Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[TOY the Gamer]

Why are we suddenly coming to the conclusion that Shantae will not be a DLC Fighter?

We're not even in Season 2 yet.
Heck, we don't even know how big Season 2 is.

So why throwing in the towel so early?!

Smaller series are normally given the Mii Costume treatment, and I'm sorry to say this... but Shantae IS a small series in comparison to the ones represented in the playable roster.

 

[RockOfMind]

I've dipped out of this forum for the most part and I haven't given up on Shantae. Not that I think she's likely or whatnot, it's just there's too many unknowns for me to throw all my chips on one single character. I'll be pretty happy probably for the most part for whoever we get though.

Sorry to hear about how bummed people are about waiting for the direct, but heck, I have a lot of patience so I don't really mind.

 

[M00NFIRE94]

I'm (kinda) in the same boat as RetrogamerMax. I've given up on seeing her as DLC just on the fact Shantae's not a big enough name for the Big N to consider "highly profitable" as a DLC Fighter. Fatman's speculation aside, I think we should all be expecting her either be a Mii Costume at most, or stay a Spirit at the very least.

You say she's not big enough but Sakurai said it didn't matter if the fighter was recognizable so some matter of hope there.

I can't even imagine how a Shantae Mii costume would look.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Smaller series are normally given the Mii Costume treatment, and I'm sorry to say this... but Shantae IS a small series in comparison to the ones represented in the playable roster.

By that logic, we wouldn't have gotten Terry Bogard...

 

[Dukefire]

Try to avoid going full panic mode.

Spoiler: Image

Still, as long DLC is going. The chances of fighter status isn't closed.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Try to avoid going full panic mode.

Spoiler: Image

View attachment 256724

Still, as long DLC is going. The chances of fighter status isn't closed.

you don't have to tell me that.
I'm perfectly composed and fine with whatever characters may come.

I'm not one of those (many) spiteful and entitled pricks, who think they can determine who is and isn't deserving to be in Smash.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I'm (kinda) in the same boat as RetrogamerMax. I've given up on seeing her as DLC just on the fact Shantae's not a big enough name for the Big N to consider "highly profitable" as a DLC Fighter. Fatman's speculation aside, I think we should all be expecting her either be a Mii Costume at most, or stay a Spirit at the very least.

Just remember this: "It's more important that a character is fun to play, not just being recognizable." - Masahiro Sakurai

Shantae embodies a fun character with insane moveset potential. Yes, I don't think she will be in Ultimate, but I think she will eventually get in someday maybe in Smash 6 or Smash 7.

 

[TOY the Gamer]

By that logic, we wouldn't have gotten Terry Bogard...

Boy, you have no idea how popular KoF is.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Boy, you have no idea how popular KoF is.

Was.
Last I checked SNK as a whole isn't so relevant anymore.
At the very least, Terry can't be a considered a big name.

And he isn't even the main character of KOF. (That'd be Kyo Kusanagi)
He's the main character of the Fatal Fury series, whole last game was from 1999.

 

[Biometal]

Yep. I came back at the wrong time. I'll just go get popcorn and keep quiet again until some actual SSS news happens.

Spoiler

 

[SimonferSmash]

I feel like Terry was chosen because Sakurai has a huge appreciation for both FF and KOF...not to mention SNK as a whole.

Not to mention Smash owes a lot to both as it serve as an influence for it's creation.

So while it's not as relevant as it once was, SNK still has a huge legacy and played a huge part in gaming history during the 90s.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

I feel like Terry was chosen because Sakurai has a huge appreciation for both FF and KOF...not to mention SNK as a whole.

Not to mention Smash owes a lot to both as it serve as an influence for it's creation.

So while it's not as relevant as it once was, SNK still has a huge legacy and played a huge part in gaming history during the 90s.

It still goes against his claim that only big names have a chance to get into Smash.
How he came to that conclusion, especially after what Sakurai said during the Terry presentation... I have no idea.

 

[Jorichi]

Just remember this: "It's more important that a character is fun to play, not just being recognizable." - Masahiro Sakurai

Shantae embodies a fun character with insane moveset potential. Yes, I don't think she will be in Ultimate, but I think she will eventually get in someday maybe in Smash 6 or Smash 7.

I also doubt they're as worried about how profitable a DLC would be, but rather fun and a refreshing entry in the game or even franchise as a whole. Think a bit past the 'profitability' of DLC, there's more factors that play into these things.
Shantae herself fits Smash like a glove. Even when you look at Sakurai's design etiquette, she passes with flying colors in every aspect. She's very consistently high up in ballot/poll results too. Sakurai doesn't see it as 'popularity' or 'indie', he just sees games.

I think it's mostly a matter of timing. Japan was only recently introduced to Shantae and we all know they seem to be somewhat reluctant on western characters due to the communication barrier it brings (but hey we got James at WF, right? Doesn't he know Japanese?).
I feel Sakurai would've needed to go out of his way to introduce himself to the world of Shantae if he wanted to add her. It just seems more likely to me that there are other characters that would've had an easier time getting in, because why would he randomly invest his time to check that purple-haired girl out? In other words, try to see it from his/their perspective, it's very different.

(I kinda like to humor the idea that Shantae's spirits/arena icon were added last minute because Sakurai started to play them to see what the hype around her was about and he ened up really liking it. Or that she was held as a possibility if negotiations for other fighters fell through. Wishful thinking)

This is what makes me think that the DLC after the fighters pass is Shantae's big chance though, plenty of time would have passed and we've shown that the support for Shantae wasn't a 'flavor of the month'. We're still left with a ton of unanswered questions from our speculation too. However, I'm not holding my breath. There's still plenty of other characters that could step in front of her.
I just want a fun character I connect with, so none of this will stop me from cheering her on.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Facts: Sakurai adds who he wantz.

If he really likes a franchise no matter how obscure said franchise may be, he will at some point try to get a character from that franchise in Smash especially if there's a character that's really unique.

 

[meleebrawler]

History has shown that Smash doesn't tend to save the "best" (always somewhat relative based on taste) for last in character reveals.

- The last non-secret character for Brawl was Olimar, by-and-large pretty expected but also not super hype as a result.
- The last DLC fighter for Smash 4 was Bayonetta, a popular series at the time with partial Nintendo exclusivity but not exactly mind-blowingly successful anywhere.
- Ultimate's base roster ended with the most obvious choice of an echo there was, a starter Pokemon chosen for no other reason other than wanting a true wrestler in the game, and a potted plant that arguably isn't even the most famous baddie in the Mario series.

In terms of third parties, Banjo & Kazooie could be seen as one of the most unprofitable to try springing for these days with their games being a distant memory and with no plans to bring them back, but the Smash audience was there for them regardless and that was enough, for Sakurai, Microsoft and Rare.

 

[ChadTR]

I wouldn't use Terry as an example of a small obscure character making it into Smash. The importance of SNK in video gaming history is HUGE. Where they are know isn't that relevant.

 

[TOY the Gamer]

I wouldn't use Terry as an example of a small obscure character making it into Smash. The importance of SNK in video gaming history is HUGE. Where they are know isn't that relevant.

I though the same thing Paragon did at first about him. After doing research on him and SNK, however, I discovered that they had a huge impact on early days of the gaming industry. I knew about SNK prior to Terry's reveal, but I only knew them for the NeoGeo ports popping up on the eShop and Mai (because I played Dead or Alive for a while a few years back).

The moment I saw Terry, I actually got really curious about him (because I had somehow never heard of him before that moment). Needless to say, he's a favorite of mine now.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

I wouldn't use Terry as an example of a small obscure character making it into Smash. The importance of SNK in video gaming history is HUGE. Where they are know isn't that relevant.

I didn't use Terry as an example of a small obscure character, but as a character who isn't a big name.
It is possible to be neither of those.

That you have a sizable following and made a big enough splash, yet are nowhere near the big leagues.

 

[Dukefire]

Banjo Kazooie had a impact on the gaming world during the golden days of Rare. Of course, he was forgetten years later and now came back into the spotlight after Sakurai and Microsoft discussion for Smash.

Which is one of the examples people might not see coming

 

[ChadTR]

This is all a question of where and when. In the 1990s, Oddworld games were big in Europe, and Abe was an iconic character. Not sure that was the case elsewhere. I wouldn't see him in Smash today (though I would like it), but back in the 1990s, in Europe, this wouldn't have been shocking. The rest of the world might have found that weird, though, even then and especially today.

Before Sonic, Sega's mascot was Alex Kidd. Who remembers him today, apart from retro gamers? Yet if he showed up in Smash, I would say "why that face everyone?" The guy was huge back then.

I wasn't "huh"'d at all by Terry. I think he's a central character in gaming history I was pleasantly surprised even to see him again, brought back good memories.

 

[MeteoRain]

(I kinda like to humor the idea that Shantae's spirits/arena icon were added last minute because Sakurai started to play them to see what the hype around her was about and he ened up really liking it. Or that she was held as a possibility if negotiations for other fighters fell through. Wishful thinking)

Not exactly this, but there's some other oddball thing I noticed concerning her spirit back within the first few days of playing Ultimate.

I'm waiting until the update on FP5 first then I'll explain. Call me crazy, let's just say if nothing happens involving Shantae in the entire Fighter Pass, things might be looking up.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Not exactly this, but there's some other oddball thing I noticed concerning her spirit back within the first few days of playing Ultimate.

I'm waiting until the update on FP5 first then I'll explain. Call me crazy, let's just say if nothing happens involving Shantae in the entire Fighter Pass, things might be looking up.

I'm really curious to hear what you saw going on with her Spirit. I'll patiently await to hear your story.

 

[zferolie]

wow... things happened here?

I will say Fatman may have heard things but I am of the belive no one at all knows who the 5th is. Sakurai and nintendo is super tight lipped about it. Heck no one knows who any of the remaining DLC are. I bet shantae, Geno, and more are coming for sure.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Banjo Kazooie had a impact on the gaming world during the golden days of Rare. Of course, he was forgetten years later and now came back into the spotlight after Sakurai and Microsoft discussion for Smash.

Which is one of the examples people might not see coming

This is all a question of where and when. In the 1990s, Oddworld games were big in Europe, and Abe was an iconic character. Not sure that was the case elsewhere. I wouldn't see him in Smash today (though I would like it), but back in the 1990s, in Europe, this wouldn't have been shocking. The rest of the world might have found that weird, though, even then and especially today.

Before Sonic, Sega's mascot was Alex Kidd. Who remembers him today, apart from retro gamers? Yet if he showed up in Smash, I would say "why that face everyone?" The guy was huge back then.

I wasn't "huh"'d at all by Terry. I think he's a central character in gaming history I was pleasantly surprised even to see him again, brought back good memories.

Well the entire point was to counter the argument of "Only Big Names can make it into Smash. And Shantae is too small."
And yet we already have a couple characters, than can't be considered Big Names.

So I'd say Shantae has a chance still.
And I don't get why some of you are randomly losing hope and now are trying to find arguments that compromise Shantae's chances.

 

[ChadTR]

If the whole point was to demonstrate that non-big names were able to make it in Smash, I think Bayonetta did prove it long ago. She doesn't feel like a critical character in gaming history to me.

And Terry's a big name

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

If the whole point was to demonstrate that non-big names were able to make it in Smash, I think Bayonetta did prove it long ago. She doesn't feel like a critical character in gaming history to me.

And Terry's a big name

Honestly, I've completely forgotten about her.

I still don't think I'd consider Terry a big name though.
Heard SNK was at the verge of bankruptcy...

 

[M00NFIRE94]

I'm really curious to hear what you saw going on with her Spirit. I'll patiently await to hear your story.

Not his theory but mine is finding it interesting Shantae and Risky are the only two spirits from her series. Shovel Knight has him, shield knight, plague knight, king knight and specter knight as spirits in Ultimate that would've made up a good chunk of his spirit board if he was DLC. Meanwhile no Bolo, Sky or Rotty? It wouldn't have been that hard to look them up and drag a JPEG image over. Even if this wasn't intentional, they have an opportunity now where they can put them in a spirit board along with Mimic, the Barons, the Pirate Master, etc..

 

[meleebrawler]

Not his theory but mine is finding it interesting Shantae and Risky are the only two spirits from her series. Shovel Knight has him, shield knight, plague knight, king knight and specter knight as spirits in Ultimate that would've made up a good chunk of his spirit board if he was DLC. Meanwhile no Bolo, Sky or Rotty? It wouldn't have been that hard to look them up and drag a JPEG image over. Even if this wasn't intentional, they have an opportunity now where they can put them in a spirit board along with Mimic, the Barons, the Pirate Master, etc..

There is the disclaimer that post pass fighters might not be bundled the same way. However...

What are the odds that we can get the full Wayforward suite of tracks and spirits instead of just Shantae, like with SNK? There was certainly no shortage of Fatal Fury material alone...

 

[Morning Raven]

Everything happens when I'm busy lol. At least I kept off long enough for a decent read. (Also scrapping my pkmn draft cuz irrelevant)

You're all worried about big names when Sakurai just said popularity isnt the only thing that matters? Or how we have Wii Fit Trainer and Duck Hunt in? Because those are relevant now. And Geno still has a cult following. And Ridly and Krool kept forging ahead, biding their time to get their characters.

You're supporting the character that spent her whole existence fighting to be recognized as a hero in the public's eyes, real and virtual. She's gone through way more than she deserves, without getting any credit and minimal praise. She whines for a second, then gets her spunk together to do what she thinks is right. Most often stopping pirates and helping her friends. She doesnt give up. And that's why we shouldn't either. We will dance through the danger, and gate keeping, to support our favorite half genie.




*ahem* too much anime recently

I know it was a fake, but I can't shake off the premise of that one Shantae leak. It was a dual reveal (fake because said to have happened ages ago). Shantae being F5 (a 'disappointing' small character etc) and then a real big shot (either doom or someone) being revealed to make the main playerbase feel better and hyped. I know it sounds stupid, but even without the "more DLC" announcement, I feel like they were going to make at least one post pass anyway. Nintendo loves doing their "one more thing"s. And with how things have been going, I feel like the concept still holds some weight.

Not sure what the one theory is or why we need F5 first to know, but I'd wanted to bring up an old thought that keeps jumping back into my mind. Especially since SS comes out soon with the design it has. I knew, because of the issues with PC vs HGH in making a moveset, it would be based off of a new game, which would be stylized cute, but also a bit better proportioned, like Pit etc. And that's how stuff has been lining up so far.

 

[ChadTR]

I still don't think I'd consider Terry a big name though.
Heard SNK was at the verge of bankruptcy...

That's irrelevant. They went bankrupt once already in 2000-2001, and it was an earthquake in the video game industry back then

Not completely unrelated, but I encourage people to check out a little game called Faselei! (mecha tactical RPG/strategy mix) which was released in late 1999 on Neo Geo Pocket and suffered from nearly the exact Shantae syndrome: limited number of copies available, a console which died basically the day after the game was released (because of SNK's bankruptcy), and unwavering critical support. Unfortunately, contrary to Shantae, it didn't manage to spawn enough cult status (copies of the game are still selling high on auction sites though) and any franchise resurrection. It's a shame because it's a really well-done little game.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

You're all worried about big names when Sakurai just said popularity isnt the only thing that matters? Or how we have Wii Fit Trainer and Duck Hunt in? Because those are relevant now. And Geno still has a cult following. And Ridly and Krool kept forging ahead, biding their time to get their characters.

Exactly.

So why are we randomly losing hope again? :/

 

[Dukefire]

Things happen. That and more theories popping up every now and then.

Mostly, due to fans being more hungry for smash news for obvious reasons ranging to mild to possible stepping out of bounds.

Spoiler: Image

Remember that all of us are on train, so official news will affect the entire ride.

 

[SoupCanMafia]

According to the guys who made WarioWare DIY, Matt Bozon is a part of the "Big Names"

With all the talk about how Shantae is "a small name", remember that the guys doing WarioWare don't think so.
That and Sakurai has already stated that it doesn't matter if a name is big: if he likes it, he'll go through Hell to get it. What's to say that the same rule applied to Shantae, though by the time he was made aware of her, it was too late for being in as a part of the default state? It'll be about waiting for the time to come, and to hype with responsibility. Otherwise, we're more or less just headless chickens mucking around.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Not his theory but mine is finding it interesting Shantae and Risky are the only two spirits from her series. Shovel Knight has him, shield knight, plague knight, king knight and specter knight as spirits in Ultimate that would've made up a good chunk of his spirit board if he was DLC. Meanwhile no Bolo, Sky or Rotty? It wouldn't have been that hard to look them up and drag a JPEG image over. Even if this wasn't intentional, they have an opportunity now where they can put them in a spirit board along with Mimic, the Barons, the Pirate Master, etc..

I think the same here. I also thought it was mighty suspicious they left out Rotty, Sky, and Bolo especially when Shovel Knight got 5 or 6 Spirits and Shantae was left with only two herself and Risky. I find it odd even though it probably doesn't mean anything.

 

[Deleted member]

Not his theory but mine is finding it interesting Shantae and Risky are the only two spirits from her series. Shovel Knight has him, shield knight, plague knight, king knight and specter knight as spirits in Ultimate that would've made up a good chunk of his spirit board if he was DLC. Meanwhile no Bolo, Sky or Rotty? It wouldn't have been that hard to look them up and drag a JPEG image over. Even if this wasn't intentional, they have an opportunity now where they can put them in a spirit board along with Mimic, the Barons, the Pirate Master, etc..

I believe that the reason we got spirits of Plague, Specter and King Knight may be the fact they are the main playable characters of their own campaigns in Shovel Knight.

I feel Yatch Club and the Smash team decided to give spirits to the main characters of each campaign+ Shield Knight for plot-related reasons.

I could be wrong doh, since nothing is 100% guaranteed.

 

[meleebrawler]

I believe that the reason we got spirits of Plague, Specter and King Knight may be the fact they are the main playable characters of their own campaigns in Shovel Knight.

I feel Yatch Club and the Smash team decided to give spirits to the main characters of each campaign+ Shield Knight for plot-related reasons.

I could be wrong doh, since nothing is 100% guaranteed.

True, but Sky, Bolo and Rottytops are the stars of a campaign as well.

Judging by Brawlhalla's crossover, they might have put in Black Knight as well, if it weren't for the fact there's already a different Black Knight in Nintendo pantheon.

 

[MeteoRain]

What are the odds that we can get the full Wayforward suite of tracks and spirits instead of just Shantae, like with SNK? There was certainly no shortage of Fatal Fury material alone...

If this happens, I fully expect a Patty Wagon Mii Gunner. Well, almost fully, I'm not sure how keen CERO is with leotard-ish designs.

 

[meleebrawler]

If this happens, I fully expect a Patty Wagon Mii Gunner. Well, almost fully, I'm not sure how keen CERO is with leotard-ish designs.

I'm not sure if the current Mii build could really pull off that look well, though.

 

[MeteoRain]

I'm not sure if the current Mii build could really pull off that look well, though.

True, but there have been worse atrocities in the anthro department...

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

My YouTube feed keeps giving me videos that say "Dante and Vergil are the 5th character".
What's that all about?