I think maybe you should elaborate, because there's a hell of a lot more than differing opinions on sexual intercourse at stake here.
What mario-man said.
Do you honestly think that the rift between men and women would be as big as it is now if society didn't specifically push men and women into those pre-defined roles? Well, maybe you do, and I could disagree with you for a hundred pages and it wouldn't get us anywhere, so I'll try a slightly different take.
I'm not sure what you mean by "rift," but I have no problem with gender roles. I think they are not only healthy but natural. I'm not sure where you're going with this; so I'll do my best to answer. I'm not saying all women have to stay at home and don't belong in the work place. BUT, there
definitely shouldn't be a push for that, and those that take care of children at home shouldn't be looked down upon. Also, I do think that the more mothers are at work away from their children and instead of a hired sitter watching them, the more likely it is that the kids will be messed up.
You say it's wrong to compare women against male stereotypes. Well, let's say there's a man who happens to not relate to those same stereotypes. He doesn't like sports, he cares about the emotional rather than the physical implications of relationships and sexual intercourse, he would rather stay home and raise a family while his wife has a big career and is the main provider (and is happy to do so), or whatever. Pick any situation you want, I guarantee there are some people in the world who would match it. Would it be fair for him to be compared against male stereotypes? Because that's what happens. Most of his male peers--the ones who do fit into the "normal" gender roles--would mock him, say he was a wimp, say he wasn't a "real man", etc, even though he's perfectly happy with his life. Even though he'd be completely miserable if he lived the kind of life that they all strove for.
Actually, most men wouldn't mock him at all, and in fact, may be a little jealous that he gets to stay at home all day. Therein lies the problem. But, I'm not going to try to argue against some guy you made up. Give me a real person and a real situation, and I'll tell you what I think. Otherwise, what I say can be too easily beat down. I'm not going to fall into that trap.
In any case, I never said everyone has to fit into a gender stereotype. In fact, I believe that is the very
first thing I said before I brought anything up. I said: "I don't endorse stereotypes, but..."
You say that you recognize that there are a lot of exceptions to the general tendencies. Well, the presence of enforced stereotypes in society hurts those people. In fact, that's pretty much the only thing stereotypes do...encourage people to mistreat one another for being on different sides of the walls they create. If you think it's okay for people to go against stereotypes, how can you also say it's okay for society to try to force people indiscriminately into those stereotypes?
When did I say "it's okay for society to try to force people indiscriminately into those stereotypes"??
I'd be a lot more inclined to believe that if it wasn't for the fact that pressure towards gender stereotypes begin from the day of your freaking birth. Baby boys get put in blue overalls and are given toy trucks, baby girls are stuffed in pink dresses and given dolls, everyone gets told stories about the dreaded cooties, and they never get a chance to say "what do I think about all this", because they're given all of these ideas before they can think for themselves.
And yet in spite of all this, some people still turn out different.
OK...I'm not sure what your point there was.
By the way, did it ever occur to you that men and women
are different??
EDIT: Just to make it clear where I stand, I'll explain: I doubt most people around here have ever done ballroom dancing. Well, I do. I've been doing it for a while now. Anyway, that is how I view how the male-female relationship (not friendship) should be. In dancing, the man leads, and the dances (in most cases) are about showing off the lady. I think this fits very well with gender roles in society. And I think gender roles are important (not necessarily how society views they should be, but I won't go into that), just like gender roles are very important in dancing. Without it...well, you really can't dance.
I'm not going to tell women they can only stay at home or men that they are not allowed to do that. I have my opinions on those things, but they aren't important in the broad scheme of what I'm trying to say. For those, though, as I said, I'd have to judge it on a case-by-case basis. I'm not arguing about "breaks in the trends." I will say that without a doubt I believe that men should be the leader in the relationship. I think this is very important, and the relationship really cannot work otherwise. Criticize that if you want, but it doesn't work. Besides, women
want men to take the lead. I'll go back to my dancing thing. It really is hard for women to try to lead; in some of my classes, we were very short on males, and it was quite obvious that the women were struggling to lead. Just looking at the male-female couples, though, it is very important that the man leads. As my (female) dance instructor emphasizes over and over "Be a man." Complain all you want about gender roles and gender stereotyping. My female instructor tells us, "Be a man." That means, show her where to go, lead her, guide her with your left arm and move her with your right arm.
Don't complain to me that gender roles are unfair. Aside from the dancing analogy...Do you know that the best moms are female and the best dads are male? Along with that, boys needs a male role model to learn from, and they look to their fathers. Similarly, girls need a female role model and look to their mothers. It's only natural. It's not being force-fed; it's how it's supposed to be. Boys will naturally look to their fathers to fill this role (and girls to their mothers as well). Anyone who cannot acknowledge this has missed a lot going on around him. Boys without fathers living at home often go off and get into serious trouble in life. This is also why a father has such a strong impact on his son in what he says and does and why a son is so inclined to follow in his father's footsteps (whether he intends to or not).
Lastly, to touch briefly on this whole girl-girl, boy-boy comfortability thing...Obviously in my class it was far easier for girls to dance with one another than the guys. Was this because of how we were raised? Not exactly. Girls are used to touching in their communication; this continues to be the trend even when they're married, etc. I can tell you this: I'm perfectly comfortable in my sexuality and blah blah blah, but for one of our last classes, they had us pair guy-guy just for a sort of fun dance competition thing; well, I was with a very good friend of mine, and everyone around us was doing the same, but I will be honest...it still felt very weird. And it wasn't because of anyone's opinions because everyone else is the one who encouraged us to do it. It's not because of how we were raised; it's because of how (most) males interact with one another vs. how (most) females interact with one another.
I realize there is always an exception to anything, but if we were to avoid the generalizations because of every exception, we really couldn't say anything at all.
, male gamer. Anyone else notice that the cutscenes in FFX always seemed to pan the breasts of either Lulu or Yuna or I think there was some that made a deal of getting Rikku's bum in the shot? It was pathetic.
