Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Kirbeh]

Well, there's a number of reasons to pick her...

Smash has a lack of female protagonists.
She has a longer history with Nintendo.
She has more personality than Shovel Knight.
She'd be a unique fighter.
Smash would be her fighting game debut.

Just naming a few.

- Subjective.
- True.
- I agree, but technically subjective as some find more charm in silent protags. I also wouldn't say SK has none, he's got his own charm just in the way he animates.
- So would a ton of other characters including SK had he been chosen.
- That'd be true, but I don't see how that would be the reason for her or any character to get picked.

Shantae is still my most wanted character, indie or otherwise, just playing a bit of devil's advocate.

If anything her strongest points would be her history with Nintendo and the longevity of her franchise/fanbase along with it's steady growth over the years which has only increased her relevance and prominence as time goes on. Not just as an indie but as a series in general Shantae's stood the test of time and, even if niche, is still a beloved character which is what I think matters most.

EDIT: should probably have also noted that this is also a partial response to Connorb0t2 who's post was in regards to SK hence why I make the comparison.

 

[Wademan94]

Speaking of this I did imagine how some of my wanted characters would’ve met their fate at this scene, and I wanted to share:

-I already mentioned that I’d see Shantae flying away in her Harpy form to no avail, but I could also see Banjo-Kazooie trying to fly away as well with feathers just flying out of them as if the player was spamming the flight button.

-Marx I see trying to use his laser to fight again the beams, but it’d provide no resistance and you could briefly hear his ungodly scream as he’s captured.

-Poor Rayman would have his limbs captured one by one saving his head for last.

-Cynthia would be flying on Garchomp with her other two Pokémon out to dodge and fight against the beams, but realizing their futile efforts and she’s surrounded, she makes a split second decision to return her Pokémon and toss her Pokéballs out of the line of Fire while she gets captured. Two of her Pokémon get caught regardless, but they miss the Pokéball containing Garchomp. Kirby would encounter it in the overworld and Garchomp would be necessary to acquire Cynthia.

-Geno would try to use Geno Whirl which would take several light beams to stop it. Realizing the odds, Geno’s spirit retreats from his puppet body as the body gets captured. Kirby would also encounter ♡♪!? in the overworld and it would also be required to fight Geno.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I will say with talks of a pokemon rep as DLC... please let it be a Grass type. We've got two fully evolved fire types and one fully evolved water type, and yet my favourite starter type hasn't got its day yet ;~;
(Yeah there's Ivysaur and Squirtle, but they're not fully evolved or anything )

Looks like my leafy forest lizard has taken people over once again
Also this is something that’s been bugging me: Pichu has a team aqua cap, and Kyogre’s assist consistently has shown up since brawl, yet Groudon was cut in smash 4. Anyone else think team magma has been completely ignored?

 

[Wademan94]

Looks like my leafy forest lizard has taken people over once again
Also this is something that’s been bugging me: Pichu has a team aqua cap, and Kyogre’s assist consistently has shown up since brawl, yet Groudon was cut in smash 4. Anyone else think team magma has been completely ignored?

...he said with a Typhlosion avatar

Also, I sure hope not. Maxie’s the best!

Spoiler

Look at that sexy Ultra Beast of a man!

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Maxie’s the best!

@Maxie sure is great!

She's lovely to talk to.

 

[conTAgi0n]

I was only semi-serious with my comment that Sakurai didn't get any choice with the DLC. I do kind of fear that that wasn't so far off from the truth, but at risk of sounding like a broken record, we don't really know. Nintendo could have given him 50 characters and told him to pick 5, or they could have given him 5 characters and told him, if any of these absolutely can't work explain to us why, and we'll give you a replacement choice.

I suspect it was closer to the latter, but it's all conjecture. Again, my comment was intended to be lighthearted.

 

[Deleted member]

If shantae would be the indie rep she has two indies to compete over

>quote
>commandervideo
>sans (JK)

 

[Wademan94]

@Maxie sure is great!

She's lovely to talk to.

 

[EarlTamm]

...he said with a Typhlosion avatar

Also, I sure hope not. Maxie’s the best!

Spoiler

View attachment 176529
Look at that sexy Ultra Beast of a man!

*cough*Courtney*Cough*

Spoiler

 

[meleebrawler]

I was only semi-serious with my comment that Sakurai didn't get any choice with the DLC. I do kind of fear that that wasn't so far off from the truth, but at risk of sounding like a broken record, we don't really know. Nintendo could have given him 50 characters and told him to pick 5, or they could have given him 5 characters and told him, if any of these absolutely can't work explain to us why, and we'll give you a replacement choice.

I suspect it was closer to the latter, but it's all conjecture. Again, my comment was intended to be lighthearted.

Regardless of what you or anyone else thinks of Nintendo and what they think of indies... that doesn't change the fact that they, or at the very least Sakurai, were moved to get Shantae in the base game in any way possible... actually, if they really didn't want to do anything more with her, chances are she would have been an assist. This priority is something that the supposed Square Enix rep (that isn't Geno) or the games they apparently want to market can't boast.

 

[Deleted member]

Somebody help this poor soul she’s being bullied
https://mobile.twitter.com/OctoVeemo20




Kinda salty too btw

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Thanks a bunch...

*cough*Courtney*Cough*

Spoiler

Oh, she looks nice!

Which Pokemon game is she from?

 

[Teeb147]

Regardless of what you or anyone else thinks of Nintendo and what they think of indies... that doesn't change the fact that they, or at the very least Sakurai, were moved to get Shantae in the base game in any way possible... actually, if they really didn't want to do anything more with her, chances are she would have been an assist. This priority is something that the supposed Square Enix rep (that isn't Geno) or the games they apparently want to market can't boast.

The ballot is what made it possible to have an appearance. We dont know if there's anything more. An assist trophy is more than 'just' a spirit.
Not being an assist trophy is only an advantage in terms of it being open. It may be that a spirit is the most nintendo was willing to give her.
I thought you knew that.

 

[Freelance Spy]

Somebody help this poor soul she’s being bullied
https://mobile.twitter.com/OctoVeemo20




Kinda salty too btw

Bullied where? I'm not finding anything like that. Then again im garbage at twitter...

 

[Kirbeh]

I know some take issue with Connorb0t2's posts sometimes (along with Hollywood and probably one more I'm forgetting since I'm not on very often), but can we at least try to not antagonize each other and exacerbate the issue? Same goes for ragging on other franchises/fanbases like SK and MC. For all the complaints of others treating Shantae fans poorly, some here are just as guilty of doing the same. It's hypocritical and petty.

 

[Wwlink55]

I was only semi-serious with my comment that Sakurai didn't get any choice with the DLC. I do kind of fear that that wasn't so far off from the truth, but at risk of sounding like a broken record, we don't really know. Nintendo could have given him 50 characters and told him to pick 5, or they could have given him 5 characters and told him, if any of these absolutely can't work explain to us why, and we'll give you a replacement choice.

I suspect it was closer to the latter, but it's all conjecture. Again, my comment was intended to be lighthearted.

If I recall correctly, it was more so "Nintendo gave him a list of characters he could use, and it was up to him to decide who would be most viable and fitting for the game".

 

[Deleted member]

She's kind of been harassing Nintendo of America, so no. I expect you believe that is acceptable behaviour, knowing you (which I unfortunately do, and I really wish I didn't).

Edit: And Sega... and Apple.

Well the nso is acting crapy and so is Splatoon 2 servers so some people have their opinions you know:/

Bullied where? I'm not finding anything like that. Then again im garbage at twitter...

Check the comments you’ll see

Also one of them is an anti shantae user

 

[conTAgi0n]

Regardless of what you or anyone else thinks of Nintendo and what they think of indies... that doesn't change the fact that they, or at the very least Sakurai, were moved to get Shantae in the base game in any way possible... actually, if they really didn't want to do anything more with her, chances are she would have been an assist. This priority is something that the supposed Square Enix rep (that isn't Geno) or the games they apparently want to market can't boast.

I could definitely see Nintendo wanting Shantae as a DLC character for a variety of reasons. With Nintendo things could always go either way - sometimes they make great decisions, sometimes they make super terrible or super corporate decisions.

 

[Teeb147]

If I recall correctly, it was more so "Nintendo gave him a list of characters he could use, and it was up to him to decide who would be most viable and fitting for the game".

That's not true though, that's just a random person saying that. Look at sakurai's tweet again.

 

[Wwlink55]

That's not true though, that's just a random person saying that. Look at sakurai's tweet again.

hmm.... Okay, it does seem inaccurate. However, it does seem like it was a back-and-forth, not just entirely Nintendo. He does specifically say that he was able to decide if a kit could be made.

 

[Teeb147]

hmm.... Okay, it does seem inaccurate. However, it does seem like it was a back-and-forth, not just entirely Nintendo. He does specifically say that he was able to decide if a kit could be made.

Sakurai's tweet:
"Super Smash Bros. Ultimate’s DLC line-up is now complete. This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan. "

I bolded the important words.
It was made ENTIRELY by nintendo. There's no leeway, 'entirely' means it was only nintendo selecting.
And his part is deciding if he CAN make the fighter based on what they selected, not if he wants to, or thinks it's good. It's nintendo's choice, and he just makes sure it's realizable.

To me his tweet was pretty clear-cut, and I think he intended to send that message so that people would know what was going on for dlc.
(And his other message says something too)

 

[Deleted member]

I could definitely see Nintendo wanting Shantae as a DLC character for a variety of reasons. With Nintendo things could always go either way - sometimes they make great decisions, sometimes they make super terrible or super corporate decisions.

I can already think of one thing Nintendo did Terribly wrong.....

 

[Deleted member]

@Maxie sure is great!

She's lovely to talk to.

Aww! How very nice of you!

 

[meleebrawler]

The ballot is what made it possible to have an appearance. We dont know if there's anything more. An assist trophy is more than 'just' a spirit.
Not being an assist trophy is only an advantage in terms of it being open. It may be that a spirit is the most nintendo was willing to give her.
I thought you knew that.

See, it's one thing to have spirits of first-party franchises, or third-party ones represented by playable characters. It's another to have third-party ones NOT represented by playable characters, like Rayman. Why go through the effort of jumping through legal hoops if you really aren't going to do anything more than have a 3D model or picture of them? I feel as though they would have liked to see them playable, were it not for extenuating circumstances (deadlines, poor Wii U sales and, admittedly, more pressing inclusions).

Popular assists are a different matter, where the demand is very clearly recognized, but Sakurai was simply unable to come up with a full, compelling moveset for them, so he compromises with a way to see them in action without having to fully balance them and such. Still doesn't fully rule them out if he has time to brainstorm down the line.

Nothing good ever comes of worrying too much about the possibility of things not happening or bad things that could. Consider them enough to have something to fall back on if they do, but if those thoughts are causing more distress than they should, maybe it's best if you just take a step back and clear your mind, think of the good things that have happened, stuff like that.

 

[Wwlink55]

Sakurai's tweet:
"Super Smash Bros. Ultimate’s DLC line-up is now complete. This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan. "

I bolded the important words.
It was made ENTIRELY by nintendo. There's no leeway, 'entirely' means it was only nintendo selecting.
And his part is deciding if he CAN make the fighter based on what they selected, not if he wants to, or thinks it's good. It's nintendo's choice, and he just makes sure it's realizable.

To me his tweet was pretty clear-cut, and I think he intended to send that message so that people would know what was going on for dlc.
(And his other message says something too)

Thats what I said. Even if Nintendo thought of the characters, Sakurai is still able to determine their viability.

 

[conTAgi0n]

If I recall correctly, it was more so "Nintendo gave him a list of characters he could use, and it was up to him to decide who would be most viable and fitting for the game".

Here is his original tweet:

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate’s DLC line-up is now complete. This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan.

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) November 6, 2018

The relevant lines: "This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan."

That is all we know. Based on that statement it could be that Nintendo gives Sakurai a large list of characters to choose from, or it could be that Nintendo names five characters that they want and Sakurai can veto those selections that he doesn't think he can make work. Everything beyond what you see there is just speculation though.

EDIT: 'd

 

[Teeb147]

See, it's one thing to have spirits of first-party franchises, or third-party ones represented by playable characters. It's another to have third-party ones NOT represented by playable characters, like Rayman. Why go through the effort of jumping through legal hoops if you really aren't going to do anything more than have a 3D model or picture of them? I feel as though they would have liked to see them playable, were it not for extenuating circumstances (deadlines, poor Wii U sales and, admittedly, more pressing inclusions).

Popular assists are a different matter, where the demand is very clearly recognized, but Sakurai was simply unable to come up with a full, compelling moveset for them, so he compromises with a way to see them in action without having to fully balance them and such. Still doesn't fully rule them out if he has time to brainstorm down the line.

Nothing good ever comes of worrying too much about the possibility of things not happening or bad things that could. Consider them enough to have something to fall back on if they do, but if those thoughts are causing more distress than they should, maybe it's best if you just take a step back and clear your mind, think of the good things that have happened, stuff like that.

I dont really understand how you think development works.
Many were assists not because he couldnt come up with compelling movesets, he's good for that, and some wouldnt be overly hard..
They have a set amount of time and resources. They most likely gauged how many characters they could make, and then gave fan service for the other characters that were high enough on the ballot. Going through legal hoops is another department's job, for the most part, so it's not like it takes much time away from development, especially if he wants 'some' presence for fan demanded characters.

Also, right now I'm very calm. I'm helping to bring a realistic side here for now. It's good to hope for a character, but that doesnt mean denying what's more obvious or likely. She always has a small chance so long as she isn't deconfirmed, but lots points to that she's pretty unlikely to be in the first wave of dlc.

Thats what I said. Even if Nintendo thought of the characters, Sakurai is still able to determine their viability.

Alright. well you seemed to think he has more say than he says he does this time though. Anyway, it really sounds like he didn't have much say, form the way he worded it.

 

[Wademan94]

*cough*Courtney*Cough*

Spoiler

I mean you’re not wrong, but still...

Spoiler: Team Maxie all the way!!

Thanks a bunch...

Anytime little buddy!

 

[Mario9919]

If I recall correctly, it was more so "Nintendo gave him a list of characters he could use, and it was up to him to decide who would be most viable and fitting for the game".

I think Shantae would fit in Smash. Maybe Sakurai thinks the same thing but we'll have to see.

 

[Teeb147]

Shantae would be great for smash, and if she's cartoony, which I hope she'd be, it'd be nice to see. I mean, lots of characters are cartoony, but Toon Link might not feel that much of an extreme.

 

[meleebrawler]

Here is his original tweet:

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate’s DLC line-up is now complete. This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan.

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) November 6, 2018

The relevant lines: "This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan."

That is all we know. Based on that statement it could be that Nintendo gives Sakurai a large list of characters to choose from, or it could be that Nintendo names five characters that they want and Sakurai can veto those selections that he doesn't think he can make work. Everything beyond what you see there is just speculation though.

Yeah, so... basically we know nothing more about the picks except that they're currently locked for this wave. No reason to start seriously worrying or celebrating either way.

I dont really understand how you think development works.
Many were assists not because he couldnt come up with compelling movesets, he's good for that, and some wouldnt be overly hard..
They have a set amount of time and resources. They most likely gauged how many characters they could make, and then gave fan service for the other characters that were high enough on the ballot. Going through legal hoops is another department's job, for the most part, so it's not like it takes much time away from development, especially if he wants 'some' presence for fan demanded characters.

Also, right now I'm very calm. I'm helping to bring a realistic side here for now. It's good to hope for a character, but that doesnt mean denying what's more obvious or likely. She always has a small chance so long as she isn't deconfirmed, but lots points to that she's pretty unlikely to be in the first wave of dlc.



Alright. well you seemed to think he has more say than he says he does this time though. Anyway, it really sounds like he didn't have much say, form the way he worded it.

About assists... that's kind of what I just said, at least for the fan-demanded ones. Given unlimited time & resources, maybe he could come up with full movesets for each and every one, but of course that isn't the case. And it probably isn't always the case that he can't think of a full one at all, but rather it struggles to really bring anything new to the table (clones asisde).

Honestly, nothing we're saying about development could be realistic at all. I understand what you're trying to do, but I just fail to see the purpose in regularly coming up with reasons why she won't get in, unless others are getting unreasonable in assuming she will, which I haven't seen happen here. No one is making any allusions that she's a shoo-in or has no reason to not be in, it's kind of the whole point of support, to try and beat the odds. But unless someone starts going around saying that Shantae is totally going to get in without any hard evidence, I don't see why the negative points need to be brought up. It just causes friction. I brought up points relating to how Shantae is important enough to Nintendo that she got in Ultimate base game, but I was also aware that there could still be things standing in her way to be playable.

 

[Teeb147]

Yeah, so... basically we know nothing more about the picks except that they're currently locked for this wave. No reason to start seriously worrying or celebrating either way.



About assists... that's kind of what I just said, at least for the fan-demanded ones. Given unlimited time & resources, maybe he could come up with full movesets for each and every one, but of course that isn't the case. And it probably isn't always the case that he can't think of a full one at all, but rather it struggles to really bring anything new to the table (clones asisde).

Honestly, nothing we're saying about development could be realistic at all. I just fail to see the purpose in regularly coming up with reasons why she won't get in, unless others are getting unreasonable in assuming she will, which I haven't seen happen here. No one is making any allusions that she's a shoo-in or has no reason to not be in, it's kind of the whole point of support, to try and beat the odds. But unless someone starts going around saying that Shantae is totally going to get in without any hard evidence, I don't see why the negative points need to be brought up. It just causes friction. I brought up points relating to how Shantae is important enough to Nintendo that she got in Ultimate base game, but I was also aware that there could still be things standing in her way to be playable.

Sometimes there's plenty of info to get general directions of things. Doesn't mean it's conclusive. (but most things aren't)
I want to stay hopeful, and let others cheer on, but that doesnt mean believing things that aren't realistic (tho everyone's free to do what they want)
The nda stuff with WF, and the timing of this lowers her chances by so much, I'm not sure how people can think she has much chance for this first bunch of dlc.

 

[Deleted member]

Will she ever her mum again?

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Anytime little buddy!

Yeah, you can make feel dejected, whenever you want...

Shantae would be great for smash, and if she's cartoony, which I hope she'd be, it'd be nice to see. I mean, lots of characters are cartoony, but Toon Link might not feel that much of an extreme.

I would really like characters such as Tetra and Medli to be playable, because of how much I love the Toon Link art style, and how well it fits in with Smash.

So, I'd say Shantae would fit in brilliantly, in terms of her design (Rottytops, even more so ). Cartoony aesthetics always mesh well with Smash, in my opinion.

 

[meleebrawler]

Sometimes there's plenty of info to get general directions of things. Doesn't mean it's conclusive. (but most things aren't)
I want to stay hopeful, and let others cheer on, but that doesnt mean believing things that aren't realistic (tho everyone's free to do what they want)
The nda stuff with WF, and the timing of this lowers her chances by so much, I'm not sure how people can think she has much chance for this first bunch of dlc.

I only have two questions for you at this point: do you want to increase Shantae's chances? And if so, how does stating the things that lower them without anything to counterbalance contribute to that?

 

[Teeb147]

I only have two questions for you at this point: do you want to increase Shantae's chances? And if so, how does stating the things that lower them without anything to counterbalance contribute to that?

The reality is what it is, nothing we do can increase her chances (except for future years). I dont know what you mean. We can look at other sides to see if something reveals something different, but I think we have enough info from what's happened to have a pretty good idea of things.

We can cheer and hope, and be supporters, without having to believe things that would make people laugh at us for denying the obvious.
She still has a chance regardless, especially if there's more seasons. There' threads that have it much worse, and they're realistic but still look at everything that can help the chances. We can keep doing that, and be open to new info too. But we still have to face the music up to now.

 

[EarlTamm]

Oh, she looks nice!

Which Pokemon game is she from?

She is from Ruby and Sapphire and is one of team Magma's admins. The design I specifically put up was her redesign for OR and AS. Interesting fact about her, in the Pokemon Adventures series she had a thing for the protagonist of the manga, Ruby, and tried to get him to join Team Magma. And in the remakes, she pretty much became a Yandere and gets some eye brow raising lines towards the player and Maxie.

I mean you’re not wrong, but still...

Spoiler: Team Maxie all the way!!

undefined

Okay, and here me out on this... how about both?

Spoiler

 

[Shadowknight1]

Well, I hope that if she can't make it into Smash that WayForward at least attempts to let her into one of the other indie fighting games. I'm not sure which one is a good fit honestly though.

 

[Wademan94]

Yeah, you can make feel dejected, whenever you want...

Woah-wait, you’re not serious are you?

I’m sorry dude, I didn’t think you’d take it personally, I was just playing up the joke. Sorry if I made you upset. You okay?

Okay, and here me out on this... how about both?

Spoiler

I’m perfectly okay with that.

 

[meleebrawler]

The reality is what it is, nothing we do can increase her chances (except for future years). I dont know what you mean. We can look at other sides to see if something reveals something different, but I think we have enough info from what's happened to have a pretty good idea of things.

We can cheer and hope, and be supporters, without having to believe things that would make people laugh at us for denying the obvious.
She still has a chance regardless, especially if there's more seasons. There' threads that have it much worse, and they're realistic but still look at everything that can help the chances. We can keep doing that, and be open to new info too. But we still have to face the music up to now.

I don't want to see the vicious cycle of support dying down just because short-term chances are low, thus further hurting the chances down the line and then hurting support even more etc. Just be careful about where and when you decide to spread your "realism", and remember: balance is everything.