Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

Do you think shantae can make it?

  • Yes, as a fighter

  • Yes, as a assist trophy

  • No, not as a assist trophy

  • No, not at all


Results are only viewable after voting.
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
9,732
Location
Somewhere in the West.
They probably just didn't want to make art-themed battles multiple times for Kirby.

And there's another weird representation case with Rathalos, who gets to be a boss and assist, a whole area dedicated to him in World of Light and two songs (a spirit and icon are just formalities at this point). Might not mean much more for him specifcally, but it's still an awful lot of content for a non-Nintendo series without a fighter...



With a very, very explicit disclaimer in the credits.
And yet they had no problem making multiple battles for FE ladies by using Lucina and occasionally Robin. Because double-standards.

Very good point on Rathalos though, but then again no one blinks an eye because people aren't so much interested in characters, but the main draw of MH; the setting and monsters.

I know, my point was that Smash wasn't the only place the two parties agreed to allow the character to be used.

As for why he wasn't in the remake, I imagine that's because at the time of the original, Square didn't think to much of Geno as a commodity.

However between than and the remake, they saw the kind of demand there was for him by Nintendo fans and figured they could require more from Nintendo to use him, and the team behind the remake just decided he want important enough to make it worth what Square was now asking for.

Complete speculation on my part, but it makes sense.
In any case, he doesn't seem to be ably used willy-nilly, even the sports Mario games made by SE don't have him, yet FF characters do show up in those.
 
Last edited:

MrMcNuts

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Messages
162
>an indie character that barely has much representation getting an online icon
>an oversight

View attachment 197363

So, this is an oversight and character spirit absences like Sylux + most MP hunters, Professor Hector and the Pro Wrestling cast aren't?

It seems bleeding weird to me how Shantae has an icon despite having less stuff than Shovel Knight. Explain this tomfoolery.



QUOTE]
I meant that it's an oversight that Rayman didn't get an online icon
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
9,732
Location
Somewhere in the West.
Okay, this doesn't make sense to me.

How would Ubisoft, the company that makes a pretty big deal about working/collaborating with Nintendo , allow the Smash staff to put in spirits of Rayman and Rabbid characters, and somehow not be informed or made aware of the possibility of him having an online icon? Do they just assume that word of mouth is enough to let people know of Rayman content in Smash and call it a day? Did they run out of space for online icons?

5b2.gif


Also, how much longer until someone calls this thread out for going off-topic, when it's actually not a big deal?
 
Last edited:

MrMcNuts

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Messages
162
Okay, this doesn't make sense to me.

How would Ubisoft, the company that makes a pretty big deal about working/collaborating with Nintendo , allow the Smash staff to put in spirits of Rayman and Rabbid characters, and somehow not be informed or made aware of the possibility of him having an online icon? Do they just assume that word of mouth is enough to let people know of Rayman content in Smash and call it a day? Did they run out of space for online icons?

View attachment 197377

Also, how much longer until someone calls this thread out for going off-topic, when it's actually not a big deal?
I think they negotiate the rights for a spirit and then it's up to sakurai or the team to put then in as player icons too which I'm thinking they simply forgot to do with Rayman. Or if you're hinting it means something more, maybe they have him planned as a fighter and those will be his icons but that's quite a stretch (as much as I'd like it to be true lol)
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
9,732
Location
Somewhere in the West.
I think they negotiate the rights for a spirit and then it's up to sakurai or the team to put then in as player icons too which I'm thinking they simply forgot to do with Rayman. Or if you're hinting it means something more, maybe they have him planned as a fighter and those will be his icons but that's quite a stretch (as much as I'd like it to be true lol)
Lord knows they must have forgot a lot of things, we just don't know how many, like how many spirit absences are deliberate absences or not.

Though they definitely forgot that Ice Climber has artwork for spirits, right on the box.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
670
I don't know. It doesn't help that WF won't (or rather can't) say anything on the subject until the DLC period ends, whenever that happens.
I'm hoping WF has more plans and announcements after they are done helping with Bloodstained Ritual of the Night.

Also, more info from Matt Bozon since he does hold rights to shantae with wayforward since he's the creator.
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
6,145
Location
Canada, Quebec
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
NNID
meleebrawler
I don't know. It doesn't help that WF won't (or rather can't) say anything on the subject until the DLC period ends, whenever that happens.
Pretty sure no dev or company has ever hinted their character would be in Smash. Not Konami with Snake or the Belmonts, not Sega with Sonic, Capcom with Megaman and the shotos nor Platinum with Bayonetta. The only time answers are given is to say "no".

And yet they had no problem making multiple battles for FE ladies by using Lucina and occasionally Robin. Because double-standards.

Very good point on Rathalos though, but then again no one blinks an eye because people aren't so much interested in characters, but the main draw of MH; the setting and monsters.
That's the thing, a lot of people would like to get a Monster Hunter fighter (human or felyne) as that would also mean a setting and several monsters to go with it in the form of a stage (and maybe a bunch of monster spirits). By the way, did you know that some DLC in 4 Ultimate and Generations games basically had spirit battles of their own for tie-ins? Yian Garuga playing the role of Ridley is just one example. Imagine flipping those scripts.

At least those FE women have different stats and traits to work with. What can you really do with Adeleine and Paint Roller except use Vincent twice with a fighter? Elline has the ball gimmick of Rainbow Curse to work with...

I'm a Shantae fan! I just finished playing the last game I hadn't, Risky's Revenge, so I made this concept of Shantae's Smash moveset..
First of all, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one in favour of transformations implented in moves for the most part. This is very close to what I envisioned.

But if I could make some suggestions...

The main thing is a way to implement both the Pirate Gear and Shantae's magic: just replace the pike ball down special with a dance move that alters the properties of some moves. I know the pike ball is a Shantae mainstay, but the way you have it now there's just no reason not to have it on at all times, and I'd rather not have something like that on a character.

By default she would be human for all moves except her spider grabs (we'll get to how those are affected by dancing later). I'd move the elbow charge to her fsmash, with her normal dash attack being the scimitar charge. Up smash would be a blast of Storm Puff lightning and down smash would be a quick rotation of Pike Balls. Neutral aerial would be either the spinning after a flip kick or the hair twirl without the elbow charge, forward aerial is hair whipping, back aerial is a simple kick, up aerial is an upward drill kick and down aerial is the scimitar plunge. And up special is up to three cannon blasts. She only has one air jump normally.

You said yourself you wished to use monkey form more. Well, by activating the monkey dance with my down special (it uses a radial menu like Monado Arts to choose between monkey, elephant, spider and harpy dances), you gain the ability to turn into it by dashing, making Shantae much faster, smaller but also lighter like you say and changing her dash attack to Monkey Bullet. Maybe even have the ability to jump much higher and farther if you do it while dashing, although you'd still use human aerials.

Elephant is simple: it gives the elephant smashes you mentioned, but also changes down aerial to an elephant plunge to replace the scimitar, and maybe a full elephant dash as her dash attack.

Spider gives a buff to her grab game, both in the range and potency of her throws (it also goes from the form in the original game to the Half-Genie Hero version). Fthrow and dthrow are both like you say, but with additional poison damage on the former when buffed. Bthrow slams the enemy back and forth while webbed up (think Pod Slamabam from Star Allies), and uthrow has her slash the enemy up with one of her forelegs much like Bonelegs does. Additionally, her zair gains the ability to perform an air grab when buffed, tossing the webbed enemy downwards with a circular motion. I don't see the point of giving this form added weight when you're invincible during throws anyway. Maybe the elephant could use it more, in addition to the armour.

Harpy gives her multiple jumps as you've described, but she still uses human aerials until you use her new up special, full-on Harpy flight limited by a timer that needs some time to refresh after landing, like Olimar's Winged Pikmin. Only here does she get her powerful harpy aerials to chase with.

Hope this helps!
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
9,732
Location
Somewhere in the West.
Pretty sure no dev or company has ever hinted their character would be in Smash. Not Konami with Snake or the Belmonts, not Sega with Sonic, Capcom with Megaman and the shotos nor Platinum with Bayonetta. The only time answers are given is to say "no".



That's the thing, a lot of people would like to get a Monster Hunter fighter (human or felyne) as that would also mean a setting and several monsters to go with it in the form of a stage (and maybe a bunch of monster spirits). By the way, did you know that some DLC in 4 Ultimate and Generations games basically had spirit battles of their own for tie-ins? Yian Garuga playing the role of Ridley is just one example. Imagine flipping those scripts.

At least those FE women have different stats and traits to work with. What can you really do with Adeleine and Paint Roller except use Vincent twice with a fighter? Elline has the ball gimmick of Rainbow Curse to work with…
Third parties lately are quick to say if a character won't be in, or imply that they aren't in. Travis won't get in, Master Chief won't get in, and Dante probably isn't in (even though Kamiya hasn't been with Capcom for over a decade). Heck, Yacht Club showed enthusiasm over SK's AT appearance. However, WF hasn't said a single peep about Shantae. It's weird that they won't say anything about a spirit that helps to plug for their games.

There's also the Inkling boy and girl, especially since they have a roller attack. Besides, not all spirit battles use a gimmick that makes sense anyway (Ninten's has you fight 4 Nesses, while the rest of the Mother 1 fights are overall more faithful).
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
6,145
Location
Canada, Quebec
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
NNID
meleebrawler
Third parties lately are quick to say if a character won't be in, or imply that they aren't in. Travis won't get in, Master Chief won't get in, and Dante probably isn't in (even though Kamiya hasn't been with Capcom for over a decade). Heck, Yacht Club showed enthusiasm over SK's AT appearance. However, WF hasn't said a single peep about Shantae. It's weird that they won't say anything about a spirit that helps to plug for their games.

There's also the Inkling boy and girl, especially since they have a roller attack. Besides, not all spirit battles use a gimmick that makes sense anyway (Ninten's has you fight 4 Nesses, while the rest of the Mother 1 fights are overall more faithful).
As I recall they did in fact tweet about her appearance as a spirit, before the whole DLC stunt they pulled. Something along the lines of "way to go" or "we did it". Of course, that call to arms was a signal to fans not to let up on the demand for a playable appearance, so they probably haven't received hard deconfirmation from Nintendo yet. Perhaps the latter is currently on the fence and wants to see if this demand is the real deal or just a flavour of the month. Either way Nintendo's eye has been on anything Shantae related; they feel their audience really likes her games.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
9,732
Location
Somewhere in the West.
As I recall they did in fact tweet about her appearance as a spirit, before the whole DLC stunt they pulled. Something along the lines of "way to go" or "we did it". Of course, that call to arms was a signal to fans not to let up on the demand for a playable appearance, so they probably haven't received hard deconfirmation from Nintendo yet. Perhaps the latter is currently on the fence and wants to see if this demand is the real deal or just a flavour of the month. Either way Nintendo's eye has been on anything Shantae related; they feel their audience really likes her games.
I see, that seems to be a subtle way to not break NDA, yet still inform the fans enough to not stop requesting her.

Hopefully this eventually amounts to something, I recently heard that the Switch may have a seven-year cycle:
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...n_year_life_cycle_sales_to_grow_in_third_year
 
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
5,724
Location
Land of Oz
NNID
bne9635
Switch FC
SW 6259 3694 6593
Why hasnt WF simply said she aint in Smash like so many others?
Because she technically is in Smash...

In seriousness, I don’t know. Other companies haven’t reconfirmed anyone recently either (Rare in particular is silent despite being badgered. That’s just one example)
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
9,732
Location
Somewhere in the West.
Because she technically is in Smash...

In seriousness, I don’t know. Other companies haven’t reconfirmed anyone recently either (Rare in particular is silent despite being badgered. That’s just one example)
In regards to Ubisoft, I figure that ever since Rayman showed up as a trophy in 4, they don't need to make such a big deal whenever he gets more minor Smash appearances.
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
6,145
Location
Canada, Quebec
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
NNID
meleebrawler
I seriously want Nintendo do fund the next Shantae game and have them put in Amiibo costume functionality.
They don't need an excuse to provide incentive for loyal customers to buy promising new third party and/or multi-platform games. You don't need to buy Star Fox figures to get Star Fox content in the Switch version of Starlink, physical or not.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
580
Location
13th Hierarchical City of Kagutsuchi
They don't need an excuse to provide incentive for loyal customers to buy promising new third party and/or multi-platform games. You don't need to buy Star Fox figures to get Star Fox content in the Switch version of Starlink, physical or not.
I'm a collector, so I dont mind the excuse to buy extra things for games I like. But then again, I'm a minority, so what makes me happy, piss off others.
 

MrMcNuts

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Messages
162
People weren't talking much about Rayman in Smash until Artsy Omni. I think a lot of the fanbase was still a little miffed at Ubisoft at the time of the ballot for 1) Taking away Rayman Legends exclusivity and for also telling Nintendo fans it was their fault they weren't getting all their big games because they wouldn't buy all the buggy and broken ports ubi made for the Wii U.

Really aside from the die hard fans, other Nintendo gamers didn't seem to think to much about Rayman getting in at the time.

As for Rayman not getting a fighter tag, I don't thing anything like that would be "an Oversight" If he was meant to and they simply forgot to, it could be considered as rude, which Nintendo is very careful about when working with partner companies.

I really just think the Smash team doesn't think too much about Rayman. I mean, the trophies in Smash 4 were only there because Ubisoft gave them the full renders in hopes of them getting included.
Idk how I missed this but nah sakurai even said in a miiverse post that they asked ubisoft for drawing references for Rayman and then they sent them the trophies. And he also was popular enough on the ballot to get a spirit representation. I won't argue whether he was more popular or not but it's ludicrous to say he's not one of the third parties on the smash teams mind. Not saying shantae isn't either but Rayman for sure is
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
9,732
Location
Somewhere in the West.
Haven't seen it yet on my end, you guys get to see everything.

Anyway, first Twitter, now YouTube, I think it's obvious that we're getting closer and closer to Joker's release date when the ads are getting this intrusive. The last time I've seen this amount of ad-pushing was when they showed the Ultimate ads three times during the VGAs, and that prepped things up for Joker's reveal.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
670
Haven't seen it yet on my end, you guys get to see everything.

Anyway, first Twitter, now YouTube, I think it's obvious that we're getting closer and closer to Joker's release date when the ads are getting this intrusive. The last time I've seen this amount of ad-pushing was when they showed the Ultimate ads three times during the VGAs, and that prepped things up for Joker's reveal.
I was lucky to see it once.

Here is the video for the short ad.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
9,732
Location
Somewhere in the West.
So, any opinions on this following issue?

I don't know what they can and can't do, but what I do know is if rumors are true, it's gonna be bad news for DLC having a Wave 2.

Mainly in stage builder. I enjoy the mode as much as the next guy, but it will lower Wave 2's odds a lot. So the reason we have quite a bit of hope for Wave 2 happening is that when factoring in the 5 DLC stages onto the Stage Select Screen, we still have a space left for a button. If that button turns out to be a stage builder, that means its likely not provisions for wave 2, making the situation worse off for anyone hoping for Wave 2.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
6,145
Location
Canada, Quebec
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
NNID
meleebrawler
So, any opinions on this following issue?
Anyone forget stages being on multiple pages since Brawl? Or how DLC stages had their own page in Smash 4? Or how DLC characters on 3DS got their own page after space ran out on the main page? This is reaching. Plus custom stages have always had a page all to themselves, because how is a tiny drop-down menu suppose to convey what the stage is?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Messages
628
I wouldn't worry about the stage screen. That can always change, resized, or given a second page... Or whatever needs to happen really. Further since Wave 2 is hypothetical, it doesn't have to be the same as wave 1. They could decide they want to add more fighters but don't want to bother with stages (would be a bummer, but still something that could happen)

Long and short of it, the stage select screen limit doesn't really mean anything at the moment as anything could be changed to accommodate any desired outcome.
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
9,732
Location
Somewhere in the West.
Anyone forget stages being on multiple pages since Brawl? Or how DLC stages had their own page in Smash 4? Or how DLC characters on 3DS got their own page after space ran out on the main page? This is reaching. Plus custom stages have always had a page all to themselves, because how is a tiny drop-down menu suppose to convey what the stage is?
People forget things every day in this fandom, sadly enough. It's enough of a hassle as it is to remind people that there's 29 ID slots, not 30, and that they're not necessarily for characters.

Then again, plenty of people want any reason to go Chicken Little mode these days.

I wouldn't worry about the stage screen. That can always change, resized, or given a second page... Or whatever needs to happen really. Further since Wave 2 is hypothetical, it doesn't have to be the same as wave 1. They could decide they want to add more fighters but don't want to bother with stages (would be a bummer, but still something that could happen)

Long and short of it, the stage select screen limit doesn't really mean anything at the moment as anything could be changed to accommodate any desired outcome.
Yeah, even if more stages don't come, they can always have characters come with small or no extra doodads. DLC in this case is specifically tailored so they can cram in extra stuff due to the compromised dev cycle, otherwise why else is the gift feature even there? I just want Pac-Maze and Woolly World to come back, is that so much to ask for?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
6,145
Location
Canada, Quebec
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
NNID
meleebrawler
People forget things every day in this fandom, sadly enough. It's enough of a hassle as it is to remind people that there's 29 ID slots, not 30, and that they're not necessarily for characters.

Then again, plenty of people want any reason to go Chicken Little mode these days.



Yeah, even if more stages don't come, they can always have characters come with small or no extra doodads. DLC in this case is specifically tailored so they can cram in extra stuff due to the compromised dev cycle, otherwise why else is the gift feature even there? I just want Pac-Maze and Woolly World to come back, is that so much to ask for?
Actually forgetting, or deliberately ignoring on the grounds of past games being somehow completely irrelevant? You be the judge. I know I've heard that in the playable spirit debate regarding trophies. You can maybe argue the menus are designed to look "complete" with initial DLC in mind, but it hasn't stopped them from designing 3DS and Wii U stage selects the way they did.
 

Biometal

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
196
Well....hey, there are still people who refuse to accept that Assist Trophies deconfirm characters (only if their particular character is one) because it "hasn't been stated if they do for Ultimate".
Spirits are one thing; and we never got a concrete, official, specific yes or no for if they deconfirm. AT's murder the chances of a character being playable, and have since Brawl. If Sakurai wants to go insane and make them playable would be a different story.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 18, 2018
Messages
510
Well....hey, there are still people who refuse to accept that Assist Trophies deconfirm characters (only if their particular character is one) because it "hasn't been stated if they do for Ultimate".
Spirits are one thing; and we never got a concrete, official, specific yes or no for if they deconfirm. AT's murder the chances of a character being playable, and have since Brawl. If Sakurai wants to go insane and make them playable would be a different story.
This. We don't actually know for sure if spirits deconfirm fighters. I would rather people not assume that they do or don't, and instead just remember that there isn't really any concrete yes or no on the matter.
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2018
Messages
628
This. We don't actually know for sure if spirits deconfirm fighters. I would rather people not assume that they do or don't, and instead just remember that there isn't really any concrete yes or no on the matter.
Yeah. If anything there is precedence to assume they don't deconfirm since 1) many fighters have spirits of their self already and 2) spirits are this games version of trophies and we have seen trophies upgraded with Mewtwo and Lucas last time.

That said, I would say AT's getting upgraded "could happen" as in, it's physically possible. I just really wouldn't count on it since it would essentially be the team working hard on something and then removing it to replace it with something else they worked on later.

Like, the only way I could see them upgrading the assist trophy in the same game is if there was something they could easily replace the assist with.

Like say they made Knuckles a fighter and instead of removing his assist, they just replace it with Mighty the armadillo (just an example, not saying I think it had a chance if happening)

Then at least it wouldn't be like they were undoing any of their work, the it would still be kind of round-a-bout and not super efficient
 
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
9,732
Location
Somewhere in the West.
Yeah, spirits aren't any different from trophies. It's just another case of people forgetting past trends in previous games (deliberately or not? You be the judge).

Yeah. If anything there is precedence to assume they don't deconfirm since 1) many fighters have spirits of their self already and 2) spirits are this games version of trophies and we have seen trophies upgraded with Mewtwo and Lucas last time.

That said, I would say AT's getting upgraded "could happen" as in, it's physically possible. I just really wouldn't count on it since it would essentially be the team working hard on something and then removing it to replace it with something else they worked on later.

Like, the only way I could see them upgrading the assist trophy in the same game is if there was something they could easily replace the assist with.

Like say they made Knuckles a fighter and instead of removing his assist, they just replace it with Mighty the armadillo (just an example, not saying I think it had a chance if happening)

Then at least it wouldn't be like they were undoing any of their work, the it would still be kind of round-a-bout and not super efficient
You hit the nail on the head. The only exception I think they'd be willing to make would be for Waluigi, but even then he would still need an original moveset.

I could still see them use Knuckles as a base for some of the other noteworthy Sonic characters, so who knows.
 

Biometal

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
196
Like, the only way I could see them upgrading the assist trophy in the same game is if there was something they could easily replace the assist with.
Which would cause people to hold a knife to Sakurai's neck, forcing him to do it for all ATs, including the ones that were cut since Brawl, and then still want the replacement ATs playable, and then still want those ATs playable, and then still want those ATs playable, and then still want those ATs playable, and then still want those ATs playable, and then the universe would collapse into itself, and then they'd want Collapsed Universe to be a new stage.
 
Top