do with the Smash speculation scene. We'll see him when we get there, but not at the immediate time proximity.
:facepalm: Stupid me, I wasn't even thinking about him.
 

Planet Cool

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People love to exaggerate the sex appeal of the Shantae series. The characters are cute, but (imo) they're too cartoony to be sexy. The games could probably get away with an E10+ rating.

Or maybe the endless timeline-debates among fans annoyed them so much, that they eventually decided to make one on their own, to finally shut them up?
Who knows?

Exactly.
Titles like "Twilight Princess" work much better on their own, than connected to another game.
And it's the best example on why the timeline is nonsense.
But there obviously is a timeline. There are connections everywhere. The fact that the Hyrule Historia is so shoddily assembled and makes far less sense than some fan-made timelines is beside the point.

As for Twilight Princess, I like to think that in the child timeline, OoT/MM!Link married Malon, which is why his descendant (TP!Link) is a ranch hand.
 

Dukefire

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
2,212
There is always a way people can start and/or continue an arguement even if the staement is as small compared to a pebble. Still, just do your best to believe on what your decisions feel best and ok.

Also, here is a shantae artwork for tonight.
Artist: LuckDLucky
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Dukefire

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
2,212
Is it confirmed or just having a lot of evidence that does make his chances low to none now?
 
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