Shantae, the Half Genie Protector of Scuttle Town! (A Switch To A New WayForward)

[Kirbeh]

I have seen some people at least losing some hope in Shantae, because Nintendo chose the candidates.
And they think Nintendo will only choose DLC-candidates based on games they want to promote.

I mean, I could see that being the case for one of the characters, but all of them? I guess it is a possibility but I don't think they'll do it for all 5, and just because a character is partly meant as promotion doesn't necessarily mean it can't also be a character people have been clamoring for. If Banjo & Kazooie is part of a possible N64 mini for example they could technically be chosen as both a fan favorite and as a promotional character.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Come on! You could’ve gone much more creative than that! Something like massive damage output or massive combo potential! I’d be all for either though, especially Terra.

There's also Yuffie, I guess.

 

[Deleted member]

Would Nintendo chosse an indie rep?

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

I mean, I could see that being the case for one of the characters, but all of them? I guess it is a possibility but I don't think they'll do it for all 5, and just because a character is partly meant as promotion doesn't necessarily mean it can't also be a character people have been clamoring for. If Banjo & Kazooie is part of a possible N64 mini for example they could technically be chosen as both a fan favorite and as a promotional character.

Exactly.
And in Shantae's case, she could work as promotion for Nindies, given her status there.

I'd say characters like Octolings could work as well, if they're made semi-clones and not Echoes.
In fact, Octolings are still possible in my eyes, if they are used to represent Splatoon 2, given that Inklings and all the Splatoon-related content we have in Smash thus far, is only based on the first game.
So if we change the weapons Octolings use (Splat Dualies instead of Splattershot, Autobombs instead of Splat Bombs, Splatbrella instead of Splat Roller) and give them some more fine differences in their moveset, they can definitely work.

But I am getting sidetracked here...

Either way, Shantae's chances are still strong.
So don't throw in the towel just yet...

 

[zferolie]

So...

Why is everybody thinking, just because Nintendo chose candidates for DLC, that we can only expect Fire Emblem and Pokemon?

I think people are expecting a FE and Pokemon, but I honestly think we will only get an FE. Pokemon is going to be WAY too new for sakurai to make a good moveset for. with FE he has months past its release, but pokemon its going to be barely 2,

Come on! You could’ve gone much more creative than that! Something like massive damage output or massive combo potential! I’d be all for either though, especially Terra.

I was mostly kidding. I life Yuffie better anyway

Exactly.
And in Shantae's case, she could work as promotion for Nindies, given her status there.

I'd say characters like Octolings could work as well, if they're made semi-clones and not Echoes.
In fact, Octolings are still possible in my eyes, if they are used to represent Splatoon 2, given that Inklings and all the Splatoon-related content we have in Smash thus far, is only based on the first game.
So if we change the weapons Octolings use (Splat Dualies instead of Splattershot, Autobombs instead of Splat Bombs, Splatbrella instead of Splat Roller) and give them some more fine differences in their moveset, they can definitely work.

But I am getting sidetracked here...

Either way, Shantae's chances are still strong.
So don't throw in the towel just yet...

Yes, Shantae could be choosen by nintendo to promote Nindies, and show the world Nintendo is standing behind indie creators. That is a strong reason for nintendo to want her in

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Would Nintendo chosse an indie rep?
View attachment 176468

I mean, would the mods take action if you repost an image, in the same thread THRICE (probably more times, now that I think about it)? Yes they would.

 

[Wademan94]

Personally I think if they do go with a DLC Pokémon rep, I believe Nintendo should put aside their promotional ways and move on to bigger, better and well, BLONDER things if you catch my drift.



No, I’m not desperate, what’re you talking about?! How dare you make such baseless accusations!

 

[NukeA6]

Edelgard, she’s one of the main characters from the upcoming FE game Three Houses, she’s in a new class called Aristocrat which uses axes, swords, and magic. Like Shantae, she’s also voiced by Cristina Vee.

She's no Camilla but I accept Edelgard with open arms. Much better than Bandana Dee (even if that's not a hard thing to do).

 

[zferolie]

Personally I think if they do go with a DLC Pokémon rep, I believe Nintendo should put aside their promotional ways and move on to bigger, better and well, BLONDER things if you catch my drift.



No, I’m not desperate, what’re you talking about?! How dare you make such baseless accusations!

In a perfect world she would be in

 

[Wademan94]

She's no Camilla but I accept Edelgard with open arms. Much better than Bandana Dee (even if that's not a hard thing do).

Well, speaking of tracts of land. Unfortunately I think Camilla probably wouldn’t make it in unless hers were heavily nerfed.

Also I’ve personally warmed up to the idea of Marx for a Kirby rep myself.

 

[conTAgi0n]

Wow those tweets from Sakurai. There is a lot to take away from those.

First, this obviously means that campaigning for now isn't going to do any good for this round of DLC at least. The fact that Sakurai outright says, "please don't give us feedback unless we specifically ask for it", makes it clear that they aren't listening right now, and frankly he's tired of hearing about what characters we want.

Second, I'm now pretty sure this means that Shantae is not among the five DLC characters. The timing is the issue here. Matt Bozon was tweeting about supporting Shantae as Smash DLC just days ago, suggesting that he's not under NDA. If Sakurai is taking to Twitter to tell us that the DLC characters are already decided, they probably have been decided for at least a little while now. So the characters were probably decided by the time Matt tweeted, and it's very unlikely that Matt would have tweeted that if Shantae were among them. Also, expect Matt to stop tweeting or re-tweeting stuff about Shantae for DLC now, because it would be in very poor taste for him to do so after Sakurai asked people to stop, especially after receiving a nice cameo like that in Smash. One tinfoil hat theory is that Shantae is in and yet Nintendo asked - or Matt suggested and they agreed - that Matt could make a tweet like that despite her being in, since it would almost be too suspicious if he stayed silent about it. I think that's very unlikely though.

Finally, Sakurai went out of his way to make it clear that all the characters were chosen by Nintendo, not him. The tweet has a pre-emptively defensive vibe, plus he said in his Direct only to buy the Fighters Pass if you are reeeeeaally confident about it. This combination of things suggests to me that Sakurai foresees a lot of backlash to the DLC characters that Nintendo has chosen. This does not leave me optimistic at all about what we're going to get for DLC characters this time around. Don't expect any fan favorites. Do expect Steve.

So yeah I guess those tweets do not put me in a positive place. I think we should brace ourselves for some very disappointing, almost insulting, DLC characters.

Having to tread into Nintendo's territory with no map to travel safely does give a potential danger of running into the salt mine if the one we are looking for isn't the one.

Until then, lets wait patiently while having good SPIRITS towards the Game's Release in 31 DAYS

ARTIST: DFKJR
View attachment 176316

I love this comic so much, their dopey in-denial grins are amazing.

 

[NukeA6]

Oh speaking of tracts of land, unfortunately I think Camilla probably wouldn’t make it in unless hers were heavily nerfed.

Also I’ve personally warmed up to the idea of Marx for a Kirby rep myself.

Camilla isn't going to make it at all unless Sakurai is adding Mii costumes to DLC packs. I can still dream of it.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Camilla isn't going to make it at all unless Sakurai is adding Mii costumes to DLC packs. I can still dream of it.

I mean, there's Rex, kind of, maybe?

 

[EarlTamm]

In a perfect world she would be in

And our world is flawed as heck, so her odds are not looking good.

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Wow those tweets from Sakurai. There is a lot to take away from those.

First, this obviously means that campaigning for now isn't going to do any good for this round of DLC at least. The fact that Sakurai outright says, "please don't give us feedback unless we specifically ask for it", makes it clear that they aren't listening right now, and frankly he's tired of hearing about what characters we want.

Second, I'm now pretty sure this means that Shantae is not among the five DLC characters. The timing is the issue here. Matt Bozon was tweeting about supporting Shantae as Smash DLC just days ago, suggesting that he's not under NDA. If Sakurai is taking to Twitter to tell us that the DLC characters are already decided, they probably have been decided for at least a little while now. So the characters were probably decided by the time Matt tweeted, and it's very unlikely that Matt would have tweeted that if Shantae were among them. Also, expect Matt to stop tweeting or re-tweeting stuff about Shantae for DLC now, because it would be in very poor taste for him to do so after Sakurai asked people to stop, especially after receiving a nice cameo like that in Smash. One tinfoil hat theory is that Shantae is in and yet Nintendo asked - or Matt suggested and they agreed - that Matt could make a tweet like that despite her being in, since it would almost be too suspicious if he stayed silent about it. I think that's very unlikely though.

Finally, Sakurai went out of his way to make it clear that all the characters were chosen by Nintendo, not him. The tweet has a pre-emptively defensive vibe, plus he said in his Direct only to buy the Fighters Pass if you are reeeeeaally confident about it. This combination of things suggests to me that Sakurai foresees a lot of backlash to the DLC characters that Nintendo has chosen. This does not leave me optimistic at all about what we're going to get for DLC characters this time around. Don't expect any fan favorites. Do expect Steve.

So yeah I guess those tweets do not put me in a positive place. I think we should brace ourselves for some very disappointing, almost insulting, DLC characters.



I love this comic so much, their dopey in-denial grins are amazing.

Since you've apparently missed it, here it is again....

This tweet makes it clear that it's not over for Shantae yet https://twitter.com/Unit__NineS/status/1060013828744900608?s=09

 

[Dyllybirdy]

And our world is flawed as heck, so her odds are not looking good.

To make everything perfect, I'd suggest removing exactly half of the population of the universe from existence.

 

[meleebrawler]

Wow those tweets from Sakurai. There is a lot to take away from those.

First, this obviously means that campaigning for now isn't going to do any good for this round of DLC at least. The fact that Sakurai outright says, "please don't give us feedback unless we specifically ask for it", makes it clear that they aren't listening right now, and frankly he's tired of hearing about what characters we want.

Second, I'm now pretty sure this means that Shantae is not among the five DLC characters. The timing is the issue here. Matt Bozon was tweeting about supporting Shantae as Smash DLC just days ago, suggesting that he's not under NDA. If Sakurai is taking to Twitter to tell us that the DLC characters are already decided, they probably have been decided for at least a little while now. So the characters were probably decided by the time Matt tweeted, and it's very unlikely that Matt would have tweeted that if Shantae were among them. Also, expect Matt to stop tweeting or re-tweeting stuff about Shantae for DLC now, because it would be in very poor taste for him to do so after Sakurai asked people to stop, especially after receiving a nice cameo like that in Smash. One tinfoil hat theory is that Shantae is in and yet Nintendo asked - or Matt suggested and they agreed - that Matt could make a tweet like that despite her being in, since it would almost be too suspicious if he stayed silent about it. I think that's very unlikely though.

Finally, Sakurai went out of his way to make it clear that all the characters were chosen by Nintendo, not him. The tweet has a pre-emptively defensive vibe, plus he said in his Direct only to buy the Fighters Pass if you are reeeeeaally confident about it. This combination of things suggests to me that Sakurai foresees a lot of backlash to the DLC characters that Nintendo has chosen. This does not leave me optimistic at all about what we're going to get for DLC characters this time around. Don't expect any fan favorites. Do expect Steve.

So yeah I guess those tweets do not put me in a positive place. I think we should brace ourselves for some very disappointing, almost insulting, DLC characters.



I love this comic so much, their dopey in-denial grins are amazing.

You really think Sakurai is trying to play the blame game with Nintendo?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

It would really suck if we get Minecraft's Steve over both Banjo & Kazooie and Shantae. It's just a fan rule at the moment, but he's a indie character and a Microsoft character, he could very well being taking both Banjo & Kazooie and Shantae's spots with just his inclusion alone. I pray that isn't the case.

 

[M00NFIRE94]

Well, speaking of tracts of land. Unfortunately I think Camilla probably wouldn’t make it in unless hers were heavily nerfed.

Also I’ve personally warmed up to the idea of Marx for a Kirby rep myself.

Camilla isn't going to make it at all unless Sakurai is adding Mii costumes to DLC packs. I can still dream of it.

I'll believe Camilla can't be added as soon as they stop giving certain blondes skin tight suits that don't leave room for the imagination.

 

[Wademan94]

Camilla isn't going to make it at all unless Sakurai is adding Mii costumes to DLC packs. I can still dream of it.

I still think the idea of a heavy-hitting axe and magic wielding female character has potential.

I'll believe Camilla can't be added as soon as they stop giving certain blondes skin tight suits that don't leave room for the imagination.

I mean Tharja was cut as a trophy for similar reasons so make of that what you will.

It would really suck if we get Minecraft's Steve over both Banjo & Kazooie and Shantae. It's just a fan rule at the moment, but he's a indie character and a Microsoft character, he could very well being taking both Banjo & Kazooie and Shantae's spots with just his inclusion alone. I pray that isn't the case.

Err...wouldn’t being owned by a major company like Microsoft mean he’s no longer an indie character?

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Err...wouldn’t being owned by a major company like Microsoft mean he’s no longer an indie character?

You might be right.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey aren’t Nintendo and Ubisoft buddy buddies right now?

 

[Paragon-Yoshi]

Err...wouldn’t being owned by a major company like Microsoft mean he’s no longer an indie character?

I mean, if he even an official character to begin with?

I thought the Minecraft-characters were just your average customizable avatar-characters...

 

[Wademan94]

Hey aren’t Nintendo and Ubisoft buddy buddies right now?

That’s why Rayman’s on my list as well.

 

[Kirbeh]

While Minecraft isn't technically an indie anymore, it's origins and importance as an indie game shouldn't be discounted either.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Huh, it seems @Connorb0t2 is becoming more active here again, meaning I will have to become less active in this thread. :/

Marvellous...

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Hey aren’t Nintendo and Ubisoft buddy buddies right now?

Yep, Nintendo allowed Ubisoft to make that cross over game with Mario and the Rabbids. We could be getting Rayman our the Rabbids. I hope it's the first instead of the latter.

 

[conTAgi0n]

Since you've apparently missed it, here it is again....

Thanks for sharing this again! I actually did see this though. I don't mind addressing it specifically.

First, he points out that Sakurai's tweet says, "Ultimate's DLC lineup is now complete", and argues that this really means the DLC lineup has only just been finalized. I think this is stretching quite a bit. The reason Sakurai told us that the lineup is now complete was to make it clear that there is no point to begging for certain characters, because it is already decided. It does not necessarily mean that the lineup was only just finalized. It is compatible with his tweet to suppose that the lineup has been finalized for weeks or even months. Even if Sakurai grabbed his English translator and made him write those tweets the very instant that the lineup became final, that would mean that Matt Bozon was making his Shantae for Smash DLC tweets while negotiations were still ongoing. I doubt he would do that.

His second point is that Nintendo choosing the characters doesn't mean there won't be third parties. That is true.

Finally, he reads Sakurai's tweet as suggesting that Nintendo gave him a decent list of characters to choose five from, and Sakurai had creative freedom within that list. Really, we don't know either way, but I didn't interpret Sakurai's tweet that way at all. The way I read it, it sounded more like Nintendo told him which five characters they want, and unless Sakurai could give them a compelling reason why those characters wouldn't work for Smash, it wasn't up for negotiation. Considering Sakurai could make basically anything work as a Smash Bros character, it would have been hard for him to argue that any of Nintendo's requests were impossible to fill.

As is always the case with this sort of thing, nothing is certain. There is still a real possibility that Shantae is among the DLC characters. As I explained, the main thing about the tweet that makes me less than hopeful is really the timing. I just don't think Matt would have been making tweets like that if WayForward and Nintendo were even discussing the possibility of Shantae DLC.

Based on my reading though, things aren't looking so good.

EDIT: Here is the tweet I am addressing, since the link isn't captured in the quoted reply above: https://twitter.com/Unit__NineS/status/1060013828744900608?s=09

You really think Sakurai is trying to play the blame game with Nintendo?

Honestly yes, if you want to put it that way. More accurately, it seems like Sakurai is trying to publicly wash his hands of responsibility. Frankly I found it very surprising that he actually came out and said, "Nintendo chose the characters, not me". Isn't it a little unusual that he would specify who chose the characters? That isn't even related to the main point of his tweet, which was just that the characters are already selected so there's no point in asking about it anymore. As I said, I get the decided impression that Sakurai does not think the DLC characters are going to be what fans are hoping for, and being rather sensitive to fan feedback, he wanted to make it as clear as he could within his professional obligations that these were not the choices he would have made.

 

[Deleted member]

Yep, Nintendo allowed Ubisoft to make that cross over game with Mario and the Rabbids. We could be getting Rayman our the Rabbids. I hope it's the first instead of the latter.

A rabbid is a spirit and there is no sign of rayman so they choose wisely who to pick

 

[Wademan94]

Yep, Nintendo allowed Ubisoft to make that cross over game with Mario and the Rabbids. We could be getting Rayman our the Rabbids. I hope it's the first instead of the latter.

Considering how he plays in Origins/Legends, it’s like he was built to be in Smash.

Huh, it seems @Connorb0t2 is becoming more active here again, meaning I will have to become less active in this thread. :/

Marvellous...

Just ignore him Dylly, don’t let him get to you.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

Just ignore him Dylly, don’t let him get to you.

That'd only work for me, if you did the same too, which you probably won't ever do...

 

[TheCJBrine]

"Steve? stole Shantae's slot because indies."

I don't think they choose characters based on genre y'all.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

"Steve? stole Shantae's slot because indies."

I don't think they choose characters based on genre y'all.

I know that, but if Steve got in, I think it would decrease Shantae's chances a tiny bit.

 

[Deleted member]

Just ignore him Dylly, don’t let him get to you.

But I’m not I’m just standing right here and looking at light beam memes

 

[TheCJBrine]

I know that, but if Steve got in, I think it would decrease Shantae's chances a tiny bit.

Just like every other 3rd-party that may get in, I don't see why Steve gets the blame.

 

[conTAgi0n]

By the way I vote that we call the new genre of Spirit Shantae x Samus fan art "Genie Suit Samus".

Incidentally I posted my favorite example of that fan art over on Reddit and so far it's receiving quite a positive reception: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9v0e8p/genie_suit_samus_spirit_shantae_fanart/. That subreddit can turn pretty anti-Shantae sometimes, so it's nice to see some positivity towards her there for a change.

 

[Hyfiner]

I know that, but if Steve got in, I think it would decrease Shantae's chances a tiny bit.

To be fair if Steve were to get in it means that he would have to be one of the characters on Nintendo's choice list and Sakurai would have to select him from that list.

While Sakurai has shown interest in Minecraft before we don't know his stance on Minecraft in Smash so there's still a lot of what if's in his inclusion.

 

[Wademan94]

That'd only work for me, if you did the same too, which you probably won't ever do...

I can’t promise anything, (mainly cause I’m not always checking who I reply to all the time, if I see a comment I want to comment on, I’ll do it regardless who it is) but to my credit, I’ve been pretty much ignoring his negative posts this whole time and trying not to feed into that behavior.

By the way I vote that we call the new genre of Spirit Shantae x Samus fan art "Genie Suit Samus".

That sounds more like Samus is the one possessing Shantae.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

By the way I vote that we call the new genre of Spirit Shantae x Samus fan art "Genie Suit Samus".

Incidentally I posted my favorite example of that fan art over on Reddit and so far it's receiving quite a positive reception: https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/9v0e8p/genie_suit_samus_spirit_shantae_fanart/. That subreddit can turn pretty anti-Shantae sometimes, so it's nice to see some positivity towards her there for a change.

It's probably because it has somebody else in the fan art. If it was just Shantae alone, they would probably bash it our dislike it.

 

[Teeb147]

Since you've apparently missed it, here it is again....

Thanks for sharing this again! I actually did see this though. I don't mind addressing it specifically.

First, he points out that Sakurai's tweet says, "Ultimate's DLC lineup is now complete", and argues that this really means the DLC lineup has only just been finalized. I think this is stretching quite a bit. The reason Sakurai told us that the lineup is now complete was to make it clear that there is no point to begging for certain characters, because it is already decided. It does not necessarily mean that the lineup was only just finalized. It is compatible with his tweet to suppose that the lineup has been finalized for weeks or even months. Even if Sakurai grabbed his English translator and made him write those tweets the very instant that the lineup became final, that would mean that Matt Bozon was making his Shantae for Smash DLC tweets while negotiations were still ongoing. I doubt he would do that.

His second point is that Nintendo choosing the characters doesn't mean there won't be third parties. That is true.

Finally, he reads Sakurai's tweet as suggesting that Nintendo gave him a decent list of characters to choose five from, and Sakurai had creative freedom within that list. Really, we don't know either way, but I didn't interpret Sakurai's tweet that way at all. The way I read it, it sounded more like Nintendo told him which five characters they want, and unless Sakurai could give them a compelling reason why those characters wouldn't work for Smash, it wasn't up for negotiation. Considering Sakurai could make basically anything work as a Smash Bros character, it would have been hard for him to argue that any of Nintendo's requests were impossible to fill.

As is always the case with this sort of thing, nothing is certain. There is still a real possibility that Shantae is among the DLC characters. As I explained, the main thing about the tweet that makes me less than hopeful is really the timing. I just don't think Matt would have been making tweets like that if WayForward and Nintendo were even discussing the possibility of Shantae DLC.

Based on my reading though, things aren't looking so good.


Honestly yes, if you want to put it that way. More accurately, it seems like Sakurai is trying to publicly wash his hands of responsibility. Frankly I found it very surprising that he actually came out and said, "Nintendo chose the characters, not me". Isn't it a little unusual that he would specify who chose the characters? That isn't even related to the main point of his tweet, which was just that the characters are already selected so there's no point in asking about it anymore. As I said, I get the decided impression that Sakurai does not think the DLC characters are going to be what fans are hoping for, and being rather sensitive to fan feedback, he wanted to make it as clear as he could within his professional obligations that these were not the choices he would have made.

I wasn't sure whether to bring up what was said here again, and I don't think it's 'over', or anything, and on one hand, I dont want to crush people's hopes, and even I still hope, even if I think it's now unlikely, but I just don't think anyone can deny that the timing of this makes Shantae's chances for season 1 of DLC very low.

The NDA stopped when the spirit was revealed, and now that Nintendo's finalized who they're putting in, and WayForward is still vocal, it's very likely that Shantae was not negotiated and put in a contract to be playable. Else there would be another NDA (or continuation of the one that was there).

I'm still open to that it's 'possible', and I will not stop supporting shantae, it doesn't stop that.